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Am I the only one that's had an abusive support? [ Note: No, I am not punished, nor was I rude ]

Astôlfo··13 votes·3,610 views

First off, no, I am not punished. Second, I appreciate supports who actually bother to try or are friendly, whether or not they do good, because I realize they get a lot of undeserved crap, and that it's a tough position sometimes.

Anyways. I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

Game starts, enemy bot lane is Kindred + Sona. The game started off initially fine, and we almost got a double kill super early in thanks to her snare + my root + my execute fourth. As the game goes on though, I notice she's not using her Black Shield at all. I point it out with "morg pls", continuing with "You have literally one of the best spellshields in the game." I point out it'd help stop Kindred's E slow (and maybe the triple mark thing, not sure), as well as Sona's ult and her slow. She ignores me and continues to do whatever she wants.

At this point, I check the player summary (O key). She's building full AP, nor does she ward at all. I was mostly warding when I could, but obviously, sometimes they're on cooldown and I can't. I start to get irritated because she only tries to go for the damage or an execute before scurrying back. I say "You're not really a good support." At this point, she goes full out nuclear and starts ranting and bashing at me in both teamchat and allchat about how I'm just "salty", and how I need to "get good". I don't fall for the bait, so I don't bother flaming her back or otherwise trying to make any sort of deragatory remarks.

By this point, it's roughly mid-game, so I help between mid-lane, bot-lane, and occasional teamfights. Morg keeps wandering off by herself so I get curious and pan over with the camera to check what she's doing. Lo and behold, she wanders off into the middle of nowhere or straight into the enemy team, before standing still. Obviously, they find her eventually and kill her. While they're attacking her, she doesn't even bother to AA them, and simply waits for them to kill her. Once the death timer is up, she repeated that. Over and over. I still don't bother to flame her or otherwise make any even slightly discouraging or rude remarks towards her, nor do I ask for reports.

By this point, even the enemy team realizes something's wrong and they ask in allchat what the Morg is doing, to which I respond that we had a dispute and so she's intentionally feeding. I still don't flame her or ask for reports or anything else of the nature. They proceed to tell me in all-chat later that they've all decided to report her for intentionally feeding/trolling/etc of their own accord, and several members of my team tell me they'll do so as well. The game's not over yet though, and no one's made a surrender vote, so we continue playing anyways. With the exception of the Morg, everyone is actively trying their best (even the Udyr that wasn't doing so well and fully accepted the fact and apologized, to which I told him it's fine and not to worry so much). In addition, everyone was good-spirited and rather kind, so the rest of the game was fun, even if it was a crushing defeat, because playing with people like that actually helps make one enjoy the game.

So yeah. I just felt like it was a bit unusual, since the stereotype is that the ADCs are usually the abusive ones to the supports, and with this case, it was almost entirely the opposite.

164 Comments

RookPusher5 votes

One thing I'll mention, as a support main, is that unless you know your ADC, you have to build a little more aggressively than if you did, because you never know when you'll have to do some heavy lifting.

As for warding, I obviously think she should be warding, but truth be told, a lot of low bracket people don't make use of them. I'm not saying that's you, but in Bronze 5, if my free ward is spotting junglers, and you're not adjusting for them or my pings, then why invest in a SS? I'm going to build AP and attempt to nuke the jungler. I personally build SS each game, but many supports down there will tell you it's a 50/50 options.

Not black shielding is plain stupid. It gives you an assist without risking the kill. It's a no-brainer to use even if it's an inopportune time. Not using it at all - wtf?

Utility Backline4 votes

{quoted}

First off, no, I am not punished. Second, I appreciate supports who actually bother to try or are friendly, whether or not they do good, because I realize they get a lot of undeserved crap, and that it's a tough position sometimes.

Anyways. I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

This is the classic No matter what this ninja is not as good as the support player I wanted

I say "You're not really a good support."

This says it all. You purposely threw out a small seed that you hoped would grow into a fully bloomed toxic player, and it seemed to pay off. Did you do anything toxic? Yes, you did. You were abusive in telling someone they were a bad player. Your plan was to not say anything after you initiated the toxic environment in which the Morgana thrived in. You got him nuclear over one comment and didn't have to say more cause you knew he would get 9x'd their is no reason to talk and get yourself also in trouble, but you should be in trouble, you were rude.

You're also a Marksman, you need to check your privilege. I'm from Support Role Matters, and I'm going to educate you. As a marksman you have certain advantages in the game that a support does not have:

  1. You have a greater gold earnings potential regardless of how well a support is playing you will almost always out earn a support.
  2. You are not expected under any circumstance to place yourself in an unknown situation. You will never be expected to leap frog wards, and aid in lightning up fog of war hot spots. This leads to riskier situations that a support has to be subjected to every game.
  3. When you die you have a slew of excuses at your disposal, a classic is "omg zero peel, if only my support peeled then I could penta" You make me sick.
  4. You have many more champions to pick from as a marksman versus your support whom unless they want to pick from the mage champion pool have only 12-14 picks. Most of those picks however havealmostalways sucked (Taric ,Karma , Leona )

You make me sick with all your privilege, and how you expect low income supports to magically not die. I've been diamond since season 3 and I'm a strong independent support who came up through elo hell being weighed down by over privileged marksman who think its all about them.

650k mastery points on Soraka , but you are one marksman I wouldn't sacrifice my 10% hp for. Now go on down to a local bakery and hook me up with some biscuits, all this educating the privileged has got me hungry.

Astôlfo3 votes

facepalm I wasn't trying to plant a seed of anything. They weren't even trying from the start, and they also weren't interested in anything but their own score. Hence, me telling them they weren't really a good support, because they weren't supporting.

You're also a Marksman, you need to check your privilege.

Cringe levels just went up through the roof. Oh look, you know how to make idiotic assumptions too, good job. I know support role is a hugely important one and I respect supports that actually at least try, even if they're not good. But of course, you see nothing except the "OMG HE SAID SUPPORT IS BAD LET ME IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE AND BASH HIM BECAUSE HES OBVIOUSLY STEREOTYPICAL ASSHOLE ADC". Nice.

  1. Duh.
  2. Uh, I'm fully willing to be the one also partaking in warding. Note, partaking. I'm fully willing to take risks as well. What I don't expect is them to just not even try to help at all unless they can try to get a kill themselves.
  3. Uh, which I never bother with, because most of the time I die, it's my own fault, and there's no reason to blame the support. Most of the time I died in this game in early was also mostly my fault, but I was simply stating Morg's black shield would have helped out a lot, given CC was a problem. Except she never even leveled it up once in the entire game. Man, the SJW-level fanaticism is really showing. YOU disgust me, blindly trying to start shit without even trying to read.
  4. Okay, and? They picked Morg, which is one of the best supports I'd say.

You make me sick with all your privilege, and how you expect low income supports to magically not die.

Oh bloody hell. Go back to Tumblr where you can scream at everyone just because they say the slightest thing that doesn't fully agree with you, and ignore everything else they say. Because that's what you're doing. I don't have any such "privilege" that I expect personally, nor do I expect supports to be a babysitter or not die. I expect them to at least try and help out, and not just come out when they can get a kill (themselves, not even in trying to help out in general) or otherwise do nothing. And I also don't expect them to ragefeed.

I've been diamond since season 3 and I'm a strong independent support who came up through elo hell being weighed down by over privileged marksman who think its all about them. 650k mastery points on , but you are one marksman I wouldn't sacrifice my 10% hp for. Now go on down to a local bakery and hook me up with some biscuits, all this educating the privileged has got me hungry.

Do you not see the irony of what you're saying. The absolute hypocrisy? Jesus christ the cringe is disgusting. You are the disgusting one by all means. You are the only one trying to act all privileged by acting like support is some godly infallible role. You are the one trying to act like even the slightest critique about support is all-out mindless salty dumb bashing. You are the one that's actually just not reading and assuming shit and using it to try and put down others. You disgust the fuck out of me. Playing with something like you is an experience I hope I'll never have, because you'll be utterly disgusting the entire game because you can't take anything other than "OMG YOU'RE SO AMAZING I LOVE YOU MARRY ME".

lmfao.

treeking0133 votes

Well, I've been complimented by my adc's before.

Don't think an over privileged brat would do that.

Astôlfo2 votes

That's obviously impossible. Supports are all perfect godly beings and ADCs are always complete scummy assholes who need to check their privilege. :D xD

Wolfenstin3 votes

It definitely goes both ways. Supports are sometimes kinda full of themselves, believing they can do no wrong and that mostly it's the ADCs fault if anything happens. The child and the adult, though sometimes the adult is the more childish one.

If I screw up, I will humbly own it, support or ADC. I've experienced my fair share of nasty supports as well. Most of which complain about my CSing, which granted I may not be great at, but that's no reason to start chewing me out. It doesn't help my confidence or my playing ability.

I play support to keep the ADC alive, not to bully them over their CS or getting caught out. Like Hullabaloo said, when two people have to work together in the same lane and are not on the same page, either one could turn into a real jerk to the other.

Axests3 votes

I'm guessing the feeding was the result of you saying "you're not really a good support"

Astôlfo5 votes

Because… that apparently justifies it?

Axests6 votes

{quoted}

Because… that apparently justifies it?

not a justification, more correlation. That comment might have been what caused the morgana to feed, which means her behavior was a result of your actions. While yes the morgana may have been building more a mage than a support, and not warding, that doesn't excuse those types of comments. Just saying for future reference, comments like that may cause similar behavior. As for if the morgana's actions were justified, the answer is a no, no form of toxicity is justified in riot's eyes.

Astôlfo4 votes

I was saying it objectively. I didn't mean it as in they were a bad player (which they were). I meant it as in, they literally were not a good support. Because they literally did nothing to support. Which would make someone not good at supporting. And I'm not even the person to say something like that outside of the most extreme circumstances.

If a support actually tries, I could care less how good they are. They can get kills, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind if they wanted CS. I would be perfectly fine if I died because of my own fault. But when they don't even attempt to do anything, I think that's a problem.

Axests6 votes

{quoted}

I was saying it objectively. I didn't mean it as in they were a bad player (which they were). I meant it as in, they literally were not a good support. Because they literally did nothing to support. Which would make someone not good at supporting. And I'm not even the person to say something like that outside of the most extreme circumstances.

If a support actually tries, I could care less how good they are. They can get kills, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind if they wanted CS. I would be perfectly fine if I died because of my own fault. But when they don't even attempt to do anything, I think that's a problem.

True, they aren't doing their role, supporting. They're playing like a carry bot lane, and if that is their intention, they should at least make that clear (though it sounds to me that they just weren't as you said, a good support). This spreads toxicity, because it not only gives them the mindset that it's "ok" to do things like that, but it also removes the teamwork aspect on gameplay. My post was more directed towards your one comment, "you're not a good support" that morgana most likely received negatively. In her eyes it was most likely more of an insult than what you intended it to mean.

IcyPepper3 votes

You know, sometimes I think an ADC did something stupid. But, I'm not an ass about it.

As a support main, I apologize for your bad experience. Supports are human too, and we can be huge butts.

Astôlfo2 votes

Like, I honestly and truly respect actual Support players a great deal because they get shit on a lot, most of the time undeserved. I've played my fair share of games to know the ADC stereotype is true. So I actually really appreciate my supports.

Sure, they might not be too good at supporting, and we might lose the game. If they're honestly trying however, I'll be the one reassuring them and encouraging them that it's fine. Everyone has bad games, and sometimes they might not just do so well. That's fine, I understand, everyone does bad sometimes. The important thing is that they still at least try and put effort into it. That's all I ask for.

When they do well, I'm glad to, and will definitely thank them or praise them as necessary. Support players are real people just like everyone else, and they deserve the same respect. If they're doing good, of course I'd tell them so. ^^

Thanks for understanding and not leaping to conclusions.

IDislikeYourMeta3 votes

A) Yes, I'll concede that the player is fundamentally bad at the game for multiple reasons, mainly deciding to feed once they were tilting. HOWEVER, your actions are mainly the direct cause of said feeding. Everyone has bad games. And everyone has the right to theory craft and try new things, especially in normals. You being a twat and saying she was a "bad support" is you being toxic, regardless of the reason.

I often buy a normal AP or tank item first thing on a support, because I want to hit my power spike early before the other team. Trinkets now carry two wards, between ADC and support we can hold off until 2nd or even 3rd item without a sightward. Hell, with both picking up blue trinkets it's technically not needed at all sometimes. And I've seen bot lane wrecked a bunch by the other side's "support" Kat or Velkoz building full AP and destroying squishies.

Yes, she didn't ward much. But your Udyr who gets to roam freely warded even less. And the opposing mid laner warded less too. So bad habit? Yes. But she wasn't even the worst in the game.

Just because they aren't "supporting" you by healing or shielding doesn't mean they aren't "supporting" the whole team by trying to get kills and winning. I've had twice as many kills as the rest of my team as support Shaco and Malphite, carrying people like you who don't understand that it's a strategy game, not "do whatever one else does to please people without creativity or an understanding of strategy".

B) You say that she only came out from behind tower when you entirely on your lonesome 1 vs 2'd someone low enough to kill. But somehow they're high enough in health to survive her Q, W and then multiple auto attacks even when she's building straight AP. That's some lucky rabbit's foot shit or you're gravely overestimating your contributions or the state of the lane.

As well, standing at tower can easily be seen as a smart strategy. Morg is squishy as fuck. You could have very well been overextended. She pops out to snare when the enemy is obviously vulnerable when they're going for the easy ADC prey. And you claim she's just trying to KS.

I can't count the amount of times I've had an idiot ADC who is overextended with no vision in the middle of the wave against stronger opponents. There's the saying that "you can't fix stupid". Maybe she stayed back because she knew that you were easily gankable/killable in that position.

C) Everything you've said could be correct and you're being jumped on for no reason. However, right now it's just you bitching about someone who isn't here with holes in your story and a bad attitude. Everything that she did (with the exception of tilting and then feeding) can be explained.

This thread easily could have been the reverse, with her posting about an idiot ADC who had the nerve to be toxic for no reason which tilted her and she stopped caring about the game. And then people would be bitching at her for feeding and possibly being at fault. SEE HOW THIS WORKS?!

IDislikeYourMeta2 votes

Oh, and not to harp too much. But "bad" is relative. Looking up your profile it's easy to dissect.

Your recent tank Bard support you went 3/11/10 with 10 wards placed. Tank Thresh support you went 2/3/12 with 10 wards placed. AP Bard support it's 1/7/8 with 7 wards placed. You don't buy pink wards pretty much at all.

A quick look around, the only time you generally have a good KDA is on flavour of the month champs like tank Ekko top or easy kill champs regardless of skill like Karthus. Otherwise you're hovering around an average of 1-2 KDA with most of your games dying more than you kill even in carry positions like Leblanc or Yasuo.

I generally just like fucking around in games doing fun off meta things. I don't try hard or care about winning and losing. Even then, comparing our profiles (not counting ARAMs) I have a higher KDA than you and ward twice as much (a few games I average three times as much as you, sometimes I do it even without a sightstone). To me, if I got you as a support, I could EASILY think that YOU were a bad support. Or I could say that you were a bad player in general based just on your profile history. The difference is, I wouldn't rage at you and create a shite thread on the forums about it.

Lothàrs Edge2 votes

I've dealt with this person before. He's very sarcastic and what most people would consider a "low-key" troll.

IDislikeYourMeta2 votes

Can't tell if that's to me or nep2une (ʘ_ʘ)

Lothàrs Edge2 votes

Nep2une. The skinny guy/virgin/League player dude.

Astôlfo2 votes

First two paragraphs: I've already replied to this kind of junk from other people probably a dozen times by now, go read my replies to their posts. Third P: The Udyr actually apologized repeatedly in chat profusely for not doing that well, but he was still trying his best. And I'd say she was the worst in the game, with her intentional feeding. Fourth paragraph: Read the thing about the first two Ps. Fifth: Except, she still barely had any AP because she went Ionian boots, then tried to make Morello, but got nowhere near because she kept feeding so she had no gold. Sixth: Except, she legit didn't even try to help in most cases. Seven: meh, okay, good for your anecdote Eight/Ninth: meh

IDislikeYourMeta2 votes

For the last time, I've NEVER said she was in the right. The way she responded was terrible. I've only expressly said that you were in the wrong too and I'm trying to get you to understand that.

In general, you've contradicted yourself multiple times. In one of your first responses to someone in this thread you said verbatim: "She literally went full AP from the very moment the game started." You said that all she was trying to do was take kills but at the same time not contributing (even though any damage in a team fight is contributing). But now for the sake of this portion of your story, she barely had any AP? Which is it? All of the AP or none of it?

Looking at her items she built boots and then was hoping for Morello before you caused her to tilt. Best support build? No. Is there anything wrong with it? No. So your first comment when you were trying to get people on your side was hyperbole. She got boots, wanted a single AP item, didn't take shield and then you insulted her in front of your team, and then she started feeding.

Your general attitude has been aggressive and toxic throughout this whole thread. and I assume it's the same in game. It's very clear that you're not understanding what a dozen people are trying to tell you. And thus, you're never going to improve.

She WAS supporting, just not the way you wanted. You and her were trading in lane with the other team. And then by mid game AFTER you had insulted her, did she start tilting and feeding. You've said so multiple times yourself that this was the course of events. You don't admit that it's your fault, but you've admitted that this is the timeline. You were the cause of her feeding.

Astôlfo1 votes

I should've probably worded it better. She tried to go full AP. She started Doran's 2 Pots, then went and got T1 boots. Then Sapphire Crystal and Ionian. Tome and Codex later. Then sold Ring for Forbidden Idol (Morello build path till now). She couldn't get any further.

I thought boots weren't worth mentioning really. Otherwise, she never tried to build any sort of helpful items at all, and just went straight to trying to get Morello's between her doing just about nothing and then intentionally feeding. Obviously, dying so much, she didn't have much gold and got basically nowhere.

And running into the middle of an enemy team, doing 2-3 AAs, and getting instantly killed during her attempt to rage-feed is hardly contributing.

She tried to build Morello before we even started having a conflict. And I hardly insulted her in front of the team. I said "morg pls"/"You have one of the best spellshields in the game." and it wasn't till later where she was actively being a problem with her behaviors that I said she wasn't that good of a support.

And it's probably a surprise to you, but in stark contrast to the forums, I'm generally one of the nicest people you'll meet in game. And no, she wasn't really supporting.

IDislikeYourMeta2 votes

But as I had mentioned previously, you don't NEED to build support items to be a support. You don't NEED to be a support character to be a support. The top laner is supporting the team as much as the jungler, mid laner and ADC. It's a team game. She could have built as an AD tank, and she still could have been supporting you. And by your admission she was, hitting snares early game and trading damage in lane.

But once you had the conflict, that's when it was lost. No one is debating the rage-feed. But that came afterwards, after she had been contributing, specifically after your words to her.

I don't know you in real life. All I can base judgement on is how you've treated others within the thread (which as a whole, was to shame another specific player's actions in a public matter). From what I can see is that you're passive aggressive and don't like to take a look at yourself unless forced to (like multiple people like myself). If this isn't like you in real life, it might be time to take a break from League.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yeah, I realize it was probably too much of me to react as the way I did. I apologize.

Magneto813 votes

Good for you for seeing your part in this. I'd support you any day - just give out advice in a nice way and you'll get a helpful honor instead of a salty teammate. Well.... usually lol (Honestly, I usually keep my mouth shut since playing and typing is hard and you never know how someone will react to advice. Often, they know they screwed up and are already upset with themselves.)

Toi Kitty3 votes

I know Utility Backline sounds crazy, but I took his bot lane sensitivity course and went from Bronze to Gold last season, and this season under his tutelage have went from gold 5 to a high gold! He is an amazing resource for understanding the Support culture and how if you utilize their unique role you can win a lot more. @Utility Backline I think this guy is beyond saving. He will under no circumstance check his privilege. He is bound to fail and remain bronze forever. Thanks for showing me the way! I owe you big! Amazing support as well! I can see why you are diamond and still have time to teach marksman about bot lane sensitivity.

Astôlfo1 votes

The circlejerk troll group, it's overwhelming. Hurry on back to 4chan.

Utility Backline2 votes

{quoted}

The circlejerk troll group, it's overwhelming. Hurry on back to 4chan.

Just a bunch of gold+ players seeing the flaws in your game shrug How many excuses you going to use before you accept facts? It is a fact you have not once purchased a pink ward in over 100 games... You're not good dude, give it up. My group is very efficient at finding flawed players. I've coached them all. You could really learn something from the advice I am giving you. Or stay bronze. Your choice shrug eyeroll chuckle

Mama Soraka3 votes

So I play with Summoner names turned off and one of my last normal games as a support was with a Jhin botlane that I got in a quarrel with partway through laning phase. (We kissed and made up later and won real hard, though). I read this from when you mentioned you were Jhin all the way to when you mentioned the support player was Morgana holding my breath and thinking "PLEASE DON'T BE ABOUT ME"

Luckily I was playing Soraka, so that was a relief. Whew.

Astôlfo2 votes

xD

I'm not the person to get mad at almost anyone as long as they're actually trying. If they're trying, I'll encourage them, reassure them, give them advice/tips, tell them they're doing good when they get something good (a kill/objective/help in teamfight with CC/etc).

Utility Backline2 votes

{quoted}

xD

I'm not the person to get mad at almost anyone as long as they're actually trying. If they're trying, I'll encourage them, reassure them, give them advice/tips, tell them they're doing good when they get something good (a kill/objective/help in teamfight with CC/etc).

Its always easy to be the guy who can judge others, but look at how you've behaved towards me and others giving you actual advice and pointing out your own shortcomings. You have reacted exactly like the Morg reacted in your game. You lash out, you get toxic, you spew ad hominems. You're such a fucking hypocrit its not even funny. I mention you haven't purchased a pink in over 100 games and you get toxic. Take a page out of your book dude. Stop posting on this thread, its done, its exhausted, you are flawed.

ModUlanopo3 votes

As a support main, my perspective comes from the opposite direction, but I get where you're coming from. The ADC and support have to work together and they have very little time to synchronize. I'm always having to deal with people telling me what I'm doing wrong. Take this game as an example.

Despite me feeding him an early double kill - kills that I could have stolen with zero effort - he must have said "Sona pls" a half-dozen times in that match because I wasn't playing the way he wanted me to play. He was especially upset that I used my ult to blast the Bard and Kog'Maw out of the lane, expecting that we would take the tower when they fled.

The short version is that there will always be people like this and you just have to adapt to them. The Yasuo and Aurelion Sol were both more than willing to let me help them get kills. We won and that's pretty much all that matters, at least to me.

In your case, I wouldn't have bothered talking to the Morgana. No good can come of it. If you had told me what my abilities do, I would have felt that you were talking down to me and I wouldn't have liked it. It's also possible that she wasn't good at knowing when to use the shield and was hesitating as a result. That sort of thing happens, especially in solo queue. It probably would have been better to try to analyze the Morgana's play pattern, adapt to it and praise her for any success, no matter how trivial. Sky Williams has a less-than-polite name for this, but it works.

Astôlfo2 votes

Thank you for actually being reasonable and understanding! ^^

Hullabaloo9072 votes

Honestly, it goes both ways. It's important to realize that whenever two people are not on the same page but have to work together, it is frustrating for both. Trying to work with difficult people is a skill of its own, and getting good at that is pretty important. That being said, often times people will pick support, but the. Not play like a support, which is just dumb

entitledplayer2 votes

This is the events for the match as I am watching them from the replay as announced and posted in this post -- anyone can watch the replay as well to fact-check and cross-examine, as well as you Nep2une;

This transcript describes your early laning phase in reference to your "almost double" that was 'super early'.

*The game loads in, and you and Morg walk down bottom to where your laning phase begins at 1:49.

* From 1:52 to 3:50 - you have a basic average lane opening against the Kindred/Sona -- Morg is camping the brush for lane control pressure, you're farming and eating stagnated poke from Sona and Kindred.

* Morg hits a bind at [2:41] on Kindred which you follow up on with W and Morg uses Exhaust/Ignite on Sona/Kindred respectively to attempt the secure, and Kindred burns Heal summoner, escaping with 41 health.

* At [3:04], Morg hits a second bind on Sona which you follow up with 4th autoattack, but whiff the W hold, putting Sona at 115 HP.

* At [3:20], Morg hits a third bind on Kindred, but she is in tower aggro range. Morg walks up to hit her, eating Sona Passive poke +Q damage, and three tower shots, dropping her to 25 health.

* Immediately as Morg is running back, Kindred flashes forward at [3:30], resulting in First Blood, your immediate reaction flash backwards to auto Kindred, then second blood by you on Kindred, but you whiff point-blank W, and couldn't finalize the autoattacks on Sona for the double, ending the first exchange at [3:50]. You then die because you overstayed, and got ran down by Jungle Warwick, getting Exhausted by Sona, and killed for the tradeback at [4:13], putting game score at 2:1, with a 500 gold lead in Blue Team's favor.

Is this indeed the correct breakdown of your first minutes of your laning phase? -- In reference when you said in the OP:

{quoted}

I was queueing up in Blind Pick as Jhin ADC with a friend who wanted to support for me (Lulu). Unfortunately, someone ninja picks support first, so she concedes and goes mid instead.

Game starts, enemy bot lane is Kindred + Sona. The game started off initially fine, and we almost got a double kill super early in thanks to her snare + my root + my execute fourth.

Here is the chart view of your match history, aligned to this timeline shown on the replay with the events I am viewing/describing for those who were too lazy to investigate the replay:

A simple yes or no in the affirmative or negative will suffice.

Is this timeline of the replay in line with the narrative you've described in your OP so far?

Edit:

Keep in mind that because you've already said it, and because I'm cross-checking this information -- the correct answer here is 'yes', because 'no' would be directly lying and would be impossible, based on the above excerpt and the transcript of the recorded game.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yes the "almost" double was me chasing down the Sona that was nearly dead. And it's not visible since you can't see chat, but after Morg had died (we weren't arguing or anything yet), I had profusely apologized for not being able to save her, because I thought I would have been able to kill the Kindred before it killed her. Anyways, yeah, I overstayed and got caught out by the WW.

entitledplayer2 votes

{quoted}

Yes the "almost" double was me chasing down the Sona that was nearly dead. And it's not visible since you can't see chat, but after Morg had died (we weren't arguing or anything yet), I had profusely apologized for not being able to save her, because I thought I would have been able to kill the Kindred before it killed her. Anyways, yeah, I overstayed and got caught out by the WW.

Good.

Thus by your affirmative in the positive, this and all information as presented and challenged by any poster from here on in has been verified as true, thus any other breakdowns of your OP when cross-examined with my transcripts and anyone else's can be shown as false at any time it is not in line with the events as you describe them from OP and as I/we relay them from the replay.

However, before I continue, the matter of your privacy is at hand.

Do you consent to an open-forum cross-analytical discussion of your gameplay from this replay, your OP as it was written, and my transcripts cross-examination for all in participation?

  • If yes, I will continue to the laning phase after your item advantage and onto the end of the match, cross examining as I go and pressing you for context, clarity and full disclosure;

  • If no, then I will stop discussing the matter and only you, I , and those who watch the replay can see what transpires and what can be gleaned and assumed as evident and circumstantial -- since we cannot cross reference your chat logs without a Rioter whom you give consent to to pull them or your testimony.

Do you consent?

entitledplayer1 votes

{quoted}

Do you consent?

Keep in mind that omission of a response of yea or nay is and will be interpreted as an allowance in the affirmative to continue.

[Layman's: If you don't say no or yes, I will assume that it's a yes, because if you were against it, you'd have voiced your opinion.]

I will wait 10 minutes for a response before continuing.

*edit:

Also, this verbal contract solely applies to me and no one else.

Astôlfo2 votes

I was in class. And no, I pass on the offer. I can explain it well enough once I actually get home so I can go through the replay.

entitledplayer1 votes

{quoted}

I was in class. And no, I pass on the offer. I can explain it well enough once I actually get home so I can go through the replay.

Good.

We expect full clarity and disclosure from you. I already know the truth, I simply want to see follow-through.

Because if I/we don't see it, you know it's all over but the crying for the sus AF credibility of this OP, right?

Because that's what happens when someone's savagery for the truth catches you in a lie -- It destroys the credibility of your words from there on, and will disenchant any user invested enough to catch up to where we are now.

Nevertheless, we await you with simulated baited breath.

Astôlfo2 votes

You remind me of Dominick, to be honest. Both of you like to try and act all intelligent by using all sorts of fancy, souped up sentences, while all you two do in actuality is try and shit on others to make yourself feel better. :P Oh right, and the thing with where both of you apparently think you're so "cool" for being able to be "savage"/"destroy" someone - Dominick/etc.

But man, you are absolutely hilarious. I'll be home in about 20-30m, and writing up the event log as per minute/few minutes it's happening will prob take about another 10-20 or so.

Erdrik4 votes

Just to be clear, I do not agree with entitledplayer's handling of his rebuttals. I don't like how he is acting like he has some kind of authority to make demands of you or demand responses to his inquiries.

Because frankly he doesn't and you don't have to.

The only reason I posted what I did was because of a curiosity on my part with the inaccuracy in your statement about Morg's only kill in the match. I did not mean to imply I was condoning or supporting his demands. If that is how it came off I apologize.

entitledplayer1 votes

{quoted}

Just to be clear, I do not agree with entitledplayer's handling of his rebuttals. I don't like how he is acting like he has some kind of authority to make demands of you or demand responses to his inquiries.

Because frankly he doesn't and you don't have to.

The only reason I posted what I did was because of a curiosity on my part with the inaccuracy in your statement about Morg's only kill in the match. I did not mean to imply I was condoning or supporting his demands. If that is how it came off I apologize.

I don't, actually.

The fact he was lying about what actually happened is why I was being blunt.

I didn't have to give him a choice, because he doesn't have one.

The reason I have the upper-hand in this thread on the topic of dicussion was I was the first and only to think to cross-reference his story with the replay, and I caught him in 17 different lies and embellishments -- and I don't take kindly to liars.

You're free to disagree and disprove of my methods, but you know as well as I did -- this poster likes to be a sensationalist with absolutely no clout or weight of honesty or sincerity behind their words.

At any time you want to tell me what you want done differently, @ me directly; Depending on if i want to entertain it, we can carry from there.

But don't shield a liar from just desserts, especially the "Dramatic Irony Banana Cream Pie".

Astôlfo2 votes

3:25 to 4:10 - Morgana gets critically low, I chase after the Kindred to try and save her. Kindred was slightly too far out for an AA, and I didn't think to try and root the Kindred first. The Kindred's leap takes them close enough for the lethal shot on Morgana, I quickly kill the Kindred after. I almost kill the Sona, but she gets away. I stay too long and get caught out by the Warwick, to which was my fault, for not having warded properly.

6:33 - I get too far out, and promptly killed by the Kindred as I retreat. Morgana secures the kill with an AA, although the flower trap I had left behind did most of the damage. This wasa my bad memory, I apologize for it. This was Morgana's one kill.

8:11 - I get caught out again and die due to a combination of Sona's ult + Kindred's attacks. A Black Shield would have nullified the effects of both the slow from Kindred's E as well as the stun from Sona's ult, and maybe even the slow from Exhaust (not sure on that). That's what I was focusing on, not reducing the damage. That's why I mentioned at this point the "morg pls"/"You have one of the best spellshields in the game." After checking her stat page thingy, I realized she hadn't even put one point into E yet, focusing solely on her Q/W (her damage abilities). At this point, it's also fairly obvious Morgana wasn't even trying to contribute in the slightest outside of just root + W for damage then backing. Thankfully, she still somewhat tries to help with the efight, and I secure a kill on Sona thanks to her help, for which I tell her thanks, as appropriate.

14:40 - Still no leveling in E at all on Morg. She gets killed when she goes in 2v1 (I couldn't help out much as I had barely any health, but didn't want to risk backing because of our tower yet). WW follows out of the bush outside of tower for the kill, Udyr comes up and kills the WW after for a shutdown on the WW.

16:26 - At this point, I'm starting to get a bit suspicious of the Morg because she repeatedly goes in too far ahead of me when I can't catch up with my own speed. She gets herself killed.

17:00 - WW comes out with the two bot and kills me behind tower once again. This was my own fault, not warding, and Morg was still coming back to lane.

18:01 - Morg literally just wanders off to the Scuttle Ward and stands there, and enemies come. She doesn't try to run anything, except for maybe a few AAs that meant nothing, and were more likely to try and cover the fact she was intentionally feeding.

19:02 - Morg just runs through the enemy bot duo doing nothing, getting herself once again instantly killed.

20:25ish - Morg once again goes to river to get herself killed, trying to 2v1 the enemy team without running or trying to do anything except maybe 2-3 AAs. It should've been fully and 100% obvious that it would do nothing at this point, the Kindred and Sona being far ahead.

22:10ish - Morg runs out into middle of enemy team again (3 of them) by herself and gets herself instantly killed. Obviously intentionally feeding.

23:10 - Morg wanders into a teamfight, and just stands still, only staying alive enough for me to finish killing the ones immediately there because of Lulu shielding her. I basically prevented her attempt to intentionally feed there.

24:00 - But fear not, where would Morg be without the trusty Kindred to run headfirst into by herself so she can still feed anyways. Still no point in E, or even her ult yet.

25:00 - Decides to stand in extremely close proximity to enemies with extremely low health and just try to AA a few minions. Gets herself killed instantly. Suspicious? I'd say so.

25:50 - Legit just runs headfirst into 3 of enemy team, instantly gets killed yet again.

26:46 - Runs headfirst into Ahri by herself doing nothing, and gets herself killed instantly once again.

28:00 Decides to chase after enemy Poppy to try and feed once again, but Poppy backs until Illaoi backs because of Kindred. Sona walks across her while she's just trying to AA few minions out in the middle of nowhere meaninglessly, and instantly kills her.

29:05 - Morg runs straight into enemy team backline and stands still until Ahri kills her.

30:21 - Morg repeats this, runs straight at enemy Ahri to get melted instantly.

21:20 - Runs straight into triple enemy team to get herself killed yet again once instantly. STILL NO POINT IN E. Also, something I feel like I should mention. I forget when, iirc, it was around 16-20m mark, she said that she doesn't care about reports at all in our teamchat because they'll do nothing anyways. She continues to start bragging about how no one will be able to do anything to her, because Riot never punishes people like her supposedly, and gleefully laughs at the rest of us. She continued on to continually mock the justice system and how everyone else was taking the game way too seriously and how we should just chill/relax because it was just a game.

entitledplayer2 votes

Most of this is consistent, yet I'll believe the verbal exchange when I see F12'd screenshots or the chatlogs supplied by a Rioter for this match -- if they have the power to do that.

Alot of these deaths were plain mistakes by you however -- Not by Morgana 100% of the time.

More like 45%.

Mainly:

Positioning, survival instincts, not respecting your level disadvantage and walking up on a support with a CC ultimate, or not respecting Kindred's high-mobilty trade and poke potential on a low-mobility backline like Jhin, or not getting out all of your damage and kiting effectively and fighting tooth and nail to make the comeback turns during laning phase.

The feeding is blatant, but the trigger that set him off was you -- irregardless of your intentions, how you came off wasn't good -- and it wasn't a strong match from you, after analyzing it 15 times.

I know you can do much better than this.

Astôlfo1 votes

I do, and as I've repeatedly said, I acknowledge the fact I'm not that good. I'm a Kindred main. I know how they work. I also haven't played Jhin in a while. I still knew Jhin is a lot less mobile, but specializes in heavy damage and execute. I also do know I messed up warding, positioning, and similar.

Literally all I was saying about that early was that if Morg invested even one point in to E, it would have helped out tremendously. It's not for the point of trying to reduce their damage. What it would do is completely nullify their attempts at CC (Kindred's E, Sona's ult, her passive's slow ability Power Chord version).

I do admit that it was probably harsh for me to tell her she wasn't doing that good and should probably have kept silent. However, it was hardly inflammatory either way. And the Morg wasn't really intending on helping out either way in most cases, given the way she started playing, from literally the very moment the game started. And, since you like game logs so much, take a check at the Morg's. I assure you, it'll be interesting.

entitledplayer2 votes

{quoted}

Literally all I was saying about that early was that if Morg invested even one point in to E, it would have helped out tremendously. It's not for the point of trying to reduce their damage. What it would do is completely nullify their attempts at CC (Kindred's E, Sona's ult, her passive's slow ability Power Chord version).

Every ADC and support knows that once they learn abilities -- Doesn't mean he has to do it at all, despite it being good if/when they did and happened -- Black shields from Morg would block out a large mitigation of magic damage from Sona and other cc effects in fights and in lane.

It's pretty unlucky that happened.

I do admit that it was probably harsh for me to tell her she wasn't doing that good and should probably have kept silent. However, it was hardly inflammatory either way. And the Morg wasn't really intending on helping out either way in most cases, given the way she started playing, from literally the very moment the game started. And, since you like game logs so much, take a check at the Morg's. I assure you, it'll be interesting.

Morg doesn't need to be addressed, she'll see her own justice by Riot's hands should (s)he have caught a charge from a report on her.

The person being discussed is you.

It's good you understand your faults, but you're not responsible of reminding others of theirs.

They tend to not respect or appreciate it, especially if/when you don't successfully communicate it in a way that can be constructive.

xVARIANTx1 votes

Ofc, you never said you didn't make any mistakes, you just graciously point out all of hers. There might be something left unsaid where you two almost got a double kill early on. Did you possibly make any mistakes there that would cause this player to lose her confidence in you? THAT right there would be bad on her part but would make some sense.

So you don't think that unprompted criticism is not rude? What if I went up to you and said, 'that is not a very good hairstyle' or 'that is not a very good physique you have'. Your perception on what is rude and what is not needs some work. Just because you didn't include any curse words does not make your statement not rude.

So you're saying she did nothing until she though she could get a kill. You mean until an opportunity presented it self? For some reason you're placing a lot of emphasis on auto-attacks. I don't know what mmr this would be anyways since this is a normal game and not ranked, no reason for such a lengthy post about a support but anyways. You make it sound like she's trying to KS everything yet she's doing literally nothing. One big thing, if she's not doing anything she's not taking your cs. Also, maybe staying low-key is what nearly got you two a double kill early on?

"Good job, another fucking idiot who doesn't read anything and leaps to assumptions." Rofl, now the real you comes out. Good job sounding like an angel up until this point. And it's 'jumps to conclusions', lawl. We're all reading dude, it's just that we're reading between the lines too.

This whole thing about her trying to take your kill might just be paranoia on your part however if you and her both get the kill, it's better than nothing. And if she does take the kill, welp, it's a normals game. Not the best thing but maybe she lost confidence in you early on.

Ok you're right about the Jhin/Kindred thing, good job.

WHAT ITEM was it that was "full ap"?? Was it a zhonya's?? Because that too would make some sense.

"baseless random insuling assumptions, right? ;)" Insulting assumptions is what I think you mean and what about what I said was insulting? Oh wait, do you think I was being rude to you? Am I being condescending too? I didn't use any rude words, I just criticized your perspective.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh, I thought it was a given people aren't perfect. I was pointing out what the Morg wasn't doing well because it was so specifically out of the ordinary. And I was trying to farm safely when I could, and poke occasionally. There was nothing extreme enough to warrant her attitude. I did make mistakes here and there, but nothing major.

How is it unwarranted? She would literally do nothing to help me or anyone else in my team in teamfights. I told them that because they weren't supporting. They weren't even trying at all. And as mentioned before, they were intentionally feeding as hard as they could in mid/late game. If you told me that, I wouldn't really care, but I might consider it with a grain of salt and re-evaluate myself or ask others for another opinion.

And no, we almost got a double because I had execute damage on fourth shot plus her root, and they overextended. After that, she'd just stay behind tower and do nothing. And by only coming out for a kill, I meant it as in, she would just walk around behind tower. When she sees someone is almost dead (as in, entirely my effort through poke and such), she'd come out and root and W and try to AA. She usually didn't get it, and so after the fight, she'd just go back to walking around behind tower and doing nothing.

People like you are the actual problem. You know nothing, yet you try to assume everything and proceed to bash someone on something you imagined up. And I'm not an angel at all, lol. I just know enough to keep it civil in-game.

And see, I don't mind if they were helping out and get the kill whether intentional or not. If we get a kill? the whole team benefits. But she'd literally only come out when they had sub-100 health, and it was a situation where I could have done it or they'd get away, with or without her help. I would say that's fair to say she's not trying to help, but just pad her own KDA.

No, it wasn't Zhonya's. She went Ionian Boots and was trying to work on Morello. Soooo.… Also, her first items were Doran/2pots.

Yes, it's called a typo. I don't appreciate when people criticize others without actually knowing the circumstances and full situation.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning, that upon checking their OP.GG natch history, they've had a long history of pulling crap like this.

IDislikeYourMeta1 votes

{quoted}

After that, she'd just stay behind tower and do nothing. And by only coming out for a kill, I meant it as in, she would just walk around behind tower. When she sees someone is almost dead (as in, entirely my effort through poke and such), she'd come out and root and W and try to AA. She usually didn't get it, and so after the fight, she'd just go back to walking around behind tower and doing nothing.

This is actually my first time posting on this forum, and I felt the need to, just 'cause this thread is so funny.

A) Yes, I'll concede that the player is fundamentally bad at the game for multiple reasons, mainly deciding to feed once they were tilting. HOWEVER, your actions are mainly the direct cause of said feeding. Everyone has bad games. And everyone has the right to theory craft and try new things, especially in normals. You being a twat and saying she was a "bad support" is you being toxic, regardless of the reason.

I often buy a normal AP or tank item first thing on a support, because I want to hit my power spike early before the other team. Trinkets now carry two wards, between ADC and support we can hold off until 2nd or even 3rd item without a sightward. Hell, with both picking up blue trinkets it's technically not needed at all sometimes. And I've seen bot lane wrecked a bunch by the other side's "support" Kat or Velkoz building full AP and destroying squishies.

Yes, she didn't ward much. But your Udyr who gets to roam freely warded even less. And the opposing mid laner warded less too. So bad habit? Yes. But she wasn't even the worst in the game.

Just because they aren't "supporting" you by healing or shielding doesn't mean they aren't "supporting" the whole team by trying to get kills and winning. I've had twice as many kills as the rest of my team as support Shaco and Malphite, carrying people like you who don't understand that it's a strategy game, not "do whatever one else does to please people without creativity or an understanding of strategy".

B) You say that she only came out from behind tower when you entirely on your lonesome 1 vs 2'd someone low enough to kill. But somehow they're high enough in health to survive her Q, W and then multiple auto attacks even when she's building straight AP. That's some lucky rabbit's foot shit or you're gravely overestimating your contributions or the state of the lane.

As well, standing at tower can easily be seen as a smart strategy. Morg is squishy as fuck. You could have very well been overextended. She pops out to snare when the enemy is obviously vulnerable when they're going for the easy ADC prey. And you claim she's just trying to KS.

I can't count the amount of times I've had an idiot ADC who is overextended with no vision in the middle of the wave against stronger opponents. There's the saying that "you can't fix stupid". Maybe she stayed back because she knew that you were easily gankable/killable in that position.

C) Everything you've said could be correct and you're being jumped on for no reason. However, right now it's just you bitching about someone who isn't here with holes in your story and a bad attitude. Everything that she did (with the exception of tilting and then feeding) can be explained.

This thread easily could have been the reverse, with her posting about an idiot ADC who had the nerve to be toxic for no reason which tilted her and she stopped caring about the game. And then people would be bitching at her for feeding and possibly being at fault. SEE HOW THIS WORKS?!

3TWarrior2 votes

one, he specifically mentioned that this player sniped support in pick (a bad point in blind games as it is...but we all want our desired position)

two, the player baited him for toxic behavior with common instigation words

three, anyone who understands that this is a strategy game will understand the value of a champion's kit and the effect it will have upon the opposing team. I realize that sometimes it is better to just get fed than to help a bad ADC, but rarely will any support scale into hard-carrying the game unless they are off-meta(which presents a host of other problems unrelated to this) and warding is supposed to solve the problem of overextension, but in a lane of morgana and jhin, there is actually very little risk of overextension by multiple crowd control opportunities, traps, spellshields and overall high early game damage

four, he has responded to numerous posts with details concerning morgana's behavior such as "waiting behind tower until an opponent only has 100 hp and then attempting to snipe the kill" paraphrased. you claim morgana is squishy? she is, but she is also one of the most bulky mage supports and has easy access to gold with frost queen's claim so there is no need to intentionally steal...morg is bad enough as it is with her damage over time snagging a kill

you are simply trying to start a confrontation at this point with your last paragraph and you actually discredited yourself by posting AGAINST the player you are trying to support

his negative behavior is minor at most and would be better served to explain how the game plays, but if morgana's actions are any indicator, she would have immediately left the game post game (so no explanation and continued toxic behavior) and probably would have baited him with more toxicity had he tried explaining normal game behavior in match while costing valuable farm time

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