why is sexism not in the 0 tolerance categorie?

Arammus·Apr 12, 2018·42 votes·15,933 views

just played a couple of games with a friend of mine, her name is jennifer and thats also in her summoners name. every time she has a bad game EVERY TIME there is at least 1 dude on the team going "show tits or pussy or stfu and get back into the kitchen"

why is this not an insta 14 day ban? racism is and sexism is in the same report categorie. hatespeech. so why is it not a 14day ban? she doesnt mind she laughs about it and so do i, but i wonder why its "tolerated"

70 Comments

Real Sexy YoonaApr 13, 201823 votes

First of all, my sincere sympathies for your friend Jennifer. Here is my answer to your question:

Systematically, sexism might be a lot harder to detect due to it's broader usage in context to any conversation. In the other hand, the category of what's acceptable while using Racist terms is very narrow or non-existent. In fact, saying racist things (especially the N word) might be one of the fastest way to get banned or suspended in League.

Socially, it's quite the phenomenon. People get so mad over someone saying the N word in public, regardless of it's context. (ex. fortnite streamer Ninja accidentally saying the N word while rapping) Yet, nobody seems to hold anything against the music industry that uses the word Bitch casually. Society has somehow accepted the word Bitch to be okay even though it's a derogatory term directed towards females. I'm in no way undermining the severity of saying the N word, however I am hinting towards a questionable mindset that gets worked up over the N word while being completely fine saying bitch or other words that objectify and dehumanize females.

I guess it all boils down to words lacking intrinsic value. Like how the word "purple" means nothing to a person born blind. Humans give meaning and value to words. And somehow we as humans tolerate the vulgar words of sexism more than the vulgar words of racism. [sg-janna]

Brain Errör 404Apr 13, 20181 votes

I find the N word even more hilarious. It's fine for black people to degrade each other, but everyone has a problem with it when someone of a different ethnicity says it? Lmao. As a black guy, the controversy around the N word is actually retarded.

AspynnApr 13, 20182 votes

On the topic of sensitivity towards offensive words and stuff tho, did you really have to say "retarded?"

princeblumpkinApr 13, 20181 votes

I'm glad he did because that's another word that has unjustified hysteria around it, but exponentially moreso.

AspynnApr 13, 20181 votes

Not sure I'd say unjustified. I've lived and worked with people with special needs all my life. My brother had special needs but he passed away a few years ago. When a word that was originally used like scientifically is taken away from you and used as an insult for you and for people that are just acting stupid, it's incredibly hurtful. It doesn't matter if it's "are you retarded," or "are you special," referring to someone as a person with special needs when what you really mean to do is to call them a giant fucking idiot moron is like... Not great.

princeblumpkinApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not sure I'd say unjustified. I've lived and worked with people with special needs all my life. My brother had special needs but he passed away a few years ago. When a word that was originally used like scientifically is taken away from you and used as an insult for you and for people that are just acting stupid, it's incredibly hurtful.

Why is it hurtful? It has absolutely nothing to do with you. We all know what the new definition means. Even my autistic younger brother knows what it means to call something, or someone, retarded.

SephAgroApr 13, 20181 votes

what? dude just ban sexism

Soulstealer NamiApr 12, 20188 votes

Yeah, I agree 100%. Was playing Nami the other day and took exhaust because it's the summoner I prefer to take when playing support even though I like to play aggressively (and despite this account's name I'm actually a Taliyah/ADC main xdd). The enemy Kai'sa immediately asked if I was a girl because I took the less offensive summoner spell and implied a lot of really sexist things. He proceeded to say some other offensive shit in all chat. I wasn't really bothered too much by it, but even a male friend i was queued with thought it was really uncalled for. Just reported him after the game, doubt much came of it though tbh. Would love some sort of assurance that this kind of stuff is actually properly punished. Just as bad if not worse than racism imho.

IfnethApr 13, 20183 votes

Wow. That's... disgusting. I hope they got banned.

(Also, you main Taliyah and ADC? Me too!)

Sp33d Zer0Apr 12, 20186 votes

It is.

iii. Harassing, stalking or threatening other players while using the Riot Services;

Warlord ScrapApr 12, 20185 votes

how do you stalk someone throught league of legends that makes me generally curious.

Thee Pie ManApr 13, 20181 votes

Create alts, friend them, using IP services to get locations, finding out where they live, etc. It's not impossible.. unfortunately. But it's hard to get exact addresses and stuff.

CrazFight Apr 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UUxWgENP,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T04:22:27.389+0000)

Create alts, friend them, using IP services to get locations, finding out where they live, etc. It's not impossible.. unfortunately. But it's hard to get exact addresses and stuff.

Wouldn't that be irl stalking, not league stalking?

CrazFight Apr 12, 20186 votes

But like, it is. ?

ArammusApr 12, 20185 votes

i cant say that it is. never got a feedback about it (i know the chances for getting it is low) and when checking these peoples history like 1-2 hours later, they were still playing.

CrazFight Apr 12, 201812 votes

{quoted}

i cant say that it is. never got a feedback about it (i know the chances for getting it is low) and when checking these peoples history like 1-2 hours later, they were still playing.

Its alot harder to detect sexism than racism I would expect. Alot more trigger words for racism than sexism.

This Is Your DadApr 13, 20186 votes

I don't get why guys are sexist in the first place. As a guy, I think girls playing video games is awesome. I've made a couple of friends off of here that are female, and some of them are really cute. I have no idea why you'd ruin your chances with a girl by acting like a child. And no, I don't try to flirt with girls on here. They tend to flirt with me first, possibly because I treat them as equals. Man-hating, women-hating, we don't need that. I think Riot did well when they published that piece on real relationships that came out of league.

A Pretty UnicornApr 13, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UUxWgENP,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-04-13T01:27:29.009+0000)

I don't get why guys are sexist in the first place. As a guy, I think girls playing video games is awesome. I've made a couple of friends off of here that are female, and some of them are really cute. I have no idea why you'd ruin your chances with a girl by acting like a child. And no, I don't try to flirt with girls on here. They tend to flirt with me first, possibly because I treat them as equals. Man-hating, women-hating, we don't need that. I think Riot did well when they published that piece on real relationships that came out of league.

I mean, I'm a guy, but I met my boyfriend through this game and it's pretty great tbh.

IfnethApr 13, 20181 votes

Aw, good for you! :) If I might ask, how'd it happen?

A Pretty UnicornApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Aw, good for you! :) If I might ask, how'd it happen?

Long story, but the initial meeting actually happened because we both used to be active on ~~MOBAFail~~ MOBAFire (coming up on five years ago now lol).

IfnethApr 13, 20182 votes

Because sexist guys don't like girls. I know that's kinda obvious, but it means that they are in one of two groups. One avoids women and any significant relationship with them. The other seeks relationships--but only ones where they control and abuse the girl.

This Is Your DadApr 13, 20181 votes

I tended to hate people equally. It's a fault of mine, but I've been abused a lot so I expected people to be twisted and sick. But I've gotten better at letting my past experiences go. I do think our sense of morality has gone downhill in recent years with social media and pictures all over the net. We fall in love with an expectation, and image, and it never holds up to the reality. In fact I actually think it's a detriment because you miss a lot of chances to be with someone that seems mediocre, when in fact the reason they seem mediocre is because everyone else is lying about who they really are.

AnomanderApr 12, 20185 votes

First there are varying tiers to sexism.... Some should be 0 Tolerance. Saying that they are worthless etc because of sex would be 0 tolerance for me. Saying "Hey bb make me a samich" is really rude and toxic but should not be 0 tolerance.

So sexism while def a toxic behavior should be taken seriously but not necessarily 0 tolerance.

Also sexism works both ways. If your going to have 0 Tolerance for any sexism then you need to ban for shit like "grow a pair" and "show some balls" and "act like a man". Technically all of those are sex specific insults that would be 0 tolerance.......

zPOOPzApr 12, 20184 votes

put your pitchforks away

can you be punished for sexist harassment? Yes, you can. So why do you say it is "tolerated" if you will be punished for it?

Thee Pie ManApr 13, 20182 votes

Because of the people in this thread- tolerated by other players is just as bad as being tolerated by the system, if the people that report the behavior don't see how bad the behavior is. I'd argue that it's being tolerated- albeit unknowingly in some rare cases but tolerated nonetheless.

A Pretty UnicornApr 13, 20184 votes

The victim blaming in this thread is awful. No reason women shouldn't be able to use their names in their summoner names just like the rest of us.

TrulyBlandApr 12, 20183 votes

I'd like to point out that the 4-letter c-word, which is the only proper sexist slur that I can come up with on the spot, is actually included in the list of zero tolerance phrases as far as I'm aware.

And that's the thing: Racism isn't actually an instant 14-day ban. Slurs are, be they racist or otherwise discriminatory. I can't say I've tried, but I can't imagine it being difficult to make extremely racist statements without receiving an instant 14-day ban.

And even though that sucks, it's pretty obvious that anything beyond that will require manual reviews that simply are not feasible with a game this size.

BonnìeApr 13, 20183 votes

theres a real difference between sexual banter two sided, funny and straight up sexual harassment/sexism one sided and toxic.

and i cant say ive gotten feedback on sexual harassment/sexism being punished unfortunately.

RainfallApr 12, 20182 votes

because women who put their name in videogames usually ask for that kind of attention,she could always just change her name.

ArammusApr 12, 20187 votes

so if i put in my name that im from austria, do i ask for ppl to call me nazi?

RainfallApr 12, 20184 votes

well i have played a lot of games in league of legends and everytime i see a female support player people will say "classic" when she feeds or make back to the kitchen jokes,thats natural.Thats just friendly banter most times and if the female player wanted her gender concealed in game she could always just change her name.

CrazFight Apr 12, 20188 votes

{quoted}

well i have played a lot of games in league of legends and everytime i see a female support player people will say "classic" when she feeds or make back to the kitchen jokes,thats natural.

Not sure that makes it ok...

RainfallApr 12, 20183 votes

its just friendly banter most of the time,nothing that would fall under hatespeech to say the least.

Soulstealer NamiApr 12, 201811 votes

No, that isn't just friendly banter, its downright toxic. Calling someone racial slurs isn't considered "just friendly banter". This is on the same level.

AyzevApr 13, 20188 votes

It can be banter, but most of the time it will just be insults.

RAINBOW GUMDROPSApr 12, 201817 votes

{quoted}

because women who put their name in videogames usually ask for that kind of attention,she could always just change her name.

are you KIDDING me?

CrazFight Apr 12, 201820 votes

{quoted}

because women who put their name in videogames usually ask for that kind of attention,she could always just change her name.

Sounds like the argument "Women that are raped, shouldn't wearing revealing clothing, its there fault!" .

Its a horrible argument, stop using it.

Ahri desuApr 13, 20181 votes

[deleted]

CrazFight Apr 13, 20182 votes

Either a man walking towards her and flirting

I don't see anything wrong with flirting

Have some empathy for man

I don't have empathy for rapists

significant amount of crime decrease in the world.

Yes its working very well in the middle east

You have to have empathy for these weak hearted people.

Again no empathy for rapists....

Or even engage in a relationship that just ends in one night

Im all for one night stands, as long as both parties are consensual and its not rape

You have to be more humane

Im not the one that has "empathy" towards rapists.

I really hope your trolling, or a 10 year old kid that doesn't know what he is talking about. Otherwise you are most likely to far gone.

MordepoolApr 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

because women who put their name in videogames usually ask for that kind of attention,she could always just change her name.

^^^^They are right though

You never have to mention your gender since it's NEVER an issue in a online game with total anonymity.
No one cares. However If you divulge that information what can you expect from a demographic of teenage boys. Don't be dumb be anonymous

Thee Pie ManApr 13, 201810 votes

I disagree. A person should be able to use their name- a name shouldn't even have gender behind it in the first place, it should just be what we call other people by to get their attention and that's it. It's incredibly rude to assume things about a person because of their name, and equally so to judge someone for being any gender.

I'd be more than happy to use my name for Summoner's Rift but it was taken already. No one is divulging anything in this case, someone happens to have the name as Jennifer and they are getting shit on for having it in their name. It's uncalled for, and they definitely aren't asking for it in my opinion. =/

Imagine if it was a "guy's name", are you telling me said 'guy's' are asking for it too? O.o; the way these chats go is appalling quite frankly. The reason it's such a big issue is because no one would give a flying crap if it was a "guy's name", but someone cares because it's a "girl's name"? Come off it, it's complete sexism because of people being salty, and it is harassment.

Ah but what if it was an anime name! Then they are asking to be called weaboos right? OH but what if they called fruit salad?! Better call them dirty veggie-root eaters.

The line gets drawn by comparisons, all of the above including a woman's name being used to debate they are asking for it seems equally ridiculous to me as the above examples. They should all be protected within a right to have the name they choose when it doesn't harm anyone to have said names- people are making it a larger issue than it is, it should just be:

"Respect other players" That's the bottom line. Shouldn't even be having this discussion, honestly....

MordepoolApr 13, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UUxWgENP,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2018-04-13T00:22:22.844+0000)

I disagree. A person should be able to use their name- a name shouldn't even have gender behind it in the first place, it should just be what we call other people by to get their attention and that's it. It's incredibly rude

This isn't a perfect world and "anonymity" has enabling assholes as a major drawback. However you can Use it to protect yourself. The bad behaviour you receive isn't warranted and is therefore punished.

Imagine if it was a "guy's name", are you telling me said 'guy's' are asking for it too?

People call me Morde. Since that's who I play that's who I embody in the game. An Pain wracked Oldman.

Harrassment is harrassment I don't have to imagine anything. I get harrased all the time. Report and Move on. Simple.

O.o; the way these chats go is appalling quite frankly.

Are you confused that people can have a different opinion? Or just mad that they don't bend over backwards to placate you like in an echo chamber. You can't change the behaviour of every person on the planet sorry.

The line gets drawn by comparisons, all of the above including a woman's name being used to debate they are asking for it seems equally ridiculous to me as the above examples.

There is a harrassment policy in place but nothing is ever good enough for you and you need to press the issue. I 100% believe you don't. Report and Move on.

They should all be protected within a right to have the name they choose when it doesn't harm anyone to have said names- people are making it a larger issue than it is, it should just be:

"Respect other players" That's the bottom line. Shouldn't even be having this discussion, honestly....

I agree with words and actions.

However, You are expecting civility from the most obnoxious, ignorant and asinine demographic that is teenage boys. Plus the buffer of the internet to shield them from the consequences of thier behavior. It's a recipe for disaster.

I wouldn't stick my arm in a wood chipper because of the potential risk You should not share your name online because of the potential risk of identity fraud.

#Proactively protect yourself
Failing to do so is a risk you shouldn't take.

If you cannot see my point that's fine just stop whining

Thee Pie ManApr 13, 20184 votes

The world doesn't have to be perfect- but there's a standard of decency most should follow and it comes off as disregarding people's problems and opinions when you basically say they shouldn't expect better of people just because there's some rotten eggs being thrown in the basket of perfectly nice eggs. I get the idea of throwing them all out- or in this case protecting yourself against the problems that may happen if you do certain things, the option being to not indulge in eggs that could lead to rotten outcomes. But I'd compare it more to people putting rotten eggs in the basket when things are nice otherwise. These people are the problems, and not the people wanting to express themselves in a video game with a username.

You're shifting the blame from the attacker to the people as if they are provoking the reaction- when it's just as equally the choice of the attacker to attack in the first place- you might believe this proves your point. That they are on "Equal" ground, but there's a difference between those people that don't make them equal at all. The people with the usernames that are getting picked on for whatever reason are passive, they made a name they enjoyed to give them more immersion or etc doing something every other user has a right to do- create a name that they want to be known as. People are infringing on this right by saying that they shouldn't do these things or expect consequences.

When it comes to the appalling chats I meant how it gets carried on in game, there's no reason to be defensive. I stated an equally valid opinion to your own and respect your choices/thoughts on the matter. I just disagree with them.

I expect civility out of fellow human beings regardless of their age- if they are old enough to play this game then they are old enough to follow the rules and not act like a rude person, they signed a TOS stating that they'd follow the rules, I'm only expecting what anyone else should out of fellow players and don't see anything wrong with people feeling wronged by those that do this.

I agree that people should report and move on, but this issue still effects people regardless of how much we try to proactively fight it. This debate isn't about what you should do to prevent it, but if it is an issue, and we both know it is.- then we should not stand by while fellow players take this abuse from people that they will never see again- it's down right alienating.

Soraka RulesApr 12, 20182 votes

I got the instant feedback message recently and the only people I've reported are for sexism related things, so sexism is punishable. Such things I experienced- telling me call my pimp (when pinging needing x gold for y item), sexually explicit language (I'm only 16, pretty disturbing), and making me feel less of a person/player. I will go a whole game without talking and get hit by egirl/f*kboy remarks...

HaIlMonitorApr 12, 20181 votes

Is that because of sexism though or were they just seen as "toxic". I feel like with stuff like the sjw movement things like rascism and homosexual slurs are instantly punished, but female gamers are left in the dust.

Soraka RulesApr 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Is that because of sexism though or were they just seen as "toxic". I feel like with stuff like the sjw movement things like rascism and homosexual slurs are instantly punished, but female gamers are left in the dust.

Sexism=Toxic though. Fixation on ones gender is disturbing and to a certain point I'll call it toxic. Imagine being in public and experiencing the crap people say, it would not fly!

edit- Unless you're a friend, you need to treat strangers with respect. Honestly though, it seems many of the people who resort to sexism vs total strangers have some kind of social issues who do not understand how it is from our point of view. Then they try to add you after talking crap about pimping, making sandwiches, and other stuff [sg-lux-2]

HaIlMonitorApr 13, 20181 votes

I feel like we are on the same page....

Sexism=Toxic though

Fully agree, but the problem is the system seems to care more about random minorities then an ENTIRE SEX OF PEOPLE. I would have to assume your feedback was because of the toxic nature of the remarks, not the topic (sexism).

DunkmasterDennisApr 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

just played a couple of games with a friend of mine,

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=arammus

your match history seems to say otherwise

Ahri desuApr 13, 20181 votes

You can't be friends with a girl either. Either you marry her or just stay away from her. You can't just stay with her and waste her time or find ways to abuse her in a horrible relationship. Before you continue on with your "friendship" I advice for you to stay away from her unless she really needs the help.

Like... objectifying her is one thing man. Just because she is a girl, it doesn't mean you should friend her so that you can maybe brag about her to others. Or make yourselves seem like a "popular" kid who is surrounded by many ladies.

Would you be happy with a man fooling around your girl? Also how did other people know that a girl is playing? Don't you know how a man look at a woman? Woman can't just announce that she is a woman in an environment mostly incorporated of man. Of course, if a man has only seen a man around him, if a girl appears, many man will react. Some will try to come close to her(perhaps what you did but instead in real) and some will attack her not knowing what to do with her sudden appearance.

To think that a man will not react in any way when a woman barge into their lives suddenly when a game is mostly man is very sexist. Man likes what is beautiful. Woman is beautiful and many man desire to have a woman. So, in an environment when a beautiful woman is never seen and suddenly is seen, man will naturally look at her.

I have no clue what is so confusing about this to you. A man will react this way of course. Maybe not in the same way, but will show some reaction regardless. The same way you approached her in the first place and perhaps told her about this game so that you can come closer to her. Though, if you will marry her, then GO AHEAD. But if you aren't and just using her as your past time, then just leave. This is for you and the girl's good.

What the guy said was inappropriate but to have empathy even for these people is what makes people... people. You are very mean if you simply look at the world through your own perspective and ignore others. Thinking as though you are perhaps "perfect"... perhaps arrogance is in there somewhere? Woman should not make her appearance in a male dominant area. She has her place of dominance and so does man. Woman should not force herself into a male area except through necessity.

HalcyonDwellerApr 13, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri desu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UUxWgENP,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2018-04-13T03:58:10.198+0000)

You can't be friends with a girl either. Either you marry her or just stay away from her. You can't just stay with her and waste her time or find ways to abuse her in a horrible relationship. Before you continue on with your "friendship" I advice for you to stay away from her unless she really needs the help.

Like... objectifying her is one thing man. Just because she is a girl, it doesn't mean you should friend her so that you can maybe brag about her to others. Or make yourselves seem like a "popular" kid who is surrounded by many ladies.

Would you be happy with a man fooling around your girl? Also how did other people know that a girl is playing? Don't you know how a man look at a woman? Woman can't just announce that she is a woman in an environment mostly incorporated of man. Of course, if a man has only seen a man around him, if a girl appears, many man will react. Some will try to come close to her(perhaps what you did but instead in real) and some will attack her not knowing what to do with her sudden appearance.

To think that a man will not react in any way when a woman barge into their lives suddenly when a game is mostly man is very sexist. Man likes what is beautiful. Woman is beautiful and many man desire to have a woman. So, in an environment when a beautiful woman is never seen and suddenly is seen, man will naturally look at her.

I have no clue what is so confusing about this to you. A man will react this way of course. Maybe not in the same way, but will show some reaction regardless. The same way you approached her in the first place and perhaps told her about this game so that you can come closer to her. Though, if you will marry her, then GO AHEAD. But if you aren't and just using her as your past time, then just leave. This is for you and the girl's good.

What the guy said was inappropriate but to have empathy even for these people is what makes people... people. You are very mean if you simply look at the world through your own perspective and ignore others. Thinking as though you are perhaps "perfect"... perhaps arrogance is in there somewhere? Woman should not make her appearance in a male dominant area. She has her place of dominance and so does man. Woman should not force herself into a male area except through necessity.

Dude what in the hell does any of this have to do with the topic?

Edit: Wait are you actually defending people for telling a girl they don't know to "get in the kitchen" ? Wow.