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My brilliant plan for a better level 1-30 experience

ModWuks·12/20/2015, 9:32:44 PM·81 votes·5,429 views

The amount of time a player needs to invest to get from level 1 to level 30 is considerable. However, if you win more games, you'll level up faster than if you lose. This creates a hyper competitive atmosphere at level 1-30 for most players, and they'll try their hardest to play to win rather than play to learn or play to have fun, defeating the purpose of the barrier between level 1-30.

Now, if we reduced the difference of experience between wins and losses as players level, I think that players would be less inclined to try hard and do everything in their power to win. This might lead to a reduction in toxicity, a reduction in negative experiences for new players, and generally a better experience for everyone overall. These XP adjustments would only affect normal, player vs. player Summoners Rift queues, so there'll still be plenty of time to identify bots as they level and ban 'em out.

Your thoughts are always appreciated :) Thanks for reading!

97 Comments

Jubbinaut12/20/2015, 9:38:31 PM38 votes

Honestly, I don't know why Summoner experience is dependent on w/l in the first place - seems silly to me.

In fact, most of the leveling experience feels very much like unnecessary gating at this point. I think the whole thing deserves another look. Among other things, I don't see any particular benefit to slowing the leveling rate as players get higher. It seems like a holdover from MMOs that serves no real purpose here.

waspcreaturesx12/21/2015, 8:15:44 AM13 votes

I may be part of the unpopular opinion but leveling to 30 was not bad whatsoever. I just got to 30 about two weeks ago, and before that the grind didn't bother me at all. I was more focused on leveling my mastery scores with various champions that I liked. I didn't even save or start buying any runes until I hit level 30, and I did fine against players with full rune pages.

The only REAL problem with being a new player are smurf accounts. Other than that, all other players dealt with the same shitty tutorial and shitty recommended items. At the same time, you can't give new players everything. You can't just automatically recommend them the best build path for their character, as it is constantly changing and it's something they need to learn on their own. A player who wants to be better should know to look up guides. Watch streamers. Watch YouTube videos. Do your studying. It's a hard game to adjust to. It takes a long time to know EVERYTHING. Ultimately, I don't think the tutorial is THAT bad. It leaves a lot to be desired, but I don't feel like I was incredibly lost as a newbie.

The Internet is a powerful thing. If you're dissatisfied with the information the game gives you, look up more.

As far as experience gains, I personally didn't even realize wins gave you more exp. I didn't usually look at the numbers and leveling happened pretty fast anyways. I feel like a lot of people have the natural "play to win" competitive attitude regardless. Even if wins gave the same exp as losses, a lot of people would still be focused on winning. It's in our nature. There has to be SOME reward for winning. It makes sense to me at least that when you show you're a decent player (by winning a lot of games) you progress to level 30 faster. If you're a bad player and lose an obnoxious amount, the game merely holds you back because you have more to learn. When you learn what you're doing wrong, you'll fix it and be on your path to winning.

TLDR; The new user experience is not as bad as people make it out to be. New players have extra sources they can take advantage of (Google, YouTube, twitch). Runes don't make THAT much of a difference. And more exp for winning encourages people who are getting the hang of the game, and holds back those who have more to learn. It's there for a reason.

500000000000000012/20/2015, 9:36:40 PM8 votes

Wouldn't this also make more bot accounts, since they can gain level quickly even if they lose?

iainB8512/22/2015, 12:32:26 AM4 votes

My brilliant plan for a better level 1-30 experience: Remove it completely.

Seriously. It serves no purpose. Let people just start their account with access to all the summoner spells and start actually learning how to play the game for real. Start them out at a "newb mmr" and adjust based on performance. What is the value of starting to learn the game without Flash?

Why even have this grind leveling up system other than League is an F2P game and Riot needs to milk money out of people buying IP and EXP boosts on alternate accounts?

IcyPepper12/20/2015, 9:37:38 PM4 votes

I like it. It might slow down smurf leveling a bit, but I don't think Riot really caters to that and honestly, if it's a big deal they can buy an XP boost. They already have an actual experience advantage over new players, they don't need mechanics to cater to them.

Cindikle12/21/2015, 2:50:58 AM4 votes

I'd be fine with this. As long as Ranked restrictions were changed.

The time a new player spends leveling is to learn the game from the bottom up.

But there a number of problems with this

The tutorial is bad and outdated.
Recommended items are bad and outdated.
Toxic players make it hard for new players to learn. This is a game you will learn by trial and error. You have to understand why you do something because thinking on your own is a huge importance.
Team play and how to teamfight isn't really learned well. Especially now. I can't imagine trying to learn anything past laning phase with how snowbally this game is right now.

There's a lot this game needs to help newer players. Leveling to 30 or not really doesn't change that.

Personally I'd rather see leveling done away with.

Make two MMR's. One is tied to the account, the other is tied to a champion. Playing a new champion allows you to face lower MMR enemies, but not completely new players.

Rune slots would be fully unlocked with a few pre-set pages for AP, AD and Tank. I believe this means everyone will require a free page. Perhaps each champion will have a recommended rune page setup for rolls on their champion page. With a note about them only being a guideline.

Ranked will now require the same 16 champions, but all of these champions must be a mastery rank 2 a set # of unlocked T3 runes. Maybe enough to fill all 3 of the free rune pages.

With this a new player can explore all they want. A twink can focus on a champion to get ahead. Which will quickly separate them from the new players. Ranked is restricted enough that a new player cannot jump right in.

Baculus12/21/2015, 7:43:38 AM2 votes

Winning players should be 'rewarded' with bigger numbers. Both XP and IP. It's silly to receive the same compensation regardless of performance. It would also make botting more lucrative.

You also overlook that, regardless, players will average out to a 50/50 win/loss rate so this won't change much at all as far as pacing goes. The end result will just be making winning be a little less fun.

Mael bro12/20/2015, 10:16:22 PM2 votes

It's pointless you can't stop smurfing. Eventually a new player will run into a more experienced player with an already existing account and be greatly shocked with the community of this game.

Zenanii12/20/2015, 10:58:45 PM2 votes

I've been trying to get a friend into LoL and he's been really put off by the initial grind. He's familiar with mobas, but facing off against opponents with extra stats from runes and masteries can be extremely discouraging.

A couple of suggestions:

Make leveling linear (same ammount of exp needed each level) Allow players to chose which new summoner spell to unlock on level up (playing against other people who have flash when you don't feels absolutely horrible, and I find it ridiculous you literally can't play jungle before level 5). Allow tier 3 runes to be purchased from lvl 1, but you need to unlock each rune slot for tier 3 (in the same way you currently unlock rune slots). You do not need to unlock rune slots to slot tier 1 runes anymore. (Makes it more fair and also allows players to play around with different rune page layouts while unlocking slots for tier 3) Make tier 1 rune equivalents for every tier 3 rune (there are currently a ton missing) Remove tier 2 runes (they're just traps for wasting IP and just lead to over all frustration).

About the original topic: I don't feel there is a need to make losses more forgiving and wins less rewarding. If your matchmaking is working oka-ish (and I know, smurfs kinad messess it up in lower levels) players should be able to maintain ~40% win rate at the very least. If players feel they're progressing too slowly it would seem to me it's a problem with the overall progression system as opposed to the rewards for winning. Basically if you can't enjoy LoL before reaching 30, you shouldn't focus on making the grind easier, you should make the grind less frustrating in the first place.

BlueThingamajig12/20/2015, 11:56:13 PM2 votes

I think its too simple of a solution. I think it would make for an interesting experiment for Riot to try, and while obv I don't have any proof, I don't think it would make a difference for lower tiers.

Edit: What I mean is that I don't think XP is a motivating factor for most early level players. The idea and satisfaction of winning is more significant, imo, rather than any number at low level play.

Clockwork Madoka12/21/2015, 2:33:02 AM2 votes

1: Overhaul the rune system. I'm level 25 and have spent over 10k IP on runes, and I honestly wish I could have gotten a new champ instead, rather than being forced to get runes so i can be at all competent.

2: Have all summoner spells unlocked right from the get-go, and give something else has a level reward (forcing people to get below-average spells is bad. You are also unable to jungle due to the lack of smite)

3: Rather being a win of the day, add new possible ways to get the daily IP. Not sure how, but it would be nice to not be forced to play bots if I want to guarantee I get the IP.

I also have a friend who has been at a disadvantage in every game we play for the reasons stated above. He couldn't jungle for a long time because he didn't have smite. Laning was difficult because he didn't have runes as well.

Immortal MadMan12/21/2015, 8:02:37 AM2 votes

no. Bad players deserve little exp because they are noob!! riot needs to punish them also with bans if they lose like 5 games in a row.

VLsW4Li0eM12/21/2015, 4:05:06 PM2 votes

What about the many people who play to win, who could get swamped by people who are just levelling up smurf or extra accounts (or even website services levelling up accounts to sell) who don't give 2 hecks about a victory, and ruin the game by not trying at all because they know they'll get the same experience?

I think it's good to encourage a competitive atmosphere and place more reward on a win. Just my 2 cents.

Korillo12/21/2015, 4:14:39 PM2 votes

I think they need to cut the time it takes to level a new account by at least half as well. It takes about 150 hours to level an account right now and that's too long imo.

EvilDustMan12/21/2015, 4:37:06 PM2 votes

I agree, Wuks. In fact, I would go even further. You need to play a certain amount of Bots games before you can unlock PVP. It would help build MMR. If you had to play, say, 7 bots games, just to get the concepts down, the person with 18/0/5 is pretty obviously a smurf, they can go off with the other smurfs.

I think this talk about not making good players is a problem Wuks is trying to address. I notice several people worrying about having MORE NOOBS. Well, they won't be in your MMR if you are so worried. And maybe Riot can start adding better guides for playing. Blizzard started making more indepth guides to playing their classes.

Maybe Riot, around level 25 or so, should offer links to guides on more complex concepts for the players to start mastering.

This is a game, guys, there shouldn't be a huge grind and a system mastery barrier.

ExcaIibur Morgan12/22/2015, 3:54:53 AM2 votes

I don't know about other people but I was playing to learn, not win. I would have liked to take even longer to hit 30 so I could learn more before I hit the difficulty curve. Even after hitting 30, I didn't feel like I accomplished anything and I was put up against players that actually kind of knew how to play the game.

ModWuks12/27/2015, 1:14:23 PM2 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/59f85caa53caa9c3921b66704d20e74b.png

I mean:

22:39 game length for 78XP (Intermediate Co-Op vs. AI Win) 45:31 game length for 86XP (Normal Summoner's Rift Loss)

:/

No surrender12/21/2015, 6:26:06 AM1 votes

Between 29th and 30th level there is many times a BIG gap. Your system have one flaw - it is not balanced.

Let's say that John has been playing for entire weekend, he lost 90% of games, but he like this game so much that he started to read a lot of guides, tips, streams, etc. etc.

Now when John came back to game he is like 500% more effective than he was two days ago - it is not balanced. And yes, I think that this is possible to get a 500% increased performance for newbies by reading internet.

S H A Y C 012/21/2015, 7:12:00 PM1 votes

This wont stop the toxic tryhard smurfs from ruining the new player experience. i think that should be addressed while were on topic.

AdanYEva12/21/2015, 3:48:06 AM1 votes

RIOT! HIRE THIS MAN!

Deep Terror Nami12/20/2015, 9:53:56 PM1 votes

Do you know how HotS does the "First Win of the Day" bonuses? Instead of just winning one match a day, it gives you a "quest" each day that consists of playing 2-8 games. Up to three quests can be saved, and you don't have to win the match.

There are several benefits of managing daily bonuses this way. What do you think of it?

Edit: You can also complete overlapping requirements of multiple quests in a single match (such as play mid lane and play mage, you just play a mage in mid lane to do both at once).

Tenzosan1/7/2016, 6:28:58 PM1 votes

The problem with leveling isn't so much the experience; It is more the recycled toxic players. Players who have lost their accounts are making new ones and starting over just as toxic as before. They fill the lower levels with hate speech and show them the ugly side of the community before the players even get to the ranking scene. Leveling in itself is a learning process and teaches the more valuable things like performing well and winning garners a better reward therefore try your best even if your best falls short. But again, with recycled toxic players flooding the gates and creating a negative experience for lower levels only spreads that toxic behavior around faster.

Nyanthe12/23/2015, 5:43:07 AM1 votes

How about a special program for experienced players to get bonus xp/ip by helping out a newbie. Maybe make special games where people can play like that, with a special pause for tutorial/discussion function. That way if you see someone struggling to play a game they clearly are not ready for you can earn a bit of extra something by taking the time to help them out instead of insulting them.