Boards›Player Behavior

New Option for the Punishment System

Face it·2/24/2020, 6:14:25 AM·1 votes·6,688 views

Had a fun discussion with a Riot Player Support not too long ago about some ideas about the system and other stuff that won't be included in this thread and will be created under other boards.

This is a bit long for 1 solution to be added so bear with me, but I think the negatives that this could bring are significantly lower than the negatives we currently deal with, with peoples toxicity in the game.

I'd love to hear peoples thought on this. Have fun reading.

  • After playing for a very long time, I have noticed one big thing about this aspect of the game and it's that people love to type when things don't go their way(Shocker!). Most people hate to have to deal with it, and on the other side, those players are hated and often will get greeted with bans and chat bans(Some deserved, others could have an alternative punishment). Yet, right after the punishment is lifted, they go back to their old ways... WHY IS THAT? A lot of people will go on to create new accounts, and keep on their toxic ways. Because let's be honest, you have to be pushing it far to be perma banned right ? and most of those people don't care to change no matter what.

  • Wouldn't it be fair for them and fair for the rest of the player base if other ways of punishment would be added ? Let's explore.

Important: This following idea does not apply to people ruining game by inting or running down mid, only for Keyboard Warriors.

Point 1: Why Perma ban or 14Days ban a player, and have them create another account simply because they type too much or talk too much shit? We all know how those people are AMAZING with new players at level 1 trying to learn the game DON'T WE ? I have experienced it while leveling with new friends of mine as well and it's pathetic. Those players have 0 consideration and seem to forget that they were bad when they started at level 1 too. This is a BIG first point. WHY make new players suffer because the system is not well equipped to deal with these players? SAme goes for bought account and these people playing on lvl 30 smurfs after bans. What can the system do to remove those chat warriors ?

Point 2: We all know people or have seen people on social media or on these very boards posting their ban logs and trying to prove that they did not deserve it, and when you take a look at it, there's 100 fucking lines of text in a 20 minute game. And the next thing you know, the ban is lifted after 2 weeks, and they keep on being toxic... WHY IS THAT?

Is it too far fetched to assume that this will obviously happen? Most people accustomed with twitch streamers will recognize your favorite honor 0 / 20 perma-ban streamers who will never change even if they get banned 100 times. What can the system do to remove those chat warriors ?

Current Punishment Chain : 1: 10 Games chat restriction 2: 25 Games chat restriction 3: 14 Days ban 4: Permanent Ban

This is the current system whether you int or talk too much shit. Unless you use Racial slurs or other stuff considered too heavy, those can be permanent ban instantly and I think we all agree with this part here. Those players simply don't have a place in this game.

- Observation 1: Let's take the idea that we hate these people and that we love to see them getting Perma banned or 2 week banned or whatever else out of our heads for a second. Let's take a step back and think about how said person could have difficulties in it's life, or simply never was thought self control, or respect or whatever. That person does not have high chance to change simply with a game banning them and telling them they did something wrong. They are simply not equipped to think of it that way. For them to change they would need to change on a personal level, through real life events and experiences, not the negative indicatives that a ban brings. Most of them will only end up developing frustration towards the game.

Solution 1: Instead of going through the normal chain of punishment we could add a new one, addressing keyboard warriors. That is, to remove their ability to use the chat feature entirely if they reach X level in the chain, let's say after the 25 game chat restriction. (For this example. let's say for 1 year.(Could be more, could be less, but let's use this for the example.))

Solution 2: When people are below honor 2: Honor 1: They automatically have a chat restriction all the way until they get back to level 2. If they find a way to drop to Honor 0 with a chat restriction enabled, their chat is revoke completely until they reach Honor 1. Then goes as shown above from 1 to 2. This system forces people to change since it forces them to adopt a different behavior for longer periods of time, thus creating habits. 2 Week bans does not do this, it simply gives you a break...Right? ... ... ... No..., most people will just keep playing but on other accounts.(BIG PROBLEM)

Potential Outcome 1: These players will not be creating level 1 accounts right after a fresh ban to then go on and terrorize the new players trying to learn the game. These players will also not be on ''bought accounts'' for those who know about them right after a ban to go terrorize lower elo because they are frustrated and need a new account while they wait for their main to get unbanned. Let's not kid ourselves, if they care this much about the game they won't stop playing. We all know those smurf who come in our games, go 0-10 then blame someone for fucking up and continue on insulting their rank and calling them hard-stuck gold and trying to brag that that they are the shit and don't give a fuck about you and this game because it's a smurf... or the famous... wait for it... Getting called a ''subhuman'' for not being master like him ? Rings any bell people ?... I'm sure it does... That's the players we want to give as little incentives to do this as possible. Obviously this does not stop smurfing, but I believe it would be much more tolerable if they weren't complete pieces of shit while doing it.

Potential Outcome 2: Communication!! We could not communicate with them! Do you really want those people to communicate with you other than with pings ? (Keep in mind we're talking about people under level 2 Honor in solution 2 or people above the 25 Games chat restrictions level in solution 1, not your once in a lifetime toxic people. Adding this would not cut most peoples chat, only the people who would usually get banned for it)

  • Also, even though we love to hate on those people and tell them they don't deserve anything or their accounts or to play the game... etc etc. If we all take a few minutes to really look at it, you can easily picture the person behind the monitor, and obviously there are just plain dickheads just to be dickheads, but we all have those friends who have shitty lives, get bullied, can't defend themselves, are reserved, and take out their frustration on the game and their teammates. This just HAPPENS A LOT, do these players deserve to lose their account that they had for X number of years ? And have spent X amount of money on simply because they talk shit and argue about whether the jungler should of ganked their lane after a shitty day or many shitty days? I personally think those players using chat in wrongful ways, could have punishment better suited to their situation. And by removing toxic peoples chat, you remove dickheads and remove them from creating new accounts after a fresh ban and save those who simply are at their patience's end with life and school a chance to keep their account instead of having it perma banned, but they simply can't type anymore as a punishment.

Important: After talking with the player support, It was brought to my attention that they have implemented a similar system of longer chat restriction period. I am not talking about the normal chat restriction here, I'm talking complete removal of their chat.

  • Yes there is a mute system, but let's be honest here, we all know most people would rather not mute, argue, and ask for a 9 man report in all chat don't we... We've all seen those nice players asking them to mute each other only to see them go harder at it and /all'ing it. After all, why wouldn't they ? IF their report do end up working, the Dopamine rush that they get from the message after the game that the other player was penalized is so ADDICTING! So addicting in fact, that all of you who are part of Facebook groups will see those post on a close to daily basis... We all see those people posting the picture of the other person being punished in those groups, showing it like it is a trophy or something and being fed more dopamine with people liking the post and commenting HA GOOD FOR HIM!!!... Why would they stop reporting and asking for report, starting wars about who deserves the report more and defending both points in all chat... Wouldn't it be more fun if those people didn't have a chat to begin with ? Let's be honest here, who is sick and just so over this trend of the 2 players going at it for 10 min in all chat only for the enemy team to tell them to STFU and play the game ?

This is the direction the game has been taking for a while... and no one seem to bat an eye over it other than complain that Riot won't change it. After all, these players are just... childish, immature and... toxic... Right ?

  • Whether people agree to it or not, people are shaped and influenced by their environment and the systems implemented around them and with the age of the player base, expecting them to take the right direction instead of following their addictions, passions and emotions,... it's simply far fetched to hope everyone would fix themselves and stop typing pointless shit in chat.

  • If the game rewards this toxic behavior and it does without anyone noticing... Then it will keep happening. I know it is funny to think about it this way, but let's just take a minute and remember when we were young, especially those who had siblings. Didn't you secretly feel so good when you argued with your sibling and your mom came in and... ''took your side'' telling the other one HEY DON'T DO THAT ? Everyone smiled at their sibling showing HEY! SEE, MOM SAID I'M RIGHT!, to then have mom, as a good mom, tell you HEY! i'M NOT TAKING ANYONE'S SIDE!! Try to picture the message after the game when people get penalized as mommy coming in telling you you were right and your sibling was the one who did something wrong. Do we see the picture starting to draw itself here ? The person getting that message, even though he typed a NOVEL in that game AND WE ALL KNOW HE DID..., just got told, good job! you helped the community be a better place by reporting this behavior... Isn't that ironic ? I DARE you to ask the people posting these bullshit screenshots of them receiving this message after a game on Facebook/Twitter to show you THEIR personal in game chat that game, see for yourself how little sense it makes for them to give us this message, especially to those players. Of course some people don't type and like to see that the game hears their feedback, but these people aren't the problem and it sucks for them, but I'm sure they'd be fine with it if it meant less incentives to type.

- I honestly think there's no reason not to implement this, regardless, those who would get banned will still get punished and those only typing and never inting will then become good caliber teammates in your games, without the added toxicity! Since, according to many people, me included, toxic people are annoying, but often are good at the game because they care about it and I would rather have a toxic person on my team than a casual one. So let's let them carry us, but doing it in silence! :)~~

  • I've heard lot's of people come up with conspiracy or whatever you want to call it on boards or other means that Riot like it better that way because they know these players will come back and spend the same amount of money they did on their banned account now on their new one, to then get it banned again... Rinse repeat. Could this be true ? I don't give this more weight than them simply not thinking or giving this a shot first than simply rushing to that conclusion based on hatred. But hey, make your own opinion about it if you like :)

Thanks for reading, and hopefully this get's some attention.

I think this could solve many peoples headache with dealing with Keyboard warriors and many people's money at the same time.

Cheers!

54 Comments

ron112/24/2020, 4:59:40 PM16 votes

If no one is going to really let this post sink in, then take me as your bashing example.

I am a big investigator of this. I am THAT guy in your games that will call out people dying top 1v1, calling out my support for taking a cs or fucking up a fight bot lane and having them leave my lane forever and troll other teammates by stealing XP and what have you.

And let me tell you, these players often type back and go off into arguments with me. Many others will start inting by that result thus making me even more angry at them.

But when I decided to remove my chat entirely by doing something supposedly ''illegal'' in playing in offline mode for near 100 games, I almost never saw people int. ALMOST NEVER. It was not hard to draw the lines at that point, THAT IF I DID STFU IN MY OWN GAMES, people would not want to try and make me lose deliberately.

So many people in this thread seem to think a lot of people will be toxic if they are not provoked by chat. To you guys, I suggest if you are like me to try it out. And see the results yourself. I was shocked at first. But it was a completely different game. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

But looking back at it, most of us people talking about how the community is toxic, are the instigator of that toxicity. But our ego loves to not let us think we're the bad guys. But we simply are. We reap what we sow. If us toxic players don't type to people, then other toxic people don't have to get in on the fun.

Very little people go into a game thinking ''I'm gonna int this''. And those people simply will do it based off picks and bans and this new added option just isn't linked with this since champ select is a different beast.

Omgdontdie2/24/2020, 6:41:52 AM11 votes

100% agree. I like that point about them trying to milk as much money as they can and could totally buy into that idea if I wanted to. I've seen too many instances of what you have pointed out, and them staying on their main in silence seems to be a good feature to be added.

What are we losing here other than them putting in a few hours of work to make it a thing... Inters and racist people get perma banned or ideally a new idea comes up for them, while overly caring players who type too much without being racist can play the game in silence. Sounds about right to me.

Make it happen Riot plz. One step in the right direction. Now only 9999 more steps to take!

eL RevivaL2/24/2020, 7:04:47 AM10 votes

Make that happen! People truly don't learn, if this even gives us 1 game out of 10 where we don't hear their bullshit then I'm more than OK with that.

So many people already do mute all and don't use chat to focus, maybe they should be forced into this strategy so THEY can focus too!

Subdue2/24/2020, 7:12:42 AM8 votes

In the previous system that Riot implemented, chat restrictions stacked indefinitely, which basically became permanent for repeat offenders, which was effectively a permanent chat ban.

https://i.imgur.com/KfKjDAj.png

What they found is that when toxic players were permanently muted, they resorted to other methods to piss off their teammates, such as intentionally feeding.

So no, this is a terrible idea.

Tolinar2/24/2020, 6:45:38 AM8 votes

This would be Better Than Nothing. Marginally.

But Nothing would also be pretty good at this point.

Because I still get treated like crap despite the system in place, only now the system makes me feel like crap also.

teto02/24/2020, 7:00:58 AM6 votes

Yeah that takes care of the chat problem in a better way than what they have already in place! I like it.

Now we need an option to deal with the truly frustrating inters!!

vIiZWinni2/24/2020, 6:53:54 AM6 votes

Nothing to lose by adding that honestly. Games would be much more enjoyable if those people did not have the ability to type.

I agree with perma banned being taken more seriously by Riot as only a last measure... People do indeed spend lots of money in the game and banning that just feels like laziness on their part instead of trying to find better ways.

They do say they want people to change when receiving punishment, but I LOVE that idea about Honor system and helping players creating habits and rewarding them automatically when they show they can not be toxic when chat restricted, and if they keep on doing it, then they lose that privilege again. I would add to that point that if you start going through H2-H1-H2-H1 then you don't want to learn and then the solution 1 could be weaved in there in case it doesn't work.

Love the idea, nothing to lose by adding it. I do believe it is a step in the right direction although it does not fix the problem 100% :)

Hermodwald2/24/2020, 6:26:43 AM6 votes

I think people should grow a pair of balls and actually use the mute feature. The problem is people get banned for even things as small as "poopoohead," because Riot Lyte decided to take his liberal ideas and implement them into Riot's game so that these pansy kids can have their "safe space" to go 0-10 in. Riot Lyte thinks that the people who go 0-10 should be praised and you should tell them "great job! keep up the great work!" while you are trying to win a ranked game.

Ummm... how about no? How about these people should be told "hey stop fucking fighting the 2v2 that you have lost 4 times in a row now and ward up and farm so we can carry you!" Unfortunately if you say stuff like this, they say "omg so toxic will report" because Riot Lyte put it into everyone's minds that ANYTHING that isn't praise is toxicity.

It's a competitive environment. People are trying to climb and you get these kids who are playing ranked "for fun" who consistently take a carry role but haven't carried a game their entire life. It's an absolute joke and I believe if anyone ever says in chat "it's just a game" or "glhf" or "just playing for fun" I think they should be locked out of ranked permanently.

Imperial Pandaa2/24/2020, 3:00:01 PM4 votes

Against.

Riot previously tried infinite scaling CR before the introduction of the IFS. What was the result? People started to INT more.

If the response is going to be "but we are completely removing the chat option for h1 and h0" then how is it truly different? They will still be at risk of Intentionally feeding because they can't rage.

Forcibly turning off their chat doesn't demonstrate THEIR reform/improvement. Why is it Riot's responsibility to hold ones hand back to honor 2? At least if the player is the one either muting all or opting out of ally chat with that setting; that is them making a conscience choice.

As for the new accounts, usually the system is pretty good about matching smurfs with smurfs after a couple games. A way that could be improved would be have BOT carry an MMR pre level 5 that transfers to blinds.

The conspiracy theory. Is completely stupid in my opinion. The official stance from Riot is "Permaban means we don't want you or your money". And quite frankly. If you how been punished and don't plan on understanding why to improve, why are you(not actually you) buying more stuff?

Soft Mist2/24/2020, 10:47:20 AM3 votes

god please, I'm not going to run it down if chat gets muted, I honestly would like an option that muted my typing, but still let me see teammates chat and enemy chat, but I can't do that, i either have to disable my chat and team/enemy chat, or have my chat available and team/enemy chat available

the community has been asking for YEARS an option to not be able to type, but it took them 9 years to give us an option to mute ally chat before game starts, which is not 100% what people wanted.

Toxic Teeto2/24/2020, 2:02:07 PM2 votes

How about this:

We stop reporting people for meaningless things like typing in chat. INSTEAD we report every single person who intentionally tries to ruin games. This way, the system learns and ACTUALLY BANS THEM.

Flaming will be reduced at least about 99%.

Fight me.

NF Remilia2/24/2020, 1:54:02 PM2 votes

Outcome 3 : they will run it down mid when they get angry and cant vent in chat.

Riot tested the perma chat bans. People ran it down like crazy. So the chain will be closed once again. The only solution is to make ua buy the game and bind it to account , lets say 50$ to biy the game and another 30$ to activate your account , this way they wont make tons of accounts , botting will stop and people will fear more about their account.

Soft Mist2/24/2020, 10:51:32 AM2 votes

you're not wrong btw, I love to get that instant feedback report, and yeah sometimes you just jebait a person or Entrap them "a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a "crime" that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit."

into flaming you, even tho normally they wouldn't just so you can get that sweet instant feedback report, also riot really doesn't give a fuck about spreading awareness that it only takes 1 report, every other game maybe even every game I see " report X player " but riot on twitter and on their summoner code support have said that 1 report is the same as 9 reports, but somehow 99% of the community doesn't know about it. it's not even one of riots dumbass tips on loading screen, this might actually be a useful loading screen tip, that gets people to stop begging for reports, if they actually knew it only took 1 report.

Boppas2/24/2020, 9:54:39 PM2 votes

Riot should make it to where you cant say words that will get you banned in certain online games words that can get you banned wont send which is a good way to filter that and second People should learn to use mute