Ran and Experiment on Report System. Results not Surprising, System is Biased and has Flaws.

DunBanieMyAnnie··9 votes·3,434 views

TL:DR Riots report system only punishes based off chat logs. It claims to be fair and asks players never to retaliate but only to mute people and report them, however it does not hand out punishments equally. Actions in game can physically ruin the game and you cannot prevent that loss, chat can tilt people but CAN be fixed by muting, however riot punishes chat but does not punish trolls. Something doesn't add up. I present a couple of options to mitigate this.

I do care about the issue and would love for the community to improve, as this is probably the only game where I've seen the trolls actually have the upper hand and are able to inflict punishment on good players with little to no consequence. It also promotes a "lets report so and so" environment just like how everyone in the real world tries to sue each other.

So, as someone who is/was utterly disgusted with Riots "chat scanning auto report bot" because it hardly gets rid of trolls and punishes good people. I understand it benefits riot not to have a tribunal where players decide whats best for the community and riot moderates it but rather replace a human interaction with a piece of code which they hardly have to oversee, but I'm not sure how that's best for or even helps the players. If an equal amount of resources from the cost savings was devoted to player issues Riot please feel free to let me know, in which case the return on your investment has not broken even yet.

However, despite all of this I'm a person of reason so even though I was pissed, when talking to some friends they wanted to try some impartial experiments I figured it might be a good idea Note: I did not participate in any of the games only looked at the data after. So no use in bashing me for ruining "normal" for random people I didn't order, execute or encourage it, just examined the results. Feel free to point out any flaws in the design or defend Riot if you want.

Three accounts were created

Account A: Lets call this the FLAMER - This account always played exceptionally well in game but said a lot of nasty things in chat. Account B: Troll -This account never said anything negative in chat, although did occasionally claim to be trolling or not care but would follow up by later saying they are not trolling Account C: Neutral Party

During each of the games the above scenarios would take place, Account B would run it down mid, build troll builds, intentionally feed or go to the wrong lanes, but was silent. Account A would get mad at account B. At the end of the game--not every game because it would diminish the report effectiveness account C would report one or both of the players-equal amount of reports over the total duration, and would encourage people to actively report the troll. Note that this was a biased hypothesis against the troll because I really wanted to stress test the system. Now I'm happy to provide all of the data for each game etc...but, basically what happened was by the end of 50 games,

Account A: received multiple reports and account bans, finally was perma-banned Account B: Absolutely NOTHING. Account C: Nothing-as expected.

There is a plausibility Account B would go straight to perma-ban or ban without warnings because a chat ban wouldn't have harmed them, but if that scenario exists 50 games seems a long time to not have a punishment. Now, during the games while account A had toxic chat, any player could have muted account A, the overall impact would be small but would negatively affect the player experience by prohibiting communication which can be useful in-game to coordinate strategy if used effectively, however Riot has probably determined this is negligible in random solo-q type games because players rarely can develop a good enough relationship to effectively use it, which is why I suspect they allow players to play with chat bans, which I'd hope they wouldn't do if the data showed that players with chat ban substantially lose more often from lack of communication. So Account A could have been muted and would not have affected the game. Player B did not say anything in chat, but there was no way to mitigate or "mute" the actions of a troll. There is no way to make it so their deaths don't negatively affect your team. There are likely three options. A) Ignore the troll- this may work if they get tired of trolling but it has no tangible effect and leaves it entirely up to the other player. Maybe you playing will inspire them to try, maybe not. You will lose LP for the loss but can report the troll hoping to clean up the community B) Try to reason with the troll via chat, be mindful that anything you say can and will be used against you to the fullest extent of the chat bot which scans logs. There can be a very fine line of what riot deems is aggressive towards an individual, and showing anger to someone wasting your time will likely get you reported for escalating the situation

Here I don't see a winning situation, if the report system did anything then option A would be a consolation to player C and A who were negatively affected by player B, but since it doesn't they lose in both scenarios.

Now in conclusion I FULLY understand why it's VERY VERY hard to report trolls and have any sort of CODE detect it. So I present 2 solutions to be pragmatic and practical.

Option A) Its nifty that Riot has a record feature. Now I know they cant possible save every single game that's out there, but if a game is flagged for multiple reports of trolling why not capture it? Why not put the decision BACK in the hands of the community or have a moderator examine it. In this case hand out a VERY HARSH punishment to demonstrate this behavior will NOT be tolerated, and the punishment can be harsher because it required riots human resources to enforce it instead of a system. Due to the new found stigma of reports for actions and trolling ACTUALLY having an impact it will quickly deter players, as currently I've seen many trolls say go ahead report me I've said nothing wrong and the system can't tell I'm a troll (or something similar). The only thing the system does detect is idling or AFK but it doesn't work if the person moves around in base every 30 seconds to crack the simple idle code.

Option B) Adjust the LP +/- according to the performance of the player! Now again I understand sometimes you have a case where someone truely has bad stats and they are a team player etc...well that's lovely but chances are its a fluke if they are ranking up solely by that game after game, Have a +/- 5 LP for performance. If I lose and I'm flawless on the game, give me only -10 LP and a troll who gives up, give them -20. Make them feel the wrath of their decisions more than those you've stuck them in the pot with. I understand riot wants there to be a shared risk/reward, and there is. Losing 10 LP still sucks, so theres still plenty of incentive to work together and not alone. Alternatively, if someone wins and is the carry give them +25 instead of +20 and give the troll they carried +15 instead of +20. This system can scale with your ELO standard LP awarded and also can scale with how bad you troll... Say you were only slightly better than everyone, maybe you only get +1 added to your score. If you were slightly worse? only -1 from your base. This would also work better than having to win multiple games in order to see a change in your ELO.

Bonus Option C) Stop using the stupid chat scanner to report people from games where its a human response to be angry because your system is ineffective and you give them no solution or outlet. Bring back the tribunal where i know many people went years with no reprimand, yet were banned through the scan bot.

44 Comments

Riot Tantram18 votes

Riots report system only punishes based off chat logs

This is not accurate. Our systems penalize for harassment, intentional feeding, trolling, and AFKing.

However, it is much harder to detect intentional feeding or trolling. The obvious response most people think of is to just penalize people who have a poor KDA. The problem with that is I can guarantee you I could go through each and every players' match history and find multiple games that would match this criteria, and the person was just having a poor game. Man, it would suck to get banned when you're already tilted off the face of the earth for having a poor game.

Most of the possible solutions you outline, involve manual review. This just isn't possible given the large number of games. It would suffer from the same problems Tribunal had, which is why it was taken offline. The tribunal couldn't get through cases fast enough, and was eventually backed up with years of data needing to be reviewed. This resulted in players either never being addressed, or being penalized for something they had no memory of that happened a year ago. This pertains to your option A and option C.

Adjusting the LP of players according to performance has a whole host of problems. Why would you ever want to play that team enabling tank or initiator? You may be hard carrying the team, but you are going to lose more LP because your KDA isn't as good. As a support, why wouldn't I only play Brand or Vel'Koz? I'm sure to have a better KDA.

That being said, we are constantly updating our systems, we aren't just letting them run and calling it a day. We don't post it in the patch notes, but we are constantly deploying. It's frustrating when you lose games, it's even more frustrating when you lose a game where you played well (win lane lose game, am I right?).

HalcyonDweller3 votes

Are you legitimately the Tantram? Because impersonating a Rioter is a bannable offense... And Riot and the Moderators will catch you quickly if you're not legit.

You should probably change that summoner name, either make it red or get a different name.

Void Nargacuga1 votes

It's not Tantram. An impersonator definitely.

RallerenP1 votes

But I thought it was impossible to have "Riot" in your name, unless you actually were a Rioter?

Not claiming that he is the real Tantram, but i'm really confused.

Deep Terror Nami4 votes

We had it confirmed by player support as Tantram. I don't know why he chose to post on this account, but it's legit. You actually have to request Riot be added to your name internally to get that.

RiotRiot Tantram2 votes

Tis me. Just on another account.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

Why'd you choose the name Tantram? Feels ironic, or fitting, for what you do here.

RiotRiot Tantram3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=daRJEKZw,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-07T21:01:22.491+0000)

Why'd you choose the name Tantram? Feels ironic, or fitting, for what you do here.

I mained a Savage on DAoC .. seemed fitting.

l2 4 G 31 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=daRJEKZw,comment-id=00020000000000010000,timestamp=2017-08-07T20:46:39.577+0000)

Tis me. Just on another account.

So your Red Riot account is on NA, but you have an EU account as well...?!?!

HMMM, CONFLICT OF INTEREST!!! RITO PL0X BAN PLZ

huehuehue

ModPeriscope1 votes

Oh man... I hit the report button on you. My bad. Don't smite me plz.

Deep Terror Nami3 votes

That's probably how it got noticed, which is actually a good thing :3

Void Nargacuga1 votes

Well alrighty then. It just seemed weird was all.

Thanks for letting me know.

Azure Hamster1 votes

{quoted}

Are you legitimately the Tantram? Because impersonating a Rioter is a bannable offense... And Riot and the Moderators will catch you quickly if you're not legit.

You should probably change that summoner name, either make it red or get a different name.

Interestingly it looks like something the real guy would say. Maybe he was accidentally logged in with one of his smurfs for beating on Bronze-level noobs? ;)

Caitlyn

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Regardless of whether or not it is what Tantram would say, it is not okay to impersonate Rioters. This person is neither privy to, nor accountable for Riot's policies regarding boards interactions with players, and as such they could spread misinformation and hurt Riot's reputation.

It goes against the rules, and poses a danger to Riot's reputation.

Azure Hamster1 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of whether or not it is what Tantram would say, it is not okay to impersonate Rioters. This person is neither privy to, nor accountable for Riot's policies regarding boards interactions with players, and as such they could spread misinformation and hurt Riot's reputation.

It goes against the rules, and poses a danger to Riot's reputation.

Yup.

Caitlyn

DunBanieMyAnnie3 votes

Even if you aren't the real "RiotTrantrum" your points are valid. I understand the downside of manual review, however, how do you detect trolls? If there isn't a way to filter out games with 5 reports 0-16 like stats that is manageable to review, Riot has one of the worst trolling problems imaginable!!

First off, What if this only applied to level 30 or ranked games? If punishments are harsh is it really that true you couldn't get rid of the black and white cases quicker and faster than it takes to level to 30? I understand the gray area is always hard to punish and its why Riot takes a softer stance on questionable cases.

Secondly, As far as adjust LP based on performance-you're telling me there isn't math to analyze and understand relative tank situations, assists, objective contribution, average win rate, and make a determination via the data? I say hogwash, yes it may take someone with a PhD or Masters in math, but its hardly impossible. Run a simulation, put it on test realms, make it a soft system at first which doesn't give real punishments, but allows feedback into the validity of cases. Check a random sampling of said cases, tweak and adjust...same can be done with option C. All of a sudden people think there's a point to trying when playing with a troll-less rage and more fun. I'm sure the time your support team spends responding to player inquiries about why their account was banned could be better spent making them never reach that state :)

Lastly, I've hardly ever seen a team hard carry with a tank going 0-15-0 where the tank was the reason they won....

Just trying to think of the players and reasonable steps towards a solution.

Telephone Booth1 votes

I think your whole premise of trolls being so out of control Is wrong. I can't remember the last time I had a legit troll in my game.

DunBanieMyAnnie1 votes

I'd say I see trolling or "retaliation trolling" (player 2 yells at player 1, player one says okay fine then i'll stop trying/afk/feed etc) in somewhere between 10-20% of games varying from carry-able to debilitating. Sure one in 5 or 10 isn't every game, but that's enough to want to see change.

I'm not undermining the complexity of the problem Riot faces, but I do think they could do more towards providing a transparent solution or utilize community help where they cant seem to accommodate it. maTc had a WONDERFUL idea of making contributions to the tribunal a task and associated with honor/rewards. I hope @RiotTantram sees that :)

l2 4 G 33 votes

{quoted} The tribunal couldn't get through cases fast enough, and was eventually backed up with years of data needing to be reviewed. This resulted in players either never being addressed, or being penalized for something they had no memory of that happened a year ago.

Not our problem.

Maybe Riot should find a way to better organize the cases that the tribunals review, and/or give people more incentive for participating IN the Tribunals in the first place, instead of just being lazy and making the system automated and giving everyone honor level 3 just for playing long enough.

Perhaps they could have tied the two systems together, in fact, instead of creating this monstrous mess of bullshit?

ie you want honor level 3+? You better participate in some tribunals and help us get rid of these toxic players and trolls. THAT'S something that's honorable. Muting all so that you can pretend there IS no bullshit to deal with is not honorable...it's cowardice...you should have to actually HELP the community to earn these rewards...not just get a participation ribbon for playing enough games and keeping your mouth shut like a good little boy/girl.

They literally state that the PLAYERS should decide what is acceptable, and what is not...what is toxic, and what is not...not a fucking automated bot.

They are quite literally just being lazy, and offering us bullshit instead of actually fixing problems.

DunBanieMyAnnie2 votes

{quoted} "There is a plausibility Account B would go straight to perma-ban or ban without warnings because a chat ban wouldn't have harmed them, but if that scenario exists 50 games seems a long time to not have a punishment."

Also I did mention it, but isn't it strange that an account actively trying to get punished is not punished? I would question the effectiveness of the system then.

Cavesloth1 votes

What about the suggestion that everyone who reported a player who gets punished gets a notification? At the very least it would make players have a bit more faith in the system instead of feeling like reports don't work because they rarely see a notification. And for those that don't want to get spammed or bothered with notifications there could be a button to opt out like e-sports notifications. Honestly I can't see a downside to this, other than it being a bit of work for the coders.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

I like how you presented this. I came to this thread expecting to see, "I ran an experiment and have concluded that Riot sucks, lol!"

But I'm pleasantly surprised to see that you presented a problem / hypothesis, tested and proved it, and then presented analysis and solutions. Are you by any chance a scientist? Because this was written refreshingly like a thesis. S+ job amigo!

  1. On how good the system is at its job: I completely agree, the system currently is very good at punishing toxic players while it is terrible at punishing the players who troll them. I do, however, disagree with removing the existing system. It should still punish toxic chat, because that is still a problem regardless of trolling.

  2. On why the tribunal was removed: I really like the point that you have made that the reasons for the tribunal being removed (too many cases to process) is mitigated now that many cases of toxic chat are already handled by the automated system.

  3. On bringing the tribunal back: In addition to that I really like the idea of bringing the tribunal back solely for the cases of reported trolls. I believe that it could save Riot a lot of time and give them a much more effective way to handle that sort of thing. And if Riot is worried about accuracy, they could always apply some level of AI / machine learning to monitor the tribunal judgements and alert Rioters / give them the final say when it comes to handing out punishment. I believe that this system of filtering cases down as much as possible before they go to Rioters would be the best way to get accuracy out of existing and past systems of punishment, while still saving Rioters the most time. It's possible that Reporting and tribuning could become part of the same process, where a player is reported, then after enough times the tribunal steps in and does all the prep-work of analyzing the games and the player's behavior, then it gets handed to an AI or a Rioter to sift through and determine the best course of action.

DunBanieMyAnnie1 votes

Thanks for the kind words :) I tried to make it objective....and yes I was a scientist in a former life :)

archerno13 votes

A) impossible

B) Easily abused

C) Preposterous: If its human to insult others, its human to troll too. Good people dont rage at teammates

I suck at Jhin3 votes

Good people don't play this game...

YerroFever3 votes

This is actually a really inaccurate conclusion for judging the punishment system. Your three accounts:

  1. Verbal abuse is VERY easy to detect thus easy to punish.

  2. Trolling/inting are harder to detect because you can't just simply go by KDA or build. You have to observe the game and this takes time. This is why you probably didn't get punished at the same rate. You need people to sit there and watch your games vs being able to just pick out flagged language.

  3. I appreciate that you did a control account trial. (Not being sarcastic at all, just in case that doesn't come across.)

The flaw isn't in your methodology but the flaw is in the conclusion you draw. If in like 3 months a permaban comes down on account 2, then the problem with the system is that it is slow.

DunBanieMyAnnie2 votes

YerroFever please see my comment above, I don't think we're far off and I agree with your points--great point on the time it may take for a response.

The point is that verbal abuse may be easier to detect but technically affects the outcome of the game SUBSTANTIALLY less if all precautions to ignore it are taken. We're splitting hairs on your conclusion, IF that were to happen but took a few months I would 100% agree its working but way too slow, but if it doesn't ever get a ban, then what would you say? Would you then agree its not effective?

YerroFever2 votes

{quoted}

YerroFever please see my comment above, I don't think we're far off and I agree with your points--great point on the time it may take for a response.

The point is that verbal abuse may be easier to detect but technically affects the outcome of the game SUBSTANTIALLY less if all precautions to ignore it are taken. We're splitting hairs on your conclusion, IF that were to happen but took a few months I would 100% agree its working but way too slow, but if it doesn't ever get a ban, then what would you say? Would you then agree its not effective?

There is also another factor that isn't fully accounted for in your experiment. With only playing 50 games and then stopping and drawing a conclusion at the end of those 50 games is that Riot has specifically stated that their punishment models are based on the hopes of reform.

If you got a punishment for those first 50 games and then played another 50 games the same way and got another punishment, then I would say it would appear that the system is just slow.

If you got a punishment after those first 50 games and then played another 50 games the same way without getting any sort of punishment, then I would say the system fails to punish trolls.

This is going to sound like splitting hairs but I'm going to say it anyway. I can't necessarily say whether or not it's overall effective because that's not the only factor in determining how good a punishment system is. I believe that you need to take into several things, including but not limited to: How fast does one detect and punish trolls (efficiency) and how well does this do in deterring and/or rehabilitating trolling in the population of players (effectiveness).

I agree that it's not very effective right now because of how inefficiently it detects and bans trolls. When people believe they can troll for a long time without being punished, they will and it also encourages it because others see that people are trolling but not getting punished. This is why I disagree with your conclusion and particularly with the part where you said, "riot punishes chat but does not punish trolls." This just demonstrates that it is an ineffective deterrent at the moment.

I'll address each of your suggestions too:

A) The suggestion about replays

Tantram himself has even stated he's watched player's replays in this section of the forums. This leads me to believe that option A is already in practice, which explains why it's so slow. Games take a long time and even if you speed up the rate at which the game plays, it is still very time consuming.

The other part of the suggestion is going to be addressed in the Tribunal suggestion (the part where you say you want to give it to the hands of the community).

B) LP adjustments

This is difficult because based on stats alone, how do you really determine if someone played well or poorly? Tanks are going to have really bad KDA's but they're doing their job well when the team fight ends in their side's favor. Not every tank is going to get an assist on every kill in the team fight even though they have contributed to every single kill in that fight.

Although this would be a more ideal way to handle wins/losses in ranked, the implementation is complex and I have no idea how to properly adjust someone's LP quickly without having to actually review the replay of the game.

C) Tribunal

There were problems with Tribunal because when it first came out, I remembered that Riot had said that people overwhelmingly just hit punish regardless of whether or not someone read through the text to determine if there was harassment. This led to lots of false positive punishments and basically meant that the Tribunal system wasn't working because not enough people were trying to really determine if there was a punishment that should be going out to players.

I participated in the Tribunal when it was used. It personally felt only good for detecting verbal abuse and harassment only because I didn't have reviews to watch. Now a revised Tribunal system with replays in addition to all of the game stats, chat logs, etc... (with the purple still being used to code text and also pings) could be implemented with weighted stats based on your performance.

So for example, you can normally review like 5 games a day. There are reports for verbal abuse/harassment in 2 of the assigned games There are reports of trolling in 3 of your assigned games.

You have a 100% accuracy rate of detecting and punishing verbal abuse/harassment You have a 33% accuracy rate of detecting and punishing trolling

This leads you to get reviews of 10 games a day however you get assigned 7-8 games of verbal abuse/harassment and get 2-3 assignments of trolling games.

If you don't want to have the assignments system, you could try and do like a quest log kind of system. Rather than get assigned a game, have a pool of games listed and let people pick and choose which kinds of reports they want to review. Ex: "This game has an Intentional Feeding report" "This game has an Intentional Feeding and Verbal Abuse report" "This game has a Verbal Abuse report" "This game has a Trolling Report"

and then you pick and choose which ones you want to do and then based on your accuracy, the availability of those kinds of reports and/or combinations of reports increases based on your performance.

(I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, but just offering a suggestion on another way to do it compared to how it was done before.)

D) leaving it the way it is

I honestly don't know if it would be better or worse to change the method of reviewing the games until we try more methods and actually have proof that a specific way works or doesn't work. Right now, I would say leaving it the way it is may not be the best suggestion because there are other ways to try and do this.

l2 4 G 32 votes

I love you

FightORFlight2 votes

For next step in punishment system i was thinking along the lines of recorded games for people who believe encounter abnormal amount of "trolls and feeders" in their games.

People who would like could record every game they play using Fraps or even Nvidia experience has that option now, then when reporting a person simply uploading it to report form same way we attach files in a ticket. Or tribunal could be brought back for the task.. Similar to how boards are designed, we could have down and up votes, every violation is put on display for a few days then at the end votes are counted (more upvotes -> offender walks, more downvotes -> punishment), and participating players would get bonus key fragment or "case solver" summoner icon for 10, 25, 50, 100, 500 cases solved in form of achievments

l2 4 G 31 votes

{quoted}

For next step in punishment system i was thinking along the lines of recorded games for people who believe encounter abnormal amount of "trolls and feeders" in their games.

People who would like could record every game they play using Fraps or even Nvidia experience has that option now, then when reporting a person simply uploading it to report form same way we attach files in a ticket. Or tribunal could be brought back for the task.. Similar to how boards are designed, we could have down and up votes, every violation is put on display for a few days then at the end votes are counted (more upvotes -> offender walks, more downvotes -> punishment), and participating players would get bonus key fragment or "case solver" summoner icon for 10, 25, 50, 100, 500 cases solved in form of achievments

Not on here. The majority of the board community are self-righteous tools who think they are the cream of the crop and everyone should be like them...the "%95" of players who never get any sort of punishment/aren't toxic.

Idk how they can pretend that it's %95 when there are posts on here, DAILY, or people who have 2+ trolls not just in their game, but ON THEIR TEAM, lmao.

Like bruh, your math doesn't make any sense...Oh wait, people can manipulate statistics to make themselves look better...? WHO KNEW?!?!?!

archerno11 votes

[{quoted}](name=l2 4 G 3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=daRJEKZw,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2017-08-07T19:05:28.318+0000)

Not our problem.

Maybe Riot should find a way to better organize the cases that the tribunals review, and/or give people more incentive for participating IN the Tribunals in the first place, instead of just being lazy and making the system automated and giving everyone honor level 3 just for playing long enough.

Perhaps they could have tied the two systems together, in fact, instead of creating this monstrous mess of bullshit?

ie you want honor level 3+? You better participate in some tribunals and help us get rid of these toxic players and trolls. THAT'S something that's honorable. Muting all so that you can pretend there IS no bullshit to deal with is not honorable...it's cowardice...you should have to actually HELP the community to earn these rewards...not just get a participation ribbon for playing enough games and keeping your mouth shut like a good little boy/girl.

They literally state that the PLAYERS should decide what is acceptable, and what is not...what is toxic, and what is not...not a fucking automated bot.

They are quite literally just being lazy, and offering us bullshit instead of actually fixing problems.

Well its not like they owe us anything. They are already giving us free to play game. What kind of attitude is "not our problem"? Yes, its not your problem. How they handle punishment is also not your problem. If you dont like it, you are free to leave.

l2 4 G 33 votes

{quoted}

Well its not like they owe us anything. They are already giving us free to play game. What kind of attitude is "not our problem"? Yes, its not your problem. How they handle punishment is also not your problem. If you dont like it, you are free to leave.

you quoted the wrong person, I'm guessing?

Riot has the same attitude of "not our problem" apparently, so maybe you should ask them the same thing? Tribunal taking too long...let's make a fucking AI bot (because nobody has ever had problems with those amirite?!) that handles all of it for us, because we're lazy and it would gouge our profit margins way too much to hire on more people/come up with a better way to do it. Who cares if it turns in to some sort of Social Justice Warrior and starts banning more long-term players, who have never had any issues with their behavior before, than actual trolls who need to be gone from the game? Who cares if it actually just starts creating all sorts of 'home grown trolls' out of these players, who now have a personal mission to ruin the game for as many people as they can? Who cares if it contributes to the complete and utter ruin of the community? Not our problem, we'll just say it's working as intended, and throw around all sorts of bullshit 'stats' to make it seem like everything's good...it's 2017 and nobody thinks for themselves anymore...they'll all just take it at face value and completely ignore the fact that there are toxic people in almost every game they play. "not our problem"

You do realize that MOST games coming out these days are "free" to play, right? You ALSO do realize that in order to access most of the 'cool' content in the game/save time you have to pay, right? You ALSO realize that when they release "free" to play games, they are made to make profit, right?

There are a LOT of people who don't like it...and we HAVE left...

It doesn't mean that we don't hope they'll get their heads out of their asses one day, and restore this game to it's former glory.

You can't fucking control these things bro, when will you people realize? It's the fucking internet. There will ALWAYS be trolls. You don't ban the people who rage at the trolls, bc it just creates MORE trolls. You don't try to create 'safe spaces' on the internet, because you can't, short of issuing IP bans...which Riot already knows they literally CAN'T do.

Why can they acknowledge THAT, but not the fact that you can't defeat "trollism"?

Oh, and they DO owe us something. Without us, they are nothing. Without us, this game never would have taken off. Without us, they go out of business. So you lost all credibility with me the moment you said otherwise.

FightORFlight1 votes

Okay lol... no need to get so aggressive... it was just a suggestion... A simple "it wouldn't work" would suffice. I know they don't owe us anything... hell even if such system was put in place, i wouldn't use it because i don't need it, but happier community = healthier environment right?

All i did was thinking of a way to catch those trolls who int but fail to get banned because their score doesn't show it.. visual proof would confirm that.. and you respond with such hostility....

l2 4 G 31 votes

{quoted}

Okay lol... no need to get so aggressive... it was just a suggestion... A simple "it wouldn't work" would suffice. I know they don't owe us anything... hell even if such system was put in place, i wouldn't use it because i don't need it, but happier community = healthier environment right?

All i did was thinking of a way to catch those trolls who int but fail to get banned because their score doesn't show it.. visual proof would confirm that.. and you respond with such hostility....

He accidentally replied to you instead of me...sorry that you were collateral damage because my post rubbed him the wrong way<3

BenBaxter1 votes

running it down mid LOL

Beas7ie1 votes

The problem is that unless someone is making it obvious like running a down a lane to feed, or playing a champ like Anivia or Kench and just abusing those specific skills to outright screw over teammates it's hard to tell a troll from someone who is just having a bad game.

The JigSAW1 votes

Its more than the behavior that needs correction, its also the ranked system and punishing those who do well because their team lost a game that they honestly could do little to stop. A mastery system that grants points towards mastery if you win or lose, not according to the grade you get (when leveling to 5, in all fairness, as 6 and 7 require S rankings) so if you get an S at level 3, you get about 100 mastery points for a champ in a 30 minute loss while the guy who won and went 0-7 gets around 800 points and a D+

As far as behavior half the people from what I can tell don't even want to admit toxicity is a real serious problem, the 5% number is thrown around a lot and frankly, they have to admit there is a problem before it can be solved.

MUSHROOM MIDGET1 votes

i agree the war against toxicity was a very bad idea. now people realize they cant rage at their teammates so they just troll instead.

JlackBesus1 votes

option E - give up this game and just troll

MsYorine1 votes

Riot is a company, Companys need money, easier to perma ban toxic players and get them to spend money. Hence the broken system that will never be fixed.

YerroFever3 votes

{quoted}

Riot is a company, Companys need money, easier to perma ban toxic players and get them to spend money. Hence the broken system that will never be fixed.

This is spouted by the people who are permabanned and are trying to shift blame from themselves to Riot. They blame Riot for being a greedy company because it feels a lot better than to accept that they're awful people.

Corporate greed is a wonderful scapegoat but with a single iota of thought into the reasoning, it's easily dismissed from the plausibility scale of tin foil hat conspiracies.

If a person is permabanned, they probably won't spend money on the game again because of fear of getting permabanned again. They probably balance the risk and reward and that they know they're a risk factor and to not waste money, they will most likely never spend money on LOL again. Particularly with how easy it is now to level 1-30 compared to when LOL first came out. XP and IP boosts are no longer necessary.

It's also plausible that once permabanned, they will never spend money on LOL again out of spite from the first permaban.

If you try to say the account gets purchased, Riot also does not see that money. That goes to whoever spent the time botting that account up which will probably get banned for using 3rd party software after you buy the account.

However, looking at a lot of streamers and youtubers who have gotten banned and open new accounts, the vast majority of videos I've seen have base skins and not premium skins... which makes me believe that people don't rebuy skins over and over each time they get permabanned.

MsYorine1 votes

No... pretty sure it's cus they are greedy, ban system doesn't make sense, good try though.

YerroFever2 votes

{quoted}

No... pretty sure it's cus they are greedy, ban system doesn't make sense, good try though.

Please explain your point of view in an explanation of other than "because you don't agree with me you're wrong"

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