Boards›Player Behavior

The current behavior system needs an overhaul

Great Muta··4 votes·628 views

Here's why:

  • Everyone already gets loot. If you are good for x games, there is nothing given for doing so. The only thing that can happen is that it can be taken away. I don't need to work towards anything. There's no reward like if you are good for x games, you get x. You get it already. The ribbons on the loading screen are also very hard to get and the path to getting them is not clear.

  • The loot isn't worth it. I've gotten 5-6 skin shards so far. I don't have the Orange Essence to actually afford the Brolaf skin I want at 1800 Orange Essence. I would have to sell all but Brolaf just to have it. So what have I done? Nothing. They just sit there. And sit there. I've unlocked exactly 0 skins so far despite over a hundred games. The drop rates are questionable as well and if you aren't winning, you won't get fragments AFAIK. It's basically just a cocktease.

  • No one knows when you get loot back if you get punished. I've played for months without getting any loot. If there's no end point for the punishment, there's little reason to work towards getting out of it

  • Bad games are the ones where reports are most often thrown around. Find me a game where a team gets stomped as solo's where no one asks for reports. Won't happen often. Players who have bad games more or feel trapped by surrender refusals, are a lot more likely to have punishment issues in the game. Being forced to play with people who you can't get along with + losing hard + team refusing to surrender(which extends the stress and gives you more time to flame) = punishments.

  • There are no cooldown periods after incidents like with CSGO. If you leave you get a penalty. However, when you don't leave for x amount of days/games, there is no more penalty and you start from scratch. There is no such system with League until the season ends when punishments are reset. You get punished at the start of the season? You'll be dealing with it until the end. Even if you reformed your behavior, 1 lucky bogus report could get you banned.

  • Asking for reports is effective. Every game I've ever got punished in has featured teammates asking for reports. You ask for a report and you have a 1/9 chance that someone hits the report button. Even if the report is bogus, if you've had a bad game like the one I just mentioned above, Riot will likely find something to justify the punishment since they go through chat logs. We don't know how far back they go either to justify it, so in theory, they could be going back 10 games. We just don't know. We saw it weeks ago where the one user just said "Draven". Even though the report was bogus, Riot went through his history and found stuff to justify the report and the punishment stood.

  • Submitting bogus reports is effective. No one has posted since the tribunal days about getting in trouble for false reporting. I've looked. If the report was bogus, Riot will go through your chat history and find something. You might as well report in the hopes that your report triggered the domino effect. Sure, you might lose "report weight" but none of us know the exact science behind it. And due to the actions in games, especially in losing games, I could legit report 2-3 people a game and somewhere in the chat log, there would be justification.

  • Champ select is effectively a free for fall. You can't report in pre-game chat. You can submit a support ticket, but we don't know if it actually accomplishes anything. If someone says they are going to troll or afk, you are the one who would get punished for dodging, not them. A troll is the most powerful thing in champ select as they can ban your picks, steal your picks and pick stuff that is likely not to work.

  • The premade has the power. I played with a premade yesterday. One of them goes AFK. They won't remake due to not wanting to get him in trouble, so they voted no on remake. 4 man premades have a 1/4 chance of being the lucky report and their odds are just better than you. You say anything negative about one of them and you have to deal with all 4. Meanwhile, they will win every argument and can do as they please, because they can vote no on surrenders.

  • League is by design guaranteed to cause negativity. You are paired up with strangers, you don't always get the role you want(and don't give me anecdotal evidence arguing it), you don't always get the champion you want. You can't pick the champs you will fight and you can't pick the champs your teammates will choose. You might not even get a ban with only 3 bans available. You can't remove chat. You can get reported for not chatting. You can't ask for chat restrictions and get that wish granted(I've tried). You can't leave a bad game or you get leaverbustered. If the team doesn't want to surrender, you are stuck. You can't fully mute everyone as all mutes end at champ select. And worst of all, punishments are just not consistent. People have threatened to murder me and burn my house down, but they still played. People fed on purpose in my games but still played the next one. These are all obstacles that have to be overcome consistently in League.

  • Making new accounts is free. I have 2 accounts. I was punished on one and unpunished on the other. When I was suspended, I immediately played on my other account. When I didn't get loot, I got it on my other account. There is no way to fully ban someone from the game unless you do it by IP, and even then, you have to make sure it's not at a public place/apartment complex and you have to make sure their IP doesn't get changed. I also don't know many players above gold who don't have a second account. Once you've hit what you think your max rank is, you might as well rank up another account if you don't think you can advance further.

Riot needs to take a look at all of these things in order to rework the behavior system, as it is too easy to circumvent or abuse and the loot just isn't worth it.

NOTE - Trolls will be ignored and any downvotes without actual arguments will be seen as vote manipulation.

38 Comments

ModPrandine3 votes

From Riot Tantram:

Actually, Erdrik is correct here.

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

Great Muta1 votes

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt.

Not disagreeing here

The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc

By a bot or their system, whatever you want to call it. Again, no disagreements here.

False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

That report might not be counted, but when you get punished, it is always from multiple games, which is what I'm arguing. 1 Bogus report can finally be the report that sets you at the flag limit for a punishment. Whether or not the bogus report counts or not does not matter, as you will be punished when they see previous games. 1 bogus report can lead to you getting punished.

Let's say you need 3 flags to get punished. Flag 1 and 2 are legit. Flag 3 is not. Instead of Riot saying "this flag was not correct, no punishment should happen", Riot says "Well, that was not correct, but you still had 2 other games with issues and instead of requiring 3 flags, it's now 2 and the punishment stands". This is my problem along with reporting guidelines not being super clear, well enforced or sometimes even noticeable(see the example below).

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating

I would argue not communicating is negative behavior in itself especially if you are doing something else. We had an Amumu Thursday night. He didn't say anything, but he legit stood in the jungle for prolonged periods of time. And I'm being completely honest. He'd find a bush and sit for minutes. You report for negative attitude and it might fit, but how can the system really prove it if he doesn't chat? You can kind of report for AFK, but he really wasn't AFK. It's stuff like this that doesn't fall into a distinct category which makes it super hard to catch and punish, but is clearly bad behavior. This is why the system needs an overhaul.

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-10-01T20:37:52.069+0000)

Not disagreeing here

By a bot or their system, whatever you want to call it. Again, no disagreements here.

That report might not be counted, but when you get punished, it is always from multiple games, which is what I'm arguing. 1 Bogus report can finally be the report that sets you at the flag limit for a punishment. Whether or not the bogus report counts or not does not matter, as you will be punished when they see previous games. 1 bogus report can lead to you getting punished.

Let's say you need 3 flags to get punished. Flag 1 and 2 are legit. Flag 3 is not. Instead of Riot saying "this flag was not correct, no punishment should happen", Riot says "Well, that was not correct, but you still had 2 other games with issues and instead of requiring 3 flags, it's now 2 and the punishment stands". This is my problem along with reporting guidelines not being super clear, well enforced or sometimes even noticeable(see the example below).

Keep in mind that while Reform Cards only show up to 3 games, in actuality the person in question has been valid reported in more than just 3 games, something that allot of people don't seem to realize. Bottom line: if you have a history of consistent negative behavior then you can expect to be held accountable for your own poor behavior.

I would argue not communicating is negative behavior in itself especially if you are doing something else. We had an Amumu Thursday night. He didn't say anything, but he legit stood in the jungle for prolonged periods of time. And I'm being completely honest. He'd find a bush and sit for minutes. You report for negative attitude and it might fit, but how can the system really prove it if he doesn't chat? You can kind of report for AFK, but he really wasn't AFK. It's stuff like this that doesn't fall into a distinct category which makes it super hard to catch and punish, but is clearly bad behavior. This is why the system needs an overhaul.

Usually cases like that require a manual review, and it can often take longer than normal for a gameplay troll to be punished since the system has to be sure that they're not punishing someone by mistake. That being said though however, if they get consistently reported for that kind of behavior, the system will eventually pick up on that kind of behavior and ban them accordingly. Leaverbuster also helps to track subtle attempts to try to be afk but not afk at the same time. Here are two examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it's just two examples, but it proves that they do get punished.

Great Muta1 votes

Keep in mind that while Reform Cards only show up to 3 games

I think I may have had 5 games show on my reform card before.

in actuality the person in question has been reported in more than just 3 games

Including bogus reports. Legit or not, they count in the initial flagging, which part of my issue with the system.

Usually cases like that require a manual review, and it can often take longer than normal for a gameplay troll to be punished since the system has to be sure that they're not punishing someone by mistake.

Yep. And we don't exactly know how to get that manual review. We truly have no idea what happens once we submit a ticket to riot support for player behavior. I know I've personally never seen the message after sending in a ticket that a player has been punished. This is another part of the problem. To do this kind of stuff would require an army of player support reps and take astronomical amounts of time. This is where the tribunal was helpful - lots of people who reviewed games for free.

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-01T21:11:35.273+0000)

I think I may have had 5 games show on my reform card before.

In the Tribunal yes that was the case. However nowadays it's a max of 3.

Including bogus reports. Legit or not, they count in the initial flagging, which part of my issue with the system.

Again, false reports don't count and are thrown out. If nothing punishable is found then nothing happens to the reportee while the reporter has their report weight go down, making their future reports less important until they start to make valid reports.

Yep. And we don't exactly know how to get that manual review. We truly have no idea what happens once we submit a ticket to riot support for player behavior. I know I've personally never seen the message after sending in a ticket that a player has been punished. This is another part of the problem. To do this kind of stuff would require an army of player support reps and take astronomical amounts of time. This is where the tribunal was helpful - lots of people who reviewed games for free.

Unless it is absolutely necessary there is no need to file a follow-up Support Ticket on the matter. As long as you've reported someone for poor behavior then you've done your job. The problem with the Tribunal though is that it was slow and took a long time to actually punish people for poor behavior. With the Instant Feedback System this is no longer the case, and while some people may slip through the cracks every now and then, eventually they will be punished if they keep getting valid reported for poor behavior.

Great Muta1 votes

Again, false reports don't count and are thrown out. If nothing punishable is found then nothing happens to the reportee while the reporter has their report weight go down, making their future reports less important until they start to make valid reports.

Legit or not, they count in the initial flagging, which part of my issue with the system.

Report weight is another issue that needs looked at, which I mentioned. I legit could report 3 people per game no problem if I wanted to. But without people manually taking a look, it just looks like I'm throwing out bogus reports and would destroy my report weight. Truly, players in this game are that awful that you could find 3 people to report per game. Riot also needs much more intensive guidelines on what is reportable and what's not as the current options just aren't super clear.

Unless it is absolutely necessary there is no need to file a follow-up Support Ticket on the matter. As long as you've reported someone for poor behavior then you've done your job.

Another issue, which I've mentioned above is that Riot's reporting system just isn't that great. People don't get punished and some people get punished for little. People who threaten to murder and burn down houses shouldn't be playing and almost everyone I've ever sent a ticket in for is still playing.

The problem with the Tribunal though is that it was slow and took a long time to actually punish people for poor behavior.

I would rather have slow and correct then quick and questionable. Any good judge will tell you it's about getting it right even if it takes longer.

With the Instant Feedback System this is no longer the case, and while some people may slip through the cracks every now and then, eventually they will be punished if they keep getting valid reported for poor behavior.

The last problem of course is that almost everyone past gold has a 2nd account and players like me cannot be banned. We will just play on another account. A person with time and/or money will not be affected by a ban.

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-01T21:35:10.556+0000)

Legit or not, they count in the initial flagging, which part of my issue with the system.

Report weight is another issue that needs looked at, which I mentioned. I legit could report 3 people per game no problem if I wanted to. But without people manually taking a look, it just looks like I'm throwing out bogus reports and would destroy my report weight. Truly, players in this game are that awful that you could find 3 people to report per game. Riot also needs much more intensive guidelines on what is reportable and what's not as the current options just aren't super clear.

Regarding the initial flagging, again even if they do since they are false reports they ultimately won't get someone punished. Regarding report weight, I don't know the specifics, but from what I understand as long as you know that you're not making a ton of false reports then you won't have to worry about your report weight being hit hard, if at all. Regarding the report guidelines, the reason why there are no specifics is to prevent people from trying to game the system. As long as you're not doing or saying anything that you know will get you in trouble and/or tick other people off then you won't have to worry about getting valid reported.

Another issue, which I've mentioned above is that Riot's reporting system just isn't that great. People don't get punished and some people get punished for little. People who threaten to murder and burn down houses shouldn't be playing and almost everyone I've ever sent a ticket in for is still playing.

I would rather have slow and correct then quick and questionable. Any good judge will tell you it's about getting it right even if it takes longer.

No one ever said that it was perfect (it never will be), and while it does have its flaws it still does its job well overall. Yes some people slip through the cracks, but keep in mind that that happened even while the Tribunal was still up. While having manual reviews for every single case would be nice, there's just no way that Riot could look at them all in a reasonable amount of time. The IFS was built around what the community and Riot deem as poor and acceptable behavior,. so it allows Riot to focus on the more extreme cases while the IFS takes care of the traditional cases.

The last problem of course is that almost everyone past gold has a 2nd account and players like me cannot be banned. We will just play on another account. A person with time and/or money will not be affected by a ban.

Even so it doesn't matter for a couple of reasons.

  1. Riot has ways of tracking peoples smurf accounts, so if Riot finds out that someone is trying to circumvent their ban they can track and punish them outright.
  2. Lower leveled accounts are judged more harshly than higher leveled accounts are for this very reason, to dissuade trolls from trying to circumvent their punishments by playing on smurf accounts.
  3. If a punished player continues with the same behavior that got their first account in trouble, they'll just keep getting punished again and again until they either shape up or ship out.
Great Muta1 votes

Regarding the initial flagging, again even if they do since they are false reports they ultimately won't get someone punished.

That report might not, but it goes off more than one report and even if its bogus, they still don't reset your account to where you need another flag to spur a punishment. So the bogus report does count as the final flag, when it should be discounted.

Regarding report weight, I don't know the specifics,

No one does, which is another problem.

Regarding the report guidelines, the reason why there are no specifics is to prevent people from trying to game the system.

It might help people game the system but it will also check people as to where they are. If you know you need another report before you get in trouble, you are likely going to be on your best behavior. It's hard for me to treat Rito seriously when people are making death threats and still being allowed to play.

While having manual reviews for every single case would be nice, there's just no way that Riot could look at them all in a reasonable amount of time.

They can't, but a redesigned Tribunal could. Offer some bonuses for x correct reviews and it will accomplish more.

Riot has ways of tracking peoples smurf accounts, so if Riot finds out that someone is trying to circumvent their ban they can track and punish them outright.

They really don't unless it's Tyler1.

If a punished player continues with the same behavior that got their first account in trouble, they'll just keep getting punished again and again until they either shape up or ship out.

I just play on my other account if I run into any issues and wait for the new season to begin when punishments reset.

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

In that situation you described, regardless of whether Flag 3 being bogus can trigger a punishment (jury's still out on that one until we get a very explicit statement describing how it works), even Flags 1 and 2 should not have been necessary. Don't do the things that get you flagged in the first place and you'll never be at risk for a punishment. It's really not at all difficult.

Great Muta1 votes

In that situation you described, regardless of whether Flag 3 being bogus can trigger a punishment (jury's still out on that one until we get a very explicit statement describing how it works)

It would be really helpful if we knew.

Don't do the things that get you flagged in the first place and you'll never be at risk for a punishment. It's really not at all difficult.

This is the next issue. We have an idea of what bad behavior is, but we don't know how sensitive it is. I've definitely reported people just for saying "ez" before, some small one offs and stuff like complaining about cs, complaining about ks's and other smaller things. Is it really negative behavior? Riot needs guidelines so user's know. It's not clear and it's not clear how sensitive the system is. You either have to make very clear guidelines or not punish at all. Will it take work? You bet. Could it slow down bad behaviors? For certain. Would it lead to better games and more accurate reports? Definitely.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Imagine a hypothetical world exactly like normal except that everyone is completely featureless and impossible to tell apart from everyone else. You need to tailor your behavior so that, if you were to walk down a street in this fictional world, your comments would never get you punched. If you aren't certain whether something your're about to say might be insulting and hit someone too close to home, then tone it down or don't say it all.

I'm not suggesting that every time you cause offense you need to bow and scrape and apologize like your life depended on it. I'm just saying you should go "oops" and try not to do it again carelessly.

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1HvNiEO.png%3Fnoredirect&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=150

Great Muta1 votes

See the problem is, in the real world when I go to play a game of basketball, if someone is intentionally scoring baskets for the other team or harassing me, I leave the game. You get harassed or see someone throwing and are at the point where you just want to get away from the guy in League? Leaverbuster punishment.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

That's a whole other bag of cats, I'd say. Can't reasonably expect to fix it by being nice to the feeder, but mouthing off at them will still make it worse.

Great Muta1 votes

Real world > League of Legends.

League has always made it so the person who responds to trolls is a lot more likely to be punished than the actual troll.

Few other games have this problem, just League. People are nastier at times on CSGO, but mutes are permanent and you don't lose your account like that.

Act bad in a few games? You get a cooldown. Stop being bad? The cooldown is reset. Not a progressive punishment system like League.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

If you've come up with a detection criteria to pick up trolls without also grabbing every player that's just having an off day and playing poorly, Riot would love to hear about it.

Great Muta1 votes

That's why I write here.

Unfortunately, as you can see with some of the other posters, it's not a discussion as a popularity contest. I wish all of the people downvoting would actually discuss instead, but they won't. While some might not like my views, I think I've gone in-depth to explain where the issues are.

Personally, I would fix the system this way:

**Champ select: **

  • Have an option to report.

  • Offer a survey for dodges so Riot can understand why a user dodged with choices like 1) bad matchup, 2) Suddenly had to leave, 3) Person threatening to troll, 4) Team troll banned my pick to be nasty, etc.

  • Offer 1 free dodge per so many games or per x days, maybe even a week.

  • Like Overwatch does, recommend picks or roles that need filled. Some people are so new that they legit don't know off-meta stupid picks won't work.

  • Offer every player a chance to ban. Riot has mentioned this and will likely implement it.

  • Make an option where teammates cannot ban each other's picks. This would eliminate troll bans.

In game:

  • Have mics. It does decrease nastiness and humanizes players.

  • When a user mutes another user, the mute is permanent and can only be changed when the user manually unmutes them. CSGO does this and it works out great.

  • Have scaling punishments for DC's/AFK's while also allowing the user to drop tiers in punishments for x games without afk's. CSGO does this.

  • Offer hextech rewards for x games with no AFK's.

  • When an AFK occurs, allow users the option to leave the game without punishment or lp loss. DOTA does this already and made it so it's not abused.

  • Fix the remake system so it actually recognizes AFK's and DC'd players. Extend the time to 5 minutes. DOTA does this.

  • Offer 15 minute surrenders. Riot mentioned this.

  • Install a Mercy rule where the game can be ended even if the surrender vote doesn't go in (due to trolls) once the gold lead is clearly too far unbalanced. Riot has discussed this.

  • Eliminate DQ or make a system where you can do SQ, DQ or opt in for both. Rocket League has various options to meet these needs with a lot less players.

  • Look at eliminating all-chat. It's usually just used for bullying, trash talking or report rallying purposes.

  • Offer users the option to disable chat.

Post game chat:

  • Eliminate it. It's useless. It's either trash talking, bragging, rallying for reports or people sending "i love you" letters to and from themselves.

  • More reporting options and clearer descriptions of each category.

  • As mentioned above, users muted in game stay muted in post-game chat.

  • Offer more honoring options like "great warder", "unselfish", "smart player", "skilled at x champion" and others. These would create new ribbons/banners on champ select that would promote positive behavior. Being honored multiple times by different players(not just your premade) could also trigger maybe some extra IP or something.

These would all help and make the game much better.

Sarutobi2 votes

I'm not quite sure what your first point is trying to point out. Everyone gets loots that's correct. But you also do get a rewards for playing well (getting an S rank) as that helps you with getting champion masteries!

Your second point is a personal opinion. Despite me owning all the champions I have a large amount of champion shards, but I save them so I can get the champion shards for champions I want to improve in masteries! But again if you don't like the rewards oh well. It's free so I don't see why it needs to be the greatest gift to give every single chest you get. That's not the point. It's a random reward and some times you win some times you lose!

Point 3 I can understand why they wouldn't want people to know when they get loot again. It's suppose to be a punishment and knowing when to get loot back is just making people being fake because usually they'll be toxic either way!

Points 4 and 5 leds me to believe you have no idea how reports or the ban system works. First off bogus reports are thrown out. So I'm not sure why you think that even if a report is bogus they will still get punished . Also if this is the same "draven" post I remember seeing a rioter talk to him and it was an error with the chatlogs. The rioter even shown him the full chatlogs and was satisfied about the ban. It was an error but they didn't look up more games to punish him so I'm not sure where you are getting that!

Since this post is already long enough I'll comment later on the other points you try to make!

Great Muta1 votes

Despite me owning all the champions I have a large amount of champion shards, but I save them so I can get the champion shards for champions I want to improve in masteries!

I do not like the mastery system in anyway. The mastery system only shows that you 1) played a lot of games on that champ and 2) Paid in Blue Essence to get it. If you bought chests and used any of the blue essence or champion shards, you basically just paid to get your mastery level. I have a 70% winrate with Sejuani and many people have a much higher mastery level than me, despite me being strong with the champ. It means nothing, just cosmetic.

I actually didn't mention champion shards.

First off bogus reports are thrown out.

Riot looks at your chat history to justify or overturn punishments. You can still get banned if the bogus report was the lucky one. Anytime you get restrictions, it shows your last few games chat history. If the last 2 reports were bogus and you said nothing, but the first report was correct, Riot will uphold the ban.

Sarutobi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-01T16:38:36.492+0000)

I do not like the mastery system in anyway. The mastery system only shows that you 1) played a lot of games on that champ and 2) Paid in Blue Essence to get it. If you bought chests and used any of the blue essence or champion shards, you basically just paid to get your mastery level. I have a 70% winrate with Sejuani and many people have a much higher mastery level than me, despite me being strong with the champ. It means nothing, just cosmetic.

I actually didn't mention champion shards.

Riot looks at your chat history to justify or overturn punishments. You can still get banned if the bogus report was the lucky one. Anytime you get restrictions, it shows your last few games chat history. If the last 2 reports were bogus and you said nothing, but the first report was correct, Riot will uphold the ban.

Again that is your opinion. If you don't like champion maasteries that's on you. It's still a fresh content that needs to be improved on. If you don't like it just don't use the feature it's that simple and let the people who do enjoy it l, enjoy it. If you can make it better by all means make a post about it and get the community feedbacks about it.

As with the bogus reports I'm not quite sure I understand. If you get chatlogs and two are bogus but one is legit it really shouldn't matter you are still breaking the rules. Let alone the fact that chatlogs isn't really a good thing to go by since they only show you the three recent games you were reported in. They don't show you anything else like past reports which I'm sure they look through while reviewing a case. So all it comes down to is what you did reportable if it was you'll get punished.

Great Muta1 votes

As with the bogus reports I'm not quite sure I understand. If you get chatlogs and two are bogus but one is legit it really shouldn't matter you are still breaking the rules.

You broke the rules in previous games, not the one you got reported for. It'd be like being punished for a robbery you weren't involved in simply because you had committed a robbery before. It's not good.

They don't show you anything else like past reports which I'm sure they look through while reviewing a case.

Have you ever been restricted/banned? As soon as you get a temp ban, it shows you the chat logs of your last 3-5 games. Game 1 might have been a legit report. Game 5 might have been a bogus report, but they will see all 5 of them and say "well, you were negative in Game 1, so we will uphold the punishment".

Jorencice4 votes

No. It would be like getting reported for a robbery you wernt involved in and while the police were looking into it they found evidence to punish you for a old robbery.

You still did wrong. And you still DESERVED to be punished. Just because you didnt get caught the first time doesnt mean your suddenly immune to punishment.

Basically your complaing its harder to be an ass and not get punished...

100% legit IMO

Great Muta1 votes

Oh it's Paragon again, the vote manipulator.

No. It would be like getting reported for a robbery you wernt involved in and while the police were looking into it they found evidence to punish you for a old robbery.

This is really just spinning what I said, adding an extra detail and still getting to the same point. So I'm glad you agree.

Just because you didnt get caught the first time doesnt mean your suddenly immune to punishment

I'm not even sure what you are referring to here. Who got punished?

Basically your complaing its harder to be an ass and not get punished...

In this game, I actually think it is. Any tips or advice is going to come across as flaming to most people. Saying GG and stuff comes across as sarcasm. Critiquing any type of play is going to come across as a flame.

And above all else, the punishment levels do not cool down. You get a 2 week suspension? You better not play on that account or absolutely mute everyone until after the next season begins when punishments reset.

Jorencice1 votes

That doesn't matter. Say GG all you want. You WILL NOT be punished.

Just don't critique. No one wants tto hear it. And no one ever listens anyway. Its a waste of everyone's time.

Also how did you not understand what I was referring to.

Okay I'll break it down.

Let's say you played 3 games and trolled the first 2 but not the last (we are going to also say you went to a store 3 times and robbed them the first 2 times).

Basically what your complaining about is that when you went to the store (played a game of league) for the final time someone called the cops on you (reported you) for a completely bogus thing like the color of your hat (you played yasou).

So the cops (game masters) looked into your history and found out you had dome something wrong (it doesn't matter that it was in the past. It was still wrong and deserving of ounishment)

What your saying is the reporting system is bullshit because you shouldn't off been caught and punished for the first 2 games (robberies) because the person who reported you did so for a bogus reason.

Who gives a shit if someone false reports you and riot has to look back ONE THOUSAND GAMES to punish you.

They obviously found something worth punishing that you were never punished for.

fumiefan2 votes

Right on all accounts. Hope Riot takes a look at this.

nerak232 votes

I am the OP.

I know your the OP and I did read your comments. Your passively trying to insult me!

That is fine. League is what it is like it or not. No one makes anyone play or pay for this game. Good Day Sir!

Great Muta1 votes

I truly didn't insult you. Disagreeing with you, yes. Insulted, no.

nerak231 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-10-01T20:27:33.402+0000)

I truly didn't insult you. Disagreeing with you, yes. Insulted, no.

Fine and I'm not upset, although others ( in a certain situation) might be....So, I want to use this as learning tip.

What I feel and you feel are insults or breaking rules are different. Right?

Muta, can you understand that from a 20 min. - an hour of game things can be misinterpreted? I'm sure you can!

We have been chatting awhile now and had time to think some things threw, but in a standard game people don't have the time to think about it...Now, I'm not saying anything about what you do in game because I have no ideal...but, consider heated opinions in an already frustrated person packed into less then an hour.

Can you feel what I'm saying here, can you at least try to understand why people may report others?

If you want to talk about this concept here on the boards, I may have time tomorrow to make a thread, or you could befriend me. Again, I don't have much time all together to work with. But, I'd make time to hear your real 'opinions' the ones you don't want posted here. We are all just people, I invite anyone who'd like to share their opinion with me to do so.

Tomorrow I will try to set a private club on my own board if it would help me understand better.

Good Luck, Muta !

Great Muta1 votes

What I feel and you feel are insults or breaking rules are different. Right?

Maybe

Muta, can you understand that from a 20 min. - an hour of game things can be misinterpreted? I'm sure you can!

Yep

Can you feel what I'm saying here, can you at least try to understand why people may report others?

Sure. Just as it is used for legitimate purposes, it also is used for bogus purposes.

GLHF.

nerak231 votes

Have you ever been restricted/banned? As soon as you get a temp ban, it shows you the chat logs of your last 3-5 games. Game 1 might have been a legit report. Game 5 might have been a bogus report, but they will see all 5 of them and say "well, you were negative in Game 1, so we will uphold the punishment".

And if your other games were bannible? Riot doesn't just pick people out of thin air to punish...hahaha

If you get any punishment the system will take a look at you harder and more often as it should! If it was a false report "No Problem" they won't find anything else. But, Sometimes the thing is if people report you they have a reason....

I can agree the system needs an overhaul....needs more people to watch, report and punish people who act like an Ass. IMO and that is all it is an opinion...if you get reported and punished and Play by the rules each of us agreed to then No worries. 1st punishment will eventually wear out. If not then it is time to piss and moan...Not talking about you OP, just in general it's how it works. Gl though

Great Muta1 votes

And if your other games were bannible? Riot doesn't just pick people out of thin air to punish...hahaha

Did you actually read the quote you quoted? Game 1 might have been legitimate. But if Game 5 was also reported and it was bogus, Riot will use Game 1 to justify Game 5's ban.

If you get any punishment the system will take a look at you harder and more often as it should! If it was a false report "No Problem" they won't find anything else. But, Sometimes the thing is if people report you they have a reason....

And sometimes they don't have a legitimate reason. I've seen people report just for picking champs they don't like or even for using skins they don't like. But if one of the reported people had a bad game previously, that's really all it takes to justify the ban, even if it started on something illegitimate.

nerak231 votes

And sometimes they don't have a legitimate reason. I've seen people report just for picking champs they don't like or even for using skins they don't like. But if one of the reported people had a bad game previously, that's really all it takes to justify the ban, even if it started on something illegitimate.

This is where your mistaking among other parts. If your 1st time report against you is Not legit, Riot does Not hold that against you....I'm talking about after reports against you where punishment or at least a warning was given.

It Does Not start with a Jerk reporting a player for No reason! And, if said Jerk continues to report others for no reason the report value goes down when they hit the button.

Now, I'm not accusing you of anything, but this thread reads like a person is pissed and want to vent. Go for it, just don't expect everyone to agree with you..Good Day Sir.

Oh By the way: I read just fine! ..."Did you actually read the quote you quoted?" of course I did ! If any game your reported in is legit then you are still in the same place, broke the rules and complain about it.. If you want information about how this works ASK for it.

You ask for a report and you have a 1/9 chance that someone hits the report button.

I read this also and if you ask for a report you break the rules....then this is an offence that can be reported against whomever ask for the reports. If people don't like other players asking for reports, hit the botton and eventually they will learn, loss account, or start again and most likely loss another account. Sorry if you don't like my opinion!

Edit: quote mistake ;) fixed !

Great Muta1 votes

This is where your mistaking among other parts. If your 1st time report against you is Not legit, Riot does Not hold that against you....I'm talking about after reports against you where punishment or at least a warning was given.

Even if that report is bogus, it will trigger punishments. And if you had a bad game where you said something in the last few, it's enough justification to keep you punished.

Now, I'm not accusing you of anything, but this thread reads like a person is pissed and want to vent. Go for it, just don't expect everyone to agree with you..Good Day Sir.

You can check my history. I'm a longtime critic of the system. It's abusable, it has flaws and it's not reliable.

I read this also and if you ask for a report you break the rules....then this is an offence that can be reported against whomever ask for the reports.

This is correct, but it wouldn't invalidate the report you got. It would just go against the person who asked.

If people don't like other players asking for reports, hit the botton

Another problem. All mute's are lifted in post game chat.

nerak231 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X3cXebFJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-10-01T18:41:18.119+0000)

Even if that report is bogus, it will trigger punishments. And if you had a bad game where you said something in the last few, it's enough justification to keep you punished.

You can check my history. I'm a longtime critic of the system. It's abusable, it has flaws and it's not reliable.

This is correct, but it wouldn't invalidate the report you got. It would just go against the person who asked.

Another problem. All mute's are lifted in post game chat.

Well, slap my face and call me silly haha

You have managed to avoid every point I made, as you are allowed.

I'm not going to waist time with this...

Simply Put lurkers not everything you read on PB&M have valid arguments or even real ones. Mine or OP's included.

But, lets put it this way, a player who complains about things Riot gives for free should be looked at closely.

Here is the thing people Riot is going to keep going after people who don't play by the rules. It's simple!

Just read and consider OP's statement and ask yourself questions, do you believe people who already have been punished and try to make a statement against Riot or people who have never been punished who know the rules. (exclude me because even though I have never even had a warning in-game I am in this discussion) ---Consider this statement that the Original Poster of this thread said, and then think what motives other players have to influence opinions on this board!

No one knows when you get loot back if you get punished. I've played for months without getting any loot. If there's no end point for the punishment, there's little reason to work towards getting out of it

Great Muta1 votes

I've explained many times how it works: bogus/legit report > legit report > bogus/legit report. 1 and 3 can flag you, even if it was bogus and get you banned.

But, lets put it this way, a player who complains about things Riot gives for free should be looked at closely.

Riot has given me nothing on this account for free. They've given me shards. Shards are useless without Orange Essence. No Orange = No skin. Orange Essence > Shards.

I am the OP.

Jorencice2 votes

Shitty. Ive unlocked 2 ledgedary skins and 3 normal skins with my chests.

Also bogus reports dont affect you if you have done nothing wrong.

You could look at my last 5000 games and i wouldnt have a single game that was punishable so bogus reports against me are just that. Doesnt matter how deep riot digs.

Great Muta1 votes

Shitty. Ive unlocked 2 ledgedary skins and 3 normal skins with my chest

I've gotten the shard for 2 legendary skins, but they cost 1800 OE a piece. I would need about 12 additional skins that can enchant to 600 Orange Essence a piece to unlock them. I can unlock 1-2 chests per month, so obviously, that's going to take months, provided I don't want to keep any of the shards I get.

Also bogus reports dont affect you if you have done nothing wrong.

They absolutely do. Any report flags the game. Had a few bad previous games? That bogus report is all you need to get the ban. The system does not know. And once you put in your ticket for a manual review, they will look into an unknown amount of previous games and find the culprit to enforce the ban.

nerak231 votes

That's why I write here.

I'll read that when you tell me how long it took to write up hahaha

Kei1431 votes

Oh.

I vote manipulated.

I guess who cares about what you say.

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