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Would fewer players be permabanned if the punishments were harsher?

DrCyanide·11/3/2016, 10:19:47 PM·38 votes·2,558 views

Every once in a while I see a post on this board that tugs at my heart strings. I've seen this story come up a few times, maybe you've seen it too.

A player gets a chat restriction and thinks nothing of it. They may recall a few games where they were extra out of line, admit they were wrong, and move on.

Then they get another chat restriction. Again, a few of their worse games come to mind, but they think to themselves "I've had this punishment before, it's not so bad."

Then comes the 2-week ban with its warning that the next punishment is a permanent ban. It's at this point that the player realizes they really need to change. While there are those that don't try to improve, there are also those that give it their all.

They go two months or so without incident, but then it hits them. The bad day combined with the boosted Bronze 5 teammates who provoke them. They've handled situations like this since their two week ban, but today the old habits raise their ugly head and they lash out. They realize their mistake soon after the game, but it's too late. They're now permabanned.

Usually when this player comes to the boards they don't post about how Riot was wrong, nor do they beg for another chance. They'd love another chance, sure, but what you notice most is the sadness of the post. They were so close to being counted as honestly, truly, completely reformed, and it slipped away from them. If only they'd had more time to try and get it right...

It's for that player that I think the punishment system needs to be changed. I believe that these players can and would have been able to turn their actions around had they started trying sooner. I feel like the best way to get across that they need to change sooner is to have the punishments themselves ramp up sooner, with the exception of the permaban itself.

Imagine if after the 10 game chat restriction you got a 2 week ban. You'd take that pretty seriously, even if there were still punishments after it. I think that might be the best catalyst for players changing, is being kicked from the game for a while.

With that in mind, I think that the punishment system which might help players start reforming sooner would look something like this:

  • 25 game chat restriction
  • You can go a lot of games without needing to talk much. This punishment should be geared towards getting players use to that, even if they're frustrated with their teammates. I'm not sure 10 games with limited chat is enough to get that across
  • 2 week ban
  • This is where the punishment system gets real for most. It's at this step that people try to change, but it may take a bit of practice to get into a habit of responding appropriately, which is why I don't think it should be right up against Permaban. I'd also be in favor of keeping 10 game chat restriction and adding a step after 2 week ban.
  • 4 week ban
  • Roughly a month of no League. It's about as long as a temp ban can possibly be. There's a decent chance players would make smurf accounts at this point, so it's not an ideal punishment by any means.
  • Permaban

I really think this would help people change sooner, but I'm curious what you think. Particularly if you've been through the current punishment system before, do you think you'd respond better or worse to this system?

84 Comments

Krigjer11/3/2016, 11:02:50 PM8 votes

I feel like it should escalate from chat restrictions to 24-hour bans, then 48-hour or whatever is appropriate. Being hit with a 2-week ban after just not being allowed to talk in a game feels like a harsh step up.

I would wager that a majority of people try to reform at the first sign of actual punishment. We're like children- getting grounded for a day made it clear that they mean business but care enough about us actually behaving to give us a second chance.

AeroWaffle11/3/2016, 10:24:38 PM6 votes

Typically, the standard "I was perma-banned!" has the OP claiming that their behavior was acceptable or that they didn't believe it was bad enough to warrant a punishment.

Not, "If only I had more punishments to warn me". The 14-day ban is enough of a slap for most players to realize that Riot doesn't find their behavior acceptable.

If they didn't get the message after a 2-week ban, there's little chance of them getting the message at all.

Weathered11/3/2016, 10:47:10 PM6 votes

Possibly, but for some there is just no hope for reason.

Automated Riven11/3/2016, 10:50:01 PM5 votes

being completely honest. I have played league of legends almost daily for over six years. and I have never recieved a warning or so much as a chat restriction. So no I dont think its too harsh at all. And I have had my bad days where i have raged (rarely) and I have probably trashtalked more abusively then I should have) and somehow i havent ever managed to get myself banned. or chat restricted or whatever. And I am human also. So If i can do it so can other people is my thinking. being honest.

YOU LOST LMAO11/3/2016, 10:23:50 PM4 votes

very well thought out and put together

MonkeyMadness11/4/2016, 10:26:09 AM2 votes

No, ok here's the issue with this bullshit system: people are being permabanned for piddly shit that shouldn't even be considered reportable.

Escalating punishments should only be warranted for escalating behavior. If the behavior improves, the punishment should reflect that. If the behavior remains constant, then that player should continue to receive the same degree of punishment. Obviously if signs of reform don't appear after a significantly long duration, then perhaps an escalation is warranted.

This is why having such a black and white justice system is pure cancer. Look at our legal system: we have a jury that determines guilt based on ALL EVIDENCE PRESENT, and a judge that determines sentencing based on a multitude of factors, not just how many times the defendant was convicted previously. But this is the thing that Riot utterly refuses to comprehend: CONTEXT. The context of a report is so critical in determining what is going on. That's why they used to have the Tribunal, so that peers could review the ENTIRE chat log of a game and determine whether or not the reported player really did something worthy of punishment. Now, there is a bot that scans through the chat log of the reported player (with all other chat absent from the log) to search for key words/phrases identified as "toxic". This is borderline unethical, and it really needs to stop. No other game does this, and for good reason: Riot has sufficiently created a fear of using the in-game chat function based on the fact that if you say anything "out of line" someone will report it, and you will get banned.

League players need to grow up a bit. Sure, report racism and sexism and all that hate speech shit, that needs to go, but when someone gives you criticism or tells you that you're feeding, either that person is right and you are creating a negative experience for your team (whether intentionally or not is irrelevant, feeding causes negativity), or that person is tilted and you should just ignore them (perhaps mute them) and move on. Reporting someone for telling you that you're bad is the real world equivalent of you going to your boss and telling on a coworker that called you a poopy head. Pretty fucking childish.

vampirekid1311/3/2016, 10:23:10 PM2 votes

I don't think that player exists. But I don't think going straight to 25 game chat restrictions followed by 2 and 4 week bans is a idea.

So I am all for it.

Maximum Morde11/3/2016, 10:40:09 PM2 votes

No. The people who get perma banned are the kind of people who don't understand that their actions are wrong. They'd get perma banned regardless due to their own ineptitude.

Athina11/3/2016, 10:40:23 PM2 votes

Personally, I do think that something like this could help out a few players. These would be the players who spend a lot on the game and are legitimately worried about losing their account. However, like you said, people are quick to just create a new account, so things probably wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things. We would just end up with a lot more accounts on temporary suspensions instead of permanent ones in your proposed solution.

The ideal solution to the problem as whole in my eyes is to restrict account creation so that people cannot create a theoretically infinite number of throwaway accounts. I have no idea how Riot might implement that, but without it people can always come back regardless of the punishment systems in place, as long as they don't mind leveling a new account (or buying one I suppose).

Dynikus11/3/2016, 10:40:27 PM2 votes

they don't post about how Riot was wrong, nor do they beg for another chance

a majority of the threads I see about permabanned accounts are exactly that. usually along the format of:

Riot why did you ban me, I didn't do anything wrong. Sure I was toxic and broke the terms of use that I agreed to, but I spent a lot of money on my account and really don't think it was right to ban me because I don't think I was that bad. I only called him a few racial slurs and other derogatory terms, and told everyone to kill themselves. Plz rito unban!!1!

rarely do I see a player that actually admits they deserved their ban.

notice me Sin pi11/3/2016, 10:43:24 PM2 votes

most people who get permabanned often dont know that they are being toxic, or they just dont care

Hyrum Graff11/4/2016, 3:22:12 PM2 votes

I think the real problem is here:

Then they get another chat restriction. Again, a few of their worse games come to mind, but they think to themselves "I've had this punishment before, it's not so bad."

Then comes the 2-week ban with its warning that the next punishment is a permanent ban. It's at this point that the player realizes they really need to change. While there are those that don't try to improve, there are also those that give it their all.

It's at the second punishment, that the player should get the message that this is serious and they really need to change. What if the system went like this? Keep in mind that the idea behind chat restrictions is to make the player think about how they're using their now-limited messages: to communicate about the game, or to flame their team?

  1. 10 game chat restriction
  • This is the early warning that "Hey, your behavior isn't OK."
  1. 2 week ban, followed by 25 game chat restriction
  • The ban is the real wake-up call to start reforming. The chat restrictions are there as a guide, to help the player on their road to reform, as I mentioned above.
  1. 12 hour ban, require the player to type "I understand that my next punishment will be a permanent ban." in order to continue playing
  • The main purpose here is to make sure the player knows they don't have any more chances. The temp ban is intended only to force the player to cool down and not ruin any more games in the heat of the moment.

I think this would solve the problem you bring up. However, I will admit that I am skeptical it would work. I feel like anyone who messes up once after a 2-week is going to mess up again after a 2-week and a last chance warning -- even if they're legitimately trying not to -- just because they lack self-control.

koreansmurf875111/4/2016, 4:33:30 PM2 votes

My main account is perma banned, and its all pretty much true. The thing that feels bad for me is that there were 2 people that were trolling me out of nowerhe and thats the game that resulted in my ban. One of the games, i was standing up for a teamamte while being toxic. Debatable. one of them was 100 percent my fault. Not arguable. This last game is what triggered my ban though and it just sucks

DinkyBoat3311/5/2016, 4:32:00 AM2 votes

you just summed up my past 6 years on this game. thank you and i I hope your suggestion get through because id really hate to see another player lose 6 years and 1000$ like me because someone was just too much a a jerk

MUSHROOM MIDGET11/4/2016, 11:31:22 AM1 votes

it wouldnt work. riot tantrum said they once did a thing where if you leveled an account to 20 without being toxic you could get your account back. and 95% of the people failed.

even a permaban doesnt affect behavior. and it doesnt get much harsher than that.

you just cant change someone's personality with video game punishments. it doesnt work.

Potato Doc11/4/2016, 8:42:36 PM1 votes

So here is a bit of a history lesson for you all. The Romans had the same idea, make the punishment far scarier, and crimes will go down. These punishments include things like crucifixion which is considered one of the worst ways to die.

Did it work? According to historians not at all. Not only the public display of the people suffering during their punishment but the lingering of the body afterwards as an attempt to sway any trouble seekers did almost nothing to the crime rates.

In the same venue increasing punishment will only make people have harsher punishments, it will do little if nothing to the actual rate of punishment. I'm not against it, I am just saying history proves your point invalid.

Dominick Destine11/5/2016, 6:05:24 PM1 votes

This entire thread is a bunch of @#%&

I was hit with a ZERO-TO-PERMABAN punishment for low-to-moderate toxicity. Explain that, cully.