Boards›Player Behavior

Queue into already existing 4v5 match

Espy Psyche·5/22/2016, 5:18:25 PM·8 votes·1,152 views

We've all had 4v5s. We've all had a LOT of 4v5s. What if there was a way to stop 4v5s once and for all?

Enter "Queue into Existing Match" option.

Basically, when you queue for a match, you can queue either for "New Matches Only" or "New & Existing" -- as well as queueing for your two roles and/or Fill.

Queueing into "New Matches Only" does exactly what current queue does.

If you queue into Existing, when the queue pops, you have a time limit (15 seconds or whatever the current timer to accept a game is) to decide whether you're going in. Since there isn't 9 other people who get sent back to queue if you decline, there's no penalty for repeated declines.

It'll show the tab screen, i.e. what you see in-game when you press Tab. That'll be the entire game score -- tower counts, dragon counts, KDA, champions in game...with the one you'd be subbing in as (and their role) marked.

Now, how we calculate LP and MMR off victories and defeats for the original summoner (OS) and substitute summoner (SS):

All summoners (5 on the enemy team and 4 on the allied team) other than the OS and SS in question get whatever the game result is. Gain LP/MMR on a win, lose it on a loss, at the same rate they would have if the leaver didn't leave.

OS is always assumed to have lost. OS records a Defeat for the match and loses LP and MMR as if they lost the game.

If SS's team wins, SS gets a boosted amount of LP (but keeps the same MMR effect of a match as if SS played the match from 0:00). However, Existing games cannot count as wins (or losses) towards promotional Best-of-3 or Best-of-5 series.

If SS's team loses, SS loses a reduced amount of LP for the loss (but keeps the same MMR effect of a match as if SS played the match from 0:00).

Games enter Existing Queue from when "Reconnect" or "You have been disconnected for inactivity" pops up, but not the "Attempting to Reconnect" that appears in-game if you suffer a momentary disconnect.

The boosted LP gains and reduced LP losses are to encourage players to queue into existing games.

12 Comments

scazzman5/22/2016, 8:41:02 PM3 votes

this is actually a neat idea. you could also make it show how long said person was afk for

TheThundersRoar5/23/2016, 4:49:21 AM1 votes

Great idea. Upvoted for visibility.

Anyway, what if they actually disable LP and MMR gain/loss for the SS in this mode?

The SS might not have as much incentive to tryhard, but on the other hand, this will be much more popular. It's unlikely that people would want to substitute for an AFK when they are more than likely to lose LP because of it. I don't think anyone would want to risk LP by joining an AFK's team. Obviously, we can't make it risk-free, because then it's free LP, like a poker game with no buy-in.

I'm thinking instead of LP, it should be made a separate queue. You would still be placed into ranked games of your MMR (those should be the priority to fill), but LP could be replaced with an IP or Hextech reward as an incentive. Extra IP, or free keys/chests for winning. That way we keep the incentive, but it can still be popular.

GRVet3ran0sS5/23/2016, 10:12:56 AM1 votes

Why do people agree with this holy...the guy that you replace may have had a connection failure and needed to restart. Don't put horrible ideas here

Espy Psyche5/24/2016, 5:32:18 PM1 votes

People agree with this because usually when someone disconnects, they're not going to come back 9 times out of 10.

The reward system for joining existing will need improvements. I know it's not perfect, it was an offhand idea I threw out. The idea of boosted LP for winning and reduced loss for losing was a way of offsetting the risk. Is there a magic balance number to affect this? Possibly. Is there a specific restriction we can place (for example, losses in Join Existing can't reduce your LP below 10 or 30 or some magic number)? Probably.

Risk-free (0 LP loss for a loss and IP gains for a win) is actually a decent possibility. Since you can't get a promo win from Join Existing, the furthest this can boost someone is from the bottom of a division to the top of the division. It won't boost a Bronze player to Gold, because they still have to queue into regular 5v5s and win their best of 3 or best of 5 series to advance, which won't happen without a ridiculous amount of luck and/or the kind of boosting that already exists without Join Existing.

Though Hextech rewards sounds like a really good idea. You're literally improving the game of 4 other people when you queue into Join Existing. Maybe a Key on a loss and a Chest on a win? Or to prevent people from throwing games to get Keys when they have Chests, a key fragment for a loss and a chest for a win?

FreshAsFebreze5/25/2016, 2:05:06 PM1 votes

I would suggest including current score and maybe turrets/drags/barons whatever. In addition to this, how would LP be handled in the ranked system? If you would get docked the same amount as a "New" loss, I would be afraid to join a 4v5 especially if it is a blowout at the point I join. Like the idea though.

Edit: Should of kept reading, just saw your LP ideas. Gotcha now

Espy Psyche5/25/2016, 11:17:54 PM1 votes

Altered original post. Now it can show the Tab screen. This should give all the information anyone needs when it comes to joining a match already in progress.

Espy Psyche5/27/2016, 5:31:19 PM1 votes

I really want this to get more visibility. Specifically, I'd like some insight into how difficult this would be to create from a programming standpoint. Is there a systems reason this couldn't exist?

IgnisImperatrix2/17/2017, 12:43:44 AM1 votes

If you are wanting to look at it from a programmer's standpoint, here it is. First, you have to ask yourself a lot of questions:

  1. How long does a person need to be disconnected for in order for a substitute to be considered allowed?
  2. When a person subs in, what level will they be, how much gold will they have, and what champion will they be?
  3. How many people will queue in just to troll and end the game faster? 4v5s are winnable sometimes if the 5th person does not come back and start feeding.

Second, here are some possible issues:

  1. Player customization. See, when you load into the game, it loads all of YOUR skins, runes and masteries. The way to fix this would be to re-load everyone into the game when someone queues in, but save the game at that moment. Therefore, if the new player loads in, they will be the same champion but with their own customization options.
  2. Options. Should the current players receive a vote dialogue when someone wants to queue in? Or should the sub be automatic? If there is a wait involved, that might make games even longer.