Boards›Player Behavior

Just my 2 cents.

You No Flame Me·9/24/2018, 9:34:32 PM·1 votes·1,590 views
ignore the doc

Ignore the doc and read on the left. This is just my opinion on Riot's perma-ban system.

The highlights:

  • No incentive to "be good" punishment > reform in this system -fighting fire with fire "be good or we'll ban you" -chat restriction is counter-active. people just save up messages to finish an argument or flame harder than normal in my experience. -temp bans are irrelevant. just play a different game for a week before coming back and getting right back into it. even if you come back with good intentions, other players can quickly light the fire. I shouldn't have to mute teammates in a team game. -the most obvious reform test (allowing a player to return to the account for a small amount of time) isn't even an option.

I'm not trying to sound like a salty random that is upset about being perma'd. This is a legit problem. "Threatening to ban" is basically the same attitude you're trying to prevent. There is little to no incentive to refrain or change behavior. Please don't claim the honor system combats this because we both know the rewards are meh and it's next to impossible to climb back into honor once it's been broken. Implement a game-wide recidivism program (like you already have for a select few special folks) You lose nothing as a company and have the potential of making thousands of people's days. Worst case, someone gets called a buttface and you return it to a banned state for good. Giving people zero chance to actually reform, not just abide by the chat restrictions, would work wonders.

GG WP!

3 Comments

Imperial Pandaa9/24/2018, 11:18:48 PM2 votes

Let me lead by saying I'm just referring to the highlights you posted. My phone isn't good for zooming in to read images.

[{quoted}](name=You No Flame Me,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cccdpxE4,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-24T21:34:32.262+0000)

The highlights:

  • No incentive to "be good" punishment > reform in this system

The incentive is access to free stuff such as hextech chests, key fragments, and most recently your ranked rewards

-fighting fire with fire "be good or we'll ban you"

If you fight fire with fire, the game goes from having 1 toxic person (min) to having 2 toxic people (min). Like, if you really feel like saying something I recommend "Sorry, did you say something?" At worse it's passive aggressive, and at best it actually gets them to stop because they realize you don't care what they say. If they continue, mute. Don't risk your stuff.

-chat restriction is counter-active. people just save up messages to finish an argument or flame harder than normal in my experience.

Which is why we don't have infinite scaling Chat Restrictions along with people changing to the more annoying to detect method of trolling. Flaming during a CR is likely to go ahead and get the next punishment too.

-temp bans are irrelevant. just play a different game for a week before coming back and getting right back into it. even if you come back with good intentions, other players can quickly light the fire. I shouldn't have to mute teammates in a team game.

Temp bans are meant to be a warning. If people choose to ignore the warning, that can't really be the fault of the company. In this case, I suppose Riot could put bigger bolder letters that say "YOUR NEXT PUNISHMENT WILL BE A PERMANENT BAN!. It does say the next will be a perm though.

You are right, we shouldn't have to mute team mates but that again is a person by person thing and not company. Outside of removing chat, what can they really do? Then we lose a fun tool that people can use without issue.

-the most obvious reform test (allowing a player to return to the account for a small amount of time) isn't even an option.

The first one (reform test: Lvl 20 challenge) they did failed miserable. There is actually an experiment going on right now though. They gave some players back permed accounts to see if reformed. Still going on currently I believe.

GG

Without the threat of potentially losing whatever investment someone put in, people wouldn't care. If people think they can do whatever without repercussions then people abuse that freedom. Whether you agree or not, rewards from the honor system as previously mentioned is the incentive. As well as keeping an account you invested time and maybe money into.

Climbing out of dishonourable is different for each person. Some do it in a month or two, which is also a normal amount for non dishonorable to advance normally. Some even do it in about 2 weeks.

We can't accurately determine the cost of giving the accounts back. Initially it wouldn't, but would it down the line? Same argument against people who say "Riot should just hire people to do manual reviews instead of IFS. They make x amount anyways." Initially it is affordable, but how long until it isn't?

People have multiple chances to reform. Assuming they don't skip ajy tiers they have after the 10 game CR, the 25 game CR, and the 14 day ban. That is 3 chances right there.

Silent Gravity9/24/2018, 11:31:56 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=You No Flame Me,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cccdpxE4,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-24T21:34:32.262+0000)

-temp bans are irrelevant. -the most obvious reform test (allowing a player to return to the account for a small amount of time) isn't even an option. Implement a game-wide recidivism program (like you already have for a select few special folks) You lose nothing as a company and have the potential of making thousands of people's days. Worst case, someone gets called a buttface and you return it to a banned state for good. Giving people zero chance to actually reform, not just abide by the chat restrictions, would work wonders.

...Giving the account back after a 14 day ban IS the reform test. It IS the recividism program. It IS the chance to actually reform. It DOES work fairly well according to what Riot has told us.

They have said that most who receive a 10 game chat restriction never receive another. Most of those who receive a 25 game chat restriction never receive another punishment. Most of those who receive a 14 day ban never receive another punishment. Most of the people who receive a permanent ban never come back.

Those that do come back after a permanent ban, generally continue receiving punishments.

Their data suggests that people who don't reform after 3 punishments are not going to reform. Giving additional steps after that point does not reform players, it only gives those players the opportunity to ruin more games.