Riot's Discipline System: The Illusion of Quality

Apricot Jams·2/1/2019, 12:53:15 AM·16 votes·6,129 views

MY ARGUMENT: Riot doesn't permaban players motivated by actually creating a better community. It's clever marketing that creates the illusion of quality. They permaban players motivated by making more money. Just like every big corporation, all their decisions are based on making more money each year. Thousands of people earn their living working at riot, remember that, and it's easy to be convinced of something when your paycheck depends on you believing it (hence the riot employees on this board who downvote and flame people who complain about the shitty discipline system).

SUPPORT 1: League is a free to play game and most people play it for free. If you ban their account that they've earned tons of champs/skins/etc on over months/years, they're likely to pay at least a little bit of money to not have to spend all that time playing again. The mods on this board argue that players are not forced to spend money here, but dropping $10 to rebuy your favorite champ isn't unreasonable in this situation. Yes, it's the players choice, but they wouldn't have had to make this choice if they didn't get banned, and riot looks the other way at this because it's in their financial favor. Multiply $10 by the number of players that get permabanned each year, and thats a lot of extra money.

SUPPORT 2: I've been playing the game since beta and the community has gotten worse, not better. So this discipline system they advertise as "cleaning up the community" simply isn't working and tons of people can attest to this.

SUPPORT 3: The smerf account market makes a shit ton of money and riot does nothing to stop it. Go do a google search and you'll see how many sites sell accounts and guarantee satisfaction.

SUPPORT 4: Unless you complain a lot, the support responses you get are clearly copy-paste generic bullshit that helps no one who has been wrongfully punished. Even when you do get a real person, they just repeat what the robot said in different words. Even if you got harassed, flamed, and verbally abused in game, they don't care. If you so much as replied sarcastically to the actual trolls, you get punished the same way they do. In court, you don't get punished equally with the attacker for defending yourself, but in this game you do, and riot mods on this board love pretending like its justice.

SUPPORT 5: Permabanning an account doesn't successfully stop the player from still playing and still being toxic. They just create a new one, or buy a smerf, and they're still the same person they were before they got banned.

167 Comments

AeroWaffle2/1/2019, 1:00:41 AM16 votes

And it's all invalidated because the entire argument is leaning on the crutch that you're assuming a person who was banned will willingly come back to the game that they got banned on and willingly spend more money. More money than they would spend compared to previously.

I'll say it again. The player must willingly as in, completely of their own volition, start over from scratch and start spending money on content that they now know first-hand can be taken away from them should they behave poorly. And if they spend money it will be more money than if they were not banned.

Umbral Regent2/1/2019, 1:30:10 AM11 votes

MY ARGUMENT: Riot doesn't permaban players motivated by actually creating a better community. It's clever marketing that creates the illusion of quality. They permaban players motivated by making more money. Just like every big corporation, all their decisions are based on making more money each year. Thousands of people earn their living working at riot, remember that, and it's easy to be convinced of something when your paycheck depends on you believing it (hence the riot employees on this board who downvote and flame people who complain about the shitty discipline system).

This whole "Riot permabans people to milk more money off of them when they come back to the game" argument is pretty old-hat by now, and no matter how many times it's brought up, it never gets any more believable.

Also, you assume that Riot employees downvote people, but for one, that's only an assumption, and can't even reasonably be proven, and two, Riot employees seldom show up here nowadays. It's rare as hell to see a Riot fist on a thread.

And please, do show any example of a Riot employee flaming someone.

SUPPORT 1: League is a free to play game and most people play it for free. If you ban their account that they've earned tons of champs/skins/etc on over months/years, they're likely to pay at least a little bit of money to not have to spend all that time playing again. The mods on this board argue that players are not forced to spend money here, but dropping $10 to rebuy your favorite champ isn't unreasonable in this situation. Yes, it's the players choice, but they wouldn't have had to make this choice if they didn't get banned, and riot looks the other way at this because it's in their financial favor. Multiply $10 by the number of players that get permabanned each year, and thats a lot of extra money.

This supporting argument is faulty for the simple reason that, for it to be remotely true, the majority of people who get permanently banned would have to have the poor spending habits to actively re-buy anything after Riot tells them to ship out.

Literally nowhere would you find anyone banning people from the store as a business strategy. Wal*Mart won't kick you out with the expectation that you'll just walk right back in and throw down more cash, McDonalds won't put you to the curb expecting you to walk right back in and order a quarter pounder, and all the same, it'd make no sense whatsoever for Riot to permanently ban someone expecting them to come back and repurchase stuff.

SUPPORT 2: I've been playing the game since beta and the community has gotten worse, not better. So this discipline system they advertise as "cleaning up the community" simply isn't working and tons of people can attest to this.

Subjective, anecdotal evidence does not make for a viable supporting argument. You think that the community has gotten worse, but I've been playing for 4~ years, and in my eyes, the community has gotten better.

Neither of our views as to whether or not the community has gotten better or worse should be considered as valid supporting arguments, because our views of the community are subjective.

SUPPORT 3: The smerf account market makes a shit ton of money and riot does nothing to stop it. Go do a google search and you'll see how many sites sell accounts and guarantee satisfaction.

Question: Does Riot get any of the money from those purchased accounts?

If the answer is "no", then this is not a valid supporting argument.

SUPPORT 4: Unless you complain a lot, the support responses you get are clearly copy-paste generic bullshit that helps no one who has been wrongfully punished. Even when you do get a real person, they just repeat what the robot said in different words. Even if you got harassed, flamed, and verbally abused in game, they don't care. If you so much as replied sarcastically to the actual trolls, you get punished the same way they do. In court, you don't get punished equally with the attacker for defending yourself, but in this game you do, and riot mods on this board love pretending like its justice.

Here's the thing. IRL, self-defense is a valid defense in the jurisdiction of law because in IRL scenarios, you can be put under physical harm. It CAN be a life-or-death situation, and self-preservation is a priority.

In League of Legends, however, nobody is physically attacking you. You're not under threat of harm or losing your life - you're playing a videogame. There's no reason to be "defending yourself" (or, really, retaliating and flaming back) in a videogame where there's no risk of physical harm. Hence, why Riot's system doesn't care who started what, just who broke the rules.

SUPPORT 5: Permabanning an account doesn't successfully stop the player from still playing and still being toxic. They just create a new one, or buy a smerf, and they're still the same person they were before they got banned.

The permanent ban is supposed to disincentivize returning to the game by stripping a player of all their progress and investment - and it's a punishment that works surprisingly well, since only a scant few people actually come back.

And if they do come back, and they still misbehave? Riot still ultimately bans them. Eventually, they'll either shape up, or get tired of getting banned.

CharDeeMcDenniz2/1/2019, 1:07:46 AM8 votes

the tired ass idea of "OMG rito just permabans people to make money!!!" is easily my least favorite repeated thread

literally makes 0 sense

RandomIsHere2/1/2019, 1:30:55 AM7 votes

Support 2 : did you take note of every game you did past year ? Or it is just a perception ? I've been playing for 4years now, and i haven't noticed an increase in toxicity. So, who's right ? Me ? You ? We need stats, and if you don't believe riot stats, take a google sheet tab and write down every single game you do for a month.

Support 3: Bot accounts are flagged as bot, but NOT banned as they got flagged. To give less informations about the detecting system, there's banwaves every X time. ~~AND ~~ the are improving systems to fight leveling bots : https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/riots-approach-anti-cheat

Support 4: You aren't in a court. Or at least you aren't fight the one who insulted and/or reported you. A report trigger a case "Riot vs reported guy" So it's "Riot V you" and "Riot V him". Each time, they check if you're following the rules, and if you don't, they can punish you. Regarding the support, what do you want them to say ? You are as guilty as flamers are. Because you're one of them.

Support 5: It does. It may take a couple of accounts (and maybe money if they buy accounts), but it's like scripters. And scripters stop on average after 5.1 accounts according to this article : https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/2018/10/dev-removing-cheaters-from-lol/

Modi2/1/2019, 1:39:01 AM7 votes

Punished Peoples' Behavior: The Delusion Of What Is Good

Fixed your title.

rtbf360887372/1/2019, 12:57:44 AM2 votes

We both know that the fanboys will be all over this post to down vote it into oblivion with little to no input other than veiled toxicity.

Some of us know you're right though. EA lite edition Riot games will die off sooner than later