In LoL you are subject to Riot's rules, as you are choosing to use their programs. You cannot sit there and say "well the constitution says I have free speech so I should be able to flame the f%%k out of others."
Godhri70 votesThe constitution applies to all things within the United States in the context of governmental power. Riot is not a governmental entity; therefore, in the context of gaming chat, the right to freedom of speech can be limited by Riot or removed completely.
It's a complex matter. The right itself was established to ensure that the people will always have a voice against the government. It does not necessarily apply to trivial matters such as chat within a game. In the impossible event that this does go to the courts, the judges will rule the same way. They would say that the context in which the freedom of speech applies does not encompass gaming chat.
warwiller6 votes[{quoted}](name=Paper Division,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UErqEwfL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-15T04:01:20.420+0000)
The constitution applies to all things within the United States in the context of governmental power. Riot is not a governmental entity; therefore, in the context of gaming chat, the right to freedom of speech can be limited by Riot or removed completely.
It's a complex matter. The right itself was established to ensure that the people will always have a voice against the government. It does not necessarily apply to trivial matters such as chat within a game. In the impossible event that this does go to the courts, the judges will rule the same way. They would say that the context in which the freedom of speech applies does not encompass gaming chat.
Thank you Mr President
Hyperiön6 votesBut you are agreeing to Ritos ToS. It is their game, their property, their rules.
TeCoolMage15 votesRiot's ToS doesn't give you free speech there.
RookPusher13 votesI think he's agreeing with the person he quoted. Not sure why he phrased it that way.
TeCoolMage10 votesYeah the 'but' makes it sound like a disagreement
High51 votesYes. However, the things that we believed were acceptable 2000 years ago or 200 years ago may not be true anymore.
While the constitution and bill of rights in the US only apply to public institutions, it doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge all beliefs in relation to both government and private organizations.
The US was built on a variety of different views and the discussions that lead to what we all agreed. Don't like something, speak up. I suggest hay you use $$ rather than words when it comes to businesses though.
jeanne mulaney2 votesTo be honest, if you want to fight restriction of freedom of speech don't go to League as an example of a place that needs fighting. Riot suspends and bans players for being openly toxic. Very few people would call the bans that get dished out "unfair" or "undeserved" considering most of them involve the banned calling other players terrible names and being generally mean for little to no reason. If a private entity wants to protect its community from being called the n word, homophobic slurs, and being told to kill themselves that's perfectly fine.
The only time I think this discussion is worth having is when we have something like Twitter or Facebook where people with unpopular political views and thoughts get suspended and banned simply for having them. That's when we start getting into murky territory about censorship and thought policing.
Hauling Ashe40 votesCorrect. The Constitution also protects the right to private enterprise. If I am in your home and tell you I hate Jews, I technically have a right to do that according to the Constitution, but you also have every right to forbid it on your property and kick my ass out.
Marshbouy2 votes^
Elikain9 votesYou have a right to say anything you want but you also bear the consequences of your actions. You're also not entitled to pick your own place and exercise your right of freedom of speech. If you choose to do it in the community that doesn't allow you to be racist, sexist or whatever, the authorities within that community have the right to exercise their rules and kick you out on your ass. It's completely within their rights to remove a person from their circle if they refuse to follow the rules of the said community.
Kensue31 votes[deleted]
Project omen9 votesFinally, the comment I was looking for.
Handy Sandy 17 voteslmao who tf uses the US constitution to defend themselves when accused of flaming
Blast Deadlift5 votesAmericans.
Marshbouy13 votesA lot of people. Of course they are only NA players, but most of them are absurdly conservative
NastyMcOutplay4 votesA lot of people. Of course they are only NA players, but most of them are absurdly conservative
most of leagues players are far left liberals
Dominick Destine1 votesmost of leagues players are far left liberals
This is why the draconian system , rather than being despised by the community, is adored.
Leftists love that kind of thing.
Morality Coach10 votesThe system asks that you have the same amount of self control as not going to jail for disorderly conduct in public.
If you can't follow it there is something wrong with you.
Dominick Destine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UErqEwfL,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T07:37:15.712+0000)
The system asks that you have the same amount of self control as not going to jail for disorderly conduct in public.
I'd like to know what part of the world "Jails" someone for calling someone else an idiot.
I use the term "Draconian system" here to avoid the sword of damocles (so to speak), but there is a proper term for what a draconian system would be in real life. Think about it.
Morality Coach9 votesIt's the long 50 line rants that get you jailed, not just idiot. You can say idiot for one line every match and never get banned I guarantee it. Everyone that talks trash to me I hit them with one line of pure toxic then mute them. As long as its short and sweet you won't get in trouble.
If you did one of those long rants in front of a cop in a restaurant, the cop told you to stop and you kept ranting. If that cop is having a bad night you're going to jail.
Dominick Destine6 votes[{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UErqEwfL,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T08:51:05.283+0000)
It's the long 50 line rants that get you jailed, not just idiot.
Clearly you have not reviewed enough cases to make that determination with confidence.
I have and I know that even low-to-moderate levels of toxicity will lead to suspensions, even bans.
You can say idiot for one line every match and never get banned I guarantee it
[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
Be sure to try that yourself, see how that works out for you.
Morality Coach5 votesAre you talking about reviewing old Tribunal cases? That was stupid everyone hit punish and didn't even read it, why they got rid of it.
You can creatively tell one guy to F off every game without using a bunch of common toxic language and you will be fine. You guys just rant and swear like apes with the same swears that always get reported.
HexaDecimel3 votesDon't feed the troll....
Awkward Couch2 votes[{quoted}](name=Morality Coach,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UErqEwfL,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T07:37:15.712+0000)
The system asks that you have the same amount of self control as not going to jail for disorderly conduct in public.
If you can't follow it there is something wrong with you.
I think going to jail is a bad comparison. I think something better is if you go to a restaurant and start calling the waiter a %%% for bringing you the wrong drink. More than likely, you'd be asked to leave. Though Dominick Destine does over exaggerate Riot's punishment system.
IcyPepper26 votesI don't think being conservative or liberal has anything to do with it.
They're just stupid. I've seen idiots across the entire left-right spectrum use that false logic in their defense to say stupid things.
AMYS GRAVE2 votesIts funny because the best defense they have for their opinion at that point is that its technically not illegal for them to express it.
duckarp4 votesYou'd be surprised, but people outside US try to use that argument as well. It's always hilarious.
KVbqbFsC8e2 votesYeah, I don't know if I've ever actually seen anyone in League use that argument before. Its an odd thread.
DarkRitual7 votesFreedom of Speech only protects a US citizens from being censored by the US government.
Borbland6 votesYou know what they say: "Your own freedom stops where the other person's one starts"
If you start flaming on someone, its not free speech, it is harming the other person.
Big Lincoln6 votesso you mean I can't form a militia and overthrow Riot?
TeCoolMage5 votesif you do that you'll get banned by Trump Games from League of America
All Day Tay Tay5 votesHad a guy being extremely toxic, so when i said i was reporting him, he said in all chat "this guy thinks hes being a SJW".
TheEvilQueen1354 votesI have seen this defense a lot on the boards and find it nuts. You are allowed to say what you want but you are not immune to punishment, just like anywhere in life. If you tell you parents to go to hell and such when you're a teenager you get grounded, when you tell your boss they're a f-ing moron and a bth you'll get fired. When you verbally assault or bully someone while in school you can get suspended or even expelled. You can say all of those things but there are consequences. people don't understand that because this is a game those consequences are not suspended.
bad arcade kitty3 votesyou are wrong, it applies since riot abides the laws of its home country (and other countries where it has its services, it even invents specific laws against itself to discriminate people for fun and profit, like it refuses to sell rp to russians on non ru servers (unless those use vpn during the purchase; note, russian credit cards are ok for riot, it accepts them just fine as soon as you use a vpn to get an access to the purchase page, it's a pure mockery) due to some law which apparently affects only riot of all the companies in the world, clearly it is made to populate the ru server as a part of some profit sharing agreement)
so what i was talking about... riot abides the laws including your constitution. btw the terms of service barely mean more than an offer from riot where you have no responsibility whatsoever, it is not a contract between you and them
Bladeglory13 voteshttps://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png/?noredirect
Please peruse panel 1. Yes, Riot has to abide by the constitution, but not within the confines of the game. The 1st Amendment can in no way apply to Riot.
Also the ToS is literally a contract.
Please read the terms of this Agreement carefully. By clicking the “Accept” button below, or by using any of the Riot Services, you agree that this Agreement is enforceable like any written contract signed by you.
bad arcade kitty2 votesPlease peruse panel 1. Yes, Riot has to abide by the constitution, but not within the confines of the game. The 1st Amendment can in no way apply to Riot.
do you always need some silly comics to explain your idea?
you didn't even understand what this comic is supposed to be about
the constitution applies fully, but the free speech amendment doesn't forbid people to censor other people within their own territory/rights etc (like if i have a newspaper it's my right to decide whom i allow to write articles there), so the constitution is not applicable here. it doesn't mean that riot doesn't abide constitution because they typed some words in their tos
you still can complain about the spirit of censorship though...
Also the ToS is literally a contract.
no it is not
clicking a button isn't a signature because you personally can't be identified by it, the only thing which can be identified it's that the button was clicked and no idea by whom
it's an offer which you accepted on certain terms
and you can question those terms and the quality of service etc later, you have that right granted by consumer protection laws which don't care what riot wrote in their tos
Darkeus8 votesThis is literally a Know-nothing arguing against people that know about this WAY more than you. Stop, your posts are seriously embarrassing! We can tell you are not an American citizen. You are more misinformed than the average citizen is!!
swordofsun11 votesThe last time this topic came up I gave you some suggested reading topics. Please, go look into them. Your posts make me sad. I'm sorry your school so clearly failed you on such an important topic. Now is the time to educate yourself.
bad arcade kitty1 votesThe last time this topic came up I gave you some suggested reading topics. Please, go look into them. Your posts make me sad. I'm sorry your school so clearly failed you on such an important topic. Now is the time to educate yourself.
you think you can get away with blah blah blah arguing with me?
if you dislike something in my post you either do like i do it and so you tell exactly what you dislike, why and how it should be correct in your opinion or i will simply ignore you
p.s. your post is a poor attempt of the argument to authority btw, except you don't even have an authority
swordofsun7 votesI'm not sure what you mean, but as I've stated previously you don't have the most basic understanding of what the 1st Amendment is (or even why it's an amendment and not part of the original document).
It says right there "Congress shall make no law". Congress, not Riot Games. As a private company Riot Games has the right to make any rules telling you what you can and can't say. This is in fact something you agree to when you click accept on the TOS after every patch. The 1st Amendment protects against the government and ensures that the people will always have a voice. It was designed to be a check against the government not private industry.
I'm not even sure why I'm arguing this with you. You clearly have no desire to educate yourself on what your arguing.
Also, your EUW, so you're probably working under a completely different definition of Freedom of Speech. It's a legal definition with a long history in the courts here in the US. What country are you from?
bad arcade kitty1 votesI'm not sure what you mean, but as I've stated previously you don't have the most basic understanding of what the 1st Amendment is (or even why it's an amendment and not part of the original document).
It says right there "Congress shall make no law". Congress, not Riot Games. As a private company Riot Games has the right to make any rules telling you what you can and can't say. This is in fact something you agree to when you click accept on the TOS after every patch. The 1st Amendment protects against the government and ensures that the people will always have a voice. It was designed to be a check against the government not private industry.
I'm not even sure why I'm arguing this with you. You clearly have no desire to educate yourself on what your arguing.
Also, your EUW, so you're probably working under a completely different definition of Freedom of Speech. It's a legal definition with a long history in the courts here in the US. What country are you from?
have you even bothered to read what i said? not take it as an offense but you don't look very bright
i said basically that:
a) riot abides the laws and therefore abides the constitution and so the constitution "applies" to the league of legends, the op is objectively wrong
b) the constitution doesn't forbid private censorship and so riot can censor their game how they want, it doesn't violate the constitution
the second point it is what you repeated with your own words
now, i am pretty skeptical about all this censorship thingy, private and the government one too. if i were an american, the supereme court lifting the first amendment protection from "hate speech" i.e. tainting the constitution would feel as a shame to me, just saying, it is not related to the topic, but the modern "muh feelings are more important than the freedom" stuff is kind of disgusting to me
swordofsun11 votesSo, the issue appears to be this. You don't understand the following:
Because your right to say something doesn't trump my right to be safe.
And, I'm done.
bad arcade kitty1 votesSo, the issue appears to be this. You don't understand the following:
- There is more to the 1st Amendment than Freedom of Speech
- Freedom of Speech has a very specific legal definition in the US.
- Many, many, many, court cases have thoroughly established that Freedom of Speech is not protected when it causes other people harm. Examples of this are yelling "Fire!" in a movie theater or inciting violence against other people.
- You seem to misunderstand how hate speech is dealt with and when it comes into play. Very simplified: Someone can hold a rally for the KKK and march a parade down mainstreet. I can stand on the sidelines telling them they're a racist a-hole and protest. Neither of us can encourage, with our words or actions, violence.
Because your right to say something doesn't trump my right to be safe.
And, I'm done.
you just listed a bunch of random points without showing where i did all that (which i didn't btw)
try again
swordofsun3 votesI know I said I was done and this time I really am.
What I am trying to show you is that your entire argument is based an incorrect understanding of how the 1st Amendment and Freedom of Speech are protected legally.
They are a protection for the people from the government. (See: Congress shall make no law) Riot Games is not part of the US government. It doesn't even take money like public schools (the history of the 1st Amendment and public schools is fascinating ).
Freedom of Speech does not apply to Riot Games. It does not apply to the in-game chat. The premise of your argument is invalid.
DrCyanide7 votesriot abides the laws and therefore abides the constitution and so the constitution "applies" to the league of legends, the op is objectively wrong
The Constitution outlines how the US Government is to behave, there's nothing in it that states how people or businesses are too behave. It's as relevant to League of Legends as how long elected offices are held for.
the constitution doesn't forbid private censorship and so riot can censor their game how they want, it doesn't violate the constitution [...] the modern "muh feelings are more important than the freedom" stuff is kind of disgusting to me
For it to be a freedom being taken away it would have to be the US Government doing the censorship.
I would be well within my rights to kick someone out of my home for something they said at a party I was hosting. Riot's doing the same thing on the servers they host. There's no ground to stand on with this point.
bad arcade kitty1 votesThe Constitution outlines how the US Government is to behave, there's nothing in it that states how people or businesses are too behave. It's as relevant to League of Legends as how long elected offices are held for.
you are wrong here
constitution outlines the rights and responsibilities of the citizens (including the riot staff)
responsibilities there it's to abide the laws, to pay taxes etc
Darkeus5 votesMy lord you know nothing of American civics. Just stop man. You look BAD!! Nidalee Bad....
Muddafragot3 votesAnyone with sense in their heads knows well enough that idiots who use "Free speech man, I know my rights!" are just that. Idiots.
