Is saying we can't win considered toxic?

Cryptík·Mar 29, 2019·3 votes·4,280 views

If I say that "we can't win" and that i gave up after a while of the game and still played the game out and stopped talking after that (Mostly because I have a chat restriction but also because I didn't wanna make them angrier anyway), is that toxic? I didn't do anything except say that we couldn't win and that we should ff, and they didn't ff so I kept playing it out, did nothing wrong and in post-game chat i just gave the same argument but all of them said "saying you give up is toxic". So I want an opinion, is this toxic? Or are they overreacting?

23 Comments

Jo0oMar 29, 20193 votes

Not really. If you spam it or otherwise try to drag down your team, that’s when it becomes toxic. It’s perfectly fine and natural to occasionally get discouraged, just down make it everybody else’s problem.

King of ZionMar 29, 20193 votes

That's the thing.

If you are 4 manned the whole first 15 minutes of the game and your jungle/bot have lost the first 15 minutes, and you say, ONE TIME, "We are going to lose", or, "We can't win this," I myself do not consider this toxic behavior, especially if you are analyzing the current game and you understand what it takes to win.

I agree, it is not the best thing to say, but that's the WONDERFUL thing about LoL, you can't type an essay explaining why you think the team will lose the game, because then a multitude of things can happen - example you will be banned for spamming, etc, and your team will think you are spending more time typing than playing.

I have played this game since season 1. Do you know what I have found out? 9/10 games will have someone in it, who is doing lackluster and not their best, and will speak out about it. It's called being human.

What I think is a bigger problem, is when a neutral comment is made, and it is interpreted another way by another person of a different INTELLIGENCE level. And there it is, the elephant in the room, yes, intelligence, comprehension, critical thinking and problem solving. All go hand in hand when analyzing something and making an educated guess.

If my team was overwhelmed by the enemy team, and we were all in unanimous agreement that the other team obviously was more coordinated, and accepted that we may not win, is that not MORE constructive than arguing with the person having a bad game and making things worse?

Just some thoughts from a long time LoL player.

dnsupMar 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=King of Zion,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=V9lEO0uq,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-03-29T21:51:59.048+0000)

That's the thing.

What I think is a bigger problem, is when a neutral comment is made, and it is interpreted another way by another person of a different INTELLIGENCE level. And there it is, the elephant in the room, yes, intelligence, comprehension, critical thinking and problem solving. All go hand in hand when analyzing something and making an educated guess.

I wouldn't probably use the words "intelligence level" to label what you're talking about. A person can be plenty intelligent and simply lack experience with the game. Such a person might not recognise a losing situation - particularly one where predictability or other factors prevent you from "enjoying the loss". (I emphasize you because the inexperienced person of average intelligence might still enjoy it, at least until they learn to recognize it).

But obviously, yes, evaluating the circumstances is a kind of problem-solving activity. As for recognizing that a /ff vote isn't negative, and as for recognizing that statements of expectation aren't negative - that's down to context, individual factors, and, well, something like "herd mentality". And none of those correlate reliably and neatly with intelligence in a general way.

So probably certain problem-solving skills and cognitive abilities/capacities are involved, but clearly experience and maturity have roles to play.

OTOH I don't know how many times I've seen someone actually try to label a teammate "coward" just because that teammate voted for surrender. Like, come on, guys: it's a computer game - there's no bravery or cowardice involved. It's a children's computer game. Just a computer game.

SukishooMar 29, 20193 votes

It's negative, but not really toxic. If you were to just stand around spamming it then it could probably be considered toxic.

ModPrandineMar 29, 20192 votes

By itself and so long as it's not being spammed every few seconds/minutes I wouldn't necessarily consider that toxic. It's defeatist behavior sure, but again by itself and so long as it's not being spammed every few seconds/minutes is not something I would consider punish worthy.

MirgataMar 29, 20192 votes

I sometimes get motivated from a teammate saying it. I take it as a challenge

Telephone BoothMar 29, 20192 votes

No, its not toxic by itself. Arguements around it and how you respond might get toxic very quickly.

dnsupMar 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=V9lEO0uq,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-03-29T21:51:40.882+0000)

No, its not toxic by itself. Arguements around it and how you respond might get toxic very quickly.

This is a good answer.

VreivaiMar 29, 20192 votes

The IFS does appear to punish for consistently negative attitude, so if you do it often you may get chat restricted.

Arcade LuluMar 29, 20191 votes

Technically yes, it's toxic. 'cause you gave up

HotarµMar 29, 20191 votes

Yeah, I think most people would consider that toxic behavior. It shows that you're giving up and aren't trying your hardest which is never acceptable.

Honestly, saying it and doing it are two different things. If you're trying but saying something like "I don't know if we can win this" then it's probably fine. You're not going to get punished for that. Just stay positive and focus on the game.

dnsupMar 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I think most people would consider that toxic behavior. It shows that you're giving up and aren't trying your hardest which is never acceptable.

I strongly disagree. It doesn't show that you're giving up, it shows that you're thinking about your team's chances of winning.

doroelioApr 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I think most people would consider that toxic behavior. It shows that you're giving up and aren't trying your hardest which is never acceptable.

Honestly, saying it and doing it are two different things. If you're trying but saying something like "I don't know if we can win this" then it's probably fine. You're not going to get punished for that. Just stay positive and focus on the game.

I agree, it is not the best thing to say, but that's the WONDERFUL thing about LoL, you can't type an essay explaining why you think the team will lose the game, because then a multitude of things can happen - example you will be banned for spamming, etc, and your team will think you are spending more time typing than playing.

quoting from another user

1 "most people" aren't equal to the right thing 2 giving up doesn't mean to be negative (when the situation is objectively over any possibility, or just over your lvl of commitment, aka games of 60 and more minutes) 3 try your hardest, doesn't mean that will be actually working, some people with kda of 0 12 0 (not inting, just rookies) keep trying hard, not understanding that it's not rewarding to anyone except the opponent team 4 "i don't know if we can win this" as quoted above you don't have time to write and essay when the opponent team it's probably hoarding taking tons of kills and objectives

Point 2 If the majority of the team prefer to try, you keep trying If the majority of the team prefer to ff, but you want to still try, you try till the ff vote prevail for the system If some one go afk because the other doesn't want to ff, should be reported

Saying what ever message in chat, that it's not harassing some one and it's not spammed shouldn't be considered toxic Nowadays "toxic" is used for everything as an easy way to demonize what ever attitude you don't like

Point 1 "It shows that you're giving up and aren't trying your hardest which is never acceptable." So using ff command should be reportable if the other teammates doesn't agree?

I wonder how did you got that "specialist" near your nick How did you get that "specialist"? Number of post written? Activity in the forum? Merit?

HotarµApr 2, 20191 votes

I could have worded my response a lot better. What I mean by "most would consider that toxic" is that constantly (keyword being constantly) saying things like:

"Hey, we can't win this." "No point in trying, just give up." or "It's over FF @ 15"

over the course of the game is something most players would consider unhelpful and negative. Saying something like "I don't think we can win this" isn't terrible on it's own, but I do think it's a slippery slope and not something someone should do more than once per game.

Like I said though, my original response was worded really poorly lol. I'm not afraid to admit that, I didn't bother to explain myself well enough and that's probably why I got negative feedback.

Nowadays "toxic" is used for everything as an easy way to demonize what ever attitude you don't like

People who throw the word 'toxic' around like that aren't helpful. That's not how I use the word.

I wonder how did you got that "specialist" near your nick How did you get that "specialist"? Number of post written? Activity in the forum? Merit?

Pretty much a combination of all three. I post and respond to a lot + I usually get pretty good reception on them.

doroelioApr 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I could have worded my response a lot better. What I mean by "most would consider that toxic" is that constantly (keyword being constantly) saying things like:

"Hey, we can't win this." "No point in trying, just give up." or "It's over FF @ 15"

over the course of the game is something most players would consider unhelpful and negative. Saying something like "I don't think we can win this" isn't terrible on it's own, but I do think it's a slippery slope and not something someone should do more than once per game.

Like I said though, my original response was worded really poorly lol. I'm not afraid to admit that, I didn't bother to explain myself well enough and that's probably why I got negative feedback.

People who throw the word 'toxic' around like that aren't helpful. That's not how I use the word.

Pretty much a combination of all three. I post and respond to a lot + I usually get pretty good reception on them.

"Nowadays toxic" wasn't referred to you, just a common trend in LoL, too common and annoying. Misuse is one of the base of chaos and disorder

What ever message is repeated should be taken as spam

What ever message has harassing purpose should be taken as what ever Rito categorize it

We need more solid content and less amount of gibberish (talking generically). It's true that a forum it's an open place for opinions (and dialogue) but i have the feelings that comparing it to other forums this is more a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_PWm2zgbg]

yup...

Kei143Mar 29, 20191 votes

People have been punished for being consistently negative.

GatekeeperTDSMar 29, 20191 votes

Eh, in this case I wouldn't use the word toxic, but it sure is negative. The point of the game, which is backed by the rules, is to continue to try until a Nexus explodes or you surrender. Saying "we can't win" isn't helpful...and it's subjective, meaning it's an opinion.

Zdiddy513Mar 29, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Eh, in this case I wouldn't use the word toxic, but it sure is negative. The point of the game, which is backed by the rules, is to continue to try until a Nexus explodes or you surrender. Saying "we can't win" isn't helpful...and it's subjective, meaning it's an opinion.

Isnt voting to surrender the same thing as saying we cant win?

GatekeeperTDSMar 29, 20191 votes

No, because that command is readily available and a feature provided by Riot.

Ahri BakaMar 29, 20191 votes

It's Negative, and negativity is toxicity

But I don't think they ban people for it

SirHouseMar 30, 20191 votes

I don't find it helpful at all and very negative. More times than not -in my experience - when a player says this - they check out mentally and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.