Support Flexibility

Kxnlei·Jul 29, 2019·2 votes·5,176 views

I simply wish to ask if playing support in a different lane is considered a punishable offense? I understand that it's the general idea that they go bot lane with their ADC. However, Riot does not specify that support may only go bottom lane. If I feel my adc is underperforming (in terms of lack of effort, rather than low-quality gameplay) then am I strictly required to stay with them or can I go inhibit another lane where my time will be used more efficiently, helping someone that is also looking to win the game?

29 Comments

ZardoJul 29, 20193 votes

It's not punishable on it's own, but it should be. First off, the adc literally wont be able to get any CS. Second, they'll get 3 player dove. Third, you're soaking xp from champions who need solo xp.

Genuine roaming is fine. You need to go back to lane to prevent dives after you roamed to make plays. If not, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

KxnleiJul 29, 20192 votes

I think you're missing the point, Zardo. The point is that the ADC is already performing terribly. 20 minutes and they have 20 cs even when I'm in lane. They are inting by refusing to play safe and in turn, leaving me to solo a lane by myself when I have little gold income apart from maybe Spellthief's if I'm playing Karma, Lux etc. Other than that, I'm wasting my time supporting someone with no game potential. Would my time not be better spent supporting someone who knows what they're doing? Keep a lane suppressed or even help them push it and snowball them even harder. Good on their team if they 3-man dive my ADC. She already has 50 deaths so they get nothing for going all-in on her but a higher bounty.

GatekeeperTDSJul 29, 20196 votes

It's not punishable on it's own, but it should be.

Unique strategies are not, and will not ever be punishable unless the intent is to harm the game. As a support main, I'm sorry to say this, but we don't serve at the pleasure of the ADC. Every player is there for the whole team. If things aren't going well in the bot lane, you better believe I'm going somewhere else in hopes of getting someone else ahead.

KxnleiJul 29, 20191 votes

Completely agree with you.

GatekeeperTDSJul 29, 20191 votes

Thanks. I'd also like to add that this type of thinking applies to any role. One of the biggest things, in my opinion, that hold people back from progressing and improving is that they pigeonhole themselves into the meta. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and not be so rigid that you never leave your lane or do other things that your opponents might not expect. I myself have been surprised quite a few times by things like the enemy top laner hiding in one of the lower bushes. All of a sudden a Cho'Gath Q comes out of nowhere and I'm fucked because what do we expect? The top later to stay top all the goddamn time, and go right back there after a recall. lol

KxnleiJul 29, 20191 votes

Very true.. if there's an opportunity, take it. No harm in trying.

ZardoJul 29, 20192 votes

As a support main I must also say-

If you want a surefire way to a 4v6, abandoning your ADC is the way to do it. You support your adc because they literally do not have the tools to lane on their own, and without your help they legitimately can't do anything.

GatekeeperTDSJul 29, 20192 votes

I've always disliked the term ADC. The bot laner is not always the carry, and isn't even always a marksman. It's not the same as it used to be in season 3. Sometimes (not always) you have to go with the needs of the many, which means assisting your team as a whole rather than assisting a floundering bot laner. These are tough calls, junglers have to do them too. They have a top laner screaming and crying for ganks, but they're 0/4. The jungler should probably not go there just because that one dude is behind. He should probably focus his efforts on the other lanes who are doing better.

KxnleiJul 29, 20192 votes

And what if they're doing nothing, anyway? I help them do nothing more?

GatekeeperTDSJul 29, 20192 votes

Exactly. It doesn't always dawn on us in the heat of a match that (something * zero) is still zero.

KxnleiJul 29, 20192 votes

Exactly. If they're 0/40 but my KD is still looking reputable for the situation I'm in with 'my' ADC, then I'm going to avoid handing it over to the other team thanks to her deplorable efforts and get in another lane where I can pull the game back in my team's favour.

rujitraJul 29, 20194 votes

There isn't a single ADC who can't farm under tower and not die in lane.

Plus, without the support in lane, they'll level faster.

ZardoJul 29, 20192 votes

There isn't a single ADC who can't farm under tower and not die in lane.

That's just flat out not true.

What's a Jinx supposed to do against Lucian Thresh Elise ?

Plus, without the support in lane, they'll level faster.

ADCs also happen to be the least level reliant class in the game, so that doesn't really mean much.

rujitraJul 29, 20194 votes

Poke with W, E. Farm under tower. Wait for ganks.

ZardoJul 29, 20192 votes

Farm... under tower.... against thresh lucian elise? You're just going to get towerdove...

That's just not going to happen for obvious reasons. Also, most junglers won't gank a solo adc for risk of getting counterganked and wiped.

rujitraJul 29, 20194 votes

Elise isn't going to be in your lane permanently. Dodge the hook. Communicate with your jungler and mid.

This attitude that when you're playing ADC you're the most important thing in the world isn't appropriate.

ZardoJul 29, 20192 votes

Elise isn't going to be in your lane permanently.

No, but when she does come she's going to wrap behind you and pin you so you have to choose between either dodging the hook or cacoon. Also they don't need to hit it with 3 people, they can just brute force you down under tower if elise runs behind you.

Communicate with your jungler and mid.

If you're playing ADC 1v2 you're not going to be able to get the vision to warn your jungler or mid laner in advance.

This attitude that when you're playing ADC you're the most important thing in the world isn't appropriate.

It's not about being the most important thing in the world. It's about the class that is literally designed to have a beyond terrible early game to the point of requiring help. It's about providing them this help.

If my ADC is bad and I can't make plays in my lane completely abandoning them as this thread suggests is the worst idea possible. The enemy will dive them or at the very least force down towers and snowball through tower gold. You don't have to completely abandon your adc to make plays. You can roam and be back to stop the dive.

rujitraJul 29, 20194 votes

I'm sorry but if you can't solo lane as adc, it's not your supports fault. It's completely possible regardless of what you say.

ZardoJul 29, 20191 votes

I'm sorry but if you can't solo lane as adc, it's not your supports fault. It's completely possible regardless of what you say.

Interesting ad hominem coming from a specialist. I'm not an ADC player, i'm a support main. I only play ADC when i'm duoing with a friend who plays support.

Here's a player who consistently does this strategy: https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=nubrac. Do you notice how his ADCs tend to do much, much worse than the enemy ADCs? Do you notice how low mobility ADCs on his team tend to die a lot? Do you notice the negative winrate using this strategy? These are players who are briefed before the game too, so they are prepared for this. How do you think that people who just get ditched will perform?

rujitraJul 29, 20192 votes

He does not communicate with his team at all, and he doesn't help bot Lane at all during the game.

He is a troll, and that is why his team does worse.

SòlKıng RıvenAug 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's not punishable on it's own, but it should be. First off, the adc literally wont be able to get any CS. Second, they'll get 3 player dove. Third, you're soaking xp from champions who need solo xp.

Genuine roaming is fine. You need to go back to lane to prevent dives after you roamed to make plays. If not, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

With rules you have to draw a line, you can't say roaming is okay but staying in a lane is not okay. If they roam and get a kill and then have no-one else in the lane and continue to push for free towers, that would be a punishable offense? If not then where do you draw the line. If roaming is okay then at what point is it overly staying in another lane. Because its okay to take time for a gank, or to even be in the lane when you want to engage. The reason why this is not a punishable offense is because its a slippery slope, someone who would get banned for being in someone elses lane could simply saying they were staying for a kill opportunity, it was a roam not being in a different lane. Likewise if you say the adc has to be getting punished for it to be considered not roaming, the adc will get punished anytime the support roams so that wouldn't be viable either.

C0NCH0BARJul 29, 20193 votes

It's the same thing junglers are supposed to do: Get the most valuable teammate ahead so that you have a better chance at winning. If your adc is dying or not farming due to harass and all in, then you leave to help the other lanes. There's a good chance after the first turret is pushed the adc can farm bot unhindered (with good vision from the support of course. No need to make their already hard comeback any harder) and get solo experience. If the support leaves bot, then there is also a good chance that after the first turret goes down or even before the enemy support will follow you. This gives your adc a handicapped 1v1 instead of a handicapped 2v2. Much easier to dodge and run from 1 person than 2. More easy to punish mistakes as well. Ganks are much stronger in 2v1's than 3v2's. It all adds up. There are cons, of course, but it's a better for the team.

CyceraAug 2, 20192 votes

So you should definitely protect your adc to the best of your ability until about mid game, then you should be free to roam with the team as that's generally when laning phase is over. You want your adc to get as strong as possible in the early game, but if they simply aren't the carry then they simply aren't the carry and your focus should shift to the strongest member of the team (while, of course, protecting the rest of your team as well). Squishies should be protected always, but if it comes to giving your life, save it for the strongest member, not those who step out of formation.

LemexisJul 29, 20191 votes

I did this myself when playing support, and have witnessed it several times, and I think it should definitely not be punishable. And as of right now, I highly doubt that you can get validly reported for trolling when doing that.

I like to be pragmatic and just ask myself whether what I want to do will increase the team's chances of winning or not. If it does, then I should do that. And you're right : sometimes the ADC is absolutely terrible, and for the time I spent maining support, I can tell for sure that in this case, you're wasting your potential by sticking to them, and you can achieve much more by supporting a good laner so that he may snowball harder.

Then again, I'm just some random player, and I'm in bronze, so take what I'm saying for what it is : just an opinion.

KxnleiJul 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I did this myself when playing support, and have witnessed it several times, and I think it should definitely not be punishable. And as of right now, I highly doubt that you can get validly reported for trolling when doing that.

I like to be pragmatic and just ask myself whether what I want to do will increase the team's chances of winning or not. If it does, then I should do that. And you're right : sometimes the ADC is absolutely terrible, and for the time I spent maining support, I can tell for sure that in this case, you're wasting your potential by sticking to them, and you can achieve much more by supporting a good laner so that he may snowball harder.

Then again, I'm just some random player, and I'm in bronze, so take what I'm saying for what it is : just an opinion.

Personally, I believe Bronze is the best rank to have an opinion on this. Gold and above.. they genuinely have people with half a brain. Bronze players? It's often everyone but ADC and Jungle that function properly.

LemexisJul 29, 20191 votes

Well what I meant by "I'm bronze" is more that I don't have enough knowledge and experience with the game to tell you whether what you're doing is objectively good or bad. Just that in my little experience, it seems to have worked.

I don't know about the specific roles, I play top and I've had games where everybody else except my jungler was dumb. I love playing top but it can be very frustrating because I always win lanes (I like to play lane bullies) and do very well... While I'm watching the rest of the team feed like crazy, knowing there is nothing I can do about it and that when midgame arrives it will be too late. But that's something else entirely.

So anyway, I think the results of your polls are pretty straightforward : keep supporting the best players !

KxnleiJul 29, 20191 votes

Oh no. You have definitely found the intricate meta of the game. Top laners can carry very hard, no matter how bad the team are doing. If you play top correctly, you can pull your team's weight with you. That's why I personally like to main top Akali. Her sustainability isn't enough anymore for poke mages thanks to her umpteenth nerf. However, on top, where it's primarily snowball champions and a lot at melee range.. she gets so much poke with her Q and passive. Even with ranged champions, if she can stay safe until 6 then (if the player knows how to play her) she gets a free kill. It's the same for Irelia and Diana.

LemexisJul 29, 20191 votes

Yeah I'm still working on my post-laning phase macro. But sometimes I just wished that both teams were at least even at that point, rather than have to salvage a team that got completely obliterated before the first 15 minutes.

AlpacusJul 30, 20191 votes

Situational. Like your main priority early game is supporting your carry to get him to carry but when you realise your carry won't be able to do that you should focus your attention as soon as the laning phase ends towards the guy who'll most likely carry your team. In my case the guy I duo with a lot plays midlane and is really good do during midgame I tend to hang with him more than my ADC. At this point in the game your ADC is usually able to solo farm so sticking with the guy that most likely will get targeted by the enemy is imo a better option than running behind like a lovesick puppy and meanwhile you have the rest of the team going downhill.