Why are we banning people for verbal toxicity anyway?

Kolma·6/2/2019, 6:39:44 PM·11 votes·2,713 views

Doesn't really make sense. Any other sensible game just mutes the player permanently. Absolutely unnecessary. You'd get a much better result from permanent mutes rather than permanent bans. If you were to collect the statistics of how much toxicity goes down during a chat restriction, you'd be able to clearly see that its way more effective than banning someone from the game, who's either going to quit the game or just make a new account and then have a personal vendetta against the players and the game, causing even more toxicity. And if someone who's perma muted decides to escalate it to inting/griefing, then ban their account. Inting/griefing actually effect the game and there's not much you can really do about it other than report after the game. Someone just saying toxic things in chat might effect the game too, but there's definitely something you can do about it. It's called the mute button. I'm not really sure when league turned into club penguin, but if the goal is to reduce toxicity in league, then perma mutes is a good way to dampen it. But thats not the actual goal, people just want to make the mad people madder.

26 Comments

Umbral Regent6/2/2019, 6:59:39 PM13 votes

Any other sensible game just mutes the player permanently. Absolutely unnecessary. You'd get a much better result from permanent mutes rather than permanent bans.

Riot tried what amounted to permanent chat restrictions before - or rather, indefinitely escalating chat restrictions. Players under those longer-scale restrictions typically used all of their allotted chat for hardcore flaming, and the others typically resorted to trolling or intentionally feeding.

And that's just for chat restrictions. Take away their ability to chat entirely, and that would almost certainly result in a noticeable uptick in trolling and intentional feeding, which is not a much better result.

If you were to collect the statistics of how much toxicity goes down during a chat restriction, you'd be able to clearly see that its way more effective than banning someone from the game...

Yes, Riot does have data that says that the vast majority of players who get chat restricted don't get punished again; and those that do seldom get punished a third time, and so on, and so on.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are people who are belligerent and will continue to be toxic no matter how many warnings you give them. That being said, the fact that a majority of players tend to reform after the first (few) punishment(s) doesn't serve as a good argument for removing permanent suspensions as a punishment.

And if someone who's perma muted decides to escalate it to inting/griefing, then ban their account.

You say that like it's just that simple. It isn't.

Griefing, trolling, and intentional feeding is pretty fuckin' hard to detect, blatantly obvious cases (like running down mid) notwithstanding.

And, of course, I have to reiterate this; employing permanent mutes would result in an uptick of intentional feeders and trolls. Do you really want more trolls and feeders in exchange for belligerently toxic players being allowed to play the game despite them breaking the rules several times?

Someone just saying toxic things in chat might effect the game too, but there's definitely something you can do about it. It's called the mute button.

Muting it doesn't prevent the player from typing, though. Even if you mute them, the odds are high that they're still going to focus more on typing up a storm of vitriol - however fruitless it would be - instead of playing the game.

And in that respect, you're just as powerless to do anything about a flamer as you are about an intentional feeder.

I'm not really sure when league turned into club penguin...

This is a laughable hyperbolic statement at best, and frankly, making such a statement really only serves to damage your argument. If you're going to start making mocking comments about the game and how Riot handles Player Behavior, then I have a hard time believing that you're here for a legitimate discussion.

...but if the goal is to reduce toxicity in league, then perma mutes is a good way to dampen it.

No, permanent mutes would be a good way to narrow down the toxicity into something that's altogether harder to accurately detect. It would not reduce the toxicity; it would generally just make it worse.

But thats not the actual goal, people just want to make the mad people madder.

  1. That's a strawman argument,
  2. You're also trying to superimpose what you perceive as the community's goal over Riot's goal as an argument against permanent bans. That doesn't work.

Riot's goal is to reduce toxicity; even if the community's goal was to make toxic players madder (which it isn't, unless you can speak for millions of players all at once), that wouldn't change Riot's goals at all, so it, as an argument, is invalid.

Now to answer the question posed from the title;

Why are we banning people for verbal toxicity anyway?

Because Riot isn't going to give people umpteen chances to continue breaking the rules. At some point, they have to put their foot down and show players that continued misbehavior won't be tolerated, and the permanent ban is frankly the best way to go about doing just that.

R107 Games6/2/2019, 6:50:07 PM11 votes

It's simply because the community is that sensetive. They'd rather chose to be offended and consciously decide to keep reading text from the player that flames them, instead of muting or ignoring and moving the hell on.

Some people are mentally incapable of doing the bare minimum of dealing with a flamer, which is why Riot punishes it despite the mute button

True Garen6/3/2019, 3:19:21 AM8 votes

This is a good idea. It's my own policy in similar matters. Especially where Riot allows the players to just make new accounts, giving them a permanent mute would tend to keep some of them in their current, invested account, just not talking anymore.

Besides, they can't offend anybody anymore. The more that I think about this, I really need to wonder why they don't just do it this way.

Dynikus6/2/2019, 6:41:58 PM5 votes

Doesn't really make sense. Any other sensible game just mutes the player permanently.

Yeah, that's bullshit. Can you name some that actually do that? Riot also tried that before, it doesn't work. Your arguments are based off of nothing, and actually have proof to the contrary of what you're suggesting is true.

GatekeeperTDS6/2/2019, 7:37:56 PM4 votes

This thread again.

Whether you believe it or not, people don't enjoy having negativity in their games. Riot wants people who can't behave and can't reform to stop playing the game. And since you're dismissive of everyone else in this thread, there's no need for you to reply to me. Your arguments have been put forth thousands of times, they don't hold water, and nobody wants to cater to people who can't behave. If that's you, too bad. Find another game.

NagatoFan16/2/2019, 11:05:50 PM3 votes

I've actually contacted Riot Support SEVERAL times asking them to give my account a perm chat restriction and basically was told no every time because "the player is responsible for their actions" like hi, I'm literally here TRYING and Riot is refusing to help me (note I was only ever toxic in chat I never intentionally fed or even left the game I just trash talk).

hrooza dota 6/3/2019, 3:04:45 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't really make sense. Any other sensible game just mutes the player permanently.

dota 2 do 6 months bans now for those who get reported often and when i say reported often i mean any kind of report can result in that.