"Toxicity" from a toxic players perspective.

Gozniz··5 votes·3,414 views

So I saw a post from the user AngusBoomPants on a different thread about how "even if you mute chat, they would still type with no messages available". I was going to just reply in that thread but I ended up typing a lot more and talking about something I think is a much bigger and more important issue. My reply was mostly the first paragraph but then it extends in to me talking about the boards and my impression of the users/staff members views of toxicity, and etc. So yeah, here is my wall of text:

This would be probably the best case scenario possible that could happen to a toxic player. They could still play the game and wouldn't be able to be toxic in chat. I fail to see how this is or has ever been looked at as a bad option for player punishment. Permanently banning people for something wrong they did in the chat will always be an "extreme measure" despite Riot's general lax attitude about handing it out in comparison to how other games treat it. I am toxic(despite trying to not be and ending up being banned regardless), and I am telling you right now if I were simply chat restricted I would never have a chance to be toxic again. What no one on this board realizes(because they are too busy circlejerking and laughing at other people's toxicity) is that very few actual toxic players enjoy being toxic. I am not flaming people because I get some sick enjoyment out of making them experience my anger or whatever most of these Riot staff believe.

You want to know the real reason people are toxic? It's very complex, listen closely; T h e y | d o n ' t | l i k e | t o | l o s e.

It's really just that simple. If I am adc and flaming my support want to know why? Because whether justified or not it is the only way a lot of people feel even if it's just a little, less frustrated/angry. They aren't sitting there saying "I can't wait to make this person feel bad about themselves" they just get more passionate or frustrated/angry with the game than the average person and so they lash out because it's the closest medium they have to blow off steam as quickly as possible. No it never "fixes it", but it just makes some people feel a little better.

Don't get me wrong this is not an argument for being toxic. It's quite the opposite. I just think many of you after only spending a couple days reading posts either fall in to one of two categories;

1. You respect/admire Riot and their rules so much that no player ever complaining about an issue with the rules can ever be correct under any circumstance and no matter what your chat logs say or who the player is if you were banned for being toxic it was completely justified regardless. 2. You hate Riot so much that everyone who is #1 is an absolute ignorant moron and you think over 80% of the toxicity bans are probably for bullshit reasons. Riot is a terrible company that is probably losing players and will eventually die because their rules are beyond laughable and you were probably banned for absolutely nothing no matter what the logs say or anyone tells you. It's also ridiculous for anyone to even suggest you were toxic and frankly no one knows a god damn thing about actual toxicity.

There are even some people that seem to think anyone who is toxic deserves to be extradited out of their country and tried for real harassment as the villainous people they truly are(only half exaggerating). Seriously though. Most toxic people are probably not bad people, even me. I am speaking completely normal right now, despite my anger over my recent ban, I am for the most part keeping a level head in this entire post. People seem to have some outlandish idea in their imagination that toxic players are just this group of the worlds most disgusting humans possible, and they are just ready to pounce at all times, living in a world that only consists of rage through their eyes.

Reality is that most of these people are just normal people with a bit of a short temper. Most of this thread has been pretty objective but subjectively speaking, and from personal experience, it almost feels like Riot are out to treat every player like a repeat offender from the very first offense. I got one warning ban before I was quickly perma'd in no more than 5 games after it had expired. As well not only was it incredibly quick, but it was for(however you see it, I think you can agree) a pretty minor outburst(ref. my previous thread). Point is, I really wasn't even given much of a chance to "reform" I was basically sentenced the same as if I had been toxic over the course of hundreds of games, despite playing barely over 50 and probably not even talking in half of them.

I'm just saying you people really need to understand who these "rule-breakers" are, because they are probably much more normal than you'd assume, and i'd even be willing to bet more than half of them wish they could be less toxic in game.

27 Comments

verysalt6 votes

From my perspective playing 1st time champ in Ranked and heavily feeding then calling a "bad game" is equal to toxicity.

I respect RIOT for trying to remove toxicity but it's clearly they don't approach the reason why some normally non-toxic players getting upset for. They can improve the situation simply by allowing minimum Mastery 1 champ for ranked, so at least player knows how this champion works and there will not be such discrepancy when lvl 0 champ meets lvl 7 opponent.

enragecapri2 votes

That is the most stupidest shit I've read today.

velraptured5 votes

I have a ******* support who wanted to go teleport/cleanse and said 'I havent played in a long time sorry i dont know the right spells to pick' even though they have played 5 games in the last 3 hours. They proceed to pick dorans ring as their starter item. My mid proceeds to int 3 kills in the first 8 minutes, with my top lane right behind him at 2. Meanwhile I have pressured their jungler out of the game. THESE ARE ALL LANE SPECIFIC THINGS. But because I would be "upset" by this, if I said ANYTHING about it, I'm the toxic one. I'm the bad guy. I'm the bad guy for wanting to open and let them just end, because I'm here to practice in a REAL match of league of legends, not Bash my head against a freaking rock for 50 minutes!!!! YAY I LOVE THIS GAME.

verysalt2 votes

{quoted}

I have a ******* support who wanted to go teleport/cleanse and said 'I havent played in a long time sorry i dont know the right spells to pick' even though they have played 5 games in the last 3 hours. They proceed to pick dorans ring as their starter item. My mid proceeds to int 3 kills in the first 8 minutes, with my top lane righ---t behind him at 2. Meanwhile I have pressured their jungler out of the game. THESE ARE ALL LANE SPECIFIC THINGS. But because I would be "upset" by this, if I said ANYTYHING about it, I'm the toxic one. I'm the bad guy. I'm the bad guy for wanting to open and let them just end, because I'm here to practice in a REAL match of league of legends, not Bash my head against a freaking rock for 50 minutes----!!!! YAY I LOVE THIS GAME.

Good highlight of what really creates toxic atmosphere.

BlueThingamajig2 votes

Something I'm impressed by is how your team managed to hold on for 50 minutes, despite having a trolling support and incompetent solo laners...

But I think there is an important distinction to make. You're not THE bad guy for wanting to surrender, you're A bad guy in a rough situation for wanting to open mid. A REAL match of league of legends can have any number of crazy situations, win or lose. I get it, it sucks to have bad teammates and a trolling support. But they will happen, and they will happen in around 40% of games. You can practice League of Legends in losing matches; even badly lost matches (that somehow take 50 minutes)

But as has been said by Riot for years, you are responsible for what you do. You have the power to dominate the jungle matchup and not say anything, like you did. Congratulations on being a neutral/positive player. Yelling at them might seem cathartic, but it doesn't help the game. It certainly doesn't turn it into a "real" match of League of Legends.

And a quick response to the OP

You want to know the real reason people are toxic? It's very complex, listen closely; T h e y | d o n ' t | l i k e | t o | l o s e.

Well, they better suck it up. League is a zero-sum game. One team wins, one team loses. Nobody wins every game. Not Faker, not Bjerg, not QT. If they can't handle losing ~50% of their games, then maybe competitive activities aren't for them.

velraptured3 votes

I love when people who don't even play Ranked comment on something they don't know anything about..........

ModUlanopo5 votes

You want to know the real reason people are toxic? It's very complex, listen closely; T h e y | d o n ' t | l i k e | t o | l o s e.

Nobody I know likes to lose. Toxic people just can't handle it, though. That's the difference.

SkullDuggery205 votes

Different people handle different things differently. Some people don't care what is said in chat, and their feelings aren't easily hurt. Some people can't handle someone saying mean things to them in chat. To assume that one group is completely right, and one group is wrong, is completely misguided.

Your stubborn attempts to judge people for reacting to situations differently than you do is a character flaw. Your self-righteous attempts to justify an over the top banning system (in comparison to any other game) is only a reflection of who you are.

Most players don't use these boards, mostly because of people like you. OP put a lot of thought into his post, and your response is dismissive, and downright idiotic.

ModUlanopo5 votes

Your stubborn attempts to judge people for reacting to situations differently than you do is a character flaw. Your self-righteous attempts to justify an over the top banning system (in comparison to any other game) is only a reflection of who you are.

You're right that my perspective is a reflection of who I am. That's true of everyone. I do object to the characterization, however.

Here's the deal. League is not and never has been a life-or-death situation. We don't look at someone who flips the board when they're losing a chess match and excuse it as "the stress of competition."

SkullDuggery204 votes

Phil Hellmuth has never been kicked out of the World Series of Poker for talking shit about his opponents. Holding a moral standard is tricky, because where do you draw the line? It's inevitably a slippery slope, and it has become ridiculous in this game. You don't like what someone is saying? Mute them. Simple as that. There really is no need for escalated punishments and outright bans, except for extreme cases. Life doesn't work like this, and impressionable kids shouldn't have the expectation that anyone that is mean to them will be punished. In real life, if someone says "fuck you," you can say "fuck you" back, or just ignore them, and there will be no consequences to either party. For some reason, in this game people think that others should be punished for hurting their feelings. Literally nothing works like that outside of this game.

Flipping the board would be more comparable to trolling or int feeding, which I think is worthy of the banhammer.

ModUlanopo1 votes

There really is no need for escalated punishments and outright bans, except for extreme cases.

Maybe if you weren't so sensitive about what happens to accounts belonging to people you have never met this wouldn't be a problem for you and maybe you wouldn't engage in erasing the feelings and experiences of the people those toxic players affect.

In case you missed it, that was more than a little snark and was intended to illustrate the dangers of making a "people are too sensitive" argument about something that doesn't affect you.

SkullDuggery204 votes

I don't think you are as smart as you think you are. Your snarkiness is irrelevant and dumb, just like when you try it in real life.

Taking sides about feelings are exactly what I'm talking about. I advocate staying out of it, and allowing players to mute each other. You are the only one taking sides and declaring one person wrong, and the other a better person because of how they act in a video game. Maybe you missed the point.

You are a ridiculous human being. I've seen you on the boards for a while and I always have a good laugh at the unrealistic naive bullshit you post. I'm being straight to the point here, because you have shown the inability to understand simple conversation.

ModUlanopo3 votes

You are a ridiculous human being.

Personal attacks are a sign you've lost the argument. Just sayin'.

Regardless, it's obvious you don't want to have an actual conversation, so I'm going to wish you good evening.

SkullDuggery205 votes

Dismissiveness is also a sign you lost the argument, something you've done since the start of this "conversation."

You don't have a point. You just want to dismiss people who feel differently than you. It's a sign of a stupid person.

MadMad Sickness2 votes

{quoted}

Nobody I know likes to lose. Toxic people just can't handle it, though. That's the difference.

This. Just because you lose or are losing doesn't give you a right to be a jerk. Being a jerk only sinks you into the possibility of a loss and takes away the possibility of a comeback because you're legitimately distracting other players from making comeback plays.

Gozniz1 votes

But no one, not I or anyone here has even argued that it's "okay to be a jerk"? So why dismiss it on a point that I never made? It's not okay to be a jerk. The purpose of this post was solely to help you and others better understand who these "jerks" are and why they do what they do, because you may realize they are not all that bad of people.

MadMad Sickness1 votes

{quoted}

But no one, not I or anyone here has even argued that it's "okay to be a jerk"? So why dismiss it on a point that I never made? It's not okay to be a jerk. The purpose of this post was solely to help you and others better understand who these "jerks" are and why they do what they do, because you may realize they are not all that bad of people.

Oh I know that. But there is a psychological phenomenon where a person can change their habits and behavior based on their environment.

It happens with dogs too: for example, a trainer goes and trains a dog to be the perfect dog. However, when the dog goes back to it's owner it completely reverts back to it's old habits and becomes a mess again.

Sometimes, behavior is a result of certain conditioning caused by an environment. On here, bad habits develop because people are complacent about their own behaviors (they think they can do whatever they want, and so it escalates and escalates until it becomes destructive/self-destructive).

The only way to reverse it is to reverse the habits and reverse the conditioning in the environment where it is being produced: people need to change themselves and how they are in league if they want to continue playing the game. And this is completely independent of how they treat real people in real life and whether or not they are actually good people irl. Because, sometimes people forget that the other person on the other side of the screen is actually a real person with real emotions and decide to say mean and horrible things regardless of that fact. People think the screen that separates them protects them from any real retaliation, and so they take advantage of that to bully other players.

Punishments and bans serve as a wake-up call to your own behaviors. They serve the purpose of giving you a chance to "de-escalate" your behavior, regardless of how you are anywhere else.

Riot can't change you, but they can warn you and give you the chance to change yourself.

SipsLiberalTears1 votes

toxic players troll games all the time and never get banned but the second you respond they report you and bam fucking 2 week gay ban hammer while they continue to troll ...

Metropolox50s3 votes

Totally agree there is a difference between a toxic player and just a player frustrated at losing a game because of a team member(s) (trolls, feeders, int, etc). I mean who wouldn't get mad if a teemo top player is feeding the enemy top laner?

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

I read the entire thing and while you make valid points let me just state in most cases in game I am not a very nice person vs toxic players. If you're doing worse than I am with MY temper you're more than likely truly just genuinely toxic. You said you were sentenced the same, but I don't see any logs to prove that your perma after the 2 weeks wasn't warranted...

Rezlac1 votes

OP. Your previous post makes 0 sense to me. Somehow it seems you don't understand the main tactic against trolls is to ignore them.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

SipsLiberalTears2 votes

you make the point on your own people are free to fucking troll all day long but the second you say anything and they report you instafucking gay ban while they continue to troll with no consequences thanks for reaafuckingfirming everyones problems with this bullshit game....

Zëd Lęppelin1 votes

lol. Toxic people are pathetic and that's all there is to it. It's really not hard to just not press enter.

Magical Player1 votes

" Riot are out to treat every player like a repeat offender from the very first offense." Where as I can't say yes or no to that let me stretch it out a little bit Follow with me here Riots maximum punishment is id banning for the most extreme of cases, for the "normal" player being banned is the most extreme thing now lets say riot put on its totem pole of rules Now lets say go to the example a good guy has been good for 20+ years, and in one instance he snaps and kills another person. When the jury heres of his past good deeds do they outweigh the one instance he broke the rules? Generally no, you could say the norm is 1 bad deed is generally enough to get you punished

So back to riot Riot has this ingenious system to constantly warn players that their behavior is not wanted in game and is able to give a light reminder(chat restriction) or in severe cases a more punishing reminder(14 day- perma ban) Riot has set the rules of the game again "Don't be a dick" and is you break it lightly they give you a light punishment break it, like absolutely ignore it the hammer you with the harsh punishment

Now why this applies to why it seems like "riot treating everyone like a repeat offender" its not because they are, its because people are not lightly breaking the golden rule "don't be a dick" they're generally going far above what can be considered "normal"

As such they get punished with the only two options

"You want to know the real reason people are toxic? It's very complex, listen closely; T h e y | d o n ' t | l i k e | t o | l o s e."

I don't like to lose, yet I lose alot more than I should. Yet i'm not being punished?

The reason people are toxic isn't as simple as they don't like to lose and if it is then they should move on, since the norm is to win/lose 50% of your games In the entire history of league the avg has been 50%(i'm a smartass(5 lose 5 win))

Just some ramblings, hope they helped you in someway

SkullDuggery201 votes

The fact that you are considering mean chat to be comparable to murder is ridiculous and hyperbolic.

Also, courts do consider circumstance and past deeds. Those are the difference between first degree murder and manslaughter.

Your post is irrelevant and beyond the point of rational stupidity. You have to be completely misguided to believe anything you posted.

Magical Player1 votes

Yeah courts do take past actions into consideration as does riot the comparison im making is the highest form of punishment a normal user can obtain is that of a perma ban in real life its death penalty or life depending which you see worse. Both are in essence removing you from the community as you have broken the communal laws Riot does unban players and does give them chances to prove their self(riot support)

I'm making a comparison by no means do I believe that chat= murder but in terms of comparable punishment you chatting like a dick head= permaban//real life= life in prisonment

You may not agree with it but riot wants people not to be dick heads, law wants people not to kill eachother

you disagree with either the "community" removes you in some way

Escheton1 votes

It's not wise to get upset over losses in game where you lose half the time. Not losing half the time? You will be facing better opponents till you are.

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