Boards›Player Behavior

Honestly think chat should not be punishable except in extreme cases.

Barkley··2 votes·643 views

There's a mute button. Use it.

Unless someone is shouting racial slurs, homophobic slurs, or culturally insensitive material, anything should go. This is a free country, and if things get too heated for you, there's a mute button.

This is how most games treat chat.

This is how chat should be treated in a country founded on free speech.

I am not suspended, I am not punished, I am not a victim of the IFS or any league of legends affiliated authority. I am just a person making an observation and voicing my opinion. We should not be banning players permanently for anything less than purposely offensive and socially unacceptable speech, as I mentioned above.

This is a competitive game. Chat will get heated. People will flame. People will argue. People will talk a bunch of shit. People's feelings will get hurt. Such is the nature of any competitive thing ever, anywhere, at any time.

The only reportable offenses should be leaving, intentionally feeding, griefing, and hate speech. Things like "Negative attitude" an "Verbal abuse" are easily rectifiable via the already-implemented mute button.

As it stands right now, people are afraid to use chat because of the inconsistency and (apparent) unfairness of the current system. Many players are opting not to use chat at all, myself included, because you just don't know what's going to offend someone anymore, and in this game - a player getting offended could quite possibly mean punishment for you. So why risk it? Just keep your hands off the keyboard. (except to control your character of course.)

That's not a healthy state for a system deemed by the designers as a critical part of the game. In a game where "communication is critical to success" players should not be scared to communicate for fear of punishment. Essentially, if you're not saying "Gee golly willikers, that play sure was swell, good job ol' buddy ol' pal!" with sugar and cherries and chocolate syrup on top, someone may get offended.

So lets do what most other games do, and limit punishable offenses to:

-Hate speech (racism, homophobia, culturally insensitive phrases, threats of violence) -Intentionally feeding -Griefing/harassing team mates with in-game actions -Cheating (third party software, boosting)

Anything else is unnecessary. If players don't like what's going on in chat, you've given them a mute button. Leave it up to them to use it or not.

23 Comments

zPOOPz5 votes

This is how chat should be treated in a country founded on free speech.

[sg-miss-fortune]

Go back to your civic class and learn more about free speech. Specifically, learn the limitations of free speech how about you can be "banned" (jailed in real life) if you cross over those limitations.

Magical Player4 votes

" Not everyone who flames you in one game flames everyone in every game." Woah I like it, not every murderer is a mass murderer, probs should let them go free

You define toxic as you want, I define toxic as I want Riot defines toxic as they want, and 90% of the time people posting logs are toxic, 10% is iffy since I've done that behavior before

Saying you're bad, omg is a minor harassment, do it for hundreds of games and it will get you nicked ifs tracks player behavior so its not looking at 1 game or even 50 games its looking at everygame you've been reported in and makes its judgement

"So just mute them and move on. Why ruin someone else's experience over some simple words that you didn't like? Its vindictive. Its petty. Its like the little kid in 1st grade that goes and tells on everyone for everything. That's what this "report" system has turned people into." Returning this statement to you Why be a dick over a videogame? what are we in the 1st grade and emotionally invested in something that has little value to your life.

Agreeing on the hate speech is bad "wtf are you doing noob" I've never seen a log that had this alone trigger a punishment I've been here quite some time, so thinking thats a little bit a lie

Barkley1 votes

These are some of the most extreme, reaching examples I think you could have possibly come up with, and I think you know that.

Magical Player1 votes

I was mearly replacing the terms You think toxicity should be allowed simply because they're not toxic every game Why should we tolerate it at all? Replace murders with toxicity, the statement doesn't sound right at all both are bad in their respective communities "don't be a dick" is literally the sum of all riot term and conditions Should we not ban for minor harassment, not at 1st But if people refuse to to change from being a dick to not being a dick then I see no issue with a ban being assigned It took 1 punishment in season 3 to stop my dickish behavior

Barkley2 votes

If riot did more to stop toxic players from coming BACK to League, I'd be much more supportive of the idea. Then, to me, they're really concerned with toxicity in the community. They really do care about having a sportsmanlike player base. There's a sort of "code" to follow, and its enforced. Cross it, and you're done. I'm fine with that.

But in its current iteration, its a joke. Its just a means to shut people up about how toxic this community is. Its a band-aid. Its a cover up. Its "No no, our community isn't toxic! Look at all these nifty neato things we're doing to stop toxicity!" When really, they're doing nothing, because a toxic player can just go make another account and go right back to their behavior, free of charge.

So if thats the way they're going to handle it, I say get rid of it. What's the point of the facade? Leave it up to the players to protect themselves. Mute. That's all it takes.

You either care about toxicity in your game community, or you don't. Its all or nothing. You either permaban people by IP address or MAC address, or you don't ban anyone, because what's the point? ESPECIALLY now that runes are free. That was the biggest grind. That was the hardest part. Most people only play 2-3 champions anyway, or at least that's all they need to grind out the IP (BE) to buy more champs.

I know if I had to start a new account tomorrow, all I'd need is my Amumu, my Jarvan, and my Taric, and I'd be climbed back up to where I am now in no time flat. Couple weeks, maybe. Doesn't mean shit to me.

But I'm not toxic in games. Like you, I got my punishment a while back, and stopped. I've spent a great deal of money on this account over the years, don't want to lose it. You know what it was over? I encouraged my team to report a person who was intentionally feeding. This person said IN CHAT in PLAIN ENGLISH "I'm feeding now." "I'm off to go feed." "Feeding now." "I'm Inting." Told my team to report the troll. Got chat restricted for it. I submitted a ticket for it and I was told it was justified because I was swearing. Because apparently adults aren't allowed to use curse words. I wasn't swearing AT anyone. It was more like "Report this fuckin troll." "Get the fuck outta my lane, go fuck someone else's lane up." -- keep in mind this was at a person who was intentionally ruining the game for everyone, and admitted to it in chat. REPEATEDLY. But apparently I'm the toxic one. Checked the match history of said troll. No gaps. 5-6 games a day for weeks afterward, because I checked it about every other day. Nothing happened to them.

My answer to that is to just not chat to anyone. Maybe a "gj" here or there. Too scared to say much else. Don't know what kind of over-sensitive snowflakes I'm playing with. I might say the sky is blue, and because I didn't say its turquoise, I might get reported. you just never know. Not worth the risk. I cuss a lot. I can do that. I'm an adult. but apparently Rito doesn't like cuss words so.... no chat for me. Aint worth getting my account banned. So I just don't say shit.

That's not a good way to play. That's a broken system. That's a system with a glaring flaw. Been plenty of times I could see the right way to win the game, I could see our win condition, but I didn't say shit. Because telling people what to do in this game is "toxic." Making suggestions in this game is "toxic." Telling people what they're doing wrong and what they can do to fix it is "toxic." I mean shit... playing a champion someone doesn't like or buying an item someone doesn't think you should buy is "toxic."

Its just a safety blanket for people with no skin.

Chuck it in the fuck it bucket. Limit chat reports to hate speech only. (Racism, homophobia, culturally derogatory statements, threats of violence, etc.)

Magical Player4 votes

IP banning is a joke anyone with 2 cents and or google can reset their ip same for mac ips So pointless to try banning via ips League is F2P like any game in this genre it is has its flaws.

Riot cares about the toxicity in the community Idk what youre expecting of them, riot doesn't hide the fact people are toxic but they address is best they can

You're statements are direct harassments towards people Report this fucken troll.... "Been plenty of times I could see the right way to win the game, I could see our win condition, but I didn't say shit. Because telling people what to do in this game is "toxic." Making suggestions in this game is "toxic." Telling people what they're doing wrong and what they can do to fix it is "toxic." I mean shit... playing a champion someone doesn't like or buying an item someone doesn't think you should buy is "toxic."" theres more to that story You don't know how to cooperate with people outside telling them how to play what to do etc, and when they don't listen you feel they're trolling you, intentionally throwing. Where are you refuse to acknowledge they're entitled to an opinion as well and entitled to play the game the best they can.

You may not see harassment as punish worthy, hell 90% of games I don't see it punish worthy but I will say if you're a dick in 90% of your games I don't see a reason to accept you to be un punished IFS doesn't punish without reason AKA behavioral patterns so a minor restriction is due from the entire behavior you show in games(not saying you but players in general) hate speech starts at a 14 day ban

Some like yourself want riot to open the door to harassment, some want riot to crack down harder Riot is balancing what the community wants Nobody is ever going to be 100% happy with what riot does So where as you and I may disagree about things end of the day, you're entitled to think that way

Ricje1 votes

{quoted}

If riot did more to stop toxic players from coming BACK to League, I'd be much more supportive of the idea. Then, to me, they're really concerned with toxicity in the community. They really do care about having a sportsmanlike player base. There's a sort of "code" to follow, and its enforced. Cross it, and you're done. I'm fine with that.

They could do that but they would have to break a lot of privacy-related laws in order to get it done and it would cost them a lot of time, effort and money in keeping that system going.

Also; it's not Riot's job to raise and educate a player because the player's parent(s) failed to do so.

Magical Player3 votes

People have a mute button, I'm allowed to be an ass Good logic

Barkley2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Z5nXEo1E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-01T06:55:43.638+0000)

People have a mute button, I'm allowed to be an ass Good logic

I mean if you wanna look at it that way. I look at it more like "I don't have to listen to this guy if I don't want to. Muted."

We already give the players the power in the form of reporting, but that reporting just results in a negative experience for players who may or may not just be having a bad day. Not everyone who flames you in one game flames everyone in every game. Not to mention, go through and browse any number of the "I didn't deserve it" topics in this forum. Read through the chat logs.

I'd venture to say probably 50% of them or more aren't even remotely toxic. Heated? maybe. Passionate? maybe. But this is a competitive game, one that people take pretty seriously. Emotions are gonna run high. Its a big time investment.

I just don't see how someone saying "You're bad, omg" or "Learn to play" or "You're a noob" is a punishable offense. Or even all of them in the same game. Even several times in one game. I just don't agree with it.

Is that player a douche? Probably. In this game. Right now. Under these circumstances.

Is that player a douche otherwise? I don't know, and you don't either, and the automated IFS system CERTAINLY doesn't know.

So just mute them and move on. Why ruin someone else's experience over some simple words that you didn't like? Its vindictive. Its petty. Its like the little kid in 1st grade that goes and tells on everyone for everything. That's what this "report" system has turned people into.

Now.... if someone's yelling n---er, f---got, or some other horrible thing... then yeah. Fuck that shit. Those players need to be removed. Or "kill yourself" or "I'm gonna find you and kill your whole family" or whatever. yeah. Obviously. Get rid of those players.

But "wtf are you doing noob?"

Cmon. Seriously? THAT'S ban-worthy? Read these chat logs, man. Go look at a few. Its laughable.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

In how many cases does the 'toxic' person simply stop at one "you're bad" or "learn to play"? Most of the time they seem to do it a good bit of the game, potentially even trying to 'rally' for reports on the person. Which also means potentially 9 others have to deal with a negative accusing dialogue.

Personal experience: Once when playing Rammus jungle, I checked out the score board and saw I had more farm then my adc Vayne. "Oh, I have more farm than Vayne." (Even with ganking) Vayne's response "You flammin' me?" Last thing I said about it. "No, just an observation." Was passive aggressive sure, but it didn't continue. Nothing else was said about the situation.

Give pointers and not be condescending about it. "Hey, they have Raka. May want to look at an Executioner's Calling." Adc: "Too expensive" Me: "it is 800" Jg: "That all? I'll get one for that."

Two different situations with hard headed adcs. One giving a tip and the other not.

Oxyrotten3 votes

I think labeling people toxic is getting a bit out of hand. If your fed there is nothing wrong with a bit of /all funning. And on the other hand if someone is feeding, there is nothing wrong with offering some tips on how to avoid throwing the game. People should be able to do both of these without it turning into a flame fest because someone's too sensitive to accept criticism.

Barkley1 votes

This. Or... ya know.... like I said, get rid of chat reporting except in extreme cases.

Timethief492 votes

Saying there is a mute Button is like saying there are bulletproof vests after shooting someone.

Tokogawaruf1 votes

heck, never though of that counterargument.

In general, muting should not be THE Solution to peoples bad attitudes, since then they learn that nothing happens even when they throw their Keyboard

Jo0o2 votes

I, a player who uses chat for strategic purposes, should in a perfect world have a reasonable expectation that the individuals I'm playing with will be available to convey strategic messages to.

If harassment, game-spanning bickering fits, and rampant negativity are allowable, my ability to use the chat is compromised. Muting the offenders still compromises my ability to communicate with them.

Better that the system restrict chat privileges of people who abuse the chat system, and escalate to suspensions and permanent bans for repeat offenders.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Then use your mute button on those players. You can still make your play calls while not seeing their caveman drivel. You muting them doesn't mean they've automatically muted you back. Chances are if they want to insult you, they didn't GAF in the first place.

You can't hinder what wasn't there to begin with.

Not saying chat restrictions shouldn't exist and you shouldn't just use chat to spew bigotry, BUT we have always had a tool to deal with this.

Viral Vermin1 votes

Chat restrictions are to teach, and reinforce, the main theme of League. This is a competitive, multiplayer game. Riot is doing the right thing with these "unnecessary" bans, and you're helping prove their correctness with the system by coming here to discuss it. Essentially, Riot is empowering the calmer, team-oriented, focused, leaders to educate the new comers and the toxic players. How? The reporting system finds patterns in players' speech that are destructive, uncompromising, and offensive. Flaming your team and getting reported multiple times by griefing your teammates can't be solved by muting. Why? Because this is supposed to be a team game, and we need to be able to communicate effectively and appropriately, in order to work together, to win.

Barkley2 votes

I completely disagree with you. All it encourages is more problems and more negativity, because at the slightest hint of something someone disagrees with, the FIRST words out of their keyboards (mouths, whatever, pick your poison) is "R E P O R T E D"

There's no constructive conversation. The moment anyone disagrees with anything its "R E P O R T E D" The moment anyone plays less than pefectly its "R E P O R T E D" The moment anyone does anything that's not rainbows sunshine and butterflies.... I think I've made my point.

Viral Vermin1 votes

{quoted}

I completely disagree with you. All it encourages is more problems and more negativity, because at the slightest hint of something someone disagrees with, the FIRST words out of their keyboards (mouths, whatever, pick your poison) is "R E P O R T E D"

There's no constructive conversation. The moment anyone disagrees with anything its "R E P O R T E D" The moment anyone plays less than pefectly its "R E P O R T E D" The moment anyone does anything that's not rainbows sunshine and butterflies.... I think I've made my point.

Those "problems" and "negativity" should not be an obstacle for anyone. The designed purpose is as I stated. The issue isn't the system, it's the player. If you don't see constructive conversation and teamwork, then you're failing just as miserably as the rest of your team. Be a leader. Report real Trolls. Stop blaming your punishment on something the community needs. You find yourself in the games that have "R E P O R T E D" so much, and you obviously lash out in your own way too. That's the kind of people you deserve to play with. Poor communication. Poor understanding. Poor attitude. Poor you! Be better, by being a constructive and effective communicator, or continue to enjoy the punishments and trolls you so very much deserve to be a part of in League.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Honestly even the hate speech is protected under "free speech". Its socially unacceptable to be a bigot but its not a crime. This is key in what makes our country beautiful. Even the most dissenting, unlikeable, hateful opinion can still be heard. And when we hear it, we still have the choice to ignore it and disagree. That same right is what protected the ideas that shunned homophobia, racism, etc and so it should be preserved. Not to mention that policing over words and not actions is ineffective.

Look at Riot using an auto ban system based on what people say to judge them---- Its done 0 to stop anything other than the most obvious trolls.

Meanwhile everyone else is distrustful of each other and even using chat to call out a troll can get you punished. So now no one likes each other and they're just waiting for that negative comment to report you for, or you've snapped and are getting reported for what you say even if you're trying your hardest to win.

Nevermind the fact the mute was completely effective all along and we didn't need to police peoples' words. Can't say things that offend people cuz feelings? Internet said challenge accepted. Riot's losing.

General Esdeath 1 votes

{quoted}

There's a mute button. Use it.

There's an uninstall button, use it. This is like saying we shouldn't arrest people who break into your house since you can just leave and ignore them

Unless someone is shouting racial slurs, homophobic slurs, or culturally insensitive material, anything should go. This is a free country, and if things get too heated for you, there's a mute button.

League of Legends isn't a country #PhreakForPresident

This is how most games treat chat.

Not really, most games have automated systems that just count reports

This is how chat should be treated in a country founded on free speech.

Free speech protects you from the government, and Phreak isn't president yet.

I am not suspended, I am not punished, I am not a victim of the IFS or any league of legends affiliated authority. I am just a person making an observation and voicing my opinion. We should not be banning players permanently for anything less than purposely offensive and socially unacceptable speech, as I mentioned above.

Sounds like you just want to be able to flame without a punishment

This is a competitive game. Chat will get heated. People will flame. People will argue. People will talk a bunch of shit. People&amp's feelings will get hurt. Such is the nature of any competitive thing ever, anywhere, at any time.

Ranked is competitive, no other mode is meant to be competitive.

The only reportable offenses should be leaving, intentionally feeding, griefing, and hate speech. Things like "Negative attitude" an "Verbal abuse" are easily rectifiable via the already-implemented mute button.

Negative attitude is for people who just spam "ff this is over" and give up. Again, a mute button isn't an excuse for toxicity.

As it stands right now, people are afraid to use chat because of the inconsistency and (apparent) unfairness of the current system. Many players are opting not to use chat at all, myself included, because you just don't know what's going to offend someone anymore, and in this game - a player getting offended could quite possibly mean punishment for you. So why risk it? Just keep your hands off the keyboard. (except to control your character of course.)

Nobody is afraid to use chat unless they know they're toxic. I talk every game, for 4 years, never punished. As long as you say nothing toxic, you're fine.

That's not a healthy state for a system deemed by the designers as a critical part of the game. In a game where "communication is critical to success" players should not be scared to communicate for fear of punishment. Essentially, if you';re not saying "Gee golly willikers, that play sure was swell, good job ol' buddy ol' pal!" with sugar and cherries and chocolate syrup on top, someone may get offended.

See above point, also, pings are part of communication

So lets do what most other games do, and limit punishable offenses to:

-Hate speech (racism, homophobia, culturally insensitive phrases, threats of violence) -Intentionally feeding -Griefing/harassing team mates with in-game actions -Cheating (third party software, boosting)

Anything else is unnecessary. If players don't like what's going on in chat, you've given them a mute button. Leave it up to them to use it or not.

Then go play those games. If you don't believe me on how they work, go experience them.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by Barkley

If you're the guy who votes "no" on a remake
Gameplay148 comments
218
votes
Please upvote this thread to raise awareness of Top Laner Syndrome.
Gameplay217 comments
188
votes
Stop resetting my runes to presets.
Gameplay65 comments
175
votes
League is in a critically bad state right now.
Gameplay187 comments
140
votes
Can we, as a community, drop this whole "Holier than thou" attitude?
Gameplay174 comments
131
votes
A public service announcement to ADCs everywhere
Gameplay99 comments
121
votes