Real toxic behavior and the sad ban system

Darth Sucadic ·Dec 25, 2019·3 votes·2,226 views

What is REAL toxic behavior?

Standing next to an ally and watching him die without trying to help
following an ally around the jungle and last hitting monsters that he spends time trying to kill
farming lane minions while your team does dragon and baron, resulting in a counter wipe

And so on. This type of behavior is what really destroys games. But is it punished? No, of course not. It is written off as "he's just new or unskilled", which usually is not true. Somehow this "new" player knows how to last hit perfectly, and position, and zone, but he too "new" to know how to help an ally or that he shouldn't last hit steal buffs from the jungler.

Instead, what behavior is actually punished:

retaliation: a troll shit talks you, you defend yourself, and you get the ban instead of him.
criticism of any kind: telling someone who is feeding to stop being bad or stop being trash and play defensively
calling someone dumb because they refuses to group or help the team in any way

And so on. Typing text is severely punished when there is no need to. Everyone can use the MUTE button to silence a jerk. There is no need to take away that person's account that they pay good money for.

Riot is too stupid to realize that bullying actually works and it is essential for human development. Why does that kid go to the gym and work hard on getting huge muscles? because he was bullied in school and teased for being scrawny. Why does that billionaire work so hard to make money? Because he was called a loser by the girls he liked in school and he wants to rub his money in their face for calling him a geek.

When I call someone in the game a noob, I'm not being an ass hole. I want him to realize that his behavior is destroying the game and making it impossible to win. When I tell someone who refuses to help their team a bag of trash, I do it with love. I want them to become aware of their allies and start helping them. It is a team game after all. Does a coach of any sport worry about getting banned when he's hard on a player for screwing up? Not really, not unless he physically beats the player or calls him a little %%%%%%. But with this pathetic company, any criticism is "toxic" and must be punished. They protect the trolls, and punish anyone who says anything to them.

The current punishment system is punishing the wrong people. It protects the real trolls and punishes the players who stand up for themselves and just want to have a good game. Years ago, I would maybe encounter a toxic player every 50 games or so. Then they came out with the Tribunal and it increased to every few games. Now with the current witch-hunt system, pretty much every game is totally toxic and destroyed. Everyone is blaming and fishing for something they can report. Every single loss needs a few players blamed and reported. Maybe 1 in 10 games is a GOOD GAME where both sides just play and have fun.

How this company does not see this is beyond me. The level of denial is unbelievable.

29 Comments

MotherKaiserDec 25, 20196 votes

It all comes down to acting like a human being.

Imperial PandaaDec 25, 20195 votes

Rarely do I see people literally standing next to someone, watching them die. More often then not I see people try to force what I feel is a bad fight and double down instead of backing off to recover.

Funnel was/is a strategy that exists. So identifying malicious practice of this vs Funnel isn't easy.

If we picked the enemy Jungle, unless I'm the Jungle, i might feel confident in pushing a lane while my team gets an objective since Smite Advantage. Additionally, there are parts in the game when I know it will take 2 or 3 enemies to deal with my push. Giving an advantage to my team. Forces the enemy to make a choice. Send 1 who probably can't deal with me. Send 2 and be at a numbers disadvantage at the objective. Send 5 to find my team and leave me alone to free push.

Now to the second part:

Defending yourself is muting them. It isn't a physical threat where you might have to strike back to preserve your safety. You can mute and boom, defended.

Omg the solution is to just stop being bad? And all I need was some random person on the internet to tell me that? Man, I can't believe I never thought of just not being bad. Challenger here I come! Oh, now I'm getting killed under my tower while trying to play defensively... Buh I'm trying to follow the Sage advice of "don't be bad".

"Stop feeding" "stop being bad" isn't constructive criticism. Try actual HELPFUL information. Next you are going to try telling a person free falling to stop going down.

Difference in strategy is not punishable in most situations. There are admittedly some fringe cases, but those aren't exactly the norm.

rujitraDec 25, 20195 votes

following an ally around the jungle and last hitting monsters that he spends time trying to kill

This literally is punished - and some of the most viewed/seen threads on the boards have been cases where this was punished.

farming lane minions while your team does dragon and baron, resulting in a counter wipe

Nobody is obligated to agree with you. You don't get to force people to do what you want them to. You are not the boss.

criticism of any kind: telling someone who is feeding to stop being bad or stop being trash and play defensively

If all you say is "you're dying too much please play safer" you will not be punished. If you are INSULTING people, you will be punished. It's pretty simple. Insulting people is insulting them - not criticism.

DontPhuckWithMeDec 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This literally is punished - and some of the most viewed/seen threads on the boards have been cases where this was punished.

Stop lying please. No it is not.

Nobody is obligated to agree with you. You don't get to force people to do what you want them to. You are not the boss.

So you're playing a team game, but playing solo and giving your allies the finger because your allies are not the boss of you. Great attitude.

If all you say is "you're dying too much please play safer" you will not be punished. If you are INSULTING people, you will be punished. It's pretty simple. Insulting people is insulting them - not criticism.

Anything you say to criticize someone else is insulting, no matter how nicely you try to say it, no matter how much you sugar coat it. Even if I say "pretty please don't feed with sugar on top" I'm still going to get punished for hurting the feeder's feelings.

rujitraDec 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Stop lying please. No it is not.

Not lying, it is. Why do you think Nubrac was 2 week banned? Because he was playing a role other than assigned. Just like you're saying.

So you're playing a team game, but playing solo and giving your allies the finger because your allies are not the boss of you. Great attitude.

You're saying they should be given the finger because you want to boss them around. You need to work with them - not tell them what to do. Great attitude.

Anything you say to criticize someone else is insulting, no matter how nicely you try to say it, no matter how much you sugar coat it. Even if I say "pretty please don't feed with sugar on top" I'm still going to get punished for hurting the feeder's feelings.

No, it's not. Period. Saying "please play safer" is constructive criticism that is not insulting at all and will never get you punished. Period.

DontPhuckWithMeDec 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Not lying, it is. Why do you think Nubrac was 2 week banned? Because he was playing a role other than assigned. Just like you're saying.

Horse manure, period. Trolls do this to me pretty much every game trying to get me to say something that they can report. They never get punished.

You're saying they should be given the finger because you want to boss them around. You need to work with them - not tell them what to do. Great attitude.

2v2 bottom lane and every single trade is 1v2 with you spectating and farming minions saying, my ally isn't the boss of me.

4 allies contesting baron asking you for help and you say nah, they can 4v5, they aren't the boss of me, I'm going to farm these lane minions instead.

Expecting allies to help in a team game is not "telling them what to do". Sometimes they lead the play and I follow, sometimes I lead and I expect them to follow. If you can't handle that, please for god's sake, go play single player games. Stay away from team games.

No, it's not. Period. Saying "please play safer" is constructive criticism that is not insulting at all and will never get you punished. Period.

More than 50 accounts banned, I've tried it all. I've tired disabling chat. I've tried giving people compliments. I've tried giving people tips and asking people to ward. In the end, it always gets banned. It is inevitable.

rujitraDec 25, 20191 votes

They literally don't. Feel free to provide clips of this happening to you - I'll be waiting but they don't exist.

Expecting them to help is your expectation - you do not get to demand they do what you expect. They are completely allowed to have their own opinions.

UltimateShield13Dec 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This literally is punished - and some of the most viewed/seen threads on the boards have been cases where this was punished.

Nobody is obligated to agree with you. You don't get to force people to do what you want them to. You are not the boss.

If all you say is "you're dying too much please play safer" you will not be punished. If you are INSULTING people, you will be punished. It's pretty simple. Insulting people is insulting them - not criticism.

What's the difference between "You're dying too much, please play safer" and "you're 0/8, pay attention and play safe"? I ask this because I've gotten chat restricted for saying the latter.

rujitraDec 25, 20192 votes

Because "score shaming" is inherently negative compared to you using logical argument to encourage someone to play safe. Furthermore, your second comment is a demand - there is no request in there, simply you demanding them to do what you want. The first comment is a respectful way to request someone do something. It doesn't take long to add "pls" to a comment - and if you can't do that, then that's not Riot's problem that you think that your teammates don't deserve it. Seriously - that's a prime example of a toxic attitude that deserves punishment - you thinking your teammates don't deserve the respect of typing three easy letters to say please.

It's like the difference between saying "I've worked here for 6 years, I recommend you do X" and saying "you were hired in 2019, pay attention and do what I say".

UltimateShield13Dec 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Because "score shaming" is inherently negative compared to you using logical argument to encourage someone to play safe. Furthermore, your second comment is a demand - there is no request in there, simply you demanding them to do what you want. The first comment is a respectful way to request someone do something. It doesn't take long to add "pls" to a comment - and if you can't do that, then that's not Riot's problem that you think that your teammates don't deserve it. Seriously - that's a prime example of a toxic attitude that deserves punishment - you thinking your teammates don't deserve the respect of typing three easy letters to say please.

It's like the difference between saying "I've worked here for 6 years, I recommend you do X" and saying "you were hired in 2019, pay attention and do what I say".

Wait, you literally just said that I got chat restricted for not saying please! HAHAHA Say hi to Reddit!

rujitraDec 25, 20193 votes

I did not at all say that.

I said that your comment was a demand, and that adding "please" would be a way to make it more respectful. It is not the only way to do it, and you are not restricted for one comment like that.

If you are continually being disrespectful to teammates, you can be restricted, sure. That's not funny. That's not a joke.

Your reply here just further shows that your opinions on the punishment system come from someone who either has been or would be punished by it - not from a community member who wants a respectful game for all. That basically invalidates your own opinion - so I'm not sure why you did that unless you're just trolling the boards. If you're going to be disrespectful to people you're discussing with, and if you're going to refuse to reply to their post and instead create a false "summary" of it, then you're the prime example AGAINST your opinion and for the opinion others have that the rules are necessary.

Congrats, you're either trolling (and I'm no longer going to be feeding you), or you just played yourself.

UltimateShield13Dec 25, 20193 votes

I've said it a million times in the past and I'll say it again: Chat offenses should not result in a game ban, they should result in a chat ban. Unless it's something like death threats or suicidal encouragement. Those are the only cases that warrant an account ban.

ArammusDec 25, 20194 votes

the problem is riot did that, giving people over 1000 games of chatrestriction. these people started to troll.

UltimateShield13Dec 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

the problem is riot did that, giving people over 1000 games of chatrestriction. these people started to troll.

once they troll in game, they would deserve a game ban. I've known planty of players that get banned for toxicity and have never trolled a single game. It's unfair for Riot to assume everyone that gets chat restricted will troll.

ArammusDec 25, 20191 votes

well the problem is that its not so easy to detect trolling.

Blue ShiftDec 25, 20191 votes

Because they removed the tribunal, which would have easily allowed people to see that they were trolling.

Following your jungle around trying to steal his camps, randomly walking into lanes every few waves to steal as much as you can as jg, your support trying to farm your minions, etc...

All these things are clearly trolling and of course some bot will have a hard time detecting it, but humans wouldn't.

zPOOPzDec 25, 20192 votes

At no point in the entire 10 years of LoL's life has Tribunal ever dealt with gameplay offense....

Blue ShiftDec 25, 20191 votes

Do you know what the tribunal was or how it worked?

They removed it before they could do anything with it.

Look at CS:GO's overwatch and tell me how this wouldn't work in League of legends.

zPOOPzDec 25, 20192 votes

Do you?

Blue ShiftDec 25, 20191 votes

It was an area people went and could log in to do some cases. When you started one it showed who reported the suspect, the ENTIRE chat logs, including enemy/friendly, and gave you all the necessary information.

If we just took this and added CS:GO's overwatch feature where you can go into a game at the point people reported them and see what they did, we could start clamping down on the griefing/inting part of league where people are getting off too easy.

You can skip forward and backwards like in a normal replay and be able to see their items, full chat logs, etc...

zPOOPzDec 25, 20192 votes

and do you know the main reason Tribunal was removed? What makes you think that same reason still doesn't exist with League population many times the size of what they were back during the Tribunal era?

rujitraDec 25, 20192 votes

It took 30 seconds to review some of the tribunal cases. It was still backlogged.

It would take tens of minutes to review some of these cases - as players would have to review multiple clips across games to verify if it was a true "mistake" or whether it was intentionally griefing. And you're saying it magically wouldn't be backlogged when it takes many times longer to review each case?

NaymlissDec 25, 20194 votes

Toxic players won't care about chat restrictions. They'll continue ruining games with their toxicity.

UltimateShield13Dec 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Toxic players won't care about chat restrictions. They'll continue ruining games with their toxicity.

show me the data on that? Oh wait, Riot doesn't release exact numbers. They still tell players that only 6 people out of 100,000 get banned for toxicity (0.006%) which we all know is a lie.

Kei143Dec 25, 20191 votes

There are times my team has called for dragon, I look at the map, the power spikes from items and levels and determine it's a super bad call so I stay in lane to farm.

Like .. why would I want to be at dragon pit when the enemy has Malphite, MF and Nami that just hit their power spikes and we don't have bot lane priority?

They get wiped at drag and call me a troll and toxic, where they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Who's the troll now?

ŻügżwängDec 25, 20191 votes

Just type in chat objectively what said player is doing without flaming and accept the game is lost. Write a report after game and move on without giving them a reaction.

It is extremely unfortunate that these players can ruin games with burner accounts. Riot should find these players and punish them faster. But you reacting and getting yourself banned is what they want. Should you be allowed to flame actual troll aholes who ruin the integrity of the game? Riot says no, so follow their rules in the future.

In a sense though. Reacting negatively to trolls is exactly what they want. So you not reacting is the best way to get back at them. Write a comment in chat documenting what they are doing since riot looks at chat logs first likely maybe time stamp , and leave it at that. Report after and move on

Metal JannaDec 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darth Sucadic ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YJPAFsxR,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-25T18:59:15.018+0000)

But with this pathetic company, any criticism is "toxic" and must be punished. They protect the trolls, and punish anyone who says anything to them.

First of all, this is 100% wrong. I main Supporianna so you know I get alot of flame. And I usually don't mute either. I point out their mistakes. I point out that their meta play isn't letting them outperform my nonmeta play. I don't use ZT phrases or swear constantly (it loses impact that way anyway), but I am not nice or friendly to people who blame and flame. I've been playing since Ardent meta and haven't recieved one restriction. My point is: Riot is incredibly forgiving when it comes to "criticism". If you receive a punishment, you earned it. You were not "critiquing", you were full on raging.

Secondly,

Does a coach of any sport worry about getting banned when he's hard on a player for screwing up?

That's your problem. You think you're an authority figure. You're not. Randos aren't going to trust calls/"criticism" from some raging asshole who is, at most, only slightly better at the game than they are. If you were good enough to be an authority figure you wouldn't be matched with them.

Third, you are not getting punished for calling someone's plays "dumb". That is a massive sugercoating of the level of toxicity it takes to trigger a punishment.

Curb your ego and also learn some honesty.