Boards›Player Behavior

Fascinating. Blizzard appears to be taking a different approach....

Troll Armada··6 votes·1,169 views

...to Overwatch.

  1. Banning Cheaters Almost Immediately

  2. Naming and Shaming (a time tested and proven system of community driven behavior modification)

  3. ...and three not taking the attitude that there will always be cheaters, so there is no point in trying to eliminate them all. This way, their organization is set up to strive for a goal, even if it is unreachable, rather than just throwing up your hands and just expecting that cheating can never be eliminated.

"Judging by aggrieved posts on the forums of popular hack providers, Overwatch is proving difficult to fool."

http://www.pcgamer.com/overwatch-cheaters-are-having-a-hard-time/

http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/5edjLC3JGJT5aR8Qb5KFQo-650-80.png

"Bought the game again... didn't hack on it at all, just wanted to enjoy the game a bit. Two days later—banned again.

"Bought the game... again. But before doing that, I deleted Overwatch and launcher completely. Enjoyed it again without cheating only for a day."

On his fourth attempt, he purged his PC, changing hard drive IDs, MAC address, BiosDate and buying a VPN to throw Blizzard's anticheat off. It didn't work.

additionally, peopel banned on the pc version, get banned on their PS4 and/or XboxOne as well.

some day, perhaps in the not too distant future, perhaps Riot will adopt this type of disruptive anti-cheat philosophy. ... who knows. for now, i think it's just too new and unproven so it scares people at Riot who don't like change.

24 Comments

TrulyBland4 votes

Don't see the difference.

Your first point seems fairly wrong. The way this looks it's a banwave. Just the same way Riot does it. Blizzard just also seems to identify other accounts by the same people and bans those, too. That part, however, depending on how it's done, might really net a lot of false positives. And that isn't even a matter of anti-cheat philosophy. This is an elementary philosophy regarding punishments. A virtually irreversible punishment shouldn't have false positives.

Your second point seems irrelevant, seeing as how people getting banned is probably a bit more of a punishment than getting their account names published. In case you were trying to refer to the rule against naming and shaming on the boards, that's for "normal" people. Riot has done it in the past (see Tyler, for a recent example). There's a difference between somebody official declaring somebody to have broken rules, and just a regular person on the internet.

And your third point... well, let's just say I'd like to see some source for the attitude you attribute to Riot there. They've banned cheaters in the past and they continue to do so. In fact there are still threads from their last ban wave of people complaining about having been banned for cheating.

If you want to compare two companies philosophy, you probably should look at both companies philosophies, instead of just looking at one and implying the other's is not only different, but inferior.

Troll Armada1 votes

A virtually irreversible punishment shouldn't have false positives.

It's your opinion that there are lots of false positives, so I think it's fair to ignore your criticism as well, based on the fact that it's based on no facts.

Your second point seems irrelevant, seeing as how people getting banned is probably a bit more of a punishment than getting their account names published.

most people fear being caught and shamed for doing something illegal or unethical, not everyone, but most. deterrence is proven. I think shaming is an important part, but definitely not a hard requirement.

Riot's philosophy is the complete opposite of this.

It has operated under two false premises for too long.

  1. hear no. see no evil

  2. no "witch hunts" ...but really we are talking about no naming ad shaming.

I can't be 100% certain as to Riot's actual behaviors, all I have is my own experiences, and those of others. I would say that there is a view that while Riot has focused on in game toxicity as a panacea, which is the root cause of all other problems, they ignored the actual root cause(s) which caused toxicity to be so high to begin with.

Perhaps this is true and perhaps it is not. Many anti-social behaviors continue unabated, and while riot talks a lot about balance and artistic element. Lots of obvious bought accounts in bronze elo, employing child like logic and trolling, which is apparently enough to 'fool' riot into thinking summoner had 'bad game'

things like running from one side of the map to the other side of the map for no reaosn, or juust leaving a turret to an approaching minion wave, just the most obvious of crap people have to deal with every day.

the only response I've seen, is something like "Riot responds to concerns about queue times experienced by high elo players"

like wtf? basically stuff like that is just spitting in the face of your player base.

TrulyBland1 votes

There's no way to with 100% certainty link two accounts with the same person. So yes, there will be false positives. How many, I can't judge.

If people have their names publicalyl shamed, but they're banned on those accounts, there's not really any fear of being shamed here. That's like being publically shamed for having a fake ID... with the name that is on the fake ID they took from you.

How has Riot operated under "hear no see no evil"? Please elaborate, because as I said, there are still active threads of people complaining about being punished for 3rd party programs. So obviously Riot does punish cheaters.

And how is Blizzard pro naming and shaming DONE BY PLAYERS. Please provide any sort of proof to me, that Blizzard condones PLAYERS naming and shaming other players on the forums. Publically. Without any other player having any possible way of determining whether these allegations are even true.

I'll ignore the rest of your post, because it's touching an entirely different subject. Detecting stuff like trolling is a tiny bit more complicated than detecting hacks.

Edit: Regarding naming and shaming:

Harassing or Defamatory

This category includes both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which: -Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people -Result in ongoing harassment to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will: -Be given a temporary ban from the forums, depending upon severity Harassment takes many forms, and is not necessarily limited to the type of language used, but the intent. Repeatedly targeting a specific player with harassment can lead to more severe action. The idea behind this is to prevent any one player from consistently being uncomfortable in the forums.

"Defamatory" Sounds to me like naming and shaming isn't allowed on Blizzard's Forums either. And a quick google proves me right, seeing as there are quite a few discussions about how naming and shaming isn't allowed.

Troll Armada1 votes

How has Riot operated under "hear no see no evil"? Please elaborate, because as I said, there are still active threads of people complaining about being punished for 3rd party programs. So obviously Riot does punish cheaters.

I read a lot of comments here which fail to understand what is actually transpiring.

Why? Most forums which Riot controls directly or indirectly (reddit) have a policy where talk of various cheats, programs, and hacks is not allowed, because, the theory (and this is only a theory, because there are no hard facts to support their claims) is that talking about cheating and cheat programs, increased their popularity, usage, and gives them free advertising.

I've also read that Riot hired some of these people in the past.

so what you end up seeing is, a growing problem, and many ignorant (not their faults) comments complaining about things as they see them occurring.

i'm sorry but you got to start calling a spade a spade.

as for the naming and shaming, you're partially right, they only published the account names

http://bbs.ow.blizzard.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=523366&extra=page%3D1

which is unfortunate. I would like to see the actual names.

TrulyBland2 votes

Really? You can't talk about cheats, programs and hacks...

Damnit, yeah Blizzard definitely handles this better than Riot.

Psyche.

Posting Cheats, Hacks, Trojan Horses or Malicious Programs

This category includes:Posting links to cheats, hacks, or malicious viruses / programs -If you would like to report information regarding cheats or hacks to Blizzard, send it to [email protected]. Do not post it to the forums. If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will:Be permanently banned from the forums

Man... it's almost as if what Riot does isn't fundamentally different from what Blizzard (and for that matter 99% of other companies) is doing. That is, btw, also the same with the practice of hiring hackers. That's not even only a thing in the video game industry, but generally. Just yesterday I walked by a giant poster in the subway about a company actively looking for hackers for employment. Hackers know how hackers think, and thus are the best at securing companies.

You may be calling a spade a spade, sure. But you're also calling another spade a hippopotamus. And that's not fair.

And I'm not partially right about the naming an shaming thing. I am right. Riot and Blizzard have 100% identical policies regarding naming and shaming. The issue here is that you are ignoring the actual way that policy is meant.

Troll Armada1 votes

welp, i was wrong on this partucular aspect. then both are stupid in this regard.

the policy is a ridiculous attempt to leep the player base ignorant. If you are linking to cheat, which you have actively sought out as a company and taken measures to correct, you should have no worries about people discussing it or posting evidence of it.

TrulyBland1 votes

Yes, because we all know that once you know of a cheat it's a matter of seconds to fix it. Increased popularity of that cheat surely will in no way affect anybody.

Seriously, why do you need to discuss it or post evidence of it?

Troll Armada1 votes

Because otherwise, nobody will believer you.

I've had, at least three so far, occasions, where I finally identified some pattern, after hundreds of games, and then went 'exploring' and ended up confirming what I suspected.

That was good mentally for me, because it validated a hypothesis I had long suspected., but what about all the other people who post, and get ridiculed with stupid one liners by those very same cheaters.

don't worry, I've given up caring about it as much as possible... obviously, it's like living next to a garbage dump.

If you live there long enough I'm sure you get used to the smell, but if you leave and come back, the smell is gonna hit you in face again, and you're going to realize all over again that there is a garbage dump right next to you.

TrulyBland1 votes

Who won't believe you? The people on the forums where you shouldn't be discussing cheats in the first place? I still don't see any good reason to talk about specific ways to cheat.

If you want to deal with a situation regarding cheating players (as opposed to just whine about it on the forums) you can write a support ticket to Riot containing all the evidence you want.

Troll Armada1 votes

Here is what one such cheater wrote in a forum:

" I used to work directly in fraud & detections at Blizz. Not only do they lurk sites like this but they actively participate so they can gain cred. "

Is Riot doing this? Do they teams working on infiltrating cheat sites?

I don't know.

i mentioned this a while back and was ridiculed and down-voted as if I had just said something so strange and bizarre.

TrulyBland1 votes

I don't know for sure... what I do know is back when drop hacking was so heavily discussed, including how easy it was to find, a red came in and just straight up said that 99% of those things you find so easily are not hacks but keyloggers, and that they know because they try that stuff, too.

So they are definitely actively searching for hacks and cheats. I don't know for sure, whether they're big on "infiltrating" cheat sites, but I'm certain they're lurking on a lot of sites.

Troll Armada1 votes

you can write a support ticket to Riot containing all the evidence you want.

the problem here is that I could be wrong. I don't have a complete picture of what's happening. RIOT DOES.

I don't want a particular summoner banned, I want the method of cheating exposed and banned across the board.

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Armada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UdbjdHJf,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-07T05:04:24.505+0000)

the problem here is that I could be wrong. I don't have a complete picture of what's happening. RIOT DOES.

I don't want a particular summoner banned, I want the method of cheating exposed and banned across the board.

collect the evidence, keep submitting it. keep pushing it. You see something that you find at error rip it apart build it again, make it better. Don't stop trying to make riot a better place As far as being undefined they're taking liberities to the ban hammers by not stating whats bannable people are more cautious Botting= ban toxicity=? certain words trigger this but not every word

Anyways keep at it, build your case. and keep submitting it. mail them 5 boxxes of it if needed

TrulyBland1 votes

But why could you possibly want it exposed before it's fixed? If people write about that hack to reduce cooldowns now, Riot doesn't really have that much of a problem with it. It's when a cheat is still posible and it's when Riot doesn't yet know perfectly how to detect all the abuse when they're deleting threads.

And when you actually show enough evidence to get somebody banned for cheating, you can also be sure that this case will be forwarded to the appropriate department that tries to deal with cheats. Why are you assuming Riot isn't collecting this kind of evidence just the same way as you are doing it?

Bettnachleger2 votes

Blizzard is there for like 25 years ... (I remember playing battle chess all day long myself back in the days) They developed a lot of competitive games, they have experience. Riot Games does not. Give them time, they will catch up ... sometime.

EvilDustMan1 votes

Rammus

Troll Armada1 votes

oh? you disagree. I imagine it would create quite the drama across much of china amd south korea.

imagine hundreds of thousands of accounts going + poof! +

all at once.

Troll Armada1 votes

ha ha! let the negging begin!

All you cheaters who happened to get banned here and then threatened to go to Overwatch.

LMAO!!!!

They are even better than Riot at rooting you sick twisted folks out of the game,

centuriation551 votes

[{quoted}](name=Troll Armada,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UdbjdHJf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-07T03:20:22.846+0000)

ha ha! let the negging begin!

All you cheaters who happened to get banned here and then threatened to go to Overwatch.

LMAO!!!!

They are even better than Riot at rooting you sick twisted folks out of the game,

The difference is blizzard is EXPLICIT on what is bannable and what isnt. Riot just says "being toxic" with ZERO fucking definition. Its the difference between a big boy grown up game, and a game with zero direction, minimum wage earning losers that have zero business sense.

Troll Armada1 votes

oh yeah, that part I partially agree with. I got chat restrict i felt was unjustified and due to in game harassment. (I've had it reported to me, that random individual on my friends list had chatted them up during game and asked that they throw match in past)

even though I know that I have never maliciously used a racist, homophobic or sexist slur... but I digress.

the solution was, I've dissociated from the league community on a mental level I now view everyone as a potential chat sniper and enemy.

Cpt Jack Bird1 votes

Well, for one, battle.net accounts are linked to a few more things (well, other games as well) than League accounts.

For two, Blizz's anti-cheat actually has a history of being pretty good as software.

They're probably just willing to ban more cross-account based on similar data. Riot doesn't care if you hack and then have another account on the same email, and blizzard's policy seems to go right into any further accounts they think are you.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Much easier for Blizzard because it isn't a free game.

Bloodmorne1 votes

good company multiple games huge player base= blizzard. Bad marketing, bad system, bad community, bad support team, bad at handling objectives, one game= riot. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by Troll Armada

He made our whole team stop fighting :'(
Player Behavior79 comments
235
votes
PSA: You bought a pre-leveled account.
Player Behavior137 comments
106
votes
[srsly] New Ten Ban System... Kinda Brilliant Actually.
Gameplay35 comments
38
votes
Is it wise to alienate your highest grossing champion skin market?
Story, Art, & Sound7 comments
12
votes
WTF RIOT??? RE: NEW COTTONTAIL TEEMO ARTWORK
Story, Art, & Sound30 comments
11
votes
Thank You Riot For Cleansing League...
Player Behavior13 comments
10
votes