Instant Feedback System is severely flawed

HomuncRoguee··2 votes·2,119 views

I have seen plenty of moderators reply to threads regarding bans and they say this whole system is supposed to allow for a chance to reform and change. Well I recently got perma-banned after only receiving one 14-day ban. I had zero other warnings. No chat restrictions prior to the 14 day. Very next one is permanent. Tried to point that out in a ticket and they insist I received chat restrictions. Guarantee I did not receive any such thing. And honestly my 14 day ban did scare me enough into reforming. Did I get perfect instantly? No. Did I show signs of wanting to reform? Absolutely. Did Riot care? Sadly, no. I doubt this will accomplish anything, but something obviously needs done with this system when a veteran player who has donated countless hours and a lot of money to this game gets perma banned after only ONE warning. Anyways, rant over I guess. Thanks.

29 Comments

rujitra11 votes

The 14 day ban makes extremely clear that any further misbehavior will result in a permanent ban. And if they said you got chat restrictions, then you did and have forgotten them - but even if you didn't, you must've done something so incredibly against the rules to merit the instant 14 day ban.

Regardless, you had a chance of reform, and you blew it. It doesn't matter how much you want to not run the red light, if you don't take your foot off the gas and put it on the brake, you're at fault.

Lastly, your time/money spent doesn't give you the right to break the rules, nor does it give you any special treatment.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

{quoted}

The 14 day ban makes extremely clear that any further misbehavior will result in a permanent ban. And if they said you got chat restrictions, then you did and have forgotten them - but even if you didn't, you must've done something so incredibly against the rules to merit the instant 14 day ban.

Regardless, you had a chance of reform, and you blew it. It doesn't matter how much you want to not run the red light, if you don't take your foot off the gas and put it on the brake, you're at fault.

Lastly, your time/money spent doesn't give you the right to break the rules, nor does it give you any special treatment.

This I agree with. I see your kind of biased, but you actually make strong points here. If only you could have been this straight forward on my post.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

It's basic common sense. I dunno what else you would want to be clear with.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

It's common sense to not receive the 4 step warning? I'm sorry, but can you further explain?

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Yes, it's common sense to not receive the 4 step warning simply by not talking shit & stay quiet while playing. Good job right there!

And secondly:

5 game chat restrictions -> 25 games chat restriction -> 14 days suspension -> Permanent Ban

See up there? You got a 14 days suspension, and the next one is strictly a permaban. No negotiation on what punishment you could "choose" to receive.

Julevi1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, it's common sense to not receive the 4 step warning simply by not talking shit & stay quiet while playing. Good job right there!

And secondly:

5 game chat restrictions -> 25 games chat restriction -> 14 days suspension -> Permanent Ban

See up there? You got a 14 days suspension, and the next one is strictly a permaban. No negotiation on what punishment you could "choose" to receive.

Sorry to say but one part of your statement is false: it's a 10 game chat restriction as the first punishment step. Besides that the next punishment step after a 14-day-suspension can be a 14-day-ban again given that enough "time" (Riot measures this in games played) with positive behaviour has passed.

Nice Yasuo1 votes

{quoted}

It's common sense to not receive the 4 step warning? I'm sorry, but can you further explain?

I sincerely doubt it was a fault in riot's system to surpass chat restrics straight into permaban nobody here has had a game where they werent really angry and we've all probably flamed some but none of us have done it to excess where we're perma'd. That being said, if it wasnt ur chat logs you obviously did some in game-trolling that someone sent proof of more than once

HomuncRoguee1 votes

No, I did not get chat restrictions. Riot is mistaken on this one, but due to horrid customer support, I don't expect you to get that.

I attempted to reform, but due to receiving only one warning, I was not able to. You have made it clear you don't care about nor even want players to reform. It's easier for you to write them off.

I don't expect my time/money to receive special treatment, I expect the SAME treatment, which I did not receive.

rujitra7 votes

"I was not able to". That's not Riot's problem. You did receive the same treatment - for certain behaviors that are so incredibly and obviously against the rules, it's possible to skip chat restrictions.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

Yes, I was not able to because Riot did not give me a chance to, I'm sorry but one warning is not enough chance for someone to reform. perfectly. And It was for general toxicity, nothing severe, never used bots or cheated in any way(which people seem to actually get away with more than being toxic here, as busted as that is). I've also been told the 4 step system is in place for EVERYONE. Combination of my case not being severe and me not receiving the 4 steps is my issue. I know you wont help me, that's been made clear. Just want people to be on the weary that this system is severely flawed and Riot has zero interest in fixing it or aiding players who were wronged by said flaws.

rujitra2 votes

Whatever behavior you did to merit an instant 14 day ban, you shouldn't NEED a warning that such behavior is not okay.

The system is not flawed. You not only did something heinous to get an instant 14 day ban, you continued misbehaving after doing so. The system then removed you from the game.

Further, the 4 step system is in place for everyone. However, as I've said multiple times, there are certain behaviors that are so incredibly and obviously against the rules that they skip chat restrictions.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

And as I told you, my actions do not fall anywhere near the category of "so incredibly and obviously against the rules". General toxicity used to not even be cared about in this game, and now perma bans are being handed out for it without even warning the player fairly. It's a drastic change that both needs to be addressed and can be shocking to long time players who get banned for something that used to not even be an issue in Riot's eyes. I hope you can understand my confusion at least.

rujitra3 votes

You saying that doesn't mean it's true.

Either you had chat restrictions and forgot them, or your behavior did fall into that category.

You were fairly warned and you did not take action on that warning. That's not Riot's fault.

Lastly, the rules have not meaningfully changed since season 1-2. The only thing that's changed is the use of a more consistent and faster system to punish now.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

Just as you saying what you are does not make it true.

I did not have chat restrictions, and as I said it was general toxicity. I'm fairly certain even you can confirm that does not fall into that category.

I was not fairly warned, and even despite that Riot showed no interest in my very clear attempt to reform. So that is definitely on RIot.

The rules may not have changed, but the system definitely has. My toxicity has not changed from season 1-2. To go from never being punished to a perma ban with no fair warning means something has obviously changed for the worst.

rujitra1 votes

What you consider general toxicity may not be what the rules say it is.

You very likely either forgot your chat restrictions, or have failed to notice yourself getting more toxic over the years.

You did get fair warning. The 14 day ban made very clear the next punishment for any rule violations would be a permanent ban. You didn't improve your behavior. You were warned, but didn't heed it.

Further, you didn't reform. It doesn't matter that you saw the yellow light and intended to stop but didn't. It matters that the light was changing and you ran the red light. You were given the yellow light. You didn't stop before the red light

Julevi2 votes

The 4-step-system is the common procedure but, as rujitra already mentioned, extreme behaviour can skip certain steps. So whoever told you about the system left out this important fact.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

I understand that now. I actually thought it was somewhere in the summoners code, but even if not, one of the people who have told me this was a moderator, so I assumed I could trust it as an accurate source of information. That all being said, my case still fell no where near the category of "heinous" enough to warrant no chat restrictions.

GatekeeperTDS1 votes

As far as horrid customer support goes, please remember that you are not Riot's target customer. You chose to break the rules and ruin the experience for those you play with. You caused a scene, and were shown the door.

Ninjas Flossing4 votes

the instant feedback system is indeed flawed but not for the reason you gave. its flawed because it does not does not catch enough of the toxic behavior. its not flawed because it caught and punished you.

HomuncRoguee1 votes

That is an absolute lie. When a player is banned with zero chat restrictions for basic toxicity, and no rule breaking, that means the system is over active. Not under active, as you claim it to be.

Ninjas Flossing1 votes

chat restrictions come BEFORE the 14 day ban not between

DarkCaves2 votes

Do you have chat logs from the 14 day ban and the perma ban, by chance?

Nice Yasuo2 votes

{quoted}

Do you have chat logs from the 14 day ban and the perma ban, by chance?

14 day ban chat logs is what im interested in, the resulting perma-ban is a ban where your account is on "thin ice" and can be given the ban hammer for a small number of minor infractions. So the perma-ban chat logs might not even look that bad, again that 14 day ban tho i know its gotta be juicy

HomuncRoguee1 votes

Upon logging in I only see the perma ban ones. Not sure if I can still acquire the 14-day ones or not? But they're not much different to be honest. General toxicity and flaming back to players who initially flamed. Been a big downfall of mine, the inability to ignore flamers.

DarkCaves3 votes

You can try to send in a support ticket to Riot asking for the logs from the previous ban.

KFCeytron1 votes

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We have a zero-tolerance policy for extreme negative behavior as well as extremely offensive language and remarks made in game towards other players. Since it is a severe disregard for the Summoner’s Code this sort of behavior can result in skipping to a Two week or Permanent suspension. Suspensions of this degree based on negative behavior will not likely be reduced or removed.

I'm happy to hear that your behavior has improved, but the system wants your behavior to be acceptable, not just less unacceptable than what you have demonstrated in the past.

You weren't punished for misbehaving in one game. You were punished for misbehaving in one more game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing.

Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account.

Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban.

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:

  • First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction
  • Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
  • Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
  • Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours).

From Riot's support knowledgebase:

We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

To skip chat restrictions usually means you used something in the zero tolerance area, such as; Kys, or some kind of Slur/Hate Speech.

Assuming your logs this time did not contain either of such and you are sincere; you actually serve as an example of a post I made a while back. I feel it is sometimes difficult to skip punishment steps, and then be perma'd for a lesser offense that you haven't gotten to learn from yet.

EvilDustMan1 votes

Okay, show us the chat logs.

Arcade Lulu1 votes

On your 14 day ban report card it CLEARLY said that the next offence will lead to a permanent ban So you were fairly warned So you had a chance to reform, but you didn't and broke the rules again

You being a veteran and using a lot of money and time on the game doesn't matter at all because same rules apply to everyone

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