(Long post) I just hope someone will listen

SnugglePuggle94··10 votes·6,011 views

To Riot, please listen with your whole heart.

As a player who has been perma banned, and struggled to get over her temper, to really work on herself and come back as a better person and player, but only to get discouraged because Riot won't grant you any mercy for getting an account back, knowing that there is no chance left to get it back, makes the days really hard. It's really disheartening and just unfair, and hurts deep inside.

Note: I know what I did was wrong, I have had many people tell me that I deserve it for not listening to the previous warnings. I don't need to be told that again, that just hurts. I just want someone to understand and listen, without being negative.

As I'm sure others have done, I've researched a ton on how to try to get my account back. I've submitted multiple tickets. I even talked with a support person on the Riot Support twitter page, who was nice, but wouldn't do anything. My account is so dear to me, and I'm sure Riot has heard that before. It's my first account that I started playing with. My now fiance taught me how to play on it. We have so many memories together playing on late night college days. The account where I grinded to get Hextech Annie, where I got Elementalist Lux in a chest, etc. And all of that is gone, because of my mistakes.

The support specialist on Twitter told me to write on the boards, to talk to the Devs and just give them feedback, which I'm still hesitant to do because I've tried before and got shut down, but I am willing to try this again, to see if there is any chance it may happen.

I think that there needs to be more warnings to help people reform before they are slapped with a perma ban. Sure, some think a 10 game chat restriction, then 25, then 2 week ban, then a perma is warranted but I don't think so. Some people are reallyyy stubborn or really have a hot temper that it takes them more than those tries to get things right, and with the system that it is now, bam they are slapped with a perma and they can't do anything about it.

What I suggest, is that you give people longer suspensions after the 2 week. Something like 2 weeks, a month, 3 months, then perma or something. You can even slap in harder chat restrictions as well with those- a month ban then 100 game chat restriction, 3 month ban with 300 chat restriction. Just an idea. And if they still don't reform, a perma is then warranted for real.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter, but I think they are really good ideas and I hope you take them into account.

And another thing, which really just breaks my heart and makes me cry- Riot is just so darn strict on not giving anyone mercy if they got perma'd. I've seen people on other games, like WoW, get a second chance after a perma. But Riot? Nope. It's like a huge slap to the face because they don't want you back in the game unless it was their error. Now I don't mean to be a jerkwad or whatever, but I really think that's just unfair and it hurts....a lot. :(

I know Riot has tried to implement a system before where if people leveled up a new account to level 20 without doing anything bad, they get their account back, but it failed. I didn't see the results though but I just think, why stop after that one try? There are other ways to give people a second chance. Don't just stop with that because it failed. Let people show you they can succeed, like for instance- let them have their accounts back on a restricted basis, with rules they have to follow, or they get their account taken away.

Those rules could be as follows:

  • For people that got banned from verbal abuse: Chat restricted for a period of time (6 months, a year, etc). If they are toxic to anyone, account is taken away.

  • For people who trolled/int'd excessively: if they troll again, and cause people to have bad experiences, account is taken.

  • For people who hacked/cheated with programs: their computer and account is monitored closely, any wrong activity and account is taken.

  • For people who used hate speech/kys/etc: It could be as harsh as not able to chat at all for awhile, then slowly given chat back in periods of time so where they have to be careful with what they say or bam, account taken.

After whatever period of time they are given that they have to be watched closely, and if they succeed, they are given full rights to the account and are subjugated to the full rules and regulations of the game. No other chance is given if they are perma'd again.

I think that's a great way to see if people can reform. I suggested that to the Rioter on Twitter (Tank), and he thought it was a fine suggestion and told me to suggest it to the Devs on here.

I** am willing to be the first ginny pig for this experiment**.

Since my punishment was toxicity, you can give me the harshest rules you want- 1000 game chat restriction or more, along with closely monitoring my account to see if I do anything for a period of time- you can do a year if you want, and if I say anything bad, bam, take my account back.

That's how driven I am. **I'll do anything. **

I am truly, sincerely sorry for what I have done, and am very motivated to show you I can be your first success story. Riot, thank you if you listened to my post, and I hope, with all my heart, that you will give me a chance.

Sincerely, SnugglePuggle94

TL/DR: I think the punishment system is a bit too harsh and unfair, and think that Riot give more leniency when it comes to second chances. And I am willing to do whatever it takes to be that first success story.

Please, Riot. Give us another chance!!

82 Comments

Chermorg11 votes

So, Riot's tried longer punishments before - both longer term chat restrictions and longer bans.

By the time a player gets a permanent ban in today's system, there is extremely little chance they reform. For every player who one or two more chances would help reform, there are hundreds, if not thousands of players who would just have an opportunity to continue ruining games before they get to a permanent ban - and Riot has stated that they are not willing to make that tradeoff just to help a very small percent of players get their accounts back.

They have tried this whole "prove you're reformed" challenge before as you state - and the success rate, even with them babying the players as to what they did wrong and how to not get punished again, was less than 5%. Again, Riot is not going to let 95% of this type of player ruin more games just to help 5% keep their account. The challenge failed even with Riot doing almost everything they possibly could to help the players be constructive. Put simply, players who go through four stages of punishment, generally speaking for the most part don't want to reform and won't reform.

Only 0.006% of the community ever gets permanently banned. Somewhere around 10% get a chat restriction at one point during their life on League. Riot has decided that if you're part of the 0.006% that get to the permanent ban stage, it is not worth the cost of letting you have more chances. Every chance you get, statistically, is going to be more games ruined. You may very well be the 5% (or less) of the statistic that would have reformed. But for every one of you, there's 20 others who'd go on ruining games and get permanently banned again.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

I know I can and will be one of those successes if given the chance.

Sure, some won't reform. That's the price of giving people second chances. But I think it's fair to give people who truly, sincerely want their account back and will stay reformed, the chance to do so. Not trying to implement anything just because they don't want the ones that won't reform back, is not fair to the ones that will.

Bolroy5 votes

Only 0.006% of the community ever gets permanently banned

I've been banned 31 times, each time i've been banned, it's said that exact same thing. So I call bullshit.

Chermorg6 votes

You are only one person, why would the number go up just by you getting banned repeatedly?

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Multiple accounts. Riot doesn't have a way to tell whose account is which, when they ban right? So their system could just see that 31 accounts as 31 new people, not one.

Chermorg5 votes

Given Riot's ability to apply ID bans to players, it can be assumed they can positively identify smurfs - if only manually and not automatically. Any good statistician (i.e. Riot, since they're uber competitive) would filter out smurfs from the numbers before calculating the actual percentage.

Muted Observer4 votes

If they can identify smurfs then why don't they save normal draft games pre 30 from the unmitigated hell it has become?

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

Because smurfing isn't bannable by Riot.

Karunamon1 votes

Yeah they do actually, it's just those systems are not used to prevent perma'd players from coming back. Support can tell based on more than an IP address if one person is controlling two accounts. They can also recognize smurfs and silently move them into another queue.

Chermorg9 votes

But see, you aren't anyone special - if Riot gives you that chance, Riot has to give every permanently banned player that chance. And 95%+ of them will just come back to ruin more games - then get permanently banned again.

It is completely fair to the community - who hasn't been punished at all, to prevent anyone from coming back after a permaban - in order to ensure that the 95% of players who would keep ruining games don't come back.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

I'm sorry but you can't just say that the rate will be 95% again. Just no. That happened for the last time they tried to implement a way. There are always more options and ways to get the players that truly will and want to reform back, and I'm sure a lot more than just a measly 5% will be in that success rate if they just try.

If they try again, who knows what the rate will be! Maybe it might be 20% success, 50/50, or more, or it could be anywhere in between. But not 5%.

Chermorg9 votes

What has changed so drastically that you believe the statistic will be different? You are claiming it won't be... but you provide no reasoning for it. In healthcare, when a study has been done and agreed upon (ex: prevalence of diabetes in the population), it is not done over until something has changed. In healthcare, age is a valid change factor - but if you don't take that into account, you can't just say "well I think it's different". Nobody is going to give you money or time for your study.

You have provided no reasoning or evidence for your claim the rate will not be 5%, and statistically speaking it's more likely the rate hasn't changed. There is absolutely no reason to repeat the experiment given that nothing has changed drastically enough to suggest the statistics are different.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Because I believe that people have changed, and have the heart to commit to something if Riot gives them another chance. People fighting for what they believe in, for what they want- will do anything, and I am one of those people.

I don't know what you are planning to achieve by responding here, but I will choose to not let it get to me and will keep pursuing on, hoping a Red will see this eventually.

Take care, Chermorg.

Chermorg9 votes

Again, you are not the only person. You may very well be part of the 5% who have reformed and would not get punished again. It's not just about you however. If Riot gives you another chance, they have to give everyone another chance, and 95% of the other players aren't going to do what you've done. They'll come back, and keep ruining more games - hence why the old experiment failed. There is no reason to believe everyone has suddenly magically had a change of heart.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

I know not everyone has changed. But some have, and need the chance to show that. And I was thinking, so Riot isn't bombarded with tons of people coming in wanting their chance- they take them in waves. People apply to get their chance, and a select amount are taken each period. That way they don't get overwhelmed, and they can monitor how many are coming and going and the success/failure rates. And like I said before, I'm willing to be the start of the first batch.

Chermorg9 votes

Do you deserve to force me and other non-punished players to sit through hundreds more games of toxicity, just so you can get your account back?

That is extremely selfish to say that you deserve that.

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Where the heck did you come to the conclusion that I said I "deserved" it? I said we need a chance. All I have been talking about is getting a CHANCE. Not that we deserve it.

And it's not just me. Like I have said many times, there are more out there that are willing to show they are reformed, if they were just given a chance.

And wtf? No. If Riot implemented the system I suggested- monitoring peoples accounts, they would only go through one toxicity game per account- because if like I said were watching them- they would take it away the minute they got done with that game.

Seriously Chermorg. This is not cool of you.

Chermorg10 votes

One game of toxicity is one game that could've been prevented had you not gotten your chance. And that's assuming that Riot has the manpower to watch every single account that they let back into the game (hint: they don't).

Multiply that by the 95% to 5% ratio that has been proven in their experiment before, and it's not worth the 95% of games that are going to be toxic just so you can get your account back.

You are saying you need a chance, but you're saying that after I've showed you multiple times that asking for such a chance is extremely selfish. You are putting your desires and your account above that of the hundreds, thousands, or more games that would be ruined by everyone else Riot would have to give these chances to.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Wow. I can't believe my eyes.

Like I said, they limit who they take in to watch each period, so they have the manpower to devote to it fully.

Do you even read? Holy cow. I said not just me. There are many others that want to partake in the experiment as well.

It's not selfish. And it's not ruining games, if Riot manages to segregate the failures out and let the successes move on, which well impact more games for the better.

Chermorg10 votes

Okay, so let's say they take in only maybe 10-100 at most players per period.. and watch them... that's still 9-95 games that are ruined. That's not good.

You are saying there are many others, but you have provided no proof that they exist, and you've provided no proof that it has changed from the last time they tried this.

I am done trying to explain this to you. I will leave you with this: It is not worth the amount of games that would be ruined (95%) just so that you and a few other players who didn't heed their final warning can come back on their old accounts. Sorry that's not what you want to hear, but I am thinking of the larger community as a whole, not you and a very very small number of other players who'd actually succeed at this challenge.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

No. It won't create more ruined games. It will create even better ones. I believe in it.

Those chances aren't that much, like I said in the post there needs to be more.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Sigh.

Like I told Chermorg- by getting the successful players that reformed back, they improve the games of other players in the future. The ones that aren't successful, don't get their accounts back therefore not ruining any games.

This is logic. Maybe you just need to read.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

{quoted}

Again, they already tried that! What's so hard to understand about this? THEY ALREADY TRIED IT! **And it failed. **

It's called multiple tests. You can't just stop with one test because it failed. You can always try again to see if the results can be different.

Hell, that's all proof we need! Let's try again ...

No. You never know what the rate will be. You can't just say it's going to be 95 percent again.

But you can? Everything you do is assuming that people just magically changed, because of ... who know's. Wtf

Ugh. Seriously people. SMH. I never said that all the people have changed, but if you give some a chance, they will show you that they can.

And for every one of the these few, there are 20 who didn't changed (again, 95% failed the test).

Nope. Try again please. You never know if there will be 20 people who didn't change or 20 people who have changed and just one person that didn't.

ModPeriscope2 votes

I removed part of your post for violating the Golden Rule. Please try to always be respectful of your fellow summoners.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or Discuss the Boards.

Muted Observer4 votes

lol you act like the game isn't toxic in it's very nature with the people that play and somehow unbanning this one person will open the floodgates, and YES RIOT UNBANNED TYLER 1 everyone deserves a chance unless streamers get special favors or something like that

HonestJohnTheCon4 votes

To clarify, Riot didn't unban any of Tyler1's accounts. They just let him play league without being banned on the spot again.

So, yes, he did get special treatment, as in that he's one of the only people in League to have received an IP ban. Basically, if an account is discovered as belonging to him, it gets banned, regardless of his behavior on that account.

Technically, SnugglePuggle did NOT get an IP ban, so if they make a new account, they're fine. Provided they are sincere and their behavior is good, Riot won't ban them again, even if they discover the identity of the alt.

Telephone Booth2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Muted Observer,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=apd4Tpc3,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-20T06:26:09.006+0000)

lol you act like the game isn't toxic in it's very nature with the people that play and somehow unbanning this one person will open the floodgates, and YES RIOT UNBANNED TYLER 1 everyone deserves a chance unless streamers get special favors or something like that

Lol the point is, unbanning this one person would be unfair as hell. Why is she special? It would open the floodgates, as you put it, because then they have to let everyone have a second chance. And tyler1 had the harshest penalty known to man in the history of league of legends... even worse than a permaban! Real,special favor they did for him. Yay he can create a new account just like anyone else who has been permabanned.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=apd4Tpc3,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2018-04-21T00:32:48.210+0000)

Lol the point is, unbanning this one person would be unfair as hell. Why is she special? It would open the floodgates, as you put it, because then they have to let everyone have a second chance. And tyler1 had the harshest penalty known to man in the history of league of legends... even worse than a permaban! Real,special favor they did for him. Yay he can create a new account just like anyone else who has been permabanned.

Learn to read please.

It's not just me. There are plenty others out there that want a chance, and when they are successful too, they join that rate with me.

Please be respectful on here.

ModUlanopo3 votes

I'm going to leave this up because it has been three days, but you should try to avoid the "learn to read" insult.

Telephone Booth2 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but you can't just say that the rate will be 95% again. Just no. That happened for the last time they tried to implement a way. There are always more options and ways to get the players that truly will and want to reform back, and I'm sure a lot more than just a measly 5% will be in that success rate if they just try.

If they try again, who knows what the rate will be! Maybe it might be 20% success, 50/50, or more, or it could be anywhere in between. But not 5%.

Lol... be realistic. Maybe if we got rid of police, people would never break laws! You can't say that they will! You don't know that! Maybe everyone is different now! ... <removed by moderation>

SnugglePuggle942 votes

It's not crap.

You never know what the future can hold, and how the stats can change if Riot just will let people try.

Bettnachleger2 votes

What makes you believe that everyone has magically changed? Pls enlighten us!

ModPeriscope2 votes

I removed part of your post for violating the Golden Rule. Please try to always be respectful of your fellow summoners.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or Discuss the Boards.

a ver cojan4 votes

well it is an exercise to the community to control their temper, at end of the day its just one or two matches, plus there are lots of troll still in league with no punishment

Gall2 votes

{quoted}

By the time a player gets a permanent ban in today's system, there is extremely little chance they reform.

I've been permanently banned before as have a couple of my duo queue partners in diamond. We have all "reformed". The system taught us that arguing with an aggressor will usually result in backlash if words are not chosen carefully, which is difficult to do while trying to win. It taught us to use the /mute all command. And lastly it taught us to not purchase RP since it can go down the drain with two wrong steps. (for all 3 of us it was 2 infractions in total, the second infraction being a permanent ban.)

But, we have all "reformed", so that's good.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Good to hear! :)

Muted Observer2 votes

Reformed in riot's case means "Stopped communicating with our team for fear of reprisal" Good team game :D

Hyquiem4 votes

{quoted}

So, Riot's tried longer punishments before - both longer term chat restrictions and longer bans.

By the time a player gets a permanent ban in today's system, there is extremely little chance they reform. For every player who one or two more chances would help reform, there are hundreds, if not thousands of players who would just have an opportunity to continue ruining games before they get to a permanent ban - and Riot has stated that they are not willing to make that tradeoff just to help a very small percent of players get their accounts back.

They have tried this whole "prove you're reformed" challenge before as you state - and the success rate, even with them babying the players as to what they did wrong and how to not get punished again, was less than 5%. Again, Riot is not going to let 95% of this type of player ruin more games just to help 5% keep their account. The challenge failed even with Riot doing almost everything they possibly could to help the players be constructive. Put simply, players who go through four stages of punishment, generally speaking for the most part don't want to reform and won't reform.

Only 0.006% of the community ever gets permanently banned. Somewhere around 10% get a chat restriction at one point during their life on League. Riot has decided that if you're part of the 0.006% that get to the permanent ban stage, it is not worth the cost of letting you have more chances. Every chance you get, statistically, is going to be more games ruined. You may very well be the 5% (or less) of the statistic that would have reformed. But for every one of you, there's 20 others who'd go on ruining games and get permanently banned again.

So now the systems based on cycology. I never knew riot had cyclogists,

Muted Observer3 votes

That's a bit myopic isn't it a lot of people who plays this game are let's face it well below teenagers and haven't even gone through puberty yet. They rage and rant and flame needlessly because that's how a teenager handles stress. I'm not saying that there aren't people who just aren't good for the game at all but to argue that once a person gets perma'd there is EXTREMELY little chance they reform is a bit.. dystopian in my opinion. Why not have that person do another account and link that account at the risk of a more immediate ban if they screw up again but if they manage to show good sportsmanship and reform then you unban the original account. Besides Riot unbanned Tyler 1 They have no right to refuse anyone an unban anymore without looking like massive sellout hypocrites who only will work with you if you make them money.

Chermorg6 votes

Where is your source for the age range of the League community?

Further, Tyler 1 was prohibited from ever making a new account (a restriction not applicable to anyone in this thread most likely). That restriction was all that was lifted. None of his accounts were unbanned.

Muted Observer1 votes

Let me rephrase based on the general behavior and attitude that I have seen displayed in my games across multiple years of play with the most recent being the heaviest in toxic behavior. I sincerely pray that the majority of leagues playerbase is under the age of twelve or god help us all our generation is doomed (speaking as a 29 year old man myself)

And the point is they let him back in after kicking him out, it may be a different level but it's the same kind of thing. You can't say "You're too toxic to even be allowed into the community" Then change your mind when (curiously enough) Your game starts to dip out of trend and you need some catalyst to come and draw attention back. If tyler 1 is not the most obvious publicity stunt then I can not provide you with a better example.

a ver cojan4 votes

i am pretty sure that percentage (0.006%) is not legit

Chermorg3 votes

For what reason do you believe it to be inaccurate?

Im Duke Nukem11 votes

Okay look i'm going to be straight with you .

First of all stop trying to victimize yourself by calling riot's ban system unfair and by saying your feelings are hurt . Just accept it like a grown up and mature human being .

We all make stupid mistakes in life , i have also had accounts perma banned in mmorpg's where i had spent thousands of hours and $ in it . I know how shitty it feels to lose everything i built up in an instant , but hey i was toxic and immature as shit and it led me to get banned from these games .

You have to learn to move on , accept the mistakes you've made and just make a new account and start it fresh , show riot with that new account that you are capable of never acting immaturely over a video game and show some control over yourself . It's your body , learn to deal with your temper .

Then after you can prove on that new account that you are worthy of getting your main account back by never inting/trolling/raging/rage quitting/whatever , then send another ticket by showing your progress with the new account . It might not get your main account back but it might help as i did this to get back accounts in other games .

So yeah , turn the page , show riot you reformed by using anew account and accept that you did stupid shit and you deserved that perma ban . I play since season 1 and never have i ever received a single chat restriction , if i can do it when i had the same problems then so can you .

By the way if my english is bad , french is my native language .

Peace <3

Int Like Rickon5 votes

It is just like any situation in life - choices have consequences that you inherently accept when you make said choice. Sometime bad choices, regardless of intention or regret, have bad consequences. In this situation, the choice you made led to the consequence you received. In life there are definitely situations that you can't undo no matter how much you change in the aftermath, so I would chalk it up as a learning experience and move forward. Dwelling on a negative outcome is probably not healthy, and it sounds like you are doing your damn best to change from that situation which is commendable!

Move forward. You can build something new that could end up better than what you lost.

Muted Observer3 votes

There's a fundamental problem with this idea, if you go to prison, when you get out you are no longer in debt to society. So comparing Permaban to real life is a strange concept because Permabans don't exist in real life. Only on the internet an access be 100% totally restricted and never revisited. Prisoners get parole but toxic people don't? or is riot comparing a toxic flamer to a murderer on life sentence? Seems a bit unequivocal eh?

Karunamon5 votes

Only on the internet an access be 100% totally restricted and never revisited.

But it isn't. You are still allowed to play League, just not on that account.

Muted Observer1 votes

But you do not have access to the goods you purchased, how would you feel if you went and got groceries but then got a speeding ticket and had your groceries confiscated. In any legal situation riot could be considered stealing people's property restricting the access to purchased goods. Now you can argue that it's apart of the contract they signed to play but, Did anyone actually sign a contract? If you read the terms and conditions that you are required to agree to before signing up it makes no mention of account bans. Specifically here to that you can not have your purchased property transfered to another account or that riot has the right to restrict access to that content just accessing that account. I'm of a sound mind that Riot should not perma ban people but instead just remove their ability to use chat but that's me. I also thought prisoner island was a better idea than automated chat bans so my opinion is not of much value.

Karunamon3 votes

You purchased a limited right to use those items, as described in the TOS. The same one that says you lose that right if you misbehave.

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