"Self defense" is inaccurate at best guys...

Anastaecia·3/2/2018, 2:42:23 PM·25 votes·1,722 views

Seems like at least half the people that get restricted/banned use the "self defense" reasoning.

Self defense in a non-physical state is referred to as "de-escalation," trying to talk someone down from an excited state. Well, this only applies to actual salty chatters. Inters, trolls, etc can't be done anything about. Inters don't care if you talk to them. Trolls WANT you to talk to them. This leaves actual bad CHAT. Well, you really don't have the time (you need to play, not type) or know-how (most of us) to make someone not be salty in a 30m environment. Just mute them and move on. As far as the others (Inters, trolls), unfortunately it's part of the game. Chances are you have had snowball wins because the troll was on the other team. I mean how many times in post chat have you seen the enemy team bitching at each other. Guess what, you prob just got a freelo but didn't even realize it.

Remember, in the end, you aren't climbing to gold (or w/e your goal) on one game.

54 Comments

Awf Meta3/2/2018, 3:57:33 PM10 votes

Self defense in a non-physical state is referred to as "de-escalation," trying to talk someone down from an excited state.

WTF is that definition?

Self - a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action.

Defense - the action of defending from or resisting attack.

De-escalate - to decrease in intensity, magnitude, etc.

self-defense -the defense of one's person or interests

Self defense and de-escalation are different. One can defend themselves whether the situation de-escalates or escalates. De-escalation is a result. Self defense is an action.

es·ca·late = verb self-de·fense = noun

Telephone Booth3/2/2018, 11:24:17 PM4 votes

Yeah let's just be real, they aren't defending themselves, they're retaliating.

JarodDempsey3/2/2018, 10:06:20 PM4 votes

I'm glad the world doesnt work like riot wants leagues chat system to work. Pretty soon flat earther's would be ubiquitous and "9/11" would be synonymous to "inside job".

What im saying is that verbally defending yourself shouldnt be discouraged (which is what riot currently does since they consistently promote that argument that you cant verbally defend yourself) because it incentivizes people to spout off nonsense whenever they see fit since theyll have no consequences as long as they dont use a prohibited word.

It is important to make the distinction between defending based on unfounded statements, eg you shouldnt stoop to their level.

For example if there is a feeder on your team who consistently blames you for not following their engage, then calling them trash is acceptable because theyre playing like trash (by constantly inting even though they are weaker than their opponents). Your argument is based on their poor choices and not simply made up to defame them. In the same situation if the same feeder was blaming you for not assisting their fail engages and you instead decided to tell them to "kys" then that is inappropriate since it has no bearing on the current match and is completely baseless.

Now in the above example riot would argue that both options serve only to enflame the situation and would advise you to simply mute the feeder instead. This is not always the best course of action for two reasons. 1: eventually the feeder could convince your teammates that you are indeed the reason for their failure even though that's not true (ie failing to address false information can lend it some apparent (although false) credibility) 2: Slights against you that go unanswered are further slights against you (ie choosing not to defend yourself can further harm yourself). While many people can choose to bear the wrongs of the 2nd reason, no one should be forced to bear the wrongs of the first reason. Cases such as those can deny players hard earned honors as well as respect at the end of the match. Respect may not be tangible but honor is (as much as virtual accolades are tangible lol) and so now the offending party has done more than simply insult you or defame you they've caused you further slights as well as effective future harm.

What this really comes down to is riot being lazy about moderating discourse so they take a hugely wide brush and just paint everything over with "you cant verbally defend yourself, just mute them" This is quite evident in the automated chat system where we see logs posted almost daily of people getting banned for no valid reason and almost never does riot revert such cases.

TLDR riot is wrong about self defence in chat, it can be done and should be allowed.

Azure Hamster3/2/2018, 3:53:55 PM2 votes

Statistically, if you're not a troll, you get trolls on your team 4 times for every 5 times they're on the opposing team (assuming one troll per game).

Caitlyn

SephAgro3/2/2018, 11:08:57 PM2 votes

God I hate the "be da bigger man" people. Self defense is an act, the goal is to prevent or restore self from harm from another. This can involve escalation or de escalation. You don't get to decide on method. Go be a bigger man somewhere else.

Zonderic3/3/2018, 5:55:56 PM2 votes

[deleted]

TattooedOni3/4/2018, 12:23:06 AM2 votes

"Self-defense" in chat is nonsense. Nothing a random person says can actually harm you, and nothing you respond with is going to teach them a lesson. It just takes focus away from plaything the game. If you want to play argument simulator there are tons of places on the internet that can help you achieve that.

woodvsmurph3/6/2018, 12:07:00 AM1 votes

So if a jungler ignores THREE danger pings and the fact the minions are in a position such that I cannot/should not logically be picking a fight at that time and comes top to gank... then dies 1v1 to my laner and feeds him double buffs I'm supposed to be silent while he tells everyone in game to report me? When his bullshit convinces our midlaner to back him up and harass me for the next 15 min while he continues to make dumb decisions and throw away our chances of winning, I'm supposed to just sit happily under my tower toplane getting 2v1 starved of xp and cs and say nothing.

When bot lane looks and sees I'm 1/3/0 and takes the side of our feeding jungler because he came bot once to help them, I'm supposed to not say anything. When jungle comes top after I back, steals a few minions and gives my opponent a lane freeze when I should have been walking back to a freeze by my tower I'm supposed to say nothing. When the team then forces a 3v5 at dragon while our mid is in base and I spam pinged my tp is on cd for 2 min and told them NOT to contest cloud dragon... but my team does and they get 3v5 aced. They flame me - despite the warnings I gave them and the fact there isn't even a ward for me to tp to if I could have used tp. I'm supposed to say nothing.

After 15 min of this bullshit and feeders turning on me and laners who actually did ok taking the side of those to flame me without justification, I'm supposed to... say nothing. Uh, huh. I don't know about you, but I'm not that nice. I'm patient. I'll explain things clearly, simply, and NICELY for quite a few times. But at some point, I get sick of getting flamed because people halfway across the map decide to suicide 3v4. Or getting flamed for doing "nothing" as I 1v2 grab a kill and force down a tower - meanwhile my team feeds to kills and loses a tower in a 4v3. I get tired of supports that miss all their abilities, offer no damage or tankiness, and tell me I'm not doing my job in a teamfight as I solo the enemy adc, zone 3 other people until my whole team is dead, and then I die and we got aced in a 5v5. Yes, surely I'm the one not doing my job there. No, assholes like that support need to be getting punished - not someone like me who more than did their job. Assholes like her who spend over half the game harassing (not offering useful advice; just flame) me instead of... trying to actually do their job. Not people who explain things nicely to their team DESPITE all they hate they send at me for 15 min... before losing it and telling them the truth harshly - they are being I D I O T S for forcing a 3v5 for the 10th time when we can't even win a 5v5 under our own tower and then blaming me for not teleporting in or flashing in to join them. How do you fix toxicity in the game? Well, you could punish players like me, but you'd still have the players like that zyra who would create more players like me - from having to put up with such toxicity and stupidity. Or... you could address the PROBLEM and remove players like her... preventing players like me from resorting to toxic replies because we wouldn't be putting up with 15+ min of stupidity and flame while politely trying to help said people understand the most basic logic. One fixes the problem and does so a lot faster. The other just removes kind helpful people from the game because they get fed up with bullshit while leaving the true source of the problem in the game to create more "toxic" people that speak the truth and tell toxic flamers what's what because they're fed up of listening to their nonsense.

Pandemic Punch3/3/2018, 6:35:59 PM1 votes

The problem is that in most cases, the instigator gets away with it and the person who retaliates gets the punishment. If one person rages and everyone ignores him, he gets away with it because it doesn't draw much attention. If the person who rages first gets punished consistently whether he is ignored or not, then there would be nothing to retaliate to in the first place.

The system isn't properly doing it's job if there is someone worth retaliating to in every game. "Just ignore him". OK... But they will continue getting away with it in every game if they are just ignored.