Suggestion to reduce toxicity

vittaya·Apr 29, 2016·3 votes·1,189 views

We all hate the toxic trolls that ruin our games.

Just want to throw it out there... make people that want to play ranked register their phone number - limit the number of ranked accounts tied to a phone number. Confirm the phone number with a call or SMS. That way if they have more than one account a ban for their behavior has meaning since it shuts down all their accounts. I know that there are probably ways to abuse this but it is a foot in the right direction and the bugs would be worked out.... Riot Please.

36 Comments

LostFr0stApr 29, 20167 votes

Not everyone has a phone number that is theirs. They currently tie it to e-mails and can see smurfs/mains through them having the same computer id, which imo is better.

vittayaApr 29, 20161 votes

That is an option as well. I mean windows 10 does that based on the processor/mother board IDs... its a first step and discussions need to be had.

LostFr0stApr 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That is an option as well. I mean windows 10 does that based on the processor/mother board IDs... its a first step and discussions need to be had.

I'm pretty sure Riot currently uses that to ID us.

SarutobiApr 29, 20164 votes

So what about people without phones? Or people with limited/restricted services? Then of course what happens if your phone is lost/stolen/damaged? If it was optional sure i could see something like this happening. But to basically make it a requirement would hurt a lot of people. I used a service like this on some things, and while its rare the company can give your information to a 3rd party and thus you get basically spam text/phone calls. Ive had this happen and it does get annoying. I do feel like something should be done. Especially for people who think that being on a smurf is basically a free pass to break the rules because nothing bad will happen to their main account.

vittayaApr 29, 20162 votes

I think it is the first step. All your points are valid and solutions and discussions should be had.

ActinApr 29, 20163 votes

Or you could use the mute button

vittayaApr 29, 20162 votes

Mute doesn't stop said person from running down lane because he wants to feed and says so.

acidxrainApr 29, 20163 votes

Actually, it's a fantastic idea, one that Counter-Strike: Global Offensive just went into beta for. I have already seen an increase in both positive behavior and competitive like-mindedness.

I'm hugely fond of people having to tie their accounts to more concrete and daily essential objects apart from emails. Not only does it permanently get rid of cheaters, but players who consistently make new accounts and continue to be negative.

EDIT: ~~If you cannot afford a prepaid phone and one text message, you probably cannot afford your internet connection, either~~ Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't being inclusive of college students, LostFrost! For those people who are in college and don't have bucketloads of money, Ebay has $20 prepaid phones with no contracts/requirements. Additionally, Skype numbers and other numbers should be blocked from being able to subscribe to this service. If you're under the age of 18 and do not have a phone, you can ask your parents to connect theirs. Here's where it gets really awesome. Your parents confirm and link your account to their phone, and when you get a permanent ban or other similar punishment, guess who the text message goes to with the chat log?

EDIT: It doesn't have to be a mandatory service, either. It could be opt-in. See my response below for that, as it's closer to the model that Valve/Hidden Path are taking with CS:GO.

I applaud Hidden Path for their recent move to this system, and their past decision of having Overwatch, a spectator program specifically designed to detect cheaters and/or griefers. There are cases where, similarly to a Battle.net authenticator, people might need to transfer ownership from one number to another. That's absolutely fine, but if that account gets banned on that number, it cannot be used again in the future. The only issue is that you'll have to provide your name and current service, that way if you get a new phone number, other people who inherit your old number aren't barred from creating an account or additional accounts.

Another caveat to this system is that for high-elo players, limiting the amount of accounts a user can have will significantly impact the chances that they get a game in a decent time. However, I believe that this is a good reason for Riot to consider improving upon the long queue times as they have been, now just with a much higher priority.

If your account gets banned for any reason and you lose the appeal in a ticket, you should not be able to come back and play this game. So your options are to either, 1. appeal your ban and win, or 2. Get a brand new phone number, which will cost you quite a bit of money. When you start attaching every-day services to accounts like that, people's attitudes change big time. If it's completely free, you have nothing to lose, and I don't like that approach.

There are great ways to approach this system: You can apply it to every game mode, or you can simply apply it to ranked-only matches.

LostFr0stApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

** If you cannot afford a prepaid phone and one text message, you probably cannot afford your internet connection, either.** Additionally, Skype numbers and other numbers should be blocked from being able to subscribe to this service. If you're under the age of 18 and do not have a phone, you can ask your parents to connect theirs. Here's where it gets really awesome. Your parents confirm and link your account to their phone, and when you get a permanent ban or other similar punishment, guess who the text message goes to with the chat log?

Thanks for the judgement. I'm currently in my mid/late 20's, paying my own way through grad school and do not have a phone of my own. I also have neither Skype, Facebook or such "material" lines to tie my account to other than my e-mail, which I check daily. What may I ask should those in my basket do?

acidxrainApr 29, 20161 votes

Just saw a prepaid cellphone on ebay for 19 bucks from Verizon. There's literally no excuse. That's like the price of three Starbucks drinks (I have no idea if that's accurate, never had Starbucks before).

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-considers-prime-matchmaking-for-csgo/ The general consensus is extremely positive, so you don't have to take my word for it. Additionally, I'm guessing you didn't bother to read the rest of my statement, so let me just go ahead and reiterate that it doesn't have to apply to all game modes. This could apply to ranked queues only. Not only that, but it doesn't have to be mandatory, either. Making it opt-in means that if you do opt-in, your experience is more than likely more positive. Not verifying means you just play the same old game you always have.

In saying that, if you cannot/won't afford yourself a prepaid phone, you don't get punished for it. If it's something you want, you'll get it. If it's not, you won't. I can't make the decision for you, it's all in what you think the price is worth for your experience. If you think you're having a bad experience in the game and you can't afford a $20 prepaid phone to make it better, then it's very clear where your priority lies, and it's not on League of Legends. That's absolutely fine! Is it worth one text message to you? Maybe not. For the vast majority of players it's acceptable.

Wait for your next break and get a part-time job or even go to your local workforce facility and work for a day. You'll have enough money to not only purchase a pre-paid phone, but you'll be able to cram thousands of minutes on it, too. Recycle cans, mow a lawn. I very badly want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're not making excuses just to play devil's advocate, but I sincerely cannot find any way that any person cannot afford a $20 cheapo phone and put 5 dollars worth of minutes on it.

Oh yeah, my previous comment wasn't judging you at all. In fact, it was omitting you completely, because most college students don't pay for internet access at all. I didn't take that into consideration, but I've fixed that assumption in this response and above, please have a look.

LostFr0stApr 29, 20162 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Not my demographic either, but at least you added something closer. I will reiterate.
I am in my mid/late 20's. I have a full time job. I am currently attending post-secondary school and paying for it myself through working. I do not have a phone. I have a very good laptop which I bought myself, which is worth more than a phone and is a better and more reliable tracking form than a phone. I play League. I like to play league. One needs a computer to play League. Not a phone.

If it's solely opt-in, what purpose would it serve? Therefore, a computer seems to be a reliable method of tracking people. No?

vittayaApr 29, 20161 votes

Think he means opt-in to play ranked. But yeah tracking your computer would work too.

LostFr0stApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Think he means opt-in to play ranked. But yeah tracking your computer would work too.

They already track our computers.
That is how the player behavior specialists find the true banned accounts when someone makes a discussion like "Rito I got banned Why QQ" and they post back "The account you're posting on isn't banned, oh, are you perchance talking about a different account wink wink" and then when given permission by the OP post that account's chatlogs.

acidxrainApr 29, 20161 votes

Riot doesn't follow through with their current ID-tagging systems. If you get banned on one account you almost never get banned on any other account. If you choose not to purchase/use a phone that's your decision, again, like I mentioned before. Your financial priorities don't have to be focused on League of Legends.

You aren't getting punished for not doing it, but if it's applied to something like ranked-only matchmaking, you either play with the same people you have always played with or you grab a phone and link up and enjoy the potentiality of playing with people who are like-minded in your competitive-but-fair nature.

But in all seriousness, if you guys are going as far as claiming some people don't own cell-phones because of their "culture", you're already bobbing for apples, and you're simply going to extremes to find a reason to not make this work. Either buy a 20 dollar phone and attach it and deal with less trolls, or don't choose to buy and attach one and notice nothing change at all. It's extremely simple. Either you notice a huge change by attaching, or you notice no change by not doing it.

But again, don't take my word for it, go read the article and see what people are saying about the CS:GO Prime Matchmaking system which is exactly what I'm talking about doing here. It's not rocket surgery. Perhaps one day in your life you will be able to afford a cellphone or will choose to have a landline, and when you do you'll get all the benefits that everyone else does who has one. I also disagree with the previous user's statement that having a phone is a luxury. Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, but I just can't agree with that. It's a necessity today, not a luxury. However, I believe that people will just pretend that they can't or won't/refuse to afford something so cheap just for the sake of argument that their argument gets so bad as to include things like "It's not part of my culture" as reasons to why they don't own a cellphone or landline.

LostFr0stApr 30, 20161 votes

The CS:GO stuff is in another comment, here I will address the phone once again...

I do not have any bonds which require a "call." I thus do not have a phone.
With the abundance of modern communication systems I have no need for a personal voice comm. I either go see them or I msg them through e-mail. It's not about being cheap or culture.
It's about not needing a phone plan and simple. If I eventually create bonds that require to-the-minute communication possibilities then sure-- I'll get a phone. For LoL, not so much...

acidxrainApr 30, 20161 votes

Then don't get a phone. It won't affect you negatively. Would you rather deny others, who can and do have them, of a better experience?

In other words, will you take the stance of, "because I can't take advantage of the system provided to others/because I don't want to get or link a phone to my account, nobody should have it"?

or will you take the stance of:

"I'm not getting a phone for this game to make my experience better, I'm fine with how it is"?

To put it quite blunt, those who do not have cellphones or phones in general are a very small minority, compared to those who do. Should we just say, "Nah, not worth it!" because of that? If so, I highly disagree.

SarutobiApr 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Not my demographic either, but at least you added something closer. I will reiterate.
I am in my mid/late 20's. I have a full time job. I am currently attending post-secondary school and paying for it myself through working. I do not have a phone. I have a very good laptop which I bought myself, which is worth more than a phone and is a better and more reliable tracking form than a phone. I play League. I like to play league. One needs a computer to play League. Not a phone.

If it's solely opt-in, what purpose would it serve? Therefore, a computer seems to be a reliable method of tracking people. No?

I think people assume that since everyone else basically has phones means anyone and everyone should have one. Phones or other products like that aren't necessity, they are a luxury. Some people can't afford them, some people chooses not to have them, and some people just find it not needed in their current life style.

That shouldn't fault them from enjoying a game. Hence why if they did do something like this there should at least be options. As with all other types of systems like this they almost always have alternatives. Phone numbers, email, and an authenticator would help because it leaves options for people who might not have a phone, email or the app/token for an authenticator. But the way TC and other people put it seems like a phone number should be an only option and to me that's not right!

vittayaApr 29, 20161 votes

That's one of the kinks that need to be worked out. Borrow a friends number tie it to his phone. Maybe each number can register 5 accounts... buddy system if one person is horrible it takes them all down.

LostFr0stApr 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That's one of the kinks that need to be worked out. Borrow a friends number tie it to his phone. Maybe each number can register 5 accounts... buddy system if one person is horrible it takes them all down.

That's not a "kink," acidxrain distictly stated to tie it to one's own phone for security purposes. I don't personally see what's wrong with Riot tying our accounts to our laptops and computers as they always have.

vittayaApr 29, 20162 votes

If they already tie it then it is an enforcement issue... to be clear my frustration is not toxic comments... it is the player that chooses to go straight down lane to feed and states lol I don't care about this account I have more than one.... One of the issues to be worked out would be PC Bangs... but these are all things that should be in the works to improve the ranked environment. Anyhow thanks for all the input... hopefully someone at Riot is thinking about these things....

LostFr0stApr 29, 20161 votes

Do we know how many games it takes them to catch and ban an intentional feeder right now? I've reported one before (It's rare to find in ranked though) and the account (If its a consistent occurrence) becomes "inactive" a short while after.^^

They probably just wait and put them into the next ban wave I guess?

acidxrainApr 29, 20161 votes

But then they go and create a brand new account, and do the same thing. With the idea I'm presenting that can not happen anymore.

LostFr0stApr 30, 20161 votes

So you ban all of their smurfs at the same time--what do we do now~ They'll just get a new phone and start again. Trolls always have a hole to crawl through. There are people who have reformed after they got their main banned. Some people change, many people don't. Why not just give them a chance at redemption?

Please, let's just let this rest acidxrain. We both know neither of us will "win" nor "lose" since we both have valid points and are clearly passionate about this topic. It has been nice having someone to argue logically with though... so I thank you for that <3

acidxrainApr 30, 20161 votes

Let what rest? I'm participating in a discussion that I'm providing extremely valid points in. Those points still haven't been proven invalid or not useful. I wasn't aware that this was a contest?

So you think that people will purchase brand new phones with brand new phone numbers, just to be toxic in League of Legends? Don't you see how silly that sounds? Even if it only cost them $5-10, they have to buy it from somewhere, ship it or pick it up, use it to verify their brand new account which they'll have to level up from level one. They'll have to purchase all the champions, runes, pages, etc. I mean, really... think about it. Isn't it convincing enough that it's a huge deterrent to continue behaving badly?

You're saying there's people who have reformed since they've been banned before, but that's a huge problem in and of itself. Allowing players to come back in the first place who have been permanently banned is a problem.

Look at the recent events of Tyler1, a League streamer who has had every account he's ever owned banned for toxicity, and now Riot has released a statement saying that if he ever makes another account, they'll find it and ban it, too. Great! Do they want to dedicate an entire staff to this kind of stuff every day and spread the love to lower elo players that have been doing this for years now? I doubt it.

All I can say is that if Riot is really serious about keeping toxic players banned, this is how you go about doing it. Extremely cheap and simple process, no crew required, and fully automated.

LostFr0stApr 30, 20161 votes

Yes, some people have money to burn. It's just how it is. Toxic players already raise smurfs to use once their main is banned. They will buy new or used phones if they have to.
They already buy used accounts even if they know the account will be banned once the system detects it. You're talking about people who already bang their head against a rock. You think it's going to matter if you switch the rock? They will want to be in the "upper player group" since it is literally being labeled "the better group."

The reason Tyler 1 was banned was due to him openly telling his audience that what he does is OK and showing that as an example to his hundreds of thousands of viewers is not OK. Tyler 1 can still technically play league, but he can't stream it and can't let anyone know his account name and if they find out or he's toxic he'll get banned again.

They ban people for doing what he does every day.
We know that because they post about their "unfair bans" on the boards.

Why separate the toxic scum from the A+ super-tryhard-and-friendly players? I would like a mix of both in my games otherwise you never have anyone to look up to. The "lower" tier will fester and become worse. That's the prisoner's island. We need those nice players just as much as we need the slightly toxic ones so that we can know what to do and what not to do.

acidxrainMay 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes, some people have money to burn. It's just how it is. Toxic players already raise smurfs to use once their main is banned. They will buy new or used phones if they have to.
They already buy used accounts even if they know the account will be banned once the system detects it. You're talking about people who already bang their head against a rock. You think it's going to matter if you switch the rock? They will want to be in the "upper player group" since it is literally being labeled "the better group."

The reason Tyler 1 was banned was due to him openly telling his audience that what he does is OK and showing that as an example to his hundreds of thousands of viewers is not OK. Tyler 1 can still technically play league, but he can't stream it and can't let anyone know his account name and if they find out or he's toxic he'll get banned again.

They ban people for doing what he does every day.
We know that because they post about their "unfair bans" on the boards.

Why separate the toxic scum from the A+ super-tryhard-and-friendly players? I would like a mix of both in my games otherwise you never have anyone to look up to. The "lower" tier will fester and become worse. That's the prisoner's island. We need those nice players just as much as we need the slightly toxic ones so that we can know what to do and what not to do.

Your last two paragraphs clearly shows me that my work here is done.

I believe when you made this statement you were bobbing pretty hard for an apple. If people have money to spend, let them spend it. That money goes into making MY experience better, not theirs.

acidxrainApr 29, 20161 votes

Not for security purposes. I'm speaking of tying accounts in to ban any and all accounts a user owns when they are permanently banned from the game. Has nothing to do with security at all. Not once have I mentioned security in this discussion. I haven't distinctly said anything regarding account security. E-mail addresses with two-factor authentication should be absolutely fine for account security, but let's remember nobody here is even talking about account security.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE and explain to me HOW this is a bad thing: http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-considers-prime-matchmaking-for-csgo/

Don't want to read the article, watch a YouTube video explaining it in less than two minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2rlxpJXPgM

LostFr0stApr 30, 20161 votes

Question: would that not make the rest of League into a prisoner's island? Thank you for both links; I went through both just in case the video had additional information.

acidxrainApr 30, 20161 votes

No it would not. Remember, the idea of the system is to remove players entirely from League of Legends who get permanently banned. You don't get terrible players, you just don't get the A+ super-tryhard-and-friendly players.

JetjoeApr 29, 20162 votes

how about u man up and learn to be a mature adult and not cover your ears every time someone is toxic to you. Its time you stop drinking mommy's booby milk and move on to something like sippy cup juice.

vittayaApr 29, 20162 votes

It's not the negative comments. Its the guy that goes down lane to feed because he can.

JetjoeApr 29, 20161 votes

Add the guy after game as a friend trash talk him and then block him so you dont end up in a game with him again. I understand. The annoying part is riot will chat ban you for saying stop feeding etc. And they wont ban him.

Just add and bash them

NyaboronApr 29, 20162 votes

Let's not.

FrankerXApr 29, 20162 votes

we already had that a bunch of times. bad idea :/

Sythriel DrakenApr 29, 20161 votes

I don't think that will work. After all, Their hextech system and their failure to communicate player reform has only increased toxicity when it was designed to reduce it. What they really need to do is if a player is reported and found guilty of anything more than a simple chat restriction (which honestly can be given out by just saying something along the lines of "fucking group dipshit" after a player has been ignoring the team and intentionally dying) then the person who's report triggered it should get IP or LP refunded if it was a loss.

This way, the troll did not win because as it stands right now, the toxic player has already done it's damage and does not give two shits about the punishment, especially if it's on an account that is designed to just troll.. (I've had people admit to doing this in at least a few of my games when I was gold 3 weeks ago)

vittayaApr 29, 20161 votes

I agree. That would heal the wound. This is just a suggestion to spur discussion on the topic.