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Questions about Honor

moomerator·1/10/2018, 11:22:42 PM·1 votes·447 views

Last season I was an extremely toxic player. I never inted or rage quit but if I thought any member of my team was under-performing I made it very clear. There were a lot of games that frankly I was surprised that I got no warning for. That all being said, I wasn't particularly surprised when I got a 14-day ban. What was surprising was that I got the ban from a game where I got 3 honors for telling my duo "kys trash draven f****t u suk eks dee" after he got a triple in a 3v1. Obviously the 4th person didn't find what was meant to be sarcasm funny and looking back at it I can appreciate that the language in it was in poor taste and the ban bot agreed (understandably). That all being said I can appreciate that if an objective system found me guilty, I was guilty and am not complaining.

I wasn't particularly upset given that I knew I had been out of line in other games and not gotten punished so the ban served as a wake up call that I had gradually become more and more toxic over the years and needed a reset. I took a month and a half off and for the last 3 months have been very careful not to use any particularly offensive language or to ever flame others. If somebody on my team is feeding I frankly just mute them and don't mention anything about it. I play with friends a lot too all of whom were all honor 5 within about a month after its release so I asked them to let me know if I was ever doing something out of line so that I could correct it. I'm still sitting at honor 0 but this doesn't seem to be a unique thing so maybe I just need to keep waiting which is fine.

My fear however is that my account's honor always behaved very strangely and I'm not sure if it was intentional because of past toxicity or if it truly is some bug. I've done my research since my ban and I have seen several confirmations that reports which are not punished do not impact honor (this way toxic people can't just tarnish the honor of others by reporting them). If this is the case, there was a very long period where I was never punished and received a fair number of honors and never went past honor 2; given that it seems there isn't anything to bring honor down other than penalties, it rules out that I was being poorly behaved enough that the honors and dishonors cancelled out. Furthermore, my key fragments behaved very strangely during this time; I would see no keys for about a month and then receive 5 key frags, re-log and get 3 more and then not see any more for another several weeks after which point I would receive another boatload one day. Talking to others, this doesn't seem normal or intentional.

As many others have said it would be nice to get some sort of honor progress bar. I can appreciate that Riot isn't particularly concerned about implementations that benefit the "dishonorable community" but it would be nice to have the peace of mind that my honor is in fact rising and not bugged to never go up. If that's too much to ask, it would be nice to hear from a Red confirming that my account's honor isn't somehow bugged. Even if it's somebody saying "our system can't get bugged on a specific account, that doesn't make any sense, congratulations: you may not be toxic anymore but you are a moron," that's fine with me as long as I know I have a chance at getting out of honor 0.

If that is the case I think it'd also be nice if Riot gave some insight as to how the honor algorithm works. From what I've found, here's what has been confirmed: reports that don't result in penalties do not negatively impact honor, that honoring others boosts honor, that entire teams honoring boosts honor, and receiving honor boosts honor; but that's about it from what I've found (and yes, I've looked).

Tl;dr Here are my questions: 1 (and most importantly). Is it possible for an account to be bugged so that it cannot gain honor? 2. I assume honors from premades give less honor, does this mean that frequently playing with premades hampers my ability to gain honor (logically this would be the case)? 3. Is frequency of honors taken into account (somebody getting 2 honors a game for 50 games vs getting 1 honor a game for 100)? 4. Is there anything that brings down honor other than penalties (such as if I was in the past getting reported once every 5 games but never did anything severe enough for a mute/ban)?

7 Comments

Sukishoo1/10/2018, 11:29:50 PM4 votes

Even if you're not actually punished, Valid reports will hold you back from gaining honor. So if you're saying things that might be the slightest bit negative to someone and they report you, then the system checks as a yes, you will just start over and over.

moomerator1/11/2018, 1:39:36 AM4 votes

Thank you all, I hadn't realized that honor progression was halted due to "unpunished" toxicity so sorry for my lack of knowledge there and thanks for the enlightenment. I appreciate all your feedback!

Tormentula1/10/2018, 11:47:27 PM2 votes

I noticed when I said stuff like "ggwp, nj, gj" it made me climb in honor way faster, as if the system is looking for those keywords to rank you up. Saying nothing at all seemed to make my honor climb slower. I'd imagine it'd also be harder to get out of rank 0 and 1 and the system needs to figure if you've "reformed" with consistently different behavior.

1: Not that i've heard of, but I doubt it, this shouldn't be the case. Lot of people complaining about honor grinds, especially at launch, still eventually got results so its just a hard grind in your case.

2: Eh, the honors you get in lobby aren't worth much regardless, in comparison to how the system gives honors for good behavior (I think all my level ups were 10 minutes after post screen of games I didn't get honored in). IME the honors you get in games are just tiny bonuses, rather then actual productive necessities, don't stress too much about them and stop playing with friends as a result. Yes premade honors has little to no value from what I've heard, if multiple premades honor you I'm not quite sure if it counts as 1, but the "everybody honored" bonus still applies.

3: I'd imagine so. One thing about the player behavior systems is they look for "consistency" rather then "one time deals". Hence why you got the hammer so suddenly for sarcasm when in general you've been toxic enough for the system to believe you're just toxic. I'd think the other way around works too, for good behavior over a series of a games it'd probably boost you.

4: No, honor only drops in the instance you get punished. Any time you get chat restricted or banned that honor drops depending on the severity of the punishment (to my knowledge, only a 10 day chat restriction leads to honor 1, rest honor 0). Toxic behavior that isn't punished may hurt your progression, but never drop until an actual punishment. False reports don't do anything.

Note: I'm not a rioter so I don't know EXACTLY how the system works, but this is mostly speculation from trends I've personally noticed with the system over time.

YerroFever1/11/2018, 12:11:03 AM2 votes

{quoted} Tl;dr Here are my questions: 1 (and most importantly). Is it possible for an account to be bugged so that it cannot gain honor?

No, there is no bug that has been detected thus far (or at least disclosed to us on the forums)

The standard of regaining honor is "do not be dishonorable." This means, just because you don't get punished doesn't mean you're progressing. Every time you harass/flame/use hate speech/tell someone to kill themselves/troll/int/etc... your progress gets halted and you have to show more progress in reforming. This means that if you get reported in a game for mild harassment and the harassment is in the chat logs but IFS determines it to be below the punishment threshold, your honor gain is still slowed.

What this tells me is that you're not fully reformed in the eyes of Riot. You're still not treating your teammates well and you should probably use the test of, "Am I typing because I am upset/angry/disappointed/frustrated/any other negative emotion?" If the answer is yes... don't press enter. Don't type. The easiest way to knock your honor back is to insult, harass, or flame your teammates mildly. You may think you're progressing in honor because you're not getting chat restricted but the system still logs you if you get reported and the IFS finds the harassment/flame in the chat logs.

For the purposes of the this question, lets say that each game's chat is rated between a 1 and 10 when someone is reported. 1 is nothing toxic and 10 is hyper toxic. Say the punishment trigger is a toxic chat rating of 4 and above. If you are getting reported and those games are getting 2's and 3's, although you are not getting punished, you're still registered as level 2 and level 3 toxic and thus you're getting your honor halted.

Hopefully this example helps.

  1. I assume honors from premades give less honor, does this mean that frequently playing with premades hampers my ability to gain honor (logically this would be the case)?

I think honors from premades are worth less (how much less I don't know). This guess is based on how you need 2 premade honors for the loading flair vs 1 rando honor for loading flair. As for reforming and regaining honor levels, I do not know for sure.

  1. Is frequency of honors taken into account (somebody getting 2 honors a game for 50 games vs getting 1 honor a game for 100)?

I think all of your games are monitored when you're in dishonorable status and I think getting honored helps but I'm not sure.

  1. Is there anything that brings down honor other than penalties (such as if I was in the past getting reported once every 5 games but never did anything severe enough for a mute/ban)?

This is exactly what brings your honor down. Whenever you're reported and you've actually done something that is toxic but isn't toxic enough to get punished, your honor gain is slowed down because you're showing evidence that you aren't reformed.

Telephone Booth1/11/2018, 5:55:11 AM1 votes

One misconception I saw; you said reports that do not result in punishment do not affect your honor. This is false. Sometimes it is found that a report is not toxic enough to get you punished, but is toxic enough to affect your honor. A lot of people have been held back from increasing in honor because of this. Just today I read a similar thread where Tantram came in and told him he is not showing any honor. He put some dialogue up and it was the player bitching and insulting people. It wasn't enough (somehow) to punish him, but it did keep him at honor 0.

Edit: aaaand I see you've been informed already.