Boards›Player Behavior

Shouldn't Ghosting/stream sharing be reportable? If not, can we disable links in champion select?

Tormentula··2 votes·1,774 views

Recently had a ranked game where some streamer (won't say) linked his twitch in champion select. There was a dodge, and one of the guys that was on our side banned out all our hovers (+ vayne cause instincts.) and then practically followed him everywhere he went in the jungle, and bot lane went hard on us every time he even started walking up. Additionally somebody from his previous game also tracked him and steamrolled him in the jungle.

The game, as a result, was a hard stomp.

The worse part is I don't know which side is even reportable (if it is). The streamer who practically gave the info of our team away, or the people abusing it intentionally. Theoretically its the streamers fault for providing the information and the enemy team is just doing exactly what they need to do to win.

And we still have to be fair here; new streamers don't think about this.. Hell I've done this a couple times, but stopped because somebody did bring up the fact ghosting is a thing, good thing I never streamed ranked. There is no "Tip" or "warning about link sharing" that says "its not recommended to post your livestreams as you can be tracked and taken advantage of, costing not just your game, but the rest of your teammate's."

Is ghosting/stream sharing reportable? Can we please filter and disable links in competitive game modes? It should be well known never to link your twitch stream before a game begins (ghosting, distracting your team), but I don't see a reason why we even offer the option to post their stream pre-game (or in-game). i'm perfectly fine with post game advertising.

19 Comments

Kaioko3 votes

Honestly streamers providing the links at the game start should result in a warning and then punishment. People should still be able to post links as things like discord and others shouldn't be penalized for this.

I'm not playing league to get an advertisement about your stream or youtube channel or whatever.

YerroFever3 votes

I too have seen people announce they're streaming in all chat at the beginning of the game and post their twitch.

One game in particular comes to mind because it was such a roflstomp. I think someone on my team watched their stream and knew the whereabouts of the enemy team. Although the person didn't explicitly say they were watching the enemy team's streamer, it was kind of hinted at that they knew much more info than the rest of us. Amazing calls on fights in jungle, great timing on baron and dragon, great enemy has vision pings, etc...

I would consider it crappy behavior but not necessarily reportable because the other team had provided the information to us and someone decided to use it. They didn't hack the game or use exploits. The streamer just was kinda stupid and gave out their info. For my teammate who was most likely watching the stream, I would just call it really unsportsmanlike behavior. For the person who posted their stream info... I would say they're just dumb. I understand they want viewers but wait until the end so that players can follow you in your next game and not have an advantage on you in the current game.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

tbh new streamers do this because they want to rack up veiwers, but do this at their own risk. now, ghosting shouldn't be reportable, let alone because its the streamer that didn't wait till post lobby to post a link and therefore left themselves vulnerable. and that's not even getting into the complexities of how they would detect this in the first place.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

To my knowledge, neither one of those is reportable. Stream sharing certainly isn't. Players are allowed to share the links to their streams, and if they get ghosted enough times, they will learn that they can simply put a ghost-shield over their minimap, or a stream delay. While it's unfortunate that you lost a match because of their mistake, it wasn't because the player was deliberately trying to give the enemy team information about where he was, or where his team was.

And as far as ghosting, it's very hard to actually prove that someone is doing it. In fact, it's impossible for Riot to prove that, as Riot doesn't track outside streaming viewership. They would have no way of knowing whether a player happened to have a stream open on their computer at the same time. And all it would take is the person saying "I have really good instincts on jungle pathing." We all know it would be bullshit, but without proof, there's not really a way to definitively say otherwise.

If you'll notice, many of the newer high elo streamers who are playing with the more well-known ones always wait until the end of the match before advertising their streams. They never post it in the beginning. And that seems to be because they understand the dangers that can come with sharing that sort of information.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

To my knowledge, neither one of those is reportable. Stream sharing certainly isn't. Players are allowed to share the links to their streams, and if they get ghosted enough times, they will learn that they can simply put a ghost-shield over their minimap, or a stream delay. While it's unfortunate that you lost a match because of their mistake, it wasn't because the player was deliberately trying to give the enemy team information about where he was, or where his team was.

And as far as ghosting, it's very hard to actually prove that someone is doing it. In fact, it's impossible for Riot to prove that, as Riot doesn't track outside streaming viewership. They would have no way of knowing whether a player happened to have a stream open on their computer at the same time. And all it would take is the person saying "I have really good instincts on jungle pathing." We all know it would be bullshit, but without proof, there's not really a way to definitively say otherwise.

If you'll notice, many of the newer high elo streamers who are playing with the more well-known ones always wait until the end of the match before advertising their streams. They never post it in the beginning. And that seems to be because they understand the dangers that can come with sharing that sort of information.

Or just you know... Stop streaming. I don't know the point of streaming. Why do people like watching other people play a video game? I just don't get it. But that's beside the point, sorry, just venting lol

zPOOPz1 votes

$$$

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

$$$

Oh you get paid when people watch you? Do you know specifics at all? Like how many viewers it takes to start getting paid? Just curious. No biggy if you don't answer.

zPOOPz1 votes

I am not a streamer so I would not be able to tell you the specifics, but streamers can run ads on their stream and get paid by how many people viewed those ads (like youtube videos), they can have subscription to the stream and get paid a % of those, they can also get "cheered" by the amount of bits people have to buy with real money. As for the number of viewers you would need to be considered "getting paid" really depends on the person. Do you consider making $10 per day "getting paid"? Do you consider "getting paid" is when you make $1000 per day?

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

I am not a streamer so I would not be able to tell you the specifics, but streamers can run ads on their stream and get paid by how many people viewed those ads (like youtube videos), they can have subscription to the stream and get paid a % of those, they can also get "cheered" by the amount of bits people have to buy with real money. As for the number of viewers you would need to be considered "getting paid" really depends on the person. Do you consider making $10 per day "getting paid"? Do you consider "getting paid" is when you make $1000 per day?

I was thinking any amount. Yes 10 dollars. Was wondering when it goes from nothing, to generating ANY money even if it's just 1 cent. Again, I could find this on my own so I don't expect a response, but thank you for indulging me

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

Well, a lot of it depends on who the streamer is as well. For male streamers, they have to decide if they want to be more informative, someone like WingsofdeathX, entertaining, someone like BoxBox, or competitive, someone like Faker who has limited streaming when he's not practicing. There are a ton of "professional streamers" who do nothing but stream League as their career, and they make a considerable amount of money doing it. I dunno if you ever watch RedMercy's videos on YouTube, but he just showed his car off, and well, there's a reason they call him "richboi redmercy."

On the smaller end of things, I've been a moderator for streams that have about 200 subs (average like 100-400 viewers per stream), and they can pull in $500-600 a night just from donations. (Male streamer, no ads) So, when you look at the larger streamers, they are probably bringing in at least 3-4x's that, not counting ads.

And don't even get me started on the female streamers. Keeping in mind, that I am a girl when I say this... for the "average" league girl streamer it's 80% based on how the girl looks, 10% based on how well she plays, and 10% based on what her voice is like. Booty shorts, tiny skirts, lots of cleavage, dressing like a hooker, and caking on the makeup attracts donations. It irritates the crap out of me to see it because it takes away from the skill that some of the girls actually have. But hey, if it pays their bills, to each their own. And I've seen them walk away with thousands. So it must be working for them.

It's all just about finding your niche as a streamer. You have to find what you're good at. Are you funny? (BoxBox, BunnyFufuu, Nightblue3) Are you sexy? (cam girls, BoxBox (you've seen the cosplay...)) Are you over the top? (Gross Gore) Are you loud and rambunctious? (Tyler1, Trick2g) Are you informative? (WingsofdeathX, Scarra) Are you competitive? (Faker, Bjergsen) Once you've found that niche, it's easy to tailor your stream around it, and build up a fan base. But you need to try and get the fans that are in your particular niche. For instance, you might be tempted to think that someone like C9 Sneaky is automatically in the competitive category, but he's not. Yes, he streams when he's not practicing, but his fanbase is built around how funny he is, and the running jokes about him being dad.

Once the fans are starting, and a streamer has a certain number of followers, they can partner with Twitch, which gives them the chance to make emotes, and then eventually do the ads and subscriptions. They only get a portion of that, but it adds up. I would think for most of the smaller streams, they tend to still get most of their support from donations though.

Telephone Booth1 votes

{quoted}

Well, a lot of it depends on who the streamer is as well. For male streamers, they have to decide if they want to be more informative, someone like WingsofdeathX, entertaining, someone like BoxBox, or competitive, someone like Faker who has limited streaming when he's not practicing. There are a ton of "professional streamers" who do nothing but stream League as their career, and they make a considerable amount of money doing it. I dunno if you ever watch RedMercy's videos on YouTube, but he just showed his car off, and well, there's a reason they call him "richboi redmercy."

On the smaller end of things, I've been a moderator for streams that have about 200 subs (average like 100-400 viewers per stream), and they can pull in $500-600 a night just from donations. (Male streamer, no ads) So, when you look at the larger streamers, they are probably bringing in at least 3-4x's that, not counting ads.

And don't even get me started on the female streamers. Keeping in mind, that I am a girl when I say this... for the "average" league girl streamer it's 80% based on how the girl looks, 10% based on how well she plays, and 10% based on what her voice is like. Booty shorts, tiny skirts, lots of cleavage, dressing like a hooker, and caking on the makeup attracts donations. It irritates the crap out of me to see it because it takes away from the skill that some of the girls actually have. But hey, if it pays their bills, to each their own. And I've seen them walk away with thousands. So it must be working for them.

It's all just about finding your niche as a streamer. You have to find what you're good at. Are you funny? (BoxBox, BunnyFufuu, Nightblue3) Are you sexy? (cam girls, BoxBox (you've seen the cosplay...)) Are you over the top? (Gross Gore) Are you loud and rambunctious? (Tyler1, Trick2g) Are you informative? (WingsofdeathX, Scarra) Are you competitive? (Faker, Bjergsen) Once you've found that niche, it's easy to tailor your stream around it, and build up a fan base. But you need to try and get the fans that are in your particular niche. For instance, you might be tempted to think that someone like C9 Sneaky is automatically in the competitive category, but he's not. Yes, he streams when he's not practicing, but his fanbase is built around how funny he is, and the running jokes about him being dad.

Once the fans are starting, and a streamer has a certain number of followers, they can partner with Twitch, which gives them the chance to make emotes, and then eventually do the ads and subscriptions. They only get a portion of that, but it adds up. I would think for most of the smaller streams, they tend to still get most of their support from donations though.

Wow thank you for the info. I feel ya on disliking how girls get donations just because of their appearance. I'm just jealous, though... damn attractive girls and their free rides.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

I won't deny that I've caught myself being a bit prejudiced against female streamers because of that sort of thing. At least to the ones who don't seem to be putting as much effort into their content as they are into their appearance. My favorite streamers are always going to be people who are there for the entertainment and information. I could care less what they look like, and I sure as hell don't go to Twitch to watch them dance around in their barely covered underwear... except when BoxBox is doing a cosplay stream. Then I'm totally there to see him dancing around.

Edit: I changed my IGN from VentressRedeemed to OnlyYouCanHearMe and wanted to clarify that it was me replying to you, and not some random ranter xD

Kei1431 votes

Streams have a 5-15 second delay to them, so your bot lane getting played hard is pretty much just because they were better than you.

Tormentula1 votes

{quoted}

Streams have a 5-15 second delay to them, so your bot lane getting played hard is pretty much just because they were better than you.

Not necessarily

1: 5-15 secs isn't a lot

2: the reason why they would go in is primarily due to them knowing there is no jungler or mid back up if they do, as the jungler is pathing top side, additionally makes top able to prepare for the gank if they see the jungler on raptors.

Don't get me wrong I suck autofilled, but there was clearly more information for them then we had in order to play that lane out. Nobody could help us because they always knew, and we couldn't really trade with them to begin with.

YerroFever2 votes

{quoted}

Streams have a 5-15 second delay to them, so your bot lane getting played hard is pretty much just because they were better than you.

There's a reason why Riot's spectating is 3 min behind the real game time... it's so that there's no advantage because that 3 min gap is soo far behind that what they did 3 min ago isn't really indicative of anything currently happening. 5-15 seconds is plenty of time to react to objectives and incoming ganks if you know how long the lag is.

If it's only 5 seconds, super easy to tell when someone is coming in for a gank vs doing their jungle route.

If the lag is 10-15 seconds, then watch out for players in a further radius than what you would respond with for a 5 second lag.

Telephone Booth1 votes

How does one guy ban all your hovers? Don't you only get one ban?

Edit: oh. Dodge, ended up on other team, told team,what your intents were. Nevermind, I get it now.

kevin heals you1 votes

while im in d2 and currently get matched with the highest view count streamers i can tell you this. them streaming the game has absolutely no fucking affect on the match and if you think so you are just looking for something to blame for why you lost.

YerroFever1 votes

[{quoted}](name=kevin heals you,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=c1MW34JE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-01-25T10:11:15.323+0000)

while im in d2 and currently get matched with the highest view count streamers i can tell you this. them streaming the game has absolutely no fucking affect on the match and if you think so you are just looking for something to blame for why you lost.

Do they announce and post their stream info in all chat in your matches?

Krigjer1 votes

Oh man, that just reminds me of when my 5-man in flex got stomped by a streamer. He linked it in postgame and left, so we clicked to check it out. I was still watching during champ select of the next game and noticed the picks were the same as in my lobby. We had matched against the exact same team.

When I told my friends and the other team realized it too (through all chat banter) they started begging their friend to stop streaming (through the webcam on stream), since we were all ghosting at that point. (There was too much delay to really make any plays, but they were all dicks to us in the previous game so we enjoyed making them uncomfortable in Twitch chat. Our rematch resulted in a rolfstomp and victory over them.)

About the topic at hand, linking a stream BEFORE a game seems like asking for griefing, especially with the threat of a dodge and being matched against someone previously on your team. And no stream delay? Tsk. But.. with how infrequently this may happen, I don't see them implementing an auto-detect service.

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