At a certain point Riot, you're overreacting

CanISpanksYou··6 votes·1,252 views

Ok I admit i'm a toxic person in this particular game, I don't like a lot of league players. And I think both the community and the game itself are equally infuriating a lot of the time and designed to make someone angry. I think league fans are smug, overly sensitive, just outright awful people who never even consider the other side, and it's not the toxic ones I'm referring to. Being flamed is fine, being reported over literally anything and banned is not that's how gaming usually is and was before this ridiculous tribunal stuff. And granted that is my opinion if albeit an unpopular one.

I question your methods riot and your absolute unfair iron clad removal of a players effort towards an account. I know you probably won't undo my ban as despite your claims I don't believe you actually care about reform or any sort of justice and yes my ONE game I was banned for was particularly "toxic" as your pr team likes to say. I was in a bad mood, I admit my wrongdoing and apologize.

But I was rude for one game. I flamed one person in one game after having my honor reset months after a 2 week ban, and you permabanned me.

I'd like at least the decency to have someone respectfully explain this. It wasn't recent. I'd been good, telling someone to be friends with the freeway for intentionally feeding and calling them a cancer. Is not realistically a reason to permaban someone and if it is that's insane given the nature of this game. Especially when you just implemented a grinding system that makes losing a factor.

I get you deal with "toxicity" and for reasons beyond me that's a serious issue to you. But your permaban system is both unfair and unrealistic. You expect someone to be perfectly well behaved in any and every game. And I just find that unfair.

I know Riot doesn't give a damn about it's players and I could easily just make another account. But I liked my account. I even tried to reform and be good and yes I lost my cool in ONE game. But that's ridiculous that one game affects and entire account forever.

I'd just like a decent human answer. Not some reddit garbage riot fanboy telling me I deserve what I get and how he's perfect and has done no wrong. No, I'd like a single reasonable response from the behavioral team just to explain to me why I'm not allowed to have my account if only to understand the logic that Riot is coming from and try to understand how one game of mean words is equivalent to having ones account removed FOREVER from a game.

I don't think i'm being unreasonable here. yes I was toxic for one game after what's been at least a few months. And that one game was the only log shown to me as well as the only reason for my permaban. Again I have been toxic before and I suffer my punishment and try to be better. But you act like you've never played a league game before and that you don't understand how annoying this game can be at times. Sometimes you don't think when you type and for that I am sorry, but I still feel a ban is uncalled for in a single game just because I was banned months prior.

I'd like a civilized, reasonable answer, though I know i'm probably holding my breath and will get tons of condescension and Reddit style replies.

But still 1 game with 1 log is hardly ban worthy. I'd even just had my honor unlocked. I was at least trying. And if you don't even let us try to be better, then what's the point of pretending you care about players or even pretend that reform is realistic.

95 Comments

ModThe Djinn8 votes

{quoted}I'd like at least the decency to have someone respectfully explain this. It wasn't recent. I'd been good.

A 14-day ban takes a long time to work off your account, which may have been the issue. It's also possible that you exhibited zero-tolerance behavior, which could result in a permanent ban even if you'd gotten your account's standing back up a bit. Without seeing your chat logs I can't really be sure, although I'd like to help more.

If you have your logs, I can better advise. :)

I get you deal with "toxicity" and for reasons beyond me that's a serious issue to you. But your permaban system is both unfair and unrealistic. You expect someone to be perfectly well behaved in any and every game. And I just find that unfair.

The system has a good bit of leeway built in, actually. The severity of an offense can override the leeway though, as some behavior is considered unacceptable, and players with a long history of bad behavior get less leeway in showing reform.

I...to explain to me why I'm not allowed to have my account if only to understand the logic that Riot is coming from and try to understand how one game of mean words is equivalent to having ones account removed FOREVER from a game.

It's less about one game causing that, and more that the history leading up to the 14-day ban and subsequent permanent ban caused it. One game may have pushed you over the edge, certainly, but it's not alone in doing so.

If the log isn't egregious and you truly did have a history of good behavior, you could send a ticket in to Player Support and politely argue your case. They have, very rarely, given players another chance if one relatively harmless game triggers a permanent ban after a long period of great behavior.

CanISpanksYou1 votes

I appreciate your polite answer even if I disagree with it. I don't feel this game has any sort of leeway with language, and yes I probably used the buzzwords. Calling him a cancer and saying "I wish you'd die" yes it's a toxic phrase, yes I probably used the nono words for instaban, but even that is rediculous. People don't control what they say in the heat of the moment. I was mad someone refused to trade and trolled and intentional fed. I spoke with those feelings in mind, i'm not proud of it and after I reflected I said I would not do it again or at least try harder if it meant muting everyone or whatever, I was banned 3 minutes after that game.

Yes this is my chat log yes it probably set off the words, but the fact this game has words that trigger such things still feels so unreasonable. As if no one ever got mad at someone intentionally feeding and said similar things.

Game 1 CanISpanksYou: i love how the people who always refuse to trade are always garbage that shouldn't be the champs they get CanISpanksYou: oh well gg CanISpanksYou: you're a piece of shit stfu and continue to be bad CanISpanksYou: no one likes you and no one ever wants to play with you that's not salt that's fact CanISpanksYou: never said i was a good blitz i wanted to trade fo the champ I could've won with CanISpanksYou: but he's a selfish shit so we lost CanISpanksYou: i got 6/8 hooks but nice defending white knight trash CanISpanksYou: yeah you illiterate trash CanISpanksYou: learn to count or ff and uninstall CanISpanksYou: uninstall you seflish %%%% CanISpanksYou: good alt f4 and leave CanISpanksYou: you're a troll CanISpanksYou: the shit that dives in dies and does nothing? yeah you CanISpanksYou: you're crying right now CanISpanksYou: little hypocrite CanISpanksYou: at least try not to suck beyond reason CanISpanksYou: no i wish i neve rmet you or you'd die CanISpanksYou: either is fine CanISpanksYou: wish it was sooner CanISpanksYou: nah zoe is just intentionally feeding CanISpanksYou: i d/cd CanISpanksYou: well she's openling admitting to trolling and throwing on purpose CanISpanksYou: so feel free to report her CanISpanksYou: what does age have to do with hating someone incompetant and not wanting to play with them? CanISpanksYou: at what age is that a fun thing? CanISpanksYou: I WISH I WAS SMOKING CanISpanksYou: you do CanISpanksYou: and i hope you get nothing but trolls and d/cs CanISpanksYou: trash troll fucker CanISpanksYou: i wouldn't accept getting you once in a game is cancer enough i'd rather repress the memory CanISpanksYou: hope you lose every game zoe CanISpanksYou: worhtless throwing cancer CanISpanksYou: no it wasn't

Actually after looking at the chat it's even less toxic than I thought (yes it's still toxic but I had believed it to be much worse) this isn't really anything outside of a normal game. I get its mean and bad words are involved but is this honestly woth a permaban even after feeling bad about it and attempting to change and not do it again?

I don't think i'm being unreasonable. Yes it's mean text, yes it was toxic, but ban forever toxic? Really? For calling someone a cancer and a troll fucker?

I guess the one line of "wish you would die" could be considered that, but that's not even a threat. I didn't tell him to kill himself, I didn't even say death was the clear option i would've settled for "have never met you" Yes it's toxic and I get it. But I still think it's a bit of an over exaggeration after months of good behavior.

If all it takes is one game of anger how the hell does anyone stay unbanned? This game can be infuriating constantly and I've held my tongue (or fingers rather) many a time with the attempts to be good. But being called the same buzzwords and purposely provoked INTO saying these things by someone trolling on purpose is just kinda unfair. If not a form of entrapment.

I'm not using it as an excuse but I still think being permabanned for this is both unfair and unreasonable. Chat restriction at most. Should at least give some sort of final warning before a permaban is administered. Nothing after months then a sudden forever ban despite my attempts at reforming and my admission of being wrong is still a bit unrealistic.

The game doesn't even have an option for you to try and revoke the banning, that's why I posted this here in the first place. I feel the ban should be reversed, it was one game.

Am I sorry? Yes and not because I got banned but because I feel i was out of line,

DO i feel this deserves a permaban. No, thus why I just want to have a civil conversation about what can be done, I legitimately wanted to reform here. This company makes it impossible to do so with such paper thin guidelines.

I would again like to state this was the ONLY game I got reported for prior to my 2 week back a few months ago and the game that lead to my ban. Should I not be given at least a minor chance to reform?

Is my action really so insane from the norm that I deserve a permaban for ONE game of bad words?

Jo0o7 votes

You're very eloquent and respectful in this thread, but that log is VERY toxic, and it's deeply concerning that you're so adamant that it wasn't.

I mean, you're acting like you snapped and lashed out to call somebody an "idiot" once or something. But this game involves you deliberately tearing into somebody non-stop. You can't possibly think that was okay.

CanISpanksYou: uninstall you seflish %%%%

That's probably all it would have taken to get banned, and you went far beyond with this.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}I don't feel this game has any sort of leeway with language...

With certain language, no (slurs, hate speech, extremely sexist language, etc). With certain behaviors though, it does. We all have games where we're more offensive or negative than perhaps we should be, and that's what gets leeway. A few "don't DO that, you idiot!" will slide every now and again. A game of non-stop harassment will not.

Cursing is also fine, but cursing to insult players isn't. "Fuck that was close!" will NEVER get you in trouble, while "you're trash," despite not using an expletive, will.

I don't think i'm being unreasonable. Yes it's mean text, yes it was toxic, but ban forever toxic? Really? For calling someone a cancer and a troll fucker?

Frankly -- and I know you'll probably disagree -- but yes. This is far worse than I normally see. Nearly ever other line is offensive or insulting, you wish death upon the player, call them sexist slurs, illiterate trash, and more. I don't mean this in an impolite way, but if that's a log that you consider to be acceptable levels of toxicity than I would really recommend finding another gaming community -- this behavior is not (nor will be) considered acceptable in League.

If all it takes is one game of anger how the hell does anyone stay unbanned?

To be blunt, most players stay unbanned because they do not stoop to constant insults when angry. Many of us stay quiet, or express frustration in more polite ways.

Should at least give some sort of final warning before a permaban is administered.

You received one in the form of a 14-day ban. In this case my suspicion is that either you were not as well-behaved as you think (and thus didn't drop in punishment), or the word c**t pushed you over, as that's considered unacceptable (to my knowledge).

I agree that it might be beneficial to put the occasional reminder that a player may still need to watch his or her behavior though. Long gaps between escalating punishments with no reminder can feel pretty awful.

The game doesn't even have an option for you to try and revoke the banning...

It does, actually. You CAN submit a ticket to Player Support, and I have seen a few reversed. It's fairly uncommon in cases that aren't errors though, and, honestly, I doubt you'd see a reversal for this log, as it is rather extreme. Not the MOST extreme (it avoids a lot of triggering language), but pretty bad.

DO i feel this deserves a permaban. No, thus why I just want to have a civil conversation about what can be done, I legitimately wanted to reform here. This company makes it impossible to do so with such paper thin guidelines.

All that can be done at this point in time is contacting Player Support, who will review your case. I wouldn't be optimistic though -- this is a rather hefty and exceedingly negative outburst, and that's not the sort of thing they typically will reverse. Sorry I can't bring better news.

Is my action really so insane from the norm that I deserve a permaban for ONE game of bad words?

It is far enough over the norm to be considered unacceptable if a 14-day ban is still on your account, yes. Absolutely.

Karunamon6 votes

People don't control what they say in the heat of the moment.

Dude, this is a computer. You have to hit enter, type words, and then hit enter again. There is no "heat of the moment". Why is exercising this small amount of self control that most players somehow manage to do held up as some impossible-to-reach goal?

You're not on the LCS stage. You're still in bronze. Even this ranked game is not that important. Lighten up.

Furthermore, you were told when you got your 14 that any further punishments would be permanent. You had to click a big orange button that said "I UNDERSTAND" before you could play anymore. You haven't reformed. If you had, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

If I sound a bit uncaring here, it's because I don't. Your chat log doesn't reflect a "heat of the moment" snap. This is a rationalization because you got caught. You kept going at this person over and over and over again, subjecting your team to that mess, rather than taking the one single action that would have solved the problem: muting them. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of abuse, you'll forgive me for having very little sympathy for the typical "chatlog-shows-awfulness-but-i-can-post-really-nice-on-the-boards-can-i-get-unbanned-plskthx:3?" pattern that repeats here every single day.

Your ban is richly deserved per the terms you agreed to and indicated you understood.

CanISpanksYou1 votes

{quoted}

Dude, this is a computer. You have to hit enter, type words, and then hit enter again. There is no "heat of the moment". Why is exercising this small amount of self control that most players somehow manage to do held up as some impossible-to-reach goal?

You're not on the LCS stage. You're still in bronze. Even this ranked game is not that important. Lighten up.

Furthermore, you were told when you got your 14 that any further punishments would be permanent. You had to click a big orange button that said "I UNDERSTAND" before you could play anymore. You haven't reformed. If you had, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

If I sound a bit uncaring here, it's because I don't. Your chat log doesn't reflect a "heat of the moment" snap. This is a rationalization because you got caught. You kept going at this person over and over and over again, subjecting your team to that mess, rather than taking the one single action that would have solved the problem: muting them. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of abuse, you'll forgive me for having very little sympathy for the typical "chatlog-shows-awfulness-but-i-can-post-really-nice-on-the-boards-can-i-get-unbanned-plskthx:3?" pattern that repeats here every single day.

Your ban is richly deserved per the terms you agreed to and indicated you understood.

And again just to point it out,. Being forced to hit "I understand" is different from consent.

And richly deserved? If you have nothing positive to add to the conversation why join it and be toxic? You're just being hypocritical.

And if I can mute why can't they? Why is my action less toxic than yours? Because I used a few choice words? But being condescending and saying I "richly deserve" a ban from a single game months after a warning I honestly forgot about is somehow not toxic?

Your logic is questionable.

There's also a very strange difference between "reformed" and "Being toxic in a single game months later"

You clearly have nothing valuable to add to the conversation so I'd request you stop commenting and let other people who are willing to have an actual conversation to take place.

I'm not trying to be mean but if all you're going to contribute is "Riot is god you deserve this" then idk why you're talking here.

Karunamon3 votes

And again just to point it out,. Being forced to hit "I understand" is different from consent.

No, the consent was indicated when you made an account.

And richly deserved? If you have nothing positive to add to the conversation why join it and be toxic?

Ah yes, here we go. "'You broke the rules' is toxic" coming from the guy who calls other people cancer and other nasty 4 letter words over a video game.

Let's just let the irony of that statement hang in the air for a moment.

I'm not trying to be mean but if all you're going to contribute is "Riot is god you deserve this" then idk why you're talking here.

Confirmation that the system works as designed. Oh, and "Riot is god" is your words, I just said your ban was deserved. (Which it is).

Don't come here agitating for a deserved ban to be overturned if you're not ready for people to disagree with you.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, and "Riot is god" is your words, I just said your ban was deserved. (Which it is).

Anyone That Speaks In A Passive Aggressive Judgmental Smug-Sense Of Importance That Rides Off Of Punishing Affairs Have No Say In An Environment That Was Erected For Constructive Discussions. You Can See Your Way Out Of This Thread, As We Do Not Need You Puffing Up Your Chest And Writing Redundancies To Increase Your E-Peen.

There Is Not An Inch Of Audacity For You To Say X Is X, This Is What Discussions Are For, And If Your Mind Is Not Open Enough To Discuss, Then You Do Not Need To Impede On Another's Discussion.

Karunamon1 votes

I'll Be The First To Admit I Very Much Get A Sense Of Just Satisfaction From These Threads Because It Shows That People Who Need To Go Away Are Indeed Being Told To Go Away.

(are you doing this by hand? It's tiring, yeesh!)

andzki1 votes

a majority of league players are mostly babies, and riot caters to those babies because they're the majority.

being able to shit talk is a fundamental part of games, kicking someones ass just isn't rewarding when you can't rub it in their face.

I doubt riot will ever change their annoying stance against toxicity

Jo0o6 votes

Shit talking isn't a fundamental part of games.

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

obviously this guy was extremely toxic in this game and probably deserves to be banned. but the way you are on probation for like months and hundreds of games is bizarre.

you can have dozens of toxic games before you are caught and punished the first time. afterwards you might behave yourself for 3 months straight before slipping up 1 single time and it can be a permaban. thats really harsh

in my opinion the probation period lasts way too long. let it be 50 games or something

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=EL HAMSTERO,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-12-28T20:45:54.576+0000)in my opinion the probation period lasts way too long. let it be 50 games or something

At the rate some players play, 50 games would be over in no time. Also, it's worth noting that lesser punishments drop off faster, so a 10-game chat restriction won't actually impact you for very long. A 14-day ban, however, means you need to REALLY show commitment to reforming, which is why it can take so long.

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

well if you go 50 games without being toxic that means you are toxic less than 2% of the time. seems like such a player might not deserve to get banned?

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=EL HAMSTERO,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-12-28T20:53:15.622+0000)

well if you go 50 games without being toxic that means you are toxic less than 2% of the time. seems like such a player might not deserve to get banned?

Well, depends what they do during that 2%. 2% of games spent harassing one player for the whole game is a problem. But it's also easier to show reform for three days and then revert than it is to keep it up, and some players can hit 40-50 games in three or four days easily.

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

why should it matter how many days it takes them to hit it? shouldnt people be allowed to lose their cool every now and then?

so some % of toxic games should be allowed. if 2% is too high for you then 1%. you think someone who is fine for 99 games and then loses their temper in 1 deserves to be permanently banned?

right now its like 6 months straight or 500 games without being toxic. thats just way overboard imo

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=EL HAMSTERO,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:22:36.047+0000)

why should it matter how many days it takes them to hit it? shouldnt people be allowed to lose their cool every now and then?

Because a last-chance punishment that is able to be overturned within a week or two means that players can abuse other players at least 50% of the time. That's way too much.

so some % of toxic games should be allowed. if 2% is too high for you then 1%. you think someone who is fine for 99 games and then loses their temper in 1 deserves to be permanently banned?

Again, it depends on HOW. If they flip out briefly and say "YOU IDIOT. STOP FEEDING YASUO" once or twice, I don't have a huge deal with that 1 out of 100 games. If they spend that one game wishing death on another player, calling them trash and retarded repeatedly, or using hate speech? Yeah, 1/100 is too often. 1/1000 is too often. ONCE is too often. That behavior is CLEARLY unacceptable in a friendly, sportsmanlike community.

right now its like 6 months straight or 500 games without being toxic. thats just way overboard imo

It's about 3-4 months, actually, for the average player. That's frankly about fine, imo, given that it's only those on the LAST stage of punishment that see those timeframes.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:27:04.701+0000)

That behavior is CLEARLY unacceptable in a friendly, sportsmanlike community.

"Friendly" And "Sportsmanlike" Community... What Planet Do You Live On, Because It's Not Earth.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:29:04.421+0000)

"Friendly" And "Sportsmanlike" Community... What Planet Do You Live On, Because It's Not Earth.

My personal League experience has actually been far more friendly and sportsmanlike than the opposite. When you set out to encourage that behavior in others, it works out surprisingly well. :)

CanISpanksYou1 votes

I do understand where you're coming from. But if it is 3-4 months like you said. And my honor was unlocked, then why was I instantly banished for one report? That's the whole thing I understand. Had it been recent sure I'd get it. The whole issue was I wasn't really that bad up until this one single game. Despite what the forum posts will tell you.

I'm just trying to understand that idea if to at least try and prevent it in the future.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}But if it is 3-4 months like you said. And my honor was unlocked, then why was I instantly banished for one report?

Likely because, frankly, your log was pretty awful. One pretty bad game is often the equivalent of many only slightly problematic games, and this one was very toxic. Not the worst ever, but still pretty damn bad. You may have been on good behavior for most of it, but if your "occasional bad behavior" is truly awful rather than just a bit of a problem, the system will still hit it. After a 14-day ban you really ARE on your last chance, and "showing improvement" isn't sufficient -- you really need to show your commitment to restraining and reforming, and that means there isn't really any leeway at that point. Your chances for leeway are used up.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-29T00:55:17.330+0000)

Likely because, frankly, your log was pretty awful. One pretty bad game is often the equivalent of many only slightly problematic games, and this one was very toxic. Not the worst ever, but still pretty damn bad. You may have been on good behavior for most of it, but if your "occasional bad behavior" is truly awful rather than just a bit of a problem, the system will still hit it. After a 14-day ban you really ARE on your last chance, and "showing improvement" isn't sufficient -- you really need to show your commitment to restraining and reforming, and that means there isn't really any leeway at that point. Your chances for leeway are used up.

What Leeway? What You Are Doing Is The Wrong Way.

The Seasons Before These Franken-Shit-Stein Seasons Were The Leeway.

CanISpanksYou1 votes

In all fairness that 2 week ban is super easy to get and I don't think this game has ANY leeway. But maybe I'll try a ticket. I never have much faith in Riot as a company they've never shown any actual care for the players, but I guess I could be wrong....unlikely but it's not like anyone thinks well of Riot Games aside from the most toxic, vindictive individuals.

I'm not trying to be snark but Riot has proven time and time again they only care about PR and profits, they never actually cared about players.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}In all fairness that 2 week ban is super easy to get...

This is rather untrue, as the vast majority of players never receive any punishment, let alone a two-week ban. I know it seems that way for players with problematic behavior, but I promise you it is not a particularly common occurrence across the playerbase.

But maybe I'll try a ticket.

Best of luck. Given the content of your logs, however, I would not be hopeful -- they are pretty bad, frankly.

I'm not trying to be snark but Riot has proven time and time again they only care about PR and profits, they never actually cared about players.

As someone who has interviewed there several times and is on speaking terms with quite a few Rioters? This is, no offense, a bold-faced lie. The entire point of the report system, the honor system, the hextech chest system, the blue essence store, the recent changes to skin re-rolling, the voice chat feature they're mentioned is in the works, etc IS for player satisfaction and to improve the player experience. I've never met a Rioter yet who wasn't personally invested in the player experience.

Sure, at the end of the day some part of the company IS a company, and a company needs to make a profit, but extending that "only money" mentality to the entirely of the company and all their goals and ideals is...well, a huge disservice to everyone I've ever met who works there. I have never talked to a single individual, in any department, who was dismissive of the player experience or who wasn't actively concerned with making the best game possible for the players. Sure, there's probably a few, but it's not a commonplace thing.

Jo0o1 votes

And we can go ahead and fast forward through the next couple exchanges of him calling you a paid shill/apologist and you defending your position, because it's a huge deflection of responsibility to even bring up Riot's business practices. They could be Evil Corp for all I care, it still wouldn't be particularly relevant. The simple rule was to not flame people, and OP went above and beyond in flaming people, multiple times.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

And we can go ahead and fast forward through the next couple exchanges of him calling you a paid shill/apologist and you defending your position, because it's a huge deflection of responsibility to even bring up Riot's business practices. They could be Evil Corp for all I care, it still wouldn't be particularly relevant. The simple rule was to not flame people, and OP went above and beyond in flaming people, multiple times.

Ha! That amused me, although that also wasn't going to happen -- I do know how to exit a conversation. :P

I just like to disabuse the notion that the people behind Riot aren't concerned with the playerbase, more for the sake of anyone reading than the specific person I'm talking to, as it's a thought that pops up occasionally and pretty unfair to them. :)

Ekitaih1 votes

{quoted}

And we can go ahead and fast forward through the next couple exchanges of him calling you a paid shill/apologist and you defending your position, because it's a huge deflection of responsibility to even bring up Riot's business practices. They could be Evil Corp for all I care, it still wouldn't be particularly relevant. The simple rule was to not flame people, and OP went above and beyond in flaming people, multiple times.

{quoted}

Anybody watch Bright? I thought act 1 was PARTICULARLY good, but then the whole thing just went off the rails for me. I dunno, it's a contentious critic vs. audience film, opposite the split for The Last Jedi. Thoughts?[sg-poppy]

Jo0o, why you so adjusted? However, I did watch Bright. I agree it started out pretty good and the message was clear. Buuuuttt it got a little muddled later on. Lol. I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet. XD [slayer-jinx-catface]

P.S. This was what I was gonna respond to you on that other thread... But then the post thread mysteriously disappeared. [sg-miss-fortune]

Jo0o1 votes

I'd have probably gotten deleted anyway, the mods hate it when we go off-topic =P I just couldn't resist, when that thread started off the way it did.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-12-28T20:51:34.786+0000)

At the rate some players play, 50 games would be over in no time. Also, it's worth noting that lesser punishments drop off faster, so a 10-game chat restriction won't actually impact you for very long. A 14-day ban, however, means you need to REALLY show commitment to reforming, which is why it can take so long.

You Can't Reform A Problem By The Weeds, Only Can You Reform A Problem By The Roots, And The Last Time I Checked, You Are A Gaming Company, Not The President Of An Entire Society, Therefore The Behavioral Patterns Of The People Do Not Concern You, As The Patterns Come From Outside Your Gaming Environment, And Even With The System In Place, Nothing Has Changed, Everything Only Has Become More Desensitized Because Of Too Much Sensitivity, Which Is How You Attract The Same Behavior You Wasted Your Time Trying To Get Rid Of.

Riot Needs To Stop Trying To Be Bubble Boy -- That Simple.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:24:19.653+0000)...You Are A Gaming Company

I'm a volunteer community moderator on boards RUN by a gaming company, actually, but that's a minor point. :)

Therefore The Behavioral Patterns Of The People Do Not Concern You, As The Patterns Come From Outside Your Gaming Environment...

That's not really true. If I run a cafe in a city where nearly everyone smokes, I can still declare my private establishment a smoke-free zone because I prefer the environment it creates or want to cater to a non-smoking populace. Riot, as a private company, gets to decide the behavioral policies, if any, they decide to enforce. If you don't like it, you're welcome to find another game that doesn't do so.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:30:14.937+0000)

I'm a volunteer community moderator on boards RUN by a gaming company, actually, but that's a minor point. :)

Collectively, You Are A Part Of The Riot Tree, So I Will Refer To You As The Riot Company, Since You Are A Cog In Its Machine.

That's not really true. If I run a cafe in a city where nearly everyone smokes, I can still declare my private establishment a smoke-free zone because I prefer the environment it creates or want to cater to a non-smoking populace. Riot, as a private company, gets to decide the behavioral policies, if any, they decide to enforce. If you don't like it, you're welcome to find another game that doesn't do so.

Smoking Is A Health Hazard That Can Kill People, While Shit Talking Is A Degenerative Act, But It Is Nothing Like Smoking In A Public Area And Putting People's Health At Risk.

My personal League experience has actually been far more friendly and sportsmanlike than the opposite. When you set out to encourage that behavior in others, it works out surprisingly well. :)

If Your League Experience Has Been "More Friendly" And "More Sportsmanlike", Then You Are Oblivious To The Nature Of The Community That You Moderate, As It Is One Of The Worst Gaming Communities -- Riot Is One Of The Gaming Communities That Embrace Memes And 4 Chan Environments, Which Will Of Course Bring In Degenerates.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=00050000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-28T21:38:50.286+0000)Smoking Is A Health Hazard That Can Kill People, While Shit Talking Is A Degenerative Act, But It Is Nothing Like Smoking In A Public Area And Putting People's Health At Risk.

To use another example -- screaming and arguing are perfectly legal and very commonplace, but I can also ban you from visiting my cafe for screaming and arguing if doing so disturbs my other patrons, and I can make rules against screaming and enforce them. :)

CanISpanksYou1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-12-28T20:51:34.786+0000)

At the rate some players play, 50 games would be over in no time. Also, it's worth noting that lesser punishments drop off faster, so a 10-game chat restriction won't actually impact you for very long. A 14-day ban, however, means you need to REALLY show commitment to reforming, which is why it can take so long.

I'm not trying to argue. But I did play considerably more than 50 games after my ban at the very least I'd like an opportunity or at least like to know what the reform system is or how long someone has to play to not get permabanned from one game...you can understand it's very frustrating to have all that effort thrown in the trash due to a single bad game.

Especially from a company that posts "we all have bad games and understand"

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}Especially from a company that posts "we all have bad games and understand"

"A bad game" is a bit of a slip up, in Riot's vocabulary. I.e. getting a bit heated, maybe tossing an insult out, maybe being overly passive aggressive or a bit nasty. A bad game isn't a game full of insults and some death wishes and crass sexual slurs, on top of a history that led to a 14-day ban. The unfortunate truth is that, when you're already on your last chance, you don't get big slip-ups forgiven as easily. You've had chances to show proper reform before, back when it was easier to do so, and the bar for showing reform raises each time you fail to do so.

Karunamon1 votes

There's two things though - first it's games and time. The number of games and amount of time it takes is unknown.

Second, if you get validly reported during your zero honor time (but not during pre-permaban time), your progress will be reset with no notification. I'd be willing to be most of the people trying to climb out of honor zero are still spouting off at people and climbing very slowly as a result.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

Second, if you get validly reported during your zero honor time (but not during pre-permaban time), your progress will be reset with no notification. I'd be willing to be most of the people trying to climb out of honor zero are still spouting off at people and climbing very slowly as a result.

Here Is Food For Thought.

The Many Seasons Before These Recent Seasons Did NOT Punish People For These Offences And Were Better Environments.

It Was Not Until Riot Sold Out To Tencent When The Toxicity Of The Community, The Game And These Nonsensical Rules / Systems Were Conjured.

That Is When The Problems Arised, That Is Where The Root Of Corruption Must Be Nipped In The Bud, You Playing Judge And Throwing Snide Remarks At People That Get Punished To Make Yourself Feel Better About Yourself Is Not Contributing To The Entirety Of This Discussion.

Karunamon2 votes

The Many Seasons Before These Recent Seasons Did NOT Punish People For These Offences And Were Better Environments.

The behavior systems rose as a response to toxicity, not the other way around. The implementation of Tribunal/IFS correlates with the popularity of LoL and MOBA's as a genre.

MOBAs in general are known to have rough communities. DOTA and LoL are the roughest.

That Is When The Problems Arised, That Is Where The Root Of Corruption Must Be Nipped In The Bud, You Playing Judge And Throwing Snide Remarks At People That Get Punished To Make Yourself Feel Better About Yourself Is Not Contributing To The Entirety Of This Discussion.

The beginning and end of this discussion is as follows:

Banned guy: I was toxic, but (it was unfair/it wasn't that bad). Unban me please. Everyone else: No. Here are the rules you broke and why they exist. Banned guy: Toxic garbage riot fanboys rage rage rage etc.

The OP is not posting in good faith. A good faith post is not one that preemptively insults everyone who disagrees.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

The behavior systems rose as a response to toxicity, not the other way around. The implementation of Tribunal/IFS correlates with the popularity of LoL and MOBA's as a genre.

No, The Behavioral Systems Rose As A Response To A Politically Correct Regime, Which Has No Backbone And Is Based Entirely On Sociopaths That Never Cared For The Well-Being Of The People, And Only Get A Rise Out Of Destroying The Infrastructure Of Everything They Touch With Unrealistic Sociology.

Karunamon2 votes

Totally haven't heard that lame, debunked excuse before either.

It isn't about PC. It isn't about offense. It's about trying to create a sportsmanlike atmosphere. There are plenty of other MOBAs (and other types of games) where you are free to imply how hard you did the enemy's mother last night or tell someone playing badly that they should commit suicide over a fucking video game.

This isn't one of them. If this bothers you, you should go play one of those games.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

It isn't about PC. It isn't about offense. It's about trying to create a sportsmanlike atmosphere. There are plenty of other MOBAs (and other types of games) where you are free to imply how hard you did the enemy's mother last night or tell someone playing badly that they should commit suicide over a fucking video game.

No, No Great Leader Has Ever Peddled "We Just Want To Make It More Secure" ... When They Say "Peace And Security", It's Not Because They Want To Benefit The Human Life, It's So They Have More Control Over Human Life. These Companies, And Gaming Companies, Do More Than Just Control The Gaming Environment, They Control The People With Social Engineering That Has No Realistic Logic Behind It Because It's Tyrannical In Nature.

Karunamon1 votes

You heard it here first, folks. Deciding that you're not okay with people being dicks to each other makes you a a tyrant.

All I can say here is [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

EvilDustMan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2017-12-28T22:00:02.114+0000)

Here Is Food For Thought.

The Many Seasons Before These Recent Seasons Did NOT Punish People For These Offences And Were Better Environments.

This is now a laugh.gif thread

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

This is now a laugh.gif thread

You Do Know That We Laugh By Instinct At Something That Contains Elements Of Truth, Right?

This Is Why Nitrous Oxide Makes Us Laugh.

Lightning Strikes Down On Earth To Supply Earth With Nitrogen To Sustain Its Composure, Laughter Also Keeps Our Composure.

EvilDustMan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=00050001000000010000,timestamp=2017-12-29T00:51:45.834+0000)

You Do Know That We Laugh By Instinct At Something That Contains Elements Of Truth, Right?

This Is Why Nitrous Oxide Makes Us Laugh.

Lightning Strikes Down On Earth To Supply Earth With Nitrogen To Sustain Its Composure, Laughter Also Keeps Our Composure.

Toxicity is absolutely down. Verbally, at least. Feeding, I rarely encounter it, but I rarely encountered it before.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

{quoted}

Toxicity is absolutely down. Verbally, at least. Feeding, I rarely encounter it, but I rarely encountered it before.

I Played This Game During The Older Seasons, And I Played This Game During The Newer Seasons.

The Older Seasons Did Not Have That "GG EZ" Response At The End Before, That Escalated During The Newer Seasons.

The Older Seasons Did Not Have Much Of The Hateful Speech, And People Were Generally Trolling And Being Competitive.

A LOT Of Anger And Emotional Turmoil Surfaced During The NEW Seasons Recently, And I NEVER Saw This Before.

EvilDustMan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Report Season 8,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-29T01:32:23.402+0000)

I Played This Game During The Older Seasons, And I Played This Game During The Newer Seasons.

The Older Seasons Did Not Have That "GG EZ" Response At The End Before, That Escalated During The Newer Seasons.

The Older Seasons Did Not Have Much Of The Hateful Speech, And People Were Generally Trolling And Being Competitive.

A LOT Of Anger And Emotional Turmoil Surfaced During The NEW Seasons Recently, And I NEVER Saw This Before.

So did I.

Everyone said GGEZ, there was plenty of hateful speech if you weren't in absolute top form.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

You know Tencent has held majority of Riot since early 2011, right? So that would be what, season 1 or 2?

Yes, later in 2015 they sold the rest of the equity to Tencent but Tencent already had decision making power with majority.

So this part of your argument doesn't make sense to me.

Daddy Space Lion1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZQaJATJk,comment-id=0005000100000002,timestamp=2017-12-29T03:09:17.713+0000)

Yes, later in 2015 they sold the rest of the equity to Tencent but Tencent already had decision making power with majority.

So this part of your argument doesn't make sense to me.

Except That The Game Did Not Go To Shit Until AFTER 2015 When Riot Was Fully Owned By Tencent.

Not Before At Any %, The Changes That Brought Degeneracy To This Game Was AFTER 2015.

Meaning People That Argue "LUL, TENCENT OWNED RIOT BEFORE 2015 WITH A % ALREADY", Need To Listen.

Riot's Influence Did Not Change Until Riot Was Completely Out Of The Picture, That Is My Point.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

I disagree.

Riot wanted to manage/police the community they made the Tribunal. I believe that was established in 2011. It had the unfortunate drawback of taking to ling to give punishments and often resulted in chat restrictions because of this.

As time progressed they began to make a learning program to handle reports. They used information from the community as a basis. After time they let the bot try judging reports and compared to what the community voted for said case. Tribunal ends in 2014 and the IFS is implemented.

The IFS is able to cycle through reports effectively and efficiently. This results in quicker issued punishments and more bans since there is no longer a backlog. As time progresses the bot learns what the community finds unacceptable and Riot continues to tweak themselves. Yes, there is some "politically in/correct" phrases in it, but most likely those will change as new things take their place. Around the time of the IFS implementation is also when the game began making a bigger esports scene drawing in more players.

So you can argue about this point, but you may also consider that the time is just coincidental.

Jo0o1 votes

We're talking about player behavior in 2017 and this dude in 3017

##memes

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