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I read Lyte's problems with Prisoner Island. Guess what? he is wrong. He's just a man.

Weedbro·12/22/2017, 1:24:08 PM·2 votes·700 views

Lyte isn't an infallible god.

First issue he has is that people will go "wut? i'm not nearly as toxic as THAT guy. why am I here?" yeah, people say that already, every day. _"I was just defending myself!" "y am i permabanned?!?" _

The second issue that he brings up, that people will just make new accounts, they do that anyways with Permabans and with far more frequency than any Prisoner's Island would create.

He thinks that they will just keep getting banned and never figure out how to circumvent the chat bot. He thinks that human beings will not be able to outsmart a chatbot. They already have, and do, every game.

Lyte, what world do you live in? I know that sounds insulting, it really isn't meant to be one. I ask this because of actual prisons. ** Oh, I guess all those Real Prisoners never reform, ever! ** They are all lumped in together with other bad people, so they couldn't POSSIBLY reform, right, Lyte? right? That's what you think. That's the idea that you hold in your head and your small, frozen heart. Humans absolutely do better, all the fucking time, through two separate mechanisms from being exposed to their own shitty shit constantly.

The first is a little thing known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aversion_therapy and it works. Second thing is known as Narcotics Anonymous, and it works, a lot better than one video game nerd designer's ideas. These are things that have been around before Lyte's parents were even born, helping people through their own toxicity, whether it be drug addiction or bad habits that poison their social interactions.

Lyte, you really need to step away from your video game and look at the real world and how real people are. your views are not only wrong, but cold and inhuman. I don't know what other word to describe the persistent, unshakable belief that humanity is absolutely incapable of A. getting better when placed in a prison, and B. is incapable of outsmarting a chatbot?

Come on, dude. Humanity is so much better than that, and there are infinite examples in the past and the history and happening right now that prove you're wrong, over and over and over again.

16 Comments

Imperial Pandaa12/22/2017, 1:39:24 PM14 votes

GO TO ARTICLE Why doesn’t Riot queue negative players with negative players? What’s wrong with the “prisoners island” concept? First, let’s define “prisoner’s island” designs for the folks who aren’t familiar. A prisoner’s island approach says that any players who cross the line into unsportsmanlike conduct should be separated from the broader playerbase and only matchmade together. At face value, it’s an emotionally satisfying fix that basically deports assholes to an island and theoretically makes everyone else’s games better as a result — but it runs counter to our value of reform.

Prisoner’s island design doesn’t work for League for two major reasons:

Reason One: We believe in a real shot at reform for unsportsmanlike players

We know that most negativity in game comes from a misstep, not a commitment to ruining games for people. That fact is the core reason why a shot at reform is central to many of our designs. So as long as reform is a core value for us (spoiler: it will always be a core value for us), we can’t stick 10 (even occasionally) unsportsmanlike players into what would be even more unsportsmanlike games and expect them to learn and turn things around.

Instead, we owe these players frank feedback about unsportsmanlike conduct, and a chance at gaining some self-awareness and growing as players and part of the community. This is actually something today’s Instant Feedback system isn’t great at. With info from your reports, we shoot penalized players a reform card explaining why other players think they should be penalized, but not an idea of how to change and grow. That gap is important for us to fill.

We get that this can read as a bit naive. That’s why we keep the banhammer handy for players who just aren’t interested in being relatively sportsmanlike and playing the dang game. Still, because the prisoner’s island system gives up on these players by default, we can’t subscribe to it as a solution for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Reason Two: Prisoner’s island is a truly awful experience for the “prisoners” in more ways than one

If we ship unsportsmanlike players to their own queue, they’d face a swath of issues that basically make League miserable by default. The queue would face higher rates of negativity in game, sure — but the diminished pool of players would also result in terrible queue times and lopsided matchmaking. It’d be emotionally satisfying to say they deserve it, but it’s squarely against our values of putting player experience first.

Beyond that, building and operating a service for a prisoner’s island would suck Rioters and resources from efforts we truly believe in, like improving Instant Feedback, intentional feeding detection, and reworking legacy systems like Honor.

RIOT GROMP & SIMURGH

ModUlanopo12/22/2017, 4:51:01 PM11 votes

one video game nerd designer

...With a Ph.D. in cognitive neuroscience.

You're right. Why would Riot hire one of the few scientists with experience in how people make decisions and react to stimuli?

Kei14312/22/2017, 2:10:52 PM6 votes

Lyte has moved on from Riot close to 2 years ago.

Where are you pulling your old information from?

HalcyonDweller12/22/2017, 5:04:23 PM3 votes

It's not that people can't get better if placed in a prison, it's that their chances of getting better become worse.

Implementing prisoner's island in league would involve throwing the toxic players into a prison together, locking the door, and leaving them to sort things out amongst themselves. Even real prisons in the real world don't do this. And it's for a number of extremely good reasons.

For people to have the best chance of reform, they need good influence. Throwing them into a shit-show with other similarly upset and uncooperative players will only drive them to be even more harsh and toxic in their own behavior.

This is because some of the types of people this would catch are all the people who believe 'an eye for an eye' is a good philosophy. They would make it absolutely impossible for one another to ever improve because they will be too busy punishing one another for some perceived wrongdoing that had been done unto them previously.

Imperial Pandaa12/22/2017, 1:35:28 PM3 votes

Riot Lyte doesn't actually exist any longer.

Edit: made a second reply with a more recent Riot statement on the matter. Included url as well. It is from 11 months ago.

NocturnalSheild12/22/2017, 2:15:12 PM1 votes

The real world has nothing to do with video game punishments.

The reason why real jails reform is BECAUSE ITS A FUCKING JAIL.

I mean getting banned from leauge is just a minor annoyance nowhere near the level of a prison.

SuicideAw12/25/2017, 6:48:06 AM1 votes

American prison system doesn't work.

The facts are out there.

Recidivism is sky high. Prison population has increased over time.

Revenge, retaliation, retribution, justice, whatever you want to call it: it does not work.

Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.