Why League Has Trolls and Ragers (Real Reason)

Artist Bogrim··9 votes·1,625 views

Back in Warcraft 3, the predecessor to League of Legends, bad teammates was never an issue because of two things that were different. First of all, you weren't obliged to stay in the game. You could leave the second you thought victory couldn't be achieved anymore. Secondly, there wasn't anything incentivizing you to work together besides winning the game. Friendly fire was possible, and no report system to ban players for doing so.

To understand what this means, imagine you have a troll on your team. He's angry and he's letting his rage out on you for no good reason. How would you respond? You would literally destroy him. Raze his base to the ground, kill his units and then leave the game. Sounds horrible, but in reality it meant you had to earn your spot on your team. You had to make your allies want to play with you. Because if you identified yourself as a troll, there was nothing forcing your allies to play with you.

This is what's different in League of Legends. Someone begins to troll and throw the game, you are bound by the game's policies to stay for the full duration and you aren't even allowed to leave the game unless you succeed a vote that tends to never go through. League has trolls because Riot shackles their players to them.

And in doing so, they take away that important sense of integrity and replaced it with entitlement. Players come into a game and expect their allies to work with them instead of hoping to prove to their team they are worth the effort. Because they know if their allies aren't cooperative no matter how much you ruin their efforts, the system is blind and will treat any violations as a transgression even if you weren't the offender. The system in fact expects you to keep playing by the rules until the end of the game no matter how many of your allies are sitting in the fountain or running into turrets.

Let me take a break here and say I don't look down on Riot's efforts or their report system. A lot of games go really well. Everything has its pros and cons. No system is flawless. League has become a much bigger game than Warcraft ever was, and it's unlikely the same methods would ever work. The point I would like to reach with this topic is the reason for why trolls happen in League, and how the system could be improved to better combat this sort of behavior.

There have been a lot of suggestions over the years on how to stop players from trolling. Some have suggested a vote kick feature, which would only add bullying to the game. Others have suggested harsher penalties, which would only delegate them on to new players through smurfs. You can't stop trolling. If you could, Riot would have done so already.

As long as you have a system that forces players to stay in the game, there will always be trolls. The definition of a troll is someone who is deliberately provocative for the sake of attention. What I believe could be improved on, is the last part. Attention. If you soften up the rules keeping players bound to the troll's game, the act wouldn't have much of an impact. You'd just move on to the next game and forget about that one guy who gave up.

Surrender at 10. 3 out of 5 to surrender. Or even a feature that can identify trolling and allow the teammates to reset or quit the game without penalty. I sincerely believe any changes of this nature would reduce the impact trolling has on the game.

But what I worry is that Riot values the competitive aspect of their game more than their players. The mentality that every game should be played out fully to give players the best possible chance of winning the game. To not let the system be the reason they lost an otherwise won game. The percentage of games surrendered games could have been won is fairly low and would only increase if you made it easier to stop a game in progress. So this begs the question, what is more important---trying to win as hard as you can or letting players skip bad games more easily?

Let me know your opinion below.

20 Comments

SSJTribe3 votes

I really think a system that shaves a minute off of the surrender vote for each difference in deaths would work. So a game where the score is 10-0 you could surrender by ten minutes. However 10-9 would only cut off one minute, so basically nothing.

I feel it would solve intentional feeding, and those common snowball games where the enemy is clearly ahead but can't quite push your base yet. If you have a troll, or an AFK just die a few times and get the game over with so you can move onto the next one.

IcyPepper3 votes

:/

But a huge problem with that is KDA really isn't everything. There's champions that will get fed in certain match-ups, and certain champions that are going to die a lot early and scale into the late (in theory).

CS is also important, because a huge difference can mean a lot of gold income.

The game is more about which team has more gold when you're talking about power, not which has the most kills. Kills help because they give gold and that dead enemy cannot contribute to the team while inactive, but kills shouldn't define a system in the game that doesn't involve death mechanics (shut-down bounties and the like).

Towers, cs, dragon, baron, and other things are important as well. I could take your system idea more seriously if it didn't make kills seem the most important in consideration.

SSJTribe2 votes

For sure!

It's definitely not perfect, and you're right that objectives are the biggest part of winning a game of League.

The only reason I'd put kills there is that in a game where this would even take effect are likely games with intentional feeders, trolls, etc.

In an actual game where everyone is playing with the intention of winning, you likely aren't going to be down 10-0 at ten minutes anyway. And if the game is even, the surrender vote doesn't really go down much.

I'm sure there's probably a better way, but that's my take on it at least.

IcyPepper3 votes

I believe a few months ago they released a system to help detect intentional feeders and made a big thread about it.

Honestly, they've probably compiled quite a bit of data by now. Maybe they could implement it so if by ten/fifteen minutes the system detects an intentional feeder, the team can choose whether to surrender (and flag the feeder for review, not necessarily a ban if it's a one-time thing and/or complete accident... somehow) or not (if it really was an accident).

SSJTribe2 votes

Yeah that'd be a great take on it. Basically, just let people move on with their lives if they are experiencing a negative game.

IcyPepper4 votes

Yup.

It's one thing if someone's just having a bad game, but honestly there's no coming back if someone starts the game with malicious intentions.

The system already in place should be able to detect the difference between the two.

SSJTribe2 votes

Well I think we just won an award for having a civil discussion on the internet. Have a good evening sir. (Or madam)

IcyPepper2 votes

What started out as a disagreement took a turn for the better.

Yeah, it's nice to have a civil chat every once in awhile. It's no fun being a hot-head :<

Troll Armada2 votes

{quoted}

Yup.

It's one thing if someone's just having a bad game, but honestly there's no coming back if someone starts the game with malicious intentions.

The system already in place should be able to detect the difference between the two.

It's so hard to tell the two apart these days. Literally, when thinking about this objectively, I have no idea how to QUICKLY convey and prove that the game was thrown on purpose to someone who is looking through thousands of reports possibly.

And that has to be part of the solution, because as a company, I know that Riot is not going have people watching actual games, because it simply takes too long.

IcyPepper1 votes
Artist Bogrim2 votes

I'd just like to add here that I thought your suggestion was good; in relation to what Tombdragon said it's important to bear in mind that any change will have both pros and cons. The real question is whether the benefits of that change outweigh the bad side.

It's interesting to note the conflict between your two points though, as Tombdragon's point mostly argues a distrust towards giving players more decision power over the game despite the fact players can just choose not to report and call "open mid." I agree with you obviously and sincerely believe players should have more influence on the system when the game experience turns bad.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

{quoted}

I really think a system that shaves a minute off of the surrender vote for each difference in deaths would work. So a game where the score is 10-0 you could surrender by ten minutes. However 10-9 would only cut off one minute, so basically nothing.

I feel it would solve intentional feeding, and those common snowball games where the enemy is clearly ahead but can't quite push your base yet. If you have a troll, or an AFK just die a few times and get the game over with so you can move onto the next one.

Encourages feeding.

Yamato San2 votes

I just thought this was funny. I posted a similar thread a few minutes before.

Sythriel Draken2 votes

I agree that Leaverbuster is the reason for all the trolls.

Riot basically gives them total control to hijack your game, mainly ranked where their failed mmr system needs work, and you are forced to sit there and hope that they even agree with the surrender. Either that or you are forced to leave the game, where it triggers a leaver buster, and you are forced to sit in a queue before you can play the game. Again, this means the trolls won because they are still griefing you after the games over.

What makes things worse is that these trolls can get around riots punishment system but being very toxic on an alternative account, and if that account gets permabanned, they just hop on another.

Troll Armada2 votes

I think I agree with some of what you are saying, although I'm not convinced as to the conclusions you make.

League has trolls because Riot shackles their players to them...

And in doing so, they take away that important sense of integrity and replaced it with entitlement.

See this is where I'm losing you. I agree that part of the problem is being stuck in these games

(...with someone you know is trolling, has told you they are trolling, and yet you are powerless to do anything which will convince your subconscious that something has been actually done, i.e. immediate gratification. Then, often if a troll is just an early game troll, people on the rest of the team usual forget about anything early game and if you're say adc, you become the villain now, "why did you build shoes fisrt?! why don't you have damage!?" ...but i digress)

...but how does being stuck in these create a sense of entitlement.

Actually, after re-reading, aside from this I agree with most of what you're saying here. **In my view, the ability to surrender is what has led to a lack of integrity, once someone votes to surrender, most of the time you CANNOT expect that player to then play his/her best in good faith. It literally poisons the game for everyone at that point. **

Furthermore, it's my own belief, that pure recreational trolling, is not the what makes up the majority of trolled matches. Many of these trolled games have an agenda, the players are seemingly in a big hurry, on the clock almost to grind through games. That's where I think your premise breaks down.

And although I happy riot does try to do things to support a happy non-toxic community, this "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy in regards to rigging matchmaker and throwing matches only serves to keep most players ignorant as to the fact that they are being scammed by a pre-made group of con artists. Similar to when Google release Microsoft exploits to the public, since it knew Microsoft would never get off of its ass and do something until there was public pressure.

Only thing surrender vote will do is give mmr boosters extra income, since they will now be able to turn around more fake thrown games in less time.

Artist Bogrim1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Armada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fXRjMWEs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-05T07:09:52.612+0000) ...but how does being stuck in these create a sense of entitlement.

You're entitled to a team rather than having to prove you're worth their time. The team is forced to play with you rather than trying to make them want to play with you.

Today I had a player ragequit a game we had a fairly good chance of winning because he was frustrated. And while reading his rage in chat I thought, "How can a person feel so little responsibility towards their team?" In any real life situation, if you acted like that nobody would ever want to play with you---you simply wouldn't get picked on any teams at all. But in this game, in this scenario, all the player has to do to earn a spot on the team is click a button and the system does the rest of the work.

I think it has been a fairly common topic through gaming history. We sacrifice a lot for convenience. The ability to get a random group quick also means people get alienated in the group. They forget they're playing with other people. They forget how to act in a group because it doesn't feel like a real group.

I respect that you don't agree with my solution. But for the sake of discussion, how would you improve the system against trolls?

Troll Armada2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Artist Bogrim,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fXRjMWEs,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-01-05T07:30:39.456+0000)

You're entitled to a team rather than having to prove you're worth their time. The team is forced to play with you rather than trying to make them want to play with you.

Today I had a player ragequit a game we had a fairly good chance of winning because he was frustrated. And while reading his rage in chat I thought, "How can a person feel so little responsibility towards their team?" In any real life situation, if you acted like that nobody would ever want to play with you---you simply wouldn't get picked on any teams at all. But in this game, in this scenario, all the player has to do to earn a spot on the team is click a button and the system does the rest of the work.

I think it has been a fairly common topic through gaming history. We sacrifice a lot for convenience. The ability to get a random group quick also means people get alienated in the group. They forget they're playing with other people. They forget how to act in a group because it doesn't feel like a real group.

I respect that you don't agree with my solution. But for the sake of discussion, how would you improve the system against trolls?

Thank you, and I respect you for even bringing this topic up in these desperate times we play in...

That is such a good question, I need to ponder this for a bit, perhaps sleep on it.

I do like your verbiage though, and feel entitlement does play a role in a lot of both good players which go bad during troll games and succumb to the dark side and end up getting chewed up and spit out by the riot machine, and then I think, ironically enough, there is a sense of entitlement use by the just plain bad people who are just there to troll and/or make a quick buck on the backs of other people suffering.

One of my solutions is that I feel Riot basically tolerating the mmr boosting/champion selling industry has got to end. When I can do innocent searches for gameplay advice and google spits back the majority links to elo boosting companies, that is a problem right there.

As for the individuals in league who are simply ...lost for lack of a better word: I feel like sometimes, people have an expectation that if they don't carry, if they can't cs early, if they don't get first kill, etc, then all is lost and for some reason they have no qualms, about immediately announcing gg to their teammates and calling for surrender. There is no simple solution to a lifetime of being taught at school and society that integrity doesn't matter, it's only cheating if you get caught, you aren't entitled to a quick easy win, and you have to work hard to achieve what you wan t out of life.

There is no sense of obligation to others. People will get upset over using plastic bags and global warming, but when it comes to screwing some total strangers out of their time and energy, I'm not sure how much you can teach this to people. I suppose the only ones you can teach is to show people somehow, that yes, they are ruining five other people's game through their selfish short sighted behavior.

Sorry for the rant, but just had a premade who did the old AFK and rig the vote maneuver.

alasarcher2 votes

About warcraft part. Remember one thing. Every game was CUSTOM GAME. Even here you can leave custom games at any point. Also if u talk about DOTA, there were platforms that banned leavers like Garena, eurobattlenet and few others. Also they DID have alot of ragers and trolls. Not to mention worst plague of them all: Maphackers and gold trade hackers.

Artist Bogrim1 votes

Yes, I agree with you that Warcraft became riddled with Map hackers but that happened because Blizzard stopped trying to patch it as the game grew older. Most old games unfortunately succumb to hackers. What's amazing though is that the community created a custom client hack-free with their own tournaments and stuff.

As for custom games, I was actually just talking about normal ladder games and not dota games in specific. But thanks for your input regardless. :-)

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

Good points. Well said. And it will be completely ignored by RIOT.

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