Boards›Player Behavior

Is it really fair to dismiss a player's thoughts based on their rank? (Silver +)

ApathyAndGrief·3/11/2019, 3:53:18 PM·5 votes·3,738 views

Yeah, I get it. Silver elo isn't good. A lot of Elos aren't that good. I, myself, am a Silver player. I'm not that good. But, is it really fair to just dismiss an entire group of players thoughts and opinions because they're not as good as other players? Bronze and Iron, I get it. They haven't improved at the game enough to see their own mistakes to climb out of that elo (This elo is USUALLY where beginners start out, and if it's just someone struggling, they should seek help from someone in a higher elo) And those who do see past their mistakes, are on a very strong path to getting OUT of Bronze/Iron.

My point is, It's really insulting and a spit to the face to people who try their best to climb and manage an average rank in the community, only for their superiors to say "No, you're not allowed to say anything, you're low Elo." That really doesn't sound like you're being a superior, or someone for them to learn from. Instead, you look kind of like an asshole. And by the time they DO reach Gold+, they get a superiority complex and end up doing the same thing as the people who were often toxic to them, and talk down to people in Silver.

Yes, Rank DOES reflect how good you are at the game. I'm a firm believer EVERYONE has the right amount of skill to climb. Some need help to do so, there's no shame in that. But, talking down to them because they weren't as fortunate enough to have a higher skill at the game isn't fair nor will it make them try to get better. And even if they do, they're going to turn into an asshole as well because of how higher elo players treated them before.

21 Comments

AeroWaffle3/11/2019, 4:14:02 PM6 votes

There's actually a specific rule about that for the boards. Insulting or dismissing an argument just because it came from someone of a certain rank is frowned on (when the argument has nothing to do with rank).

For example: Let's say someone made a post about how OP they thought Teemo was and gave several reasons why they were over-powered (such as skill synergy in the current meta and so forth).

Countering their argument with, "You're silver 5, your opinion is worthless." is not okay (and a bad counter-argument). It's just attacking the legitimacy of their argument because of their rank.

Countering their argument with, "At lower elos he tends to curb stomp the competition since many teams at that tier have a hard time working together to stop Teemo which is his primary weakness." would be fine since you're making no mention of the OP's rank but instead using the properties of certain ranks to support a counter-argument.

Moody P3/11/2019, 4:16:20 PM5 votes

Yes.

That said, I attribute it more to the generally belligerent attitude that most Boards posters come with. I'm happy to engage in civil discussion or help somebody who's lower ranked understand something they need help with.

Unfortunately Boards is rarely used for that as much as it is for complaining about Yasuo. Most other high rank players I know who have posted here despise this place because of the lower ranked community's caustic attitude and have mostly left for Reddit or private Discords between each other.

BigBellBrute3/11/2019, 5:50:20 PM2 votes

No it is not. And it's a cheap way to argue and just says one really doesn't have a legit argument. It's nothing more than a thinly disguised ad-hominem.

Just because someone has the reaction times of a sloth and ends up in Iron league because of it doesn't mean they don't know what a good 1-3-1 looks like or that Aphromoo's threat assessment cost his team dearly this weekend.

Just because someone is Silver because they don't want to grind and grind and grind and practice their mechanics and want to play with friends who won't get out of silver either doesn't mean they don't know that the reason someone is hard stuck in Platinum is stuck there because they're not good enough to get out.

Just because someone is bronze doesn't mean he can't know that when ADC players ask for counter play to every other class in the game that what they're really asking for is for marksman to be OP.

hshtagniemehrcdu3/11/2019, 4:38:19 PM2 votes

If someone wants to dismiss someone's argument/thoughts, how about they just find good counterarguments and thus render the first argument obsolete?

In my opinion, anyone using his rank as a club to win a discussion instead of arguments, they just show they they themselves aren't capable of having a discussion, and don't have the knowledge about the subject that's being discussed.

AIQ3/11/2019, 5:10:41 PM2 votes

Opinion of what? Balance? Game play? Skins? Macro?

As far as game play goes, mechanics etc. most players in all elos can "know" a combo or how something works. For instance, sometimes I think I know a Kayle mechanic and how it works, but a silver friend of mine taught me I was incorrect. So as far as that goes so long as your reasoning is accurate and sound rank is irrelevant.

Balance is a lot more tricky, while you might know what an ability does, most lower elos only consider aspects of balance that are in your face. Damage or defenses. For instance a really nice buff to Shyvana would be removing the decay on the W. While at first this seems meh, this significantly helps her get in and out of fights and stick to her targets better. This mostly helps the Shyvana and doesn't effect enemies that are play against her correctly too much. Most lower elo players would never utilize a mechanic (or even notice) like this. Should higher players discredit ALL ideas? No, but unfortunately unless they can back it up with a lot of sound reasoning, which is usually not the case. At least from what I see, most of the nerfs are requested due to personal experience against a bad match up.

Things like Macro again are probably better left to people of higher elo. If you have a Challenger telling you push top rotate Blue then ward and retreat to baron. Or a Diamond is telling you a jungle path. You should just do it no questions asked. Chances are they knows why you are doing that and the explanation would take too long. When I'm playing with some friends they just designate me shot caller due to being able to quickly and effectively show them how to move around the map. I have one friend that says she forgets what made that play so good and struggles to replicate the macro when away from me. Which just goes to show the point that these players need to gain this understanding before they start making calls.

Cosmetics and systemic changes that have no impact on game play are certainly fine for all elos.

Silly Neeko3/11/2019, 5:48:25 PM2 votes

In all honesty, it does not matter what rank you are.

If the information you are giving is good, then it does not matter what rank you are, it is good information.

Rank is often brought up only when someone of a higher rank is saying something they think to be true, and in a no effort.... no brain using way to discredit someone who contradicts them.

While there is a difference between how bronze and diamonds play, while reaction times and what champions are "op" etc are different between the various ranks..... information is information and tips are able to be used throughout the various ranks (to varying degrees).

Saevum3/11/2019, 8:41:50 PM1 votes

Rank and the understanding of mechanics/values should not be paired together. i.e. See one tricks on a champion or role. Some of them do understand their champion in a way others wouldn't. For example, i don't play Yasuo, but i know for a fact, when i see the pick rate, win rate and ban rate, that THAT is a problem champion design, and that has special item interactions. Another recent topic is Ezreal (well, again, ezreal, has been topic before so..).

One thing you need to engrave in your mind when you want to review or suggest on a Thread/Topic: it's that if it's not directly linked to your role or a champion that you main or play often, do not enter that Thread (Allow yourself to read it, but do not 'enter' the topic). For example, you won't see me on ADC's threads at all. Well, maybe on Quinn or Vayne or Lucian threads, not because i want to, but because i have to know follow up changes on those 3. Specially Quinn.

Boltonator3/11/2019, 4:02:00 PM1 votes

I’ve discovered that, since I don’t play ranked at all, my opinion is taken with a grain of salt on the gameplay and balance boards. I have no problem with that, as I don’t have an experienced, first-hand account of what competitive play is like and the atomosphere that surrounds it. I will still occasionally post my thoughts on gameplay, but only if it’s regarding a champion I am intimately familiar with ((such as many of the Support champions.))

Most of the time I keep to the Player Behavior boards, since I know my opinion carries more weight there than, say, a thread about how Top lane works or what a jungler is supposed to do.

TLDR- to answer your question, no. That is not to say that other players don’t have a right to dismiss the opinions of lower elo or unranked players, particularly if they’re in, say, D4 or higher. It can be seen as being a dick but, if they reached that high of an elo, who am I to argue their skill? ((Trolls being the exception))

[sg-lulu]

His Bonnie3/11/2019, 9:14:58 PM1 votes

The reason why, for example, a Diamond players opinion is held much higher than a Silver is because a Silver player could play against the same champ consistently and never be able to beat them. I've played in Silver ranked games and I see a lot of people consistently make the same mistakes, especially in the same game. If you even look at different League related websites that talk about ranks/elos you'll see they talk about different champs that are really good in lower elos because people don't learn how to play against them. Not gonna lie, I've had more Bronze/Silver friends complain about champions that aren't op and I try to explain how to play against them but they refuse to listen. Most Silver players don't want to hear that it's them that's keeping them from climbing, they want you to agree that it's their team. So no, as long as Silver players blame their teams I don't want to hear their input on a balance change.

FOR JUSTICE3/11/2019, 4:23:20 PM1 votes

i mean its generally frowned upon and usually people only bring up your rank because they cant actually think up a good counter argument to defeat yours. it is absolutely disgraceful and creates no meaningful conversation. so this is kinda the mentality most of the boards has simply because they think "oh he's low elo so hes not that good, he cant even climb using his own advice"

but at the same time, would you listen to a ten minute google search or a doctor when deciding if you have a sickness? <- this line of logic is why most people only listen to the plat+ 200iq smurfs.

Tobykachu3/11/2019, 5:00:15 PM1 votes

Of course not, your experiences and enjoyment of the game is just as important as anyone else's. Generally though, lower elo players don't understand a lot of the more mechanical elements to the game. For example there are plenty of people who are calling for the Nasus buff to be reverted even though he is still not really a huge threat in higher elos due to how easy it is to kite him.

ROYALR3IGN3/11/2019, 6:39:13 PM1 votes

People should not cite the authority of an argument as an issue with the argument but should actually think for the themselves and decide if the argument itself is sound. Even a Silver player could have really good insight into the game but is being held back by some combination of poor microskills, the lack of time to play (irl stuff), unfortunate teams etc.

Totally Worth It3/11/2019, 6:45:03 PM1 votes

This is built on a stereotype that because you are X rank that isn't Gold+ then nothing you say is worth listening to.

That being said a number of extremely overpowered builds are found in lower elos of play and mimicked by higher tier players who (because they have an understanding of WHY it works) abuse the absolute crap out of it.

Being lower elo doesn't mean you're bad and that your comments should be ignored. It's very likely you are right about what you're saying, you just lack the understanding of the why (which is needed to give your point the clout it needs). Once you understand the why behind anything, it all makes sense.

Tahngarthor3/11/2019, 8:11:55 PM1 votes

All feedback is important, however they do have to see a consistent issue across a particular range of players to justify a balance specifically tailored to that range.

But you're right, actual skill in game isn't necessairly due to a lack of understanding of mechanics and shouldn't invalidate opinions about mechanics. You could know the game inside and out but struggle with execution or skillshots etc.