I don't care about "sportsmanship" and I never will

DarkinPrime·Dec 10, 2016·10 votes·3,082 views

If i want to tell my teammates off, then I should be able to. Stop trying to micro manage human behavior. People are always going to be set off when their personal rank depends on 4 strangers.

I don't care how young some people might be on this game. You aren't protecting them with these reports. We ALREADY said the bad words and their virgin eyes read it. What are you stopping here? NOTHING.

As for the adults who get upset because someone yells at them, tough fucking shit. Grow some thicker skin and don't give me god damn attitude because you want me to "be nice" when I type something, as if its not important to type quickly as possible to get back to focusing on the game.

Instead of trying to strong arm peoples behavior, reward good behavior. Forget the god damn chat restrictions and other little hings you guys do. If someone goes a certain amount of games with no negative reports and a lot of good feed back, you should let people earn bonuses in terms of IP and a higher change of getting their primary position.

So in closing, Riot, get off your high horse and stop thinking you can manage human behavior. How arrogant and short sighted. Amazing that you guys had as much success as you have.

98 Comments

Alpha SamsuniDec 10, 201618 votes

Go away.

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

A well thought out reply.

LatetotheRaceDec 10, 201618 votes

To be fair, it's more complex and reasonable than your post.

VoidStaresBackDec 10, 201617 votes

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder388/69530388.jpg

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20162 votes

Nice try, that's cute. Trying to belittle me with that clever little sentence. I'm sure that might work on someone with an IQ of 80, and make them feel bad or stupid.

My post is very reasonable. I understrand human nature, and human nature is like a roaring river. You can't just damn it up, you need to direct it, and often, go with it.

Since you don't understand human nature, probably because you are a wet behind the ears, untested, and weak 19 year old nerdling, I suggest you abstain from commenting on things you don't yet undertstand. Okay, child?

Alpha SamsuniDec 10, 20166 votes

bop.

President Swa1nDec 10, 20165 votes

Still more reasonable than OP

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

Only to kool-aid drinking Riot drones like yourself.

President Swa1nDec 10, 20165 votes

Rammus

LatetotheRaceDec 10, 20166 votes

Think of a better insult, that one is boring.

MartensiticDec 10, 20167 votes

My post is very reasonable. I understrand human nature,

How often did you have to repeat that sentence in front of a mirror before you started to believe it yourself?

LatetotheRaceDec 10, 201610 votes

Human nature.... The concept that apparently humans are uncontrollable beings that spew nothing but garbage and toxicity. Well, what a dull view on humanity you have there. But hey, since you asked so nicely allow me to break down your post.

"If i want to tell my teammates off, then I should be able to" That's just... quite honestly it's rude. Why would you want to be a jerk to 4 random people from around the country. Sure they might not be "at your level" but who cares. You'll interact with them for 20-50 minutes period. Be kind, patient and reasonable. Who knows, you might even make a friend here and there. (Could really do you good.)

"I don't care how young some people might be on this game" OK too bad riot does.

"You aren't protecting them with these reports" No, they're protecting them with the rules set in place.

"What are you stopping here? NOTHING." You from breaking the rules further. 1

"you want me to "be nice" when I type something" You don't need to "be nice" you simply need to be neutral or not a jerk.

"Instead of trying to strong arm peoples behavior, reward good behavior." They do reward good behavior. Look at the crafting system, season rewards, and the continued ability to play the game.

"So in closing, Riot, get off your high horse" They're surprisingly tolerant interestingly enough, just look at you? You've not been banned from the forums yet.

"How arrogant and short sighted" I'm not even going to touch this, as you've already made this point haven't you.

Keep on going at this rate, and you'll be banned in no time. Good luck with that.

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

"Human nature.... The concept that apparently humans are uncontrollable beings that spew nothing but garbage and toxicity. Well, what a dull view on humanity you have there. But hey, since you asked so nicely allow me to break down your post."

No, idiot, you having been thinking.

Part of human nature is this: When a person is powerless they either get sad or mad. When your rank in a game depends on 4 other people, a person will often feel powerless. Riot does little to take the edge off--they don't let you win or lose more or less LP based on your performance in the game or anything. No you lose or win the same amount of LP regardless of your individual performance. Hence players feel powerless. Hence being mad. Get it yet?

Been playing for 2 years on 5 accounts. Haven't been banned yet. So good luck with THAT.

TrulyBlandDec 10, 201611 votes

Nobody is trying to control your feelings. Riot is merely trying to get you to control your actions.

And the reason why you don't gain/lose LP based on individual performance is fairly simple: It shifts the focus from winning the game to maximizing how good the system thinks you are. There are already reported cases of people intentionally dragging out the game to get more CS for an S+... and that's without there being a rank-reward tied to it.

Looking at how often you win may not be a very precise measurement, but it's a very accurate one. It inherently covers every single skill and decision that enhances or reduces your team's chance to win, and that's something an individual performance system will never fully achieve; at least not in a game as complex as LoL.

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

"And the reason why you don't gain/lose LP based on individual performance is fairly simple: It shifts the focus from winning the game to maximizing how good the system thinks you are."

No, it will encourage people to try their best. You will still WIN more LP from doing bad and winning the match than doing well and losing the match. So the incentive to win will still be stronger, and the adjustment of LP won or lost will take the sting off a little and not make players feel so powerless

DrCyanideDec 10, 20166 votes

No, it will encourage people to try their best.

You're implying that people enter Ranked not wanting to do their best right now. Outside of trolls (who will troll no matter what system you impose), I don't think that's the case.

Any personal evaluation of a players game to determine contribution would require a human. There are too many plays that can win the game at the cost of your stats (body block, dying to save an ally), and there are too many plays that can lose the game even if they benefit your stats (staying top and farming/getting a kill or two instead of recalling, letting the enemy kills your Nexus). If you've been playing attention to your games you've seen this in your own decision making and the results.

My best advice is that you focus less on what your teammates are doing wrong and focus more on what you could have done better in reacting to the situation. It shifts things from feeling out of your control to being completely in your control.

TrulyBlandDec 10, 20164 votes

The point I made wasn't "people will no longer care about winning", it's that there is a shift. Winning and losing is binary, decisions that increase and decrease chance to win are more nuanced. And for any system that punishes deaths, for example, there is a definitive threshold at which sacrificing yourself to increase your team's chance to win stops being worth it. Any time people will think "oh well, it's not like it will cost us the game" is when they will do the objectively worse decision for the sake of their personal opinion, because there is a system in place that will reward them to make such decisions via their respective expectation values.

Tyrone LannisterDec 10, 201611 votes

How bout dont be an ass hole

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

How about try to understand my post first before you reply. Stop being such a brain washed, kool-aid drinking Riot drone.

Tyrone LannisterDec 10, 201614 votes

You legit just proved my point. Just because someone doesnt agree with you, doesnt mean that theyre a Riot dick rider or anything like that. I doubt you'll listen. You seem incredibly closed minded.

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20161 votes

You are the one that suggested I was an asshole because YOU didn't agree with my post. Out of the gate, you are name calling. You are a joke. Go away.

Tyrone LannisterDec 10, 20167 votes

Awwwwww did I hurt your feelings?

LBB412Dec 11, 20165 votes

He should probably grow some thicker skin

MartensiticDec 10, 201610 votes

As for the adults who get upset because someone yells at them, tough fucking shit. Grow some thicker skin and don't give me god damn attitude because you want me to "be nice" when I type something, as if its not important to type quickly as possible to get back to focusing on the game.

Oh look, its another "tough guy", cowering in fear behind his internet anonymity.

Lets tell you how the real world works sunshine: Assuming you work at a company, you insult your work collegue because he makes a mistake. Next thing you know, you have the smiling face of a Human-Resources Manager in front of you, telling you that you have 10 minutes to pack your things before security escorts you off premises.

That is how the real world works. Because mistakes happen and can be corrected. A bad mood at the workplace lowers productivity for EVERYONE, and no manager wants that to happen.

And you know that, don't you?

You are not argueing for the good of the community here. You argue for your little insult-parlour, where you can pretend to be a "tough guy" by insulting people, to compensate for the fact that in everyday life, that would have consequences.

Well too bad for you. Same rules apply here. Either accept that, or get banned. Your choice.

RevelstokeDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lets tell you how the real world works sunshine: Assuming you work at a company, you insult your work collegue because he makes a mistake. Next thing you know, you have the smiling face of a Human-Resources Manager in front of you, telling you that you have 10 minutes to pack your things before security escorts you off premises.

That is how the real world works.

I'm sorry, where on earth do you live and what industry are you in? This is so far from reality anywhere I've worked or consulted at in the last 10 years on 3 continents.

MartensiticDec 10, 20165 votes

Then I pity whatever industry you work in.

RevelstokeDec 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Then I pity whatever industry you work in.

I feel sorry for you, it sounds like if anyone has some kind of emotional reaction they are instantly fired (again not reality)

So yeah, given you wouldnt answer my question, I would think your post is actually just forum trashtalk

MartensiticDec 12, 20163 votes

So yeah, given you wouldnt answer my question, I would think your post is actually just forum trashtalk

You can think what you will, its not as if I care...or as if anyone agrees with you. I will not release any personal information on my game account, that's a basic, especially not to satiate the curiosity of random people online.

I feel sorry for you, it sounds like if anyone has some kind of emotional reaction they are instantly fired (again not reality)

Way to ignore what I actually wrote, kudos. I guess when you find yourself out of arguments, you have to make up stuff. Build your strawmen elsewhere.

ModPrandineDec 10, 20166 votes

{quoted}

If i want to tell my teammates off, then I should be able to. Stop trying to micro manage human behavior. People are always going to be set off when their personal rank depends on 4 strangers.

No ones saying that it can't be stressful to climb up in rank when working with random people. However, raging and flaming at them isn't gonna make you climb any faster than you would otherwise. In fact, it might actually take you longer to climb than normal since you're focusing more on telling people off than you are on playing the actual game itself. Instead of getting mad at Riot for promoting teamwork maybe you should try to work on your own behavior instead.

I don't care how young some people might be on this game. You aren't protecting them with these reports. We ALREADY said the bad words and their virgin eyes read it. What are you stopping here? NOTHING.

What we're trying to do is stop these people from ruining even more games than they have already. These kinds of people might enjoy more success and enjoyment if they focused more on themselves and the game than on what others are doing wrong.

As for the adults who get upset because someone yells at them, tough fucking shit. Grow some thicker skin and don't give me god damn attitude because you want me to "be nice" when I type something, as if its not important to type quickly as possible to get back to focusing on the game.

From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.

Lets start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)):

Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter? Players shouldnt need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.

Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules.

With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as Argument from Stoicism and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. You should be able to handle it is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair.

There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS.

This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this.

To sum it up, it's not about having thin-skin, it's about not wanting to deal or put up with someone whose more interested in complaining about other people than on focusing on the actual game itself. We can interact with others without being an immature jerk while doing so.

Instead of trying to strong arm peoples behavior, reward good behavior. Forget the god damn chat restrictions and other little hings you guys do. If someone goes a certain amount of games with no negative reports and a lot of good feed back, you should let people earn bonuses in terms of IP and a higher change of getting their primary position.

The IP rewards I could see maybe happening, but primary position is just something that could be abused. As for chat restrictions they're there to encourage people to use the chat more for gameplay related things and less on raging and flaming at others. It also forces them to decide which they value more: the ability to flame chat others when things go south or being able to even play the game at all while using the chat for more constructive messages.

I also find it a little hypocritical of you how you talk about rewards for no negative reports and allot of good feedback (essentially good behavior) while also criticizing Riots approach for rewarding good behavior. Is it their method for doing so that you have a problem with or do you just dislike that they encourage good behavior in general?

So in closing, Riot, get off your high horse and stop thinking you can manage human behavior. How arrogant and short sighted. Amazing that you guys had as much success as you have.

Kei143 made a post that talks a little about it and it goes as followed:

When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client.

From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment.

I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.

In summary if you don't care about being sportsmanlike or interacting with others in a neutral or positive manner then multiplayer games are not for you.

XinZhao2WinNhaoDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You should be able to handle it is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair.

That's how I feel.

Other people are insulting me and calling me names.

Why do I have to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek while letting them keep calling me names without saying anything back? Why do I have to put up with it?

OlafRagnarsonDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's how I feel.

Other people are insulting me and calling me names.

Why do I have to be the bigger man and turn the other cheek while letting them keep calling me names without saying anything back? Why do I have to put up with it?

Exactly.

DrCyanideDec 10, 20162 votes

Riot's policy is you shouldn't have to put up with it, thus why the punishment system exists for those that make you put up with it.

ÇhåryzårdDec 10, 20165 votes

So you're all about people speaking freely but once people on this thread speak freely and it goes against what you think you throw a tantrum and wet your adult diaper as you sit at home typing out swear word after swear word.

If you want to make a point, try to at least act like an intelligent human being. It's not hard if you really try.

OlafRagnarsonDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So you're all about people speaking freely but once people on this thread speak freely and it goes against what you think you throw a tantrum and wet your adult diaper as you sit at home typing out swear word after swear word.

If you want to make a point, try to at least act like an intelligent human being. It's not hard if you really try.

Maybe if you actually address the point he made.

ÇhåryzårdDec 10, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you actually address the point he made.

What point?

He's just pissy that Riot punishes bad and unwanted behavior and is trying to make excuses for people to act like assholes.

Maybe if he came to the Boards with a better attitude and something actually intelligent to say, and not using filthy language every sentence like a 12 year old, people would respond better.

If you're going to dish it out make sure you can handle the same stuff coming back. He has no room to complain. In fact, this is the kind of stuff he wants allowed in game! Why all of a sudden does he dislike it?

OlafRagnarsonDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What point?

He's just pissy that Riot punishes bad and unwanted behavior and is trying to make excuses for people to act like assholes.

Maybe if he came to the Boards with a better attitude and something actually intelligent to say, and not using filthy language every sentence like a 12 year old, people would respond better.

If you're going to dish it out make sure you can handle the same stuff coming back. He has no room to complain. In fact, this is the kind of stuff he wants allowed in game! Why all of a sudden does he dislike it?

Hmmm okay well, you obviously can't understand the difference between what is being said in game, in real time, about teammates that are not in your control, and posting here where its not real time, and nothing is at stake.

You are no qualified to respond to that post or me. You have demonstrated a total lack of understanding

ÇhåryzårdDec 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Hmmm okay well, you obviously can't understand the difference between what is being said in game, in real time, about teammates that are not in your control, and posting here where its not real time, and nothing is at stake.

You are no qualified to respond to that post or me. You have demonstrated a total lack of understanding

There is no difference. If you act like an asshole, you're an asshole. Doesn't matter why, doesn't matter where, doesn't matter the circumstances. He came to the boards acting like a jerk, is still acting like a jerk, and wants it to be ok for people to be jerks in game.

Once again, maybe if he came to the boards with a better attitude people would respond better. He is perfectly demonstrating the type of behavior he thinks is ok in game, and has 0 room no complain when people don't behave kindly back to him.

If you want to make a point, you don't come here crying about how riot is fully of babies because they wont let you be a meany in game. You construct a good, well mannered, polite suggestion, and then ask for feedback.

ModPrandineDec 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you actually address the point he made.

That's just it though: multiple people here have actually addressed his point (or have at least tried to anyways), some in a more respectful manner than others. The majority of his replies to them though are mostly just filled with insults and name calling simply because they did not agree with him. Try to understand that it's a two-way street. We can try to address someones point all we want, but it doesn't matter much if all they're looking for are Yesman answers and are just gonna lash out at those that disagree with them as well.

OlafRagnarsonDec 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's just it though: multiple people here have actually addressed his point (or have at least tried to anyways), some in a more respectful manner than others. The majority of his replies to them though are mostly just filled with insults and name calling simply because they did not agree with him. Try to understand that it's a two-way street. We can try to address someones point all we want, but it doesn't matter much if all they're looking for are Yesman answers and are just gonna lash out at those that disagree with them as well.

I read the responses and it seems that everyone is trying to A) suggest hes an asshole (which is not what the discussion is about and B)that his idea of human nature is wrong, which he clearly disagrees with.

I happen to agree with him. You change peoples behavior with reward, not punishment. And the current system insulates the instigators who do so using the "right" language--yet the effect is the same. Belittling comments that are design to annoy and offend, yet don't throw up red flags because the wrong words aren't being used. And then when people RIGHTLY react to it, THEY get reported.

ModPrandineDec 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I read the responses and it seems that everyone is trying to A) suggest hes an asshole (which is not what the discussion is about and B)that his idea of human nature is wrong, which he clearly disagrees with.

I've read all the responses too and honestly while some of us (myself included) could have worded our arguments better, he really doesn't help his case by responding with mostly insults and name calling, both of which I'm sure that both of us can agree on.

I happen to agree with him. You change peoples behavior with reward, not punishment. And the current system insulates the instigators who do so using the "right" language--yet the effect is the same. Belittling comments that are design to annoy and offend, yet don't throw up red flags because the wrong words aren't being used. And then when people RIGHTLY react to it, THEY get reported.

Technically Riot already does this. They encourage good behavior by allowing those with good behavior access to hextech crafting as well as giving them surprise mystery gifts every now and then. On the flipside they punish poor behavior by revoking access to such rewards along with giving them chat restrictions and temporary bans before using permabans as a last resort.

Could Riot do a better job at encouraging good behavior and reform? Absolutely. Could the behavior systems doing so better job at detecting and disciplining players who try to skirt the line between punishable and not punishable? Absolutely. Is it still up to the player to decide if they value their account enough to earn these good behaivor rewards and not lash out at others at the first sign(s) of trouble? Absolutely.

RandomoniumDec 10, 20164 votes

Riot isn't micro managing behavior, they are setting a MINIMUM standard of decency to play. Every aspect of our society does the same. If you start screaming and cursing and being disruptive to other customers EVERY business will ask you to leave. Riot is doing to same. Just because some other games don't doesn't mean that Riot shouldn't apply the same standard of decency to their video game that we apply to every other facet of life.

The fact that you can't understand that shows how young and immature and sheltered you are. It shows that your parents just coddled you and gave you everything you wanted and never disciplined you when you acted like a little brat.

Seriously, go into a grocery store or a restaurant or any other business and tell the customers to "go kill yourself" or "get cancer and die" or "shut the fuck up you stupid %%%got." See how long it takes for security to restrain you and for the cops to be called. Some companies will even ban you from coming back (Walmart is notorious for this.)

Riot isn't trying to control you, they're trying to tell you that they don't want your business and they want you to leave. When are you going to take the hint?

OlafRagnarsonDec 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Riot isn't micro managing behavior, they are setting a MINIMUM standard of decency to play. Every aspect of our society does the same. If you start screaming and cursing and being disruptive to other customers EVERY business will ask you to leave. Riot is doing to same. Just because some other games don't doesn't mean that Riot shouldn't apply the same standard of decency to their video game that we apply to every other facet of life.

The fact that you can't understand that shows how young and immature and sheltered you are. It shows that your parents just coddled you and gave you everything you wanted and never disciplined you when you acted like a little brat.

Seriously, go into a grocery store or a restaurant or any other business and tell the customers to "go kill yourself" or "get cancer and die" or "shut the fuck up you stupid %%%got." See how long it takes for security to restrain you and for the cops to be called. Some companies will even ban you from coming back (Walmart is notorious for this.)

Riot isn't trying to control you, they're trying to tell you that they don't want your business and they want you to leave. When are you going to take the hint?

Wrong. I grew up fairly poor and served in the Marine Corps Infantry, serving in combat during the wars.

If i go to the store and someone acts the fool, I would be well within my rights to set them straight. Read the post. I don't come into the game yelling at people. I am the customer that comes into the store and sees another customer making fun of an employee or harassing another customer and I tell them whats up. Maybe with bad language!

Do you see now how stupid your concept of reality is? Wanna respond and further demonstrate your lack of any life experience?

RandomoniumDec 11, 20162 votes

No one comes into a store yelling at someone. The person does some "slight" that sets the asshole off and they overreact. The same can be said for you. I highly doubt every time you rage at your team its for "noble" reasons. If you were ALWAYS defending a teammate who was getting raged at or bullied you MIGHT have a point (like the example of the store employee being made fun of) but that's not what you said in your OP. Your point was that you should be able to say whatever you want to your allies regardless of the situation and you should never get punished for it. Sorry bud but that's not how real life works.

Don't act like you're the only one with life experience. I've got over 8 years in and I'm still on active duty. I'm fine if you want to be a sheep dog but it sounds like you want to be more of a wolf and that's not ok, especially for someone who's served. You should hold yourself to a higher standard.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TRDec 10, 20164 votes

You may not care about sportsmanship, and that's fine, but Rito and the rest of us do. That leaves you with two options: Pretend to care enough that we can't tell the difference or go play another game

JlackBesusDec 10, 20163 votes

As for the adults who get upset because someone yells at them, tough fucking shit. Grow some thicker skin. The amount of babies in this community is crazy.

AzureDragoonDec 10, 20168 votes

This may come as a shocker to you, but it has less to do with any supposed "need" to "Grow a thicker skin" and more "I've been dealing with enough crap and attitude at work. When I get home, and I'm looking to enjoy a few rounds of League, I don't want to deal with your attitude as well."

StonemperorDec 10, 20162 votes

Have you ever played soccer? Hockey etc? People would beat the fuck out of you if you said anything like that in their face...

if someone can't be constructive with their comments, they deserve a chat-restriction. Simple as that

DarkinPrimeDec 10, 20162 votes

In hockey and soccer your teammate don't show up high and unfocused or purposely troll the game to give you a loss.

See the difference? Most flaming comes from people responding to players who are being unreasonable in their actions. Things you yourself would not tolerate in real life. Imagine there was a soccer league that was based on putting random people together on teams, different people every game, and this was a game you take seriously because of whatever reason--money, rewards, glory etc. And you get some teammate that sign up for this clearly not caring if they win or lose. How would you react?

So how about you roll back your very short sighted, idiotic comment. You can't base your argument in reality because you clearly just demonstrated a lack of logic and human nature. Go away now, troll.

President Swa1nDec 10, 20166 votes

If you REALLY wanted to win, you would be rational and NOT flame him.

Flaming guarantees a negative atmosphere and your team will crash and burn.