Am I the only one that's had an abusive support? [ Note: No, I am not punished, nor was I rude ]

Astôlfo·4/8/2016, 3:27:16 AM·13 votes·3,610 views

First off, no, I am not punished. Second, I appreciate supports who actually bother to try or are friendly, whether or not they do good, because I realize they get a lot of undeserved crap, and that it's a tough position sometimes.

Anyways. I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

Game starts, enemy bot lane is Kindred + Sona. The game started off initially fine, and we almost got a double kill super early in thanks to her snare + my root + my execute fourth. As the game goes on though, I notice she's not using her Black Shield at all. I point it out with "morg pls", continuing with "You have literally one of the best spellshields in the game." I point out it'd help stop Kindred's E slow (and maybe the triple mark thing, not sure), as well as Sona's ult and her slow. She ignores me and continues to do whatever she wants.

At this point, I check the player summary (O key). She's building full AP, nor does she ward at all. I was mostly warding when I could, but obviously, sometimes they're on cooldown and I can't. I start to get irritated because she only tries to go for the damage or an execute before scurrying back. I say "You're not really a good support." At this point, she goes full out nuclear and starts ranting and bashing at me in both teamchat and allchat about how I'm just "salty", and how I need to "get good". I don't fall for the bait, so I don't bother flaming her back or otherwise trying to make any sort of deragatory remarks.

By this point, it's roughly mid-game, so I help between mid-lane, bot-lane, and occasional teamfights. Morg keeps wandering off by herself so I get curious and pan over with the camera to check what she's doing. Lo and behold, she wanders off into the middle of nowhere or straight into the enemy team, before standing still. Obviously, they find her eventually and kill her. While they're attacking her, she doesn't even bother to AA them, and simply waits for them to kill her. Once the death timer is up, she repeated that. Over and over. I still don't bother to flame her or otherwise make any even slightly discouraging or rude remarks towards her, nor do I ask for reports.

By this point, even the enemy team realizes something's wrong and they ask in allchat what the Morg is doing, to which I respond that we had a dispute and so she's intentionally feeding. I still don't flame her or ask for reports or anything else of the nature. They proceed to tell me in all-chat later that they've all decided to report her for intentionally feeding/trolling/etc of their own accord, and several members of my team tell me they'll do so as well. The game's not over yet though, and no one's made a surrender vote, so we continue playing anyways. With the exception of the Morg, everyone is actively trying their best (even the Udyr that wasn't doing so well and fully accepted the fact and apologized, to which I told him it's fine and not to worry so much). In addition, everyone was good-spirited and rather kind, so the rest of the game was fun, even if it was a crushing defeat, because playing with people like that actually helps make one enjoy the game.

So yeah. I just felt like it was a bit unusual, since the stereotype is that the ADCs are usually the abusive ones to the supports, and with this case, it was almost entirely the opposite.

164 Comments

RookPusher4/8/2016, 7:39:55 PM5 votes

One thing I'll mention, as a support main, is that unless you know your ADC, you have to build a little more aggressively than if you did, because you never know when you'll have to do some heavy lifting.

As for warding, I obviously think she should be warding, but truth be told, a lot of low bracket people don't make use of them. I'm not saying that's you, but in Bronze 5, if my free ward is spotting junglers, and you're not adjusting for them or my pings, then why invest in a SS? I'm going to build AP and attempt to nuke the jungler. I personally build SS each game, but many supports down there will tell you it's a 50/50 options.

Not black shielding is plain stupid. It gives you an assist without risking the kill. It's a no-brainer to use even if it's an inopportune time. Not using it at all - wtf?

Utility Backline4/8/2016, 9:09:27 PM4 votes

{quoted}

First off, no, I am not punished. Second, I appreciate supports who actually bother to try or are friendly, whether or not they do good, because I realize they get a lot of undeserved crap, and that it's a tough position sometimes.

Anyways. I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

This is the classic No matter what this ninja is not as good as the support player I wanted

I say "You're not really a good support."

This says it all. You purposely threw out a small seed that you hoped would grow into a fully bloomed toxic player, and it seemed to pay off. Did you do anything toxic? Yes, you did. You were abusive in telling someone they were a bad player. Your plan was to not say anything after you initiated the toxic environment in which the Morgana thrived in. You got him nuclear over one comment and didn't have to say more cause you knew he would get 9x'd their is no reason to talk and get yourself also in trouble, but you should be in trouble, you were rude.

You're also a Marksman, you need to check your privilege. I'm from Support Role Matters, and I'm going to educate you. As a marksman you have certain advantages in the game that a support does not have:

  1. You have a greater gold earnings potential regardless of how well a support is playing you will almost always out earn a support.
  2. You are not expected under any circumstance to place yourself in an unknown situation. You will never be expected to leap frog wards, and aid in lightning up fog of war hot spots. This leads to riskier situations that a support has to be subjected to every game.
  3. When you die you have a slew of excuses at your disposal, a classic is "omg zero peel, if only my support peeled then I could penta" You make me sick.
  4. You have many more champions to pick from as a marksman versus your support whom unless they want to pick from the mage champion pool have only 12-14 picks. Most of those picks however havealmostalways sucked (Taric ,Karma , Leona )

You make me sick with all your privilege, and how you expect low income supports to magically not die. I've been diamond since season 3 and I'm a strong independent support who came up through elo hell being weighed down by over privileged marksman who think its all about them.

650k mastery points on Soraka , but you are one marksman I wouldn't sacrifice my 10% hp for. Now go on down to a local bakery and hook me up with some biscuits, all this educating the privileged has got me hungry.

Mama Soraka4/10/2016, 8:12:11 PM3 votes

So I play with Summoner names turned off and one of my last normal games as a support was with a Jhin botlane that I got in a quarrel with partway through laning phase. (We kissed and made up later and won real hard, though). I read this from when you mentioned you were Jhin all the way to when you mentioned the support player was Morgana holding my breath and thinking "PLEASE DON'T BE ABOUT ME"

Luckily I was playing Soraka, so that was a relief. Whew.

Axests4/8/2016, 2:46:27 PM3 votes

I'm guessing the feeding was the result of you saying "you're not really a good support"

Wolfenstin4/8/2016, 4:47:18 AM3 votes

It definitely goes both ways. Supports are sometimes kinda full of themselves, believing they can do no wrong and that mostly it's the ADCs fault if anything happens. The child and the adult, though sometimes the adult is the more childish one.

If I screw up, I will humbly own it, support or ADC. I've experienced my fair share of nasty supports as well. Most of which complain about my CSing, which granted I may not be great at, but that's no reason to start chewing me out. It doesn't help my confidence or my playing ability.

I play support to keep the ADC alive, not to bully them over their CS or getting caught out. Like Hullabaloo said, when two people have to work together in the same lane and are not on the same page, either one could turn into a real jerk to the other.

IcyPepper4/8/2016, 5:50:09 PM3 votes

You know, sometimes I think an ADC did something stupid. But, I'm not an ass about it.

As a support main, I apologize for your bad experience. Supports are human too, and we can be huge butts.

IDislikeYourMeta4/8/2016, 6:28:29 PM3 votes

A) Yes, I'll concede that the player is fundamentally bad at the game for multiple reasons, mainly deciding to feed once they were tilting. HOWEVER, your actions are mainly the direct cause of said feeding. Everyone has bad games. And everyone has the right to theory craft and try new things, especially in normals. You being a twat and saying she was a "bad support" is you being toxic, regardless of the reason.

I often buy a normal AP or tank item first thing on a support, because I want to hit my power spike early before the other team. Trinkets now carry two wards, between ADC and support we can hold off until 2nd or even 3rd item without a sightward. Hell, with both picking up blue trinkets it's technically not needed at all sometimes. And I've seen bot lane wrecked a bunch by the other side's "support" Kat or Velkoz building full AP and destroying squishies.

Yes, she didn't ward much. But your Udyr who gets to roam freely warded even less. And the opposing mid laner warded less too. So bad habit? Yes. But she wasn't even the worst in the game.

Just because they aren't "supporting" you by healing or shielding doesn't mean they aren't "supporting" the whole team by trying to get kills and winning. I've had twice as many kills as the rest of my team as support Shaco and Malphite, carrying people like you who don't understand that it's a strategy game, not "do whatever one else does to please people without creativity or an understanding of strategy".

B) You say that she only came out from behind tower when you entirely on your lonesome 1 vs 2'd someone low enough to kill. But somehow they're high enough in health to survive her Q, W and then multiple auto attacks even when she's building straight AP. That's some lucky rabbit's foot shit or you're gravely overestimating your contributions or the state of the lane.

As well, standing at tower can easily be seen as a smart strategy. Morg is squishy as fuck. You could have very well been overextended. She pops out to snare when the enemy is obviously vulnerable when they're going for the easy ADC prey. And you claim she's just trying to KS.

I can't count the amount of times I've had an idiot ADC who is overextended with no vision in the middle of the wave against stronger opponents. There's the saying that "you can't fix stupid". Maybe she stayed back because she knew that you were easily gankable/killable in that position.

C) Everything you've said could be correct and you're being jumped on for no reason. However, right now it's just you bitching about someone who isn't here with holes in your story and a bad attitude. Everything that she did (with the exception of tilting and then feeding) can be explained.

This thread easily could have been the reverse, with her posting about an idiot ADC who had the nerve to be toxic for no reason which tilted her and she stopped caring about the game. And then people would be bitching at her for feeding and possibly being at fault. SEE HOW THIS WORKS?!

ModUlanopo4/10/2016, 11:00:27 PM3 votes

As a support main, my perspective comes from the opposite direction, but I get where you're coming from. The ADC and support have to work together and they have very little time to synchronize. I'm always having to deal with people telling me what I'm doing wrong. Take this game as an example.

Despite me feeding him an early double kill - kills that I could have stolen with zero effort - he must have said "Sona pls" a half-dozen times in that match because I wasn't playing the way he wanted me to play. He was especially upset that I used my ult to blast the Bard and Kog'Maw out of the lane, expecting that we would take the tower when they fled.

The short version is that there will always be people like this and you just have to adapt to them. The Yasuo and Aurelion Sol were both more than willing to let me help them get kills. We won and that's pretty much all that matters, at least to me.

In your case, I wouldn't have bothered talking to the Morgana. No good can come of it. If you had told me what my abilities do, I would have felt that you were talking down to me and I wouldn't have liked it. It's also possible that she wasn't good at knowing when to use the shield and was hesitating as a result. That sort of thing happens, especially in solo queue. It probably would have been better to try to analyze the Morgana's play pattern, adapt to it and praise her for any success, no matter how trivial. Sky Williams has a less-than-polite name for this, but it works.

Magneto814/8/2016, 8:25:44 PM3 votes

Good for you for seeing your part in this. I'd support you any day - just give out advice in a nice way and you'll get a helpful honor instead of a salty teammate. Well.... usually lol (Honestly, I usually keep my mouth shut since playing and typing is hard and you never know how someone will react to advice. Often, they know they screwed up and are already upset with themselves.)

Toi Kitty4/9/2016, 10:24:52 PM3 votes

I know Utility Backline sounds crazy, but I took his bot lane sensitivity course and went from Bronze to Gold last season, and this season under his tutelage have went from gold 5 to a high gold! He is an amazing resource for understanding the Support culture and how if you utilize their unique role you can win a lot more. @Utility Backline I think this guy is beyond saving. He will under no circumstance check his privilege. He is bound to fail and remain bronze forever. Thanks for showing me the way! I owe you big! Amazing support as well! I can see why you are diamond and still have time to teach marksman about bot lane sensitivity.

Astôlfo4/8/2016, 7:17:29 PM2 votes

3:25 to 4:10 - Morgana gets critically low, I chase after the Kindred to try and save her. Kindred was slightly too far out for an AA, and I didn't think to try and root the Kindred first. The Kindred's leap takes them close enough for the lethal shot on Morgana, I quickly kill the Kindred after. I almost kill the Sona, but she gets away. I stay too long and get caught out by the Warwick, to which was my fault, for not having warded properly.

6:33 - I get too far out, and promptly killed by the Kindred as I retreat. Morgana secures the kill with an AA, although the flower trap I had left behind did most of the damage. This wasa my bad memory, I apologize for it. This was Morgana's one kill.

8:11 - I get caught out again and die due to a combination of Sona's ult + Kindred's attacks. A Black Shield would have nullified the effects of both the slow from Kindred's E as well as the stun from Sona's ult, and maybe even the slow from Exhaust (not sure on that). That's what I was focusing on, not reducing the damage. That's why I mentioned at this point the "morg pls"/"You have one of the best spellshields in the game." After checking her stat page thingy, I realized she hadn't even put one point into E yet, focusing solely on her Q/W (her damage abilities). At this point, it's also fairly obvious Morgana wasn't even trying to contribute in the slightest outside of just root + W for damage then backing. Thankfully, she still somewhat tries to help with the efight, and I secure a kill on Sona thanks to her help, for which I tell her thanks, as appropriate.

14:40 - Still no leveling in E at all on Morg. She gets killed when she goes in 2v1 (I couldn't help out much as I had barely any health, but didn't want to risk backing because of our tower yet). WW follows out of the bush outside of tower for the kill, Udyr comes up and kills the WW after for a shutdown on the WW.

16:26 - At this point, I'm starting to get a bit suspicious of the Morg because she repeatedly goes in too far ahead of me when I can't catch up with my own speed. She gets herself killed.

17:00 - WW comes out with the two bot and kills me behind tower once again. This was my own fault, not warding, and Morg was still coming back to lane.

18:01 - Morg literally just wanders off to the Scuttle Ward and stands there, and enemies come. She doesn't try to run anything, except for maybe a few AAs that meant nothing, and were more likely to try and cover the fact she was intentionally feeding.

19:02 - Morg just runs through the enemy bot duo doing nothing, getting herself once again instantly killed.

20:25ish - Morg once again goes to river to get herself killed, trying to 2v1 the enemy team without running or trying to do anything except maybe 2-3 AAs. It should've been fully and 100% obvious that it would do nothing at this point, the Kindred and Sona being far ahead.

22:10ish - Morg runs out into middle of enemy team again (3 of them) by herself and gets herself instantly killed. Obviously intentionally feeding.

23:10 - Morg wanders into a teamfight, and just stands still, only staying alive enough for me to finish killing the ones immediately there because of Lulu shielding her. I basically prevented her attempt to intentionally feed there.

24:00 - But fear not, where would Morg be without the trusty Kindred to run headfirst into by herself so she can still feed anyways. Still no point in E, or even her ult yet.

25:00 - Decides to stand in extremely close proximity to enemies with extremely low health and just try to AA a few minions. Gets herself killed instantly. Suspicious? I'd say so.

25:50 - Legit just runs headfirst into 3 of enemy team, instantly gets killed yet again.

26:46 - Runs headfirst into Ahri by herself doing nothing, and gets herself killed instantly once again.

28:00 Decides to chase after enemy Poppy to try and feed once again, but Poppy backs until Illaoi backs because of Kindred. Sona walks across her while she's just trying to AA few minions out in the middle of nowhere meaninglessly, and instantly kills her.

29:05 - Morg runs straight into enemy team backline and stands still until Ahri kills her.

30:21 - Morg repeats this, runs straight at enemy Ahri to get melted instantly.

21:20 - Runs straight into triple enemy team to get herself killed yet again once instantly. STILL NO POINT IN E. Also, something I feel like I should mention. I forget when, iirc, it was around 16-20m mark, she said that she doesn't care about reports at all in our teamchat because they'll do nothing anyways. She continues to start bragging about how no one will be able to do anything to her, because Riot never punishes people like her supposedly, and gleefully laughs at the rest of us. She continued on to continually mock the justice system and how everyone else was taking the game way too seriously and how we should just chill/relax because it was just a game.

entitledplayer4/8/2016, 4:58:56 PM2 votes

This is the events for the match as I am watching them from the replay as announced and posted in this post -- anyone can watch the replay as well to fact-check and cross-examine, as well as you Nep2une;

This transcript describes your early laning phase in reference to your "almost double" that was 'super early'.

*The game loads in, and you and Morg walk down bottom to where your laning phase begins at 1:49.

* From 1:52 to 3:50 - you have a basic average lane opening against the Kindred/Sona -- Morg is camping the brush for lane control pressure, you're farming and eating stagnated poke from Sona and Kindred.

* Morg hits a bind at [2:41] on Kindred which you follow up on with W and Morg uses Exhaust/Ignite on Sona/Kindred respectively to attempt the secure, and Kindred burns Heal summoner, escaping with 41 health.

* At [3:04], Morg hits a second bind on Sona which you follow up with 4th autoattack, but whiff the W hold, putting Sona at 115 HP.

* At [3:20], Morg hits a third bind on Kindred, but she is in tower aggro range. Morg walks up to hit her, eating Sona Passive poke +Q damage, and three tower shots, dropping her to 25 health.

* Immediately as Morg is running back, Kindred flashes forward at [3:30], resulting in First Blood, your immediate reaction flash backwards to auto Kindred, then second blood by you on Kindred, but you whiff point-blank W, and couldn't finalize the autoattacks on Sona for the double, ending the first exchange at [3:50]. You then die because you overstayed, and got ran down by Jungle Warwick, getting Exhausted by Sona, and killed for the tradeback at [4:13], putting game score at 2:1, with a 500 gold lead in Blue Team's favor.

Is this indeed the correct breakdown of your first minutes of your laning phase? -- In reference when you said in the OP:

{quoted}

I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

Game starts, enemy bot lane is Kindred + Sona. The game started off initially fine, and we almost got a double kill super early in thanks to her snare + my root + my execute fourth.

Here is the chart view of your match history, aligned to this timeline shown on the replay with the events I am viewing/describing for those who were too lazy to investigate the replay:

A simple yes or no in the affirmative or negative will suffice.

Is this timeline of the replay in line with the narrative you've described in your OP so far?

Edit:

Keep in mind that because you've already said it, and because I'm cross-checking this information -- the correct answer here is 'yes', because 'no' would be directly lying and would be impossible, based on the above excerpt and the transcript of the recorded game.

Hullabaloo9074/8/2016, 4:04:43 AM2 votes

Honestly, it goes both ways. It's important to realize that whenever two people are not on the same page but have to work together, it is frustrating for both. Trying to work with difficult people is a skill of its own, and getting good at that is pretty important. That being said, often times people will pick support, but the. Not play like a support, which is just dumb

xVARIANTx4/8/2016, 2:08:01 PM1 votes

Ofc, you never said you didn't make any mistakes, you just graciously point out all of hers. There might be something left unsaid where you two almost got a double kill early on. Did you possibly make any mistakes there that would cause this player to lose her confidence in you? THAT right there would be bad on her part but would make some sense.

So you don't think that unprompted criticism is not rude? What if I went up to you and said, 'that is not a very good hairstyle' or 'that is not a very good physique you have'. Your perception on what is rude and what is not needs some work. Just because you didn't include any curse words does not make your statement not rude.

So you're saying she did nothing until she though she could get a kill. You mean until an opportunity presented it self? For some reason you're placing a lot of emphasis on auto-attacks. I don't know what mmr this would be anyways since this is a normal game and not ranked, no reason for such a lengthy post about a support but anyways. You make it sound like she's trying to KS everything yet she's doing literally nothing. One big thing, if she's not doing anything she's not taking your cs. Also, maybe staying low-key is what nearly got you two a double kill early on?

"Good job, another fucking idiot who doesn't read anything and leaps to assumptions." Rofl, now the real you comes out. Good job sounding like an angel up until this point. And it's 'jumps to conclusions', lawl. We're all reading dude, it's just that we're reading between the lines too.

This whole thing about her trying to take your kill might just be paranoia on your part however if you and her both get the kill, it's better than nothing. And if she does take the kill, welp, it's a normals game. Not the best thing but maybe she lost confidence in you early on.

Ok you're right about the Jhin/Kindred thing, good job.

WHAT ITEM was it that was "full ap"?? Was it a zhonya's?? Because that too would make some sense.

"baseless random insuling assumptions, right? ;)" Insulting assumptions is what I think you mean and what about what I said was insulting? Oh wait, do you think I was being rude to you? Am I being condescending too? I didn't use any rude words, I just criticized your perspective.