The problem with KYS logic

This Is Your Dad·9/3/2018, 5:36:46 AM·13 votes·4,465 views

So the number 1 argument I see on the boards in favor of letting people tell each other to kill themselves is that no one ever does it, and if you do it, you need to seek help. If you are offended by it, you need to grow thicker skin and use logic (the mute button) instead of emotion (the report button) -insert some political garbage here-

So here we go:

Telling someone to kill themselves over a free to play online game usually doesn't get typed in a game you are winning or a game that you are happy being in. It doesn't start and end at that one phrase. And it usually occurs when the person you are targeting is playing poorly or getting beaten. If you are playing to the best of your ability and you get told to kill yourself, your general reaction as a flamer yourself would be either A) Run it down mid or B) start typing worse things than them in chat.

Funnily enough players that recommend the mute button to others as a means to allow them to continue flaming often don't use it themselves; rather, it facilitates an excuse and a shift of blame from the violator to the victim.

So basically the two functions of play following verbal abuse are running it down mid and saying worse things. Running it down mid in response to flame is a weapon people often use to get back at players when just words are not enough to irritate them. It completely ruins the game for all involved and is the common talking point of people who get banned for hate speech. But why is it that statistically flamers tend to have more cases of intentional feeding on their side?

Using this prized logical, non-emotional response, people play around the team. If they don't like the team, they lose the desire to try to win, they can't coordinate and they can't read chat because of all the useless vulgarity getting tossed around. Logically there is no gain in telling someone to kill themselves. It will never help you win. It will only make you feel better.

Instead, calling people fragile snowflakes because of their response to a demoralizing bit of text and telling them they're not in control of their emotions and that makes them weak is actually ironic, because the other argument toxic people use is that the flamer can't control his/her emotional response to flame/bad plays. So, logically we can assert that the flamer is now putting all of the emotional stress and toxicity on the victim in order to cope with his/her inability to control their emotions themselves.

Thicker skin argument:

Yes, growing thick skin is awesome, and being able to ignore flame is super great. BUT, it is still annoying. It's not offending me in the sense that I'm going to go cry in a corner. It's more akin to a fly in my room that I want to swat. In the workplace, the highest level of productivity is seen in places where employees get along and talk to each other. Bullying, berating and criticizing employees leads to lower quality and more accidents, and a higher turnover.

Applying this to a team, it is hard to focus with spam pings and flooded chat, and the incentive to win is literally only the lp. Lp is like cash. I sure as hell won't work a really crappy job full of abuse for petty cash. I'll find a new job. Most people have thicker skin than you think. Most likely if the world's problems seem to fall on you at every step and you're just drowning in the agony of having to deal with people, you might need to grow thicker skin yourself.

The mute button is a tool, yes, to filter chat. But it is not a crutch to be used by people who lack the emotional discipline to talk strategy with their teammates. Pushing the burden onto every other player except yourself for your losses and your punishments is not how you survive in a civilized world. And trust me when I say, an uncivilized world is not one you would want to live in, even if you think being tough is cool.

Sure, hardly anyone ever kills themselves because you tell them to. So logically, why are you asking them to? Stop trying to admit that it's a logical response to bad gameplay, because it isn't.

Thanks for reading, and I'd like to end by saying this isn't just a hate on flamers message. I'm trying to provide reasoning, without including too much emotion, so that maybe you can understand why it's such a big deal.

26 Comments

R107 Games9/3/2018, 6:11:28 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fcVL3c8f,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-03T05:36:46.655+0000) If you are playing to the best of your ability and you get told to kill yourself, your general reaction as a flamer yourself would be either A) Run it down mid

I don't think flamers int just because they get flamed back.

start typing worse things than them in chat.

Ok,and you should mute/ignore them then.

Funnily enough players that recommend the mute button to others as a means to allow them to continue flaming often don't use it themselves

Why would they use the mute button? Mute dosent stop a player from playing badly,making stupid mistakes etc.

So basically the two functions of play following verbal abuse are running it down mid and saying worse things. Running it down mid in response to flame is a weapon people often use to get back at players when just words are not enough to irritate them.

Yet again,I've been playing this game since season 6,and no one ever ints just because they got flamed back,I've never seen that before.

It completely ruins the game for all involved

Your game will not get ruined if you mute.

But why is it that statistically flamers tend to have more cases of intentional feeding on their side?

Becuase inters can flame at the same time?

Using this prized logical, non-emotional response, people play around the team. If they don't like the team, they lose the desire to try to win, they can't coordinate and they can't read chat because of all the useless vulgarity getting tossed around.

If the person is toxic they wouldn't have anything usefull to say anyways.

Logically there is no gain in telling someone to kill themselves. It will never help you win. It will only make you feel better.

Feeling better is gain tho?

Instead, calling people fragile snowflakes because of their response to a demoralizing bit of text

Their not snowflakes for responding,their snowflakes for getting emotional about it.

and telling them they're not in control of their emotions and that makes them weak is actually ironic, because the other argument toxic people use is that the flamer can't control his/her emotional response to flame/bad plays.

Mostly true.

So, logically we can assert that the flamer is now putting all of the emotional stress and toxicity on the victim in order to cope with his/her inability to control their emotions themselves.

All that stress can will go away if you mute or ignored what they said.

Applying this to a team, it is hard to focus with spam pings and flooded chat,

Mute the spam pings and flooded chat.

and the incentive to win is literally only the lp. Lp is like cash. I sure as hell won't work a really crappy job full of abuse for petty cash.

If you can stop that abuse with a press of a button then i sure as hell will work at the job.

mlm olo mlm9/4/2018, 1:14:34 AM2 votes

I think it's hilarious you are letting a pre-teenage kid fuck with your mentals like that. I imagine a little kid walking up to a grown ass adult and calling the adult a name. Then, the adult starts to cry and runs away. Then, the adult chases down a police officer and tells on the little kid.

Growing thicker skin is not for the benefit of the flamer. It is for the benefit of everyone. You benefit from mental fortitude. Your team benefits from your mental fortitude. Getting insulted and playing horrible does not benefit you or your team. That mental fortitude is useful outside of getting flamed as well.

So a fly in your room is annoying you. How you react determines the type of person you will be. You can swat the fly. You can catch the fly and release it outside. You can ignore the fly. You can observe the fly. You can care for the fly. You can torture the fly. You can leave the room. Etc.

That fly is not making you do anything. It is not "burdening" you to use a mute button. Your own intolerance is what is actually "burdening" you to use the mute button.

Zardo9/3/2018, 4:54:47 PM1 votes

I've only said "kys" a few times, but they were never towards anyone playing poorly. It was towards people who were berating their teammates, being racist, trolling their team, and lying about their teammates being toxic in all chat at the same time. Sure, saying that didn't help the situation at all, but having to put up with these kinds of people gets really old.

Kats Pajamas9/3/2018, 6:12:39 PM1 votes

cutting communication from someone toxic is far superior and treating them like a bot. If you said KYS and you're attempting to claim in this thread it's not that bad, you are wrong. It's the Peter Pan("Tinkerbell") rule. If you understand the odds of commiting murder by saying it, then you don't. Ever. It doesn't matter if you are friends, or in a private IRL setting, or anything, it statistically has chance to kill people it's spoken to, so it is not allowed. Around 10% of league players average out to statistical clinical depression, and you have 9 players with you each game. This type of banter isn't allowed in any sport, maybe at the chain court off the highway this is ok, but it's not generally allowed at all period.

OoTotalApexoO9/10/2018, 11:59:52 PM1 votes

It doesn't start and end at that one phrase. And it usually occurs when the person you are targeting is playing poorly or getting beaten. My friend called me bad and to stop playing after a failed gank, light roasting, I wrote it in reply to that. No ill intention. I get it's inexcusable but context/relation to the person matters, in all sense. currently permabanned because of this, I got banned for the "KYS" thing twice, a year apart. never had any other punishment than this

Veralion9/4/2018, 2:04:50 AM1 votes

KYS isn't ok but 14 day for anything short of an actual fucking death threat is retarded. That's way worse and something even I'd never do. Put kys and slurs under 25 game chat restrict or add a punishment tier between that and 14. Riot ruins your entire fucking account for one mistake and I'm sick of being treated like expendable garbage by a company who harrasses its women constantly and has multiple employees spitting pure hatred at the community keeping it afloat.

Telephone Booth9/4/2018, 10:55:52 PM1 votes

Honestly, there are a ton of generalizations and over-simplifications here. I've never told anyone to kill themselves, but this is just philosophical nonsense lol. Bottom line in my opinion, people just dont care. They may not even hate the person they're telling to die... they just dont see "kys" as a big deal, and dont really care if you think its offensive or not. It's such a non-issue to most people. Like it's just so outside their realm of thought to think of it so seriously and on an emotional or logical level. They would scoff at your post and call you a nerd, you know? They just dont give a fuck. Lol I know I'm generalizing and probably over-simplifying too... but just from my experience when i was 15 calling people the NWord on Halo, it was just to make friends laugh. Nothing deeper to it at all.

Phoenixdust9/3/2018, 10:40:54 AM1 votes

I usually flame the trolls in my game and i would never run it down mid. I could not care less if someone flames me back... But even if he starts running down mid, i'm happy so i can report that troll and he will get punished, not like soft inters do. So yeah, im happy to lose an already lost game if the troll gets punished for it.

Flamers flame for the same reason, why anybody curses if they hit their toe in a furniture, you do not have to over think it, it might be not logical for you, but this is how it works.

"So basically the two functions of play following verbal abuse are running it down mid and saying worse things. " - Or the "victim" can just mute and go on his shitty plays.

Actually whatever you do is a logical things for a troll/inter in your team, since Rito does not give any tools for the players to deal with these. If you have an inter in your team you are fucked. You are out of the game, but you will have to spend ~20 minutes in a game, where you cant win, but you will be punished if you leave. You know when ppl are held hostages in their limited free time, that's kind of annoying.