Boards›Player Behavior

PSA: You did not get banned for "defending myself"

Eedat··63 votes·3,720 views

I've seen this crop up on the boards quite a few times where people claim they got banned for defending themselves from trolls/flamers/premades/etc. I can assure you that this is not the case. I want to explain the difference. Let me start off by stating a few things.

  1. I have been playing since the beginning of season 3. I have thousands of games under my belt. I've played enough to have every single champ unlocked and 20 rune pages. I have never had any form of punishment on my account. No bans, no chat restrictions, not even a warning.

  2. This post will contain strong language. This is a warning. That being said, its nothing you haven't already heard while playing LoL or just using the internet in general.

  • "So Eedat, how do you deal with these people and not get banned?"

Well when I have a straight up troll/feeder on my team, I tend to tell them "stop being a douche" or "what an asshole" or maybe even a good old "fuck off". I say I do this to a good 80% of the ones I encounter. The other 20% are the ones I think are just heavily tilted and can be brought back.

  • !!??!!?!?!?!?! "BUT WHY DONT YOU GET BANNED WHEN I DID?!? YOU FLAMED THEM!!!"

You see, here is the difference. After I say one thing to them, I mute them. I do not acknowledge them ever again. The difference between me and you is that you continued to berate them the entire game. You didnt stop at just saying one thing. You spent the next twenty minutes typing paragraphs of insults. Instead of dealing with the flamer, you became one yourself. You lowered yourself to the same level as them and therefore will be punished as such.

Instead of muting them like I do, you decided to to take time out of the rest of the game to call them a "worthless pos", "garbage feeder", "waste of life", "/all report x9 this bitch", etc. Maybe you even really lost it and told them "kys". Your lack of self control is what got you banned.

That being said, I will concede the way I deal with them technically is considered toxic. Here's the thing that most people dont understand. Unless you go off and say something to get automatically flagged (I.E. kys, homophobic/racial slurs, etc), there is a real person that reviews the case. They will see that 0/14/2 feeder that is flaming everyone then see my ONE comment and most likely give me a low toxicity rating, if any at all, because I limited it to just one response. These Rioters are actual people that can make sense of a situation and dont just look at the one line I said and nothing else. They aren't some heartless drone that is incapable of relating.

This is another scenario I would like to address that I see a lot. I see someone either actively or passive aggressively antagonizes a player until the person loses their cool and snaps back. Do you actively provoke your teammates by doing stuff like walking into their lane to take their farm for no reason or stealing away a jungle camp they were clearing? Do you drop passive-aggressive comments like "top has 60 farm at 20 minutes lol" or "our bot lane is 0/5" or "not worth trying to help this mid"? Although technically you could just be stating a fact, we all know the only reason you're pointing it out is to antagonize them. Do you then use them snapping back as an excuse to "defend yourself"? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you deserved your ban. That isnt "defending myself". You actively set up the situation. You went out of your way to bait an aggressive response. Dont pretend to be an angel thats free of fault. We arent children that are incapable of seeing what you did.

  • "But why doesnt the other person get banned too then?!?!??!"

They are guilty, just as you are. The difference is if they behave in all their other games and only lost their cool in one game out of the last 50, they wont get a ban. If they don't, they are eligible for punishment as well. You, on the other hand, probably do this quite frequently for the sake of "self-defense". That is why you got banned and they didnt.

To summarize, dont spend the entire game flaming a feeder/troll or dont actively bait out aggression for an excuse to "defend myself" and you won't get banned. If you fail to do so, dont be surprised by the consequences.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Best of luck to you on the Rift.

97 Comments

Blade Runner18 votes

I got banned for 'flaming' a friend that I know IRL in a non-toxic context. However Riot doesn't support 'toxic' relationships.

Im pretty sure we all have that friend that calls you d*ckhead and you answer him with a 'kys', and he's still your best friend. :)

Chermorg22 votes

I actually don't tell my friends to kill themselves.

Zarkmar11 votes

I do, so what's your point.

BeatzBoyFTW5 votes

He didn't get banned.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/QtyVvuAU-fix-your-banning-system-please

You did.

MonkeyMadness2 votes

I have a good friend and we tell each other this all the time. TBH, the reason we do is because of the asshat culture created around the term by this very game. So ya, keep on virtue signalling from atop your moral high ground.

AninLegions7772 votes

Except kys means kiss in danish.

Schoenberg3 votes

Never knew that, haha... And in that case I know upwards of 20 folks who are all marvelous people in my opinion who should all be banned. Do we say it to other folks or ever flame anyone? No. Do we occasionally say things like 'kys' to each other JOKINGLY? Yes.

Telephone Booth3 votes

{quoted}

I got banned for 'flaming' a friend that I know IRL in a non-toxic context. However Riot doesn't support 'toxic' relationships.

Im pretty sure we all have that friend that calls you d*ckhead and you answer him with a 'kys', and he's still your best friend. :)

Yeah I do too, but we aren't dumb enough to do it in chat in a game with an automated chat moderation system. That would be reckless and self destructive. We prefer to destroy eachother over voice, not ourselves over league chat.

Zarkmar4 votes

It's not about being dumb, not everyone knows there's such a system in place.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

It's not about being dumb, not everyone knows there's such a system in place.

Yeah that's true, but in my opinion willfull ignorance is dumb. You have every opportunity when you play this game to go read the rules on what will get you banned. Choosing not to, is ignorant and I'm sorry but, I think it's kind of dumb :/

Schoenberg2 votes

I imagine the real reason they ban folks for that is due to the shit someone who was actually flaming could pull. "Oh yeah, that guy is my friend."Opens up a bit of a floodgate that I don't think they can really deal with to my knowledge. Still is fucking stupid they do it though.

The Ecdysiast6 votes

The solution is not to punish people for something that isn't a problem.

There is a mute function. If you can't handle what people say online, you shouldn't be online at all. Let alone the most toxic video game available.

Riot needs to recognize that the players will say what they will in the heat of a game, and that they should not be punished for it.

ModUlanopo7 votes

{quoted}

The solution is not to punish people for something that isn't a problem.

There is a mute function. If you can't handle what people say online, you shouldn't be online at all. Let alone the most toxic video game available.

Riot needs to recognize that the players will say what they will in the heat of a game, and that they should not be punished for it.

It's okay to have this opinion. Just know that it isn't compatible with Riot's policies or with what the community wants.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

Riot's policies aren't specific regarding what counts as toxic behavior, so anything you say is fair game. Unfortunately, whether you're punished or not is entirely up to the discretion of the players who take anonymous chat seriously.

Sticks and stones may break bones, but words from strangers behind keyboards shouldn't hurt you.

ModUlanopo7 votes

{quoted}

Sticks and stones may break bones, but words from strangers behind keyboards shouldn't hurt you.

You're making an "argument from stoicism". That's where you suggest the world would be a better place if people were tougher. There are a couple of problems with this.

First, you're making the unwarranted assumption that "strength" is the issue here. This is a video game played by people for fun. Players are no more required to tolerate toxicity than they are required to sit next to someone who hasn't bathed in a month. In this way, people who are rude or offensive drive away other players, which damages Riot's business.

Also, you're arguing that other people have to change themselves to accommodate toxicity, when rather the opposite is true. It is in the nature of civilization to find a way for people to avoid bashing in each other's skulls. Cultural mores regulating behavior are a key component of this, as is the social sanction triggered by breaking them. In League's case, that boils down to "don't do these things".

Collaterally, I generally find most people haven't really considered the full ramifications of the "let people be as toxic as they want" policy they're proposing. That's a recipe for anarchy, something that never ends well.

The Ecdysiast4 votes

You get put on a flight next to someone who hasn't bathed in a month, you're required to do so. This game is one of many flights you can take. Warframe and Team Fortress are also free.

I'm not arguing for anyone to change themselves. I'm arguing for players with glass bones and paper skin to take the 2 seconds to hold tab and click the little speaker icon next to the other player's name.

"Don't do these things," and, "don't say these things," are very, very different requests. You're lumping them together into the same punishment, which is completely nonsensical. You have the power to completely remove speech you perceive as toxic with the click of a button, so there's no reason people should be banned from the game just because you disagree with them. You don't, however, have the ability to completely or even partially remove/replace an ally who is gone/intentionally feeding or an enemy who is scripting. In that case, then Riot does have reason to ban the player.

ModUlanopo6 votes

{quoted}

You get put on a flight next to someone who hasn't bathed in a month, you're required to do so. This game is one of many flights you can take. Warframe and Team Fortress are also free.

You can get kicked off an airline for smelling bad.

I'm not arguing for anyone to change themselves. I'm arguing for players with glass bones and paper skin to take the 2 seconds to hold tab and click the little speaker icon next to the other player's name.

Well, maybe if you weren't so triggered by other people's common-sense expectations for what constitutes acceptable behavior in a video game, your life would be better.

See what I did there? It's easy to say that other people are weak and it's a cheap argument. You should stop making it.

"Don't do these things," and, "don't say these things," are very, very different requests. You're lumping them together into the same punishment, which is completely nonsensical.

Actually, the structure of the punishment volcano is the byproduct of some fairly intensive research. Turns out that people respond to being punished, not to specific punishments. Put another way, the recidivism rate is independent of type of punishment.

You have the power to completely remove speech you perceive as toxic with the click of a button, so there's no reason people should be banned from the game just because you disagree with them.

That button stops further damage. It does not undo damage already done. That button is also there for my protection, not as a justification for other people to be as rancid as possible.

Now, before you start bleating about what constitutes "damage", please remember that it's not incumbent on any customer to tolerate anything. Back when people were allowed to smoke in restaurants here in Michigan, there were plenty of times where I stopped going to places where smokers were allowed in the non-smoking section.

Toxic people drive away business, therefore Riot has ample justification to ban them.

You don't, however, have the ability to completely or even partially remove/replace an ally who is gone/intentionally feeding or an enemy who is scripting. In that case, then Riot does have reason to ban the player.

It's worth noting that Intentional Feeding and scripting result in escalated bans starting at 14-days, but also including instant permas.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

You said next to, so I rightfully assumed you meant they only smell bad enough for their immediate neighbor to smell them.

You're blinded by the fact Riot wrongfully punishes players for what is common speech among competitive video games. No you, won't find "toxicity" in games like Warframe and TERA, because those games are not competitive and if someone else messes up, your experience is not ruined for it.

Your smoker example is a case of you changing your behavior because you did not like what other patrons were doing, which I stressed is not what I am asking for. If it were possible for you to be completely immune to the effects of smoking after seeing that there is someone with a cigarette, then you could do that instead of leaving. However, it is quite possible for you to mute a player after just one message from them, instead of leaving the game.

I'd also like to see some evidence that toxic players actually drive away other players. And no, evidence of a store in person does not in any way equate to the video game world. The study needs to have been done with video games as the platform, and with chat as the sole variable, since I know for a fact people leave games because of cheating and the like.

Kloqdq4 votes

You're blinded by the fact Riot wrongfully punishes players for what is common speech among competitive video games.

Some guy says fuck off, than you (just an example) proceed to hound him, tell him his a trash, he should uninstall, that he should get reported x9 and that he should go kill himself. Yeah, clearly he has been wrongly punished. I mean that guy told me to fuck off and all you did was defend yourself. You do get players that feed, are equally toxic, but fuck them? Why sink to their level because all your doing is wasting your time with them. They are basically getting exactly what they want from you and you are "defending" yourself, but your no better than that guy now. It really don't matter what the context is, don't sink to their level. I've actually had a guy sit in fountain and look up everything regarding me and just being a general creep. Did I tell him to kill himself? No, I just told him to fuck off and reported him hard along with everyone else. Don't sink to their level because THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.

Your smoker example is a case of you changing your behavior because you did not like what other patrons were doing, which I stressed is not what I am asking for. If it were possible for you to be completely immune to the effects of smoking after seeing that there is someone with a cigarette, then you could do that instead of leaving. However, it is quite possible for you to mute a player after just one message from them, instead of leaving the game.

He can see this restaurant is smoker friendly before he walks in, he can avoid in going in before he is subject to that. X player is not that bad at first but then he becomes a dick very quickly. You were already subject to the trash and you cannot react to it. It still did damage. Sometimes you just need to not mute because people may change their tune during the game as well and actually offer advice in chat. There is a variety of reasons why you may not mute. Also important to note that if you are being a general dick, you are ruining the game for 9 other players. Yes, even the enemy. No one likes a toxic guy that ruins a game, so he should get punished. Typically if they are being toxic in chat, that carries into their gameplay because the two go hand in hand.

I'd also like to see some evidence that toxic players actually drive away other players.

You just started playing league, you are brand new. You are solo, no friends to play with. You aren't sure how to play yet and just getting used to things. Then all of a sudden in your first handful of games you have children belittle you and take trash. Tell you to end your life, that you are trash and the worst player on the planet. You are brand new so you aren't a pro or anything but you are forced to sit through this kind of shit multiple games in a row. Typically these ragers make new accounts and take their toxicity to new players as well. As a new player would you like to sit through an endless possible amount of games where you have horrible, horrible people trashing you and shit? Fuck no, you would leave and play something less. You don't have to sit through that trash! You are right we need a real study on this, but I think the reality of it is pretty easy to understand.

since I know for a fact people leave games because of cheating and the like.

People leave for a variety of reasons. Toxicity is one of those reasons.

Fork xD1 votes

Why are all of your arguments "what ifs"? They are irrelevant. What if I ran riot and all of you snowflakes were banned instead ( Oh wait i don't so what was the point in bringing it up)?

Kloqdq1 votes

I use examples to help explain my points, I then back up my example. It starts as a "what if" to give you an idea of what I am trying to say.

Want a TLDR from above?

People don't like dicks. People irl will actually punch you if you are being a dick. Don't be a dick in game because if you do it IRL someone will knock your lights out. Riot also has all the rights to do whatever they like with their game. Things that make the community happy are something they are more likely to go for because happy customers = better business.

Fork xD1 votes

Except it also ends with a what if which defeats the purpose of "helping us understand" ( not that I believe your ideas went above anybodies head ). Also, if you don't like what I am saying in real life, it should be your right to tell me im wrong, back up your point with facts, and go from there. In no way would you have the right to hit me ( probably worst what if logic you could have used to make my point (" dick or not")) and you should probably be ready to get hit back 😊. With that being said it was fun reading your childish attempt at a tough guy ego over the internet babe.

Kloqdq2 votes

People really don't care. I grew up in a small town and talking like an asshole gets you punched, regardless if it's right or not.

You are also a guy who got banned recently and just started spamming boards with pointless posts like this so I can tell arguing with you is pretty much a waste of time.

Examples are used to reinforce a person point and help explain it. It is a what if, but it is a way for some people to understand things.

Like please, explain to me the "what if's here because you use this a lot but you never back up what is a 'what if". You just state something is a what if and that's it. No argument, no points, nothing. It's actually pretty worthless of a point and devalues any point you try to make.

Fork xD1 votes

Because you/riot can contemplate the entire communities viewpoints and morals efficiently and accurately enough to speak for them..... Mmk

General Esdeath 5 votes

BUT BUT IF I MUTE THEM HOW WILL I CALL THEM A RACIAL SLUR?!?

Zarkmar4 votes

See, that's where you're wrong.

The guy was talking smack to my duo because he didn't like his build. He tried telling him how to play so I told him. "He mains j4" "d/w about it" Yet he kept talking trash so I said that next. "kys" "Stop talking trash" Then I ignored him for the rest of the game even tho he kept being toxic.

And voila! I got banned 14 days. My kys has the same impact your fuck off has, legit no difference. That automatic banning system is flawed and you know it. It can easily take things out of context and ban the wrong person.

Eedat8 votes

Uh, no. I specifically mentioned that. You didnt read the whole thing apparently.

Unless you go off and say something to get automatically flagged (I.E. kys, homophobic/racial slurs, etc), , there is a real person that reviews the case.

Fork xD1 votes

{quoted}

Uh, no. I specifically mentioned that. You didnt read the whole thing apparently.

I'm not sure how you are confused. The argument is that there is in fact nobody present even in report cases where there should be. You believe the system works as specified and that it is just while we do not. We ( or at least I ) respect your opinion but it is not backed by proof and is still only your opinion. My specific point toward you was that you are wrong about how the system works. You know how it should work but know nothing concrete about if and why it does or doesn't.

The other poster also has a point with context which is something you lack in argument to begin with.

Arakk011 votes

{quoted}

Uh, no. I specifically mentioned that. You didnt read the whole thing apparently.

Blatant lie.

Eedat3 votes

I literally quoted it

Sqkerg1 votes

ctrl+f is hard man

Volgaria6 votes

You told someone to kill themselves. that is literally not the same as telling someone to fuck off. Telling someone to kill themselves over a GAME, joking or not, is fucked up.

Zarkmar4 votes

It's an expression. If you can't understand that I'm not actually trying to make him kill himself there's no point in arguing with you.

hurrïcane kat3 votes

Ohhh, i get it. you've probably never seen the effects of what someone saying 'kys' means to people. There are numerous posts about the psycologies of trolls and things like that. Saying 'kys' to some people might actually get them killed. Saying 'fuck off' is a lot different, it wouldn't get taken to heart like saying 'kys' would.

Zarkmar3 votes

Oh I get it, you're just assuming shit about me even tho you don't know me at all. I've been bullied a lot when I was in school, I know what words can do.

In this case, the guy is being hella toxic. Do you seriously think telling him to fuck off in a rude manner will get him to shoot himself. There are situations where telling someone kys would be extremely bad and I can see it. But don't tell me trolls and toxic people don't have thick skins because that's simply wrong. If you feel confident enough to talk shit you're not gonna be affected if the very guy you're talking shit to tells you to kys.

Volgaria3 votes

Well you need to find a new expression, its fucked up. If someone said "I hope you get raped" and is like CHILL DAWG JUST AN EXPRESSION, is that fine? Yeah but you probably don't mean it, right? So its totally fine

Zarkmar3 votes

I'm just gonna stop arguing with snowflakes, it's pointless. Millennials just love to be offended.

Volgaria4 votes

You are the one butt hurt because big bad old rito won't let you tell little kids to kill themselves. Cause "kill yourself" is an expression, yeah

Fork xD2 votes

As you respond in anger... cough snowflake millennial cough

Sqkerg3 votes

So let me get this straight, you're saying that because of your perception of the syntax of his sentence, you factually state that he is angry, and because you somehow know that he is angry, you also know that he was born in the 90s?

You see where this logic falls flat?

Fork xD1 votes

Or I'm taking a generation mindset, considering him part of that mindset (based on his the syntax of his comment which reflects personal insight and reflection) and making my argument against that point of view.

Not only this but you missed the point of my statement which was humor by shedding light on his hypocritical manner ( as with yours).

Volgaria4 votes

Absolutely true, I'm the same way, I've played thousands of games, I have played enough to have all the champs. I've never had any type of ban or restriction. I've called people an asshole, told them to fuck off, suck a dick, etc. But I usually do it once, get it out of my system and continue with my life. That also doesn't happen very often. But if you continuously harass someone or keep fighting you are going to get banned.

SephAgro4 votes

Wrong. You have the right to not only defend yourself, but defend yourself effectively. If it takes a little longer than a simple "fuck you" to restore your pride, then that's what it takes to defend yourself. You are one step above the "im morally superior and neutral and you should just take the punch" posts we see often, but not much better.

The doctrine of self defense is very simple. The provocateur is completely at fault and the victim has a right to use up to lethal force to defend himself.

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Um... Lethal force?

Remember this is ingame chat.

SephAgro2 votes

hurr durr what is a metaphor

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

Here ya go. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Btw, it is customary in the English Language to start sentences with a capital letter, not "hurr durr".

SephAgro1 votes

hurr durr so you do understand metaphor. im still convinced a vegetable given sentience by a strange radiation leak probably has more intelligence than you

Ben SwoIo3 votes

I don't agree with a lot of what you posted here. Seems all holier than thou with that "just mute them and move on or you deserve to be punished" garbage. I'm not saying go and get into an insult / cursing match with people, but Riot should definitely take into account who began the toxic behavior. If you're going to be punished for being "toxic" for defending yourself, then the individual who began the whole ordeal should receive a much more harsh punishment. Sometimes I feel like the people who defend themselves get it worse from their team mates and Riot as opposed to the actual toxic individual who just now sits back and plays victim. It's stupid. Like I said, I'm not advocating fire with fire, but there should be a triple punishment for those who cause others to feel extremely negative, especially to the point to where it makes them toxic them self.

Fork xD1 votes

This type of thinking is logical and that is why you don't see it implemented in this game.

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