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There should only be reports for grief

Shaddai··2 votes·902 views

Dumb system. The only people that report for "toxicity" (I wish people stopped using this term) are people that are themselves reported for it. It's just a broken system where people that start shit talking get shit talked by other people for shit talking, and then they report each other because that is their way of sticking it to the other guy.

And no, I've never been banned or muted. It's just that anyone with a brain or hasn't drank any of Riot's kool-aid can see this blindingly obvious flaw.

12 Comments

HEAljvLykd4 votes

Ok.

Shaddai1 votes

{quoted}

Ok.

Epic.

Slythion3 votes

I don't know about this, there's been plenty of times where I've simply not said anything to the obvious toxic guy and just reported him in the after lobby. I've learned you can't really talk sense into a rager/toxic player, and it simply makes you become toxic. It's best that they learn from rito that their behavior is unacceptable, like a kid/parent relationship.

Shaddai1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know about this, there's been plenty of times where I've simply not said anything to the obvious toxic guy and just reported him in the after lobby. I've learned you can't really talk sense into a rager/toxic player, and it simply makes you become toxic. It's best that they learn from rito that their behavior is unacceptable, like a kid/parent relationship.

It's not the job of a company to teach people how they are supposed to behave in the real world. Society checks this by shunning people that act inappropriately. There is no report system when someone starts saying no-no words to you in public, in fact, it is something everyone will have to deal with once they get into the real world. It's also very normal for people to get angry at each other and start arguing. It's nature. Having an arbitrary report system that is run by a community of minors with brains that haven't finished developing is just asking for trouble.

Being toxic is not a real thing. There is being angry because people are humans. That is what humans do - they get angry at circumstances they don't enjoy, especially ones they have no control over.

Anyone that graduated high school and has a job or career knows this. Apparently, though, Riot employees went to college in a hugbox.

Hunts and Dips4 votes

Having an arbitrary report system that is run by a community of minors with brains that haven't finished developing is just asking for trouble.

If you're referencing the tribunal, it hasn't been active for years.

Being toxic is not a real thing

Lol. Right.

It's not the job of a company to teach people how they are supposed to behave in the real world.

That's not the purpose of punishing players. Everyone plays this game to have some fun. It is a game.

However, there are people out there who just want to have fun at the expense of others (call them trash, etc.) and that is not fair to the vast majority who do not do this. In order to keep the largest player base possible, it is in their best interest as a business to tailor to the majority.

To do this, players who are toxic and make the experience of playing a video game un-fun (who likes to listen to 14 year olds have an argument?) need to be weeded out.

That is what humans do - they get angry at circumstances they don't enjoy, especially ones they have no control over.

We do have some control over it, we can help solve the problem by reporting players who ruin games.

Shaddai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hunts and Dips,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fUszVNf4,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-18T01:51:15.847+0000)

If you're referencing the tribunal, it hasn't been active for years.

Lol. Right.

That's not the purpose of punishing players. Everyone plays this game to have some fun. It is a game.

However, there are people out there who just want to have fun at the expense of others (call them trash, etc.) and that is not fair to the vast majority who do not do this. In order to keep the largest player base possible, it is in their best interest as a business to tailor to the majority.

To do this, players who are toxic and make the experience of playing a video un-fun (who likes to listen to 14 year olds have an argument?) need to be weeded out.

We do have some control over it, we can help solve the problem by reporting players who ruin games.

Very, and I mean very, few people try to troll be being "toxic". If you're referring to basic banter, which, for whatever fucking reason, I have been reported for, that's just retarded. Banter is basic to anything competitive, and no one will take you seriously if you legitimately try and say it's toxic in the real world.

I'm not referring to the tribunal, I'm referring to the fact that they have the ability to report people because they don't like that their dicks aren't being caressed. Weeding them out isn't going to happen. That's like trying to weed out human nature. While people do have control to some degree over how they act, again, we are talking about a vast majority of the player base under the age of 25. Scientifically speaking, brains aren't fully developed until that age. That is the decision making portion that decides how to respond to situations and use anger.

Now, legitimately trolling by going into a game and feeding, giving information, or afking, sure, that's someone trying to have fun at the expense of others and that should be reported, and that's fine. People reporting others for getting criticized on their playing, especially in a competitive, ranked game? That's just absurd. I understand that most of the people that play this game are nerdy kids that have never experienced a real sport, ventured out of their social groups, or had a real job or worked on a community project, but that's no excuse for criticism to be considered toxic.

Also, I'm mostly referring to ranked/competitive play. That's probably important to mention. People don't play this mode to have fun. They play to win and be competitive. In a competitive environment like this, you are going to be criticized, and depending on the activity and environment, possibly harshly. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be a part of that. Again, this comes back to this thing I said before, most of this community seems to be a bunch of nerdy kids that haven't never joined a real sport and been told they are doing something wrongly by their fellow players or coaches, and that they need to step it up or fix the way they are playing. Admittedly, it's probably not going to be as harsh because it's monitored, but that's a different can of worms altogether.

You can believe in 4 years of high school varsity sports I heard some anger and criticism between players, but you know what? There wasn't some stupid fucking report system because it's expected.

If this generation continues to be shielded by this safe-place, hugbox mentality it's going to fall very hard when they realize the reality of the world.

Slythion3 votes

"I understand that most of the people that play this game are nerdy kids that have never experienced a real sport, ventured out of their social groups, or had a real job or worked on a community project, but that's no excuse for criticism to be considered toxic."

That's just...wrong. Like, literally everything about that sentence is wrong except MAYBE the last bit about criticism and toxicity. In most cases people criticize in a toxic manner, not given to actually improve their teammate's skill but as a "do what I say because I know best" message.

Hunts and Dips3 votes

You are very ignorant.

Enjoy your ban.

MasterSomething1 votes

(who likes to listen to 14 year olds have an argument?)

Shit, my hobby has been exposed

PIMPSMOOTH2 votes

Rammus Ok.

ModPrandine1 votes

To address some of your more major points:

  1. People can report for anything, but if it's a false report, then they'll have their report weight dropped, and if they make/have a habit of making false reports then they'll actually be banned for doing so.

  2. There's trash talking and then there's being a jerk. From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

Trash talk is part of all competitive sports. It happens all the time in the pros.

Yes and no. Yes, trash talk occurs, but it has definite limits. Most of the things that are punished in game (racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs, sexism, etc.) would also earn you a hefty fine in professional sports.

A Tumblr List of NBA Fines (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/) (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.)

A List of NFL Fines for Taunting (http://www.spotrac.com/fines-tracker/nfl/all-years/fines/taunting/)

NBC Article on Fines Agreed to by the NFLPA (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/bizarrely-specific-nfl-fines-come-from-agreed-league-union-schedule/) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500."

NHL Office of Player Safety (http://www.nhl.com/ice/eventhome.htm?location=/playersafety) Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing.

... and the grand finale! Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments.

3: Gameplay toxicity is much harder to track than verbal toxicity is, but rest assured that those who do troll via gameplay are in fact banned when Riot does end up catching up to them.

4: You claim that the majority of people who report are "younger kids". This is just simply not true. It doesn't take a certified genius to know that being a jerk of any kind is unacceptable anywhere, and that if all you care about is being a jerk and harassing those that disagree with you then you will be punished for it, guaranteed.

From the Tribunal FAQ:

What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language? We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, fing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "fing *****" or "ngger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.


Will the Tribunal change the “attitude” of players? We know that there is a small percentage of players that will never change their attitudes, and will always be toxic in every single game they play. The Tribunal is designed to remove these players from the game and will continue to ban them aggressively until they stop playing League of Legends.

However, there is also a percentage of players that currently behave poorly, but with the Reform Cards from the Tribunal will learn what they need to change to avoid being punished by the Tribunal. In NA and EU, up to 50% of players that are punished actually change their behaviors because of the Reform Cards and are not punished again. I am hopeful that the Taiwan community can show even bigger improvement and together make even bigger changes in the Taiwan community.

From Understanding the Tribunal:

5) Low skill players should be banned from the game! The Tribunal should only ban Leavers/AFK and intentional feeders, those are the only types of players that really ruin games! a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.

From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

“People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.”

Let’s start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)):

Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.

Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules.

With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as “Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair.

There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS.

This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this.

EDITED 18 JULY 2014


“If you kids report and punish things like this, you’re going to be in trouble when you get out in the real world.”

This is a subset of the oversensitivity argument, but I feel it warrants separate treatment.

You're making the highly unwarranted assumption that the people who punish for "noob" lack real-world experiences. If you were to ask the TBI regulars, you would find that almost all of us are at least in their late 20's, if not significantly older. Most of us have at least undergraduate degrees. So, this idea that we're all naive little children is more than a little silly.

Also, we know that professional players dislike people who spend their time typing because math. Not only are the report rates for the highest tiers not significantly lower than anywhere else (this from Lyte), but the pros know how that kind of behavior affects play. Someone who is on tilt is throwing the game just as much as the person who is playing poorly.

The truth of the matter is that the loose cannons end up having their misbehavior overshadow their skill. Look at Dennis Rodman. There has never been a better rebounder. Ever. But his legacy is not that he was basically a human vacuum. No, it's that he was out of control, both on and off the court.

In short, this is a stupid argument if you know anything about the people who are reporting and punishing you.


“I don’t think that people should be punished for speech. Other things, like feeding, are much more disruptive.”

I’m not going to tell you that your opinion is wrong, but you should know that neither Riot nor the majority of the community agrees with you. This is evidenced by the fact that the community has always consistently punished verbal toxicity. There may be some minor disagreement over certain words and phrases, but the overwhelming consensus is that it isn’t welcome here.

Also, you aren’t ever going to get a pass on X because Y is worse. We’ll still punish you all day for ANY toxicity. Get used to it.

Shaddai1 votes

{quoted}

To address some of your more major points:

  1. People can report for anything, but if it's a false report, then they'll have their report weight dropped, and if they make/have a habit of making false reports then they'll actually be banned for doing so.

  2. There's trash talking and then there's being a jerk. From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base: (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments.

3: Gameplay toxicity is much harder to track than verbal toxicity is, but rest assured that those who do troll via gameplay are in fact banned when Riot does end up catching up to them.

4: You claim that the majority of people who report are "younger kids". This is just simply not true. It doesn't take a certified genius to know that being a jerk of any kind is unacceptable anywhere, and that if all you care about is being a jerk and harassing those that disagree with you then you will be punished for it, guaranteed.

From the Tribunal FAQ:


We know that there is a small percentage of players that will never change their attitudes, and will always be toxic in every single game they play. The Tribunal is designed to remove these players from the game and will continue to ban them aggressively until they stop playing League of Legends.

From Understanding the Tribunal: a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.

From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base: Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player._



Racial things, obviously, are more than just banter. Unfortunately, people who just continue cite that garbage don't understand that a lot of things like that are pr because you have to keep the association looking clean, which is understandable on Riot's part, but they don't use that as the motivating factor. Like I said, until this community hits the real world and learns just how bullshit any of that actually is, they will never understand, I guess.

I also didn't say anything about false reports. I said people report the other person because it's their way of sticking it to the other person for "being toxic". I don't doubt they legitimately believe the other person is being toxic and use the feature as such, but the fact that they themselves are being toxic negates the purpose.

Anyway, I already knew coming to this forum was a pointless endeavor, just like going onto a shit show site like reddit or tumblr is a wasted endeavor. A guilty pleasure I do enjoy indulging in, however.

Good job Riot, you participated in creating several million wimps.

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