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How long till you ban this famous streamer?

Snowman Arc··5 votes·3,370 views
Screenshot

https://prnt.sc/jaecix https://prnt.sc/jaed7v

How long till this guy, who is a famous streamer, finally gets banned? I watched his stream, randomly, for the first time today, to see what he is all about and then checked his op.gg.

In the 3 games I watched, he literally did the same thing over and over again, which led to him dying over and over again. EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I'm gonna go on and assume that in the games where he had 12 deaths or something, he kept doing the same thing; dying stupidly.

I understand the need to splitpush, but dying over and over again gives the enemy the freedom to play 5v4 for the next 30 seconds or something, while also granting them gold.

If that wasn't enough, the guy keeps ignoring his team's suggestions to stop solo pushing and dying, while also spamming the surrender button and keeping on flaming and blaming his teammates on chat.

How the fuck is this

  1. accepted gameplay-wise? The guy is essentially doing the same thing and dying for it. Isn't that inting? Also, he's not communicating with his team and even flames them sometimes.
  2. good example of the game? Seeing how this guy has quite a lot of viewers on Twitch, it makes the game look bad. New players coming into the game might get to watch this guy, and consider this to be correct behavior. Essentially inting, and then blaming it to his team, while complaining about everything about the game.

EDIT: Seeing all these replies makes me wonder about your sanity, so I'll attempt an example where you might find yourselves into.

Let's assume you are in a game, where your top laner is 0/4/0. It can happen. Also, let's assume that you are the ADC in that game, and you have a lead over the enemy, as does the mid laner, the jungler and your support. Essentially, 4 players are ahead and one player is behind. Now, that one player (assume Jax) keeps trying to go solo and split push to attempt to take a tower. Because his ability to do so isn't good, and he can't push fast enough and he isn't strong enough to 1v1, and there is no vision around him, he almost reaches the enemy tower and dies. In the meanwhile, the enemy team has pushed out your minions, so you can't really take advantage of the number's advantage while they send people to kill Jax. After Jax dies, the enemy team is able to use that 5v4 adv to gain more advs over the map. Jax does this again 1 minute later, and dies again, and the enemy team gets more advs. You then politely ask Jax to stop doing that and help in some other way. He ignores you, calls you useless for being unable to carry him since you're fed, and keeps on splitpushing, only to die again.

Now, again, assume you are the ADC in this case, how would you deal with this? Eventually, you lose that game and the biggest reason is that Jax wouldn't listen and cost you the game, even after asking him repeatedly to stop doing it. Would you consider that inting? I would definitely report him for inting, at least because he didn't communicate with the ENTIRE team. Should he be punished? Depends. If it only happened in one game, then maybe he should be forgiven. Maybe he had a bad game. Maybe his strat didn't work in just that game.

What happens if this happens over the last 18 of his 20 games, though? What happens if in almost every game he plays, he is the main reason he loses, and never listens to the team? Is that acceptable? It vividly reminds me of the Singed support with smite situation, where the player had an incredibly low winrate with that strategy.

If you don't consider that inting, then I really don't understand your mindset and I'm probably too stupid to follow it.

58 Comments

Chermorg6 votes

So because he has a different idea of what the way to victory is, he deserves a ban?

Riot does not punish off meta ideas. Split pushing to the death is not punishable as long as they're trying to win. Very likely his team understands this and isn't reporting him for it either.

Ph03n1xdust2 votes

Very likely his team understands it: "the guy keeps ignoring his team's suggestions to stop solo pushing and dying, while also spamming the surrender button and keeping on flaming and blaming his teammates on chat." Did you read the whole post?

If my idea to victory is to run down a sidelane 24/7 dying, ignoring my teammates, and in the end losing the game. Then ye, i would say it deserves a ban. This is pure mindless softinting. Happy to see you defending an obvious toxic player again :)

"Riot does not punish off meta ideas." - A Trundle support with smite just got banned for his "off-meta ideas"

Kanzler1 votes

{quoted}

Very likely his team understands it: "the guy keeps ignoring his team's suggestions to stop solo pushing and dying, while also spamming the surrender button and keeping on flaming and blaming his teammates on chat." Did you read the whole post?

If my idea to victory is to run down a sidelane 24/7 dying, ignoring my teammates, and in the end losing the game. Then ye, i would say it deserves a ban. This is pure mindless softinting. Happy to see you defending an obvious toxic player again :)

"Riot does not punish off meta ideas." - A Trundle support with smite just got banned for his "off-meta ideas"

Of course he didn't read the post. Chermorg is a god awful mod who does nothing but parrot random snippets from Red posts. "Riot doesn't punish off meta strategies REEEEEEEEEE".

That guy deserves a ban more than the trundle support guy.

Snowman Arc2 votes

His team almost always asks him to stop dying the way he does, and he completely ignores them in almost every game. Also, how the fuck is his strategy acceptable? His way to victory apparently doesn't work, because he has lost so many games with it.

Let's assume I'm a jungler, and the only thing I do on the map is try to take the drake from level 1. I keep dying over and over again, because obviously I can't solo it and sometimes the enemy jungler happens to be around and kills me. Then, when I respawn, still level 1, I try to kill drake again. I'm trying to assist my team by taking the drake, yeah? Taking drakes grants bonuses to the team, which is a way to victory, yeah? Do you consider this strategy worthy of punishment or not?

Chermorg5 votes

Theres a difference between repetitively fighting dragon when you know for a fact you can't do it, and split pushing.

He doesn't have to be getting towers for his split pushing to work. In lower Elo especially, sending a hard tank like Illaoi to go run down top, distracting 2-3 of the enemy team while your teammates win bot and mid. That is a perfectly valid strategy, and if that's what he's going for, you cannot fault him for his teammates not capitalizing on it.

He isn't required to play any particular way just because his team doesn't like his strategy.

Snowman Arc1 votes

So, you know want to somehow attribute a rating of how effective a strategy is based on what? Don't kid yourself. The guy has his own gameplan, which in a particular game doesn't work, and he keeps on doing it. And he lost almost all of his past 20 games doing it. At this point, his strategies are just as bad as the level 1 drake example.

Also, don't compare bronze elo splitpushing to diamond V splitpushing. I have played in both elo, and I know that in bronze, almost anything works. That doesn't apply in higher up elo.

In any case, his strategy doesn't work, and the proof is his big losing streaks, even after games where his team got big leads. He consistently loses lane because of his own faults, he never gets to help his team through vision or smart pressure and generally is a liability. If that's not enough, he is also a pillar of negativity, constantly blaming his team in chat and on stream for his own fuck ups, and constantly wanting to surrender when one thing doesn't go right for him.

Battalion2 votes

You honestly believe that by the time the guy is 0/4/0 in the 3rd consecutive game that day, that he shouldn't realize what he's doing is incorrect? This is not a new player nor is it just one or two losses, nor is a streak of close losses. This guy is single handedly losing the game for his team, time and time again, game after game, day after day. While it may not be as blatantly moronic as trying to solo dragon at level one, twice over, it's still destroying the game experience for 4 other players.

Lets assume this only happens once a day every week, the other games he's totally fine.

4 players x 7 games = 28 players who wasted their time

Lets go for a month with roughly 3 weeks to be generous:

28 x 3 = 84 players that month who wasted their time

In a year, again being super fricken generous here:

84 x 12 = 1,008 players in a year

Yeah that's normal and not toxic behavior at all.

Invidie3 votes

{quoted}

You honestly believe that by the time the guy is 0/4/0 in the 3rd consecutive game that day, that he shouldn't realize what he's doing is incorrect? This is not a new player nor is it just one or two losses, nor is a streak of close losses. This guy is single handedly losing the game for his team, time and time again, game after game, day after day. While it may not be as blatantly moronic as trying to solo dragon at level one, twice over, it's still destroying the game experience for 4 other players.

Lets assume this only happens once a day every week, the other games he's totally fine.

4 players x 7 games = 28 players who wasted their time

Lets go for a month with roughly 3 weeks to be generous:

28 x 3 = 84 players that month who wasted their time

In a year, again being super fricken generous here:

84 x 12 = 1,008 players in a year

Yeah that's normal and not toxic behavior at all.

classic answer: People can have bad games! apparently this is not punishable , but if he flames people, he could be potentially punished if his teammates report him.

Battalion1 votes

He shouldn't be banned, he should be forced to play and win 20 bot games and then 20 normal games. Then he can go back into ranked. For reference the amount of time spent doing that is only equal to about two weeks of the time his teams mates have lost to his bullshit.

Invidie2 votes

{quoted}

He shouldn't be banned, he should be forced to play and win 20 bot games and then 20 normal games. Then he can go back into ranked. For reference the amount of time spent doing that is only equal to about two weeks of the time his teams mates have lost to his bullshit.

again, based on my understand on the riot system, his behavior is not punishable. ( speaking as a player who got suspended for 14days, and 35 chat restricted games)

TeCoolMage2 votes

soo losing 252 times (total 1008 other players in your team assuming they're all different) out of an indeterminate number of games (could be 1000 or more) for playing badly should lead to a ban?

god if I had to worry about being banned for being blamed x times I'd do everything to be a 0 deaths KDA player and intentionally (but subtly) find ways to get someone else to feed. Screw 'improving' or 'listening to allies' I'd just outright manipulate people by waiting till the very last moment to ping mia or ask them to ward a bush I know a 5 man is waiting in if I was on the losing side, just so someone else can take the blame for me

Battalion2 votes

That number drastically rises if you put in realistic totals such as 2 of these "bad games" five times a week. If a single player is ruining the game for almost 2,000 other players yearly, and not just losing, but straight up 0/8 - 0/13 back to back to back in an identifiable trend, yeah they should get penalized. Why is a top laner taking smite and ignite, going 0/11 trolling, and a guy who does this isn't? What're you even trying to defend? The right to feed every game without consequence?

archerno16 votes

I assume thats Hashinshin? Ban him for what? Thats his playstyle that got him to Diamond and even in Master. He is always splitpushing.

Snowman Arc3 votes

It is Hash.

First of all, that playstyle got him to Diamond. If that's the case, it seems like lately, in that elo he is now, it doesn't work anymore. It's apparent from his big losing streaks and general win-loss ratio. Just because it worked in lower elo doesn't mean it works here, which means he needs to change it up and adapt, otherwise it can be considered feeding. Also, just because it worked in past seasons, doesn't mean it works now. Meta changes and a strategy that worked back then might not work now, because the dynamic of the game changed.

I have a good personal example as to why you should change your playstyle and adapt, and why is should be punishable if you, essentially, keep banging your head against the wall and asking why it hurts. I play assassin Jarvan on my silver smurfs and I WRECK people, it's free elo. I have terrible games when I do this in platinum elo, to the point that I realized that this playstyle just won't work, so I changed it.

Lack of adapting over A SERIES OF GAMES to what the game needs, thus resulting in having terrible KDA and big losing streaks, should be punishable, either with the casual punishments for inting, or less harsh, like dropping a division. Seeing how it's really hard to drop from a V division to the lower I division, the guy would just play in Diamond V elo for so many games before he drops, and there would be quite a lot of players suffering from his incompetence.

Inting or not aside, the guy is also quite toxic. Not as much in chat, though, but he is quite toxic on stream and sets a bad image for the game. In chat, he NEVER coordinates or listens to the team, and when he fucks up, he always blames his team and blames how everything else is OP, apart from the things he plays. He always blames his jungler, he even blamed his VASTLY WINNING bot lane for not being able to carry his trash ass, and all that was actually said in the game chat! Seeing how the guy has also been penalized on other accounts before (or at least I assume he is), the fact that he can still have multiple accounts while streaming and getting away with his toxic behavior is baffling me.

archerno17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:34:18.355+0000)

It is Hash.

First of all, that playstyle got him to Diamond. If that's the case, it seems like lately, in that elo he is now, it doesn't work anymore. It's apparent from his big losing streaks and general win-loss ratio. Just because it worked in lower elo doesn't mean it works here, which means he needs to change it up and adapt, otherwise it can be considered feeding. Also, just because it worked in past seasons, doesn't mean it works now. Meta changes and a strategy that worked back then might not work now, because the dynamic of the game changed.

I have a good personal example as to why you should change your playstyle and adapt, and why is should be punishable if you, essentially, keep banging your head against the wall and asking why it hurts. I play assassin Jarvan on my silver smurfs and I WRECK people, it's free elo. I have terrible games when I do this in platinum elo, to the point that I realized that this playstyle just won't work, so I changed it.

Lack of adapting over A SERIES OF GAMES to what the game needs, thus resulting in having terrible KDA and big losing streaks, should be punishable, either with the casual punishments for inting, or less harsh, like dropping a division. Seeing how it's really hard to drop from a V division to the lower I division, the guy would just play in Diamond V elo for so many games before he drops, and there would be quite a lot of players suffering from his incompetence.

Inting or not aside, the guy is also quite toxic. Not as much in chat, though, but he is quite toxic on stream and sets a bad image for the game. In chat, he NEVER coordinates or listens to the team, and when he fucks up, he always blames his team and blames how everything else is OP, apart from the things he plays. He always blames his jungler, he even blamed his VASTLY WINNING bot lane for not being able to carry his trash ass, and all that was actually said in the game chat! Seeing how the guy has also been penalized on other accounts before (or at least I assume he is), the fact that he can still have multiple accounts while streaming and getting away with his toxic behavior is baffling me.

Well u just screenshotted losses. Before that he had similar win streak 8 or 9 in a row. And his last few games today he won 4/6. You purposely screenshotted his loss streak to use it for your narrative

https://imgur.com/a/dQOTTrH

Same playstyle, opposite result.

He is not toxic, just entertaining. And he has cool cat.

saltran4 votes

Thank you, I hate when ppl manipulates like OP did even if I don't like Hashinshin.

His cat is indeed cool but I'm not sure about him not being toxic.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, that playstyle worked in those games, but in other games, it didn't. As I said before, if you keep banging your head against the wall over and over again, and wondering why it hurts, then you have a problem and it's your fault. If you keep doing the same strategy in a game over and over again and dying and losing because of it, then it's your fault for losing, Keeping on doing it in the next game to the exact same result means that you should stop doing in, at least for that particular game. Trying it on the next game should be the way to go, maybe in the next game it will work.

In different situations, the same strategy will have different results. Splitpushing in one game might grant you a win, and doing so in another game might cost you the game. Therefore, since you know that doing something might cost you the game, you should stop doing it. If you keep doing it, knowing that based on your track record you're gonna lose, then you should be punished.

Venompaw4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:58:28.679+0000)

Well, that playstyle worked in those games, but in other games, it didn't. As I said before, if you keep banging your head against the wall over and over again, and wondering why it hurts, then you have a problem and it's your fault. If you keep doing the same strategy in a game over and over again and dying and losing because of it, then it's your fault for losing, Keeping on doing it in the next game to the exact same result means that you should stop doing in, at least for that particular game. Trying it on the next game should be the way to go, maybe in the next game it will work.

In different situations, the same strategy will have different results. Splitpushing in one game might grant you a win, and doing so in another game might cost you the game. Therefore, since you know that doing something might cost you the game, you should stop doing it. If you keep doing it, knowing that based on your track record you're gonna lose, then you should be punished.

But the outcome isn't known beforehand.

So, 3 games you play "meta" then lose. So, stop playing meta the next game?

Snowman Arc1 votes

When you try to splitpush with no vision and die 8 TIMES in one game, while your team doesn't get an advantage elsewhere, but instead the enemy gets big advantages while you're dead, it should be an indication to stop fucking splitpushing without vision. I'm not saying he shouldn't do it the next game, because the outcome could be different. What I am saying is that "oh, look, they killed me while I was trying to push the tower, it's ok I'll try again, oh it happened again, oh it's ok, I'll try ag... oh they killed me again". Eventually, I should just stop trying to splitpush and actually do something that helps the team. DISCLAIMER: If my splitpush and my death actually means that my team gets advantages elsewhere, then that's ok. But, if my strat instead makes the game worse for us and I keep doing it, then I'm in fault and essentially inting.

Now, based on experience, if the bad strat in one game happened to be bad in my next game, and then the game after, and the game after that, then I should realize that 1) that strat is generally bad, and I should avoid using it, or 2) if I have the luxury to risk trying it and failing again, I shouldn't attempt it again in that game. At the end of the day, I should be able to assess the situation and avoid doing something purposefully that, based on prior experience, loses me the game.

Venompaw3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:01:59.612+0000)

When you try to splitpush with no vision and die 8 TIMES in one game, while your team doesn't get an advantage elsewhere, but instead the enemy gets big advantages while you're dead, it should be an indication to stop fucking splitpushing without vision. I'm not saying he shouldn't do it the next game, because the outcome could be different. What I am saying is that "oh, look, they killed me while I was trying to push the tower, it's ok I'll try again, oh it happened again, oh it's ok, I'll try ag... oh they killed me again". Eventually, I should just stop trying to splitpush and actually do something that helps the team. DISCLAIMER: If my splitpush and my death actually means that my team gets advantages elsewhere, then that's ok. But, if my strat instead makes the game worse for us and I keep doing it, then I'm in fault and essentially inting.

Now, based on experience, if the bad strat in one game happened to be bad in my next game, and then the game after, and the game after that, then I should realize that 1) that strat is generally bad, and I should avoid using it, or 2) if I have the luxury to risk trying it and failing again, I shouldn't attempt it again in that game. At the end of the day, I should be able to assess the situation and avoid doing something purposefully that, based on prior experience, loses me the game.

Die in splitpush, will also likely die in team fight.

The last time he got masters is I believe season 6. S7 he was hardstuck Diamond, same this season. So no, he didn't get masters so far in almost 2 years. The meta changed around him and what worked back then doesn't work now. So, maybe he should actually change his strategy. Also, I got from gold 4 to plat 3 playing mostly Janna this season. I had a 63% winrate over 100 games with her, up until I started dropping. I realized what I was doing up to that point doesn't work that well anymore, so I changed my strat and tried other roles to success.

The penalty of bad strategies should be failure to climb, which this person is experiencing.

Snowman Arc1 votes

{quoted}

Die in splitpush, will also likely die in team fight.

The penalty of bad strategies should be failure to climb, which this person is experiencing.

This player also invalidates any attempt from his teammates to win, which is toxic.

Venompaw3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:40:45.915+0000)

This player also invalidates any attempt from his teammates to win, which is toxic.

but if he grouped, would his team have won or just lost differently?

Snowman Arc1 votes

{quoted}

but if he grouped, would his team have won or just lost differently?

You can't know that. What we do know is that his previous was definitely losing his team the game though. Therefore, I'd say that if they wanted to have any chances of winning, doing literally ANYTHING ELSE would be a better strategy. From a logical standpoint, the rest of his team was quite ahead of the enemy, up until the point where he started dying multiple times. His team was still stronger, even after he died 2-3 times, yet he kept doing it, and eventually the enemy team managed to overtake them. I assume that if he tried to splitpush with vision, and backing off when he didn't know where his enemies where, and then grouping with the team, they would have won. At least, they wouldn't lose as hard as they did, with the big advantage they had.

TeCoolMage5 votes

People forget that faker has had 10+ lose streaks before

Snowman Arc1 votes

Yes, but Faker doesn't mindlessly keep doing the same thing that loses him the games. Everyone gets bad teams and can lose. But Hash gets good teams sometimes, and they even have a lead, and yet he still manages to throw the game because of his flawed strats.

ShaolinToilet1 votes

He is toxic though

Chermorg5 votes

Are his teammates reporting in games? If his teammates aren't taking offense to his chat, it's not going to be punished. Likewise, maybe his teammates all understand they no right to boss him around and force him to play their way, and so don't report him.

Venompaw3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:34:18.355+0000)

It is Hash.

First of all, that playstyle got him to Diamond. If that's the case, it seems like lately, in that elo he is now, it doesn't work anymore. It's apparent from his big losing streaks and general win-loss ratio. Just because it worked in lower elo doesn't mean it works here, which means he needs to change it up and adapt, otherwise it can be considered feeding. Also, just because it worked in past seasons, doesn't mean it works now. Meta changes and a strategy that worked back then might not work now, because the dynamic of the game changed.

I have a good personal example as to why you should change your playstyle and adapt, and why is should be punishable if you, essentially, keep banging your head against the wall and asking why it hurts. I play assassin Jarvan on my silver smurfs and I WRECK people, it's free elo. I have terrible games when I do this in platinum elo, to the point that I realized that this playstyle just won't work, so I changed it.

Lack of adapting over A SERIES OF GAMES to what the game needs, thus resulting in having terrible KDA and big losing streaks, should be punishable, either with the casual punishments for inting, or less harsh, like dropping a division. Seeing how it's really hard to drop from a V division to the lower I division, the guy would just play in Diamond V elo for so many games before he drops, and there would be quite a lot of players suffering from his incompetence.

Inting or not aside, the guy is also quite toxic. Not as much in chat, though, but he is quite toxic on stream and sets a bad image for the game. In chat, he NEVER coordinates or listens to the team, and when he fucks up, he always blames his team and blames how everything else is OP, apart from the things he plays. He always blames his jungler, he even blamed his VASTLY WINNING bot lane for not being able to carry his trash ass, and all that was actually said in the game chat! Seeing how the guy has also been penalized on other accounts before (or at least I assume he is), the fact that he can still have multiple accounts while streaming and getting away with his toxic behavior is baffling me.

If he got to Diamond the same way, why should he change his strategy if it somehow got him to masters?

If you change your strategy after every loss streak, you end up getting nowhere.

if you got to say masters playing assassin Jarvan, then had a 10 loss streak ALSO playing Assassin Jarvan, why should you change it? Do the wins that came before not matter anymore?

Snowman Arc1 votes

The last time he got masters is I believe season 6. S7 he was hardstuck Diamond, same this season. So no, he didn't get masters so far in almost 2 years. The meta changed around him and what worked back then doesn't work now. So, maybe he should actually change his strategy. Also, I got from gold 4 to plat 3 playing mostly Janna this season. I had a 63% winrate over 100 games with her, up until I started dropping. I realized what I was doing up to that point doesn't work that well anymore, so I changed my strat and tried other roles to success.

As you climb up, you play against tougher opposition. What worked before might not work that well after 20 wins in a row. You need to adapt. This guy clearly doesn't adapt, which leads him to be a big part of his team losing a lot of games.

Eedat1 votes

You should actually watch him. He does tilt to the point of greifing quite frequently

Kaioko4 votes

Must be nice to only screenshot the losing games and ignore the win streaks. If your only argument is his play style -- you have no basis for it and are twisting the truth to fit you which is even worse.

Invidie3 votes

classic answer: people can have bad games! they have the freedom to build whatever they want, play however they want : )

Venompaw3 votes

Honestly, I wasn't attempting to manipulate. I just wanted to point out how having a big losing streak and keep trying the same thing you used to get that losing streak is wrong. The fact that it might have granted him a winning streak before doesn't mean he should blindly just keep using it. Also, it doesn't mean he should never use it again just because he got a losing streak either.

All I'm saying is that he (and all players) should adapt. And it's not like "oh look my strategy didn't work in one game and we lost because of it". I have lost games where my own strategy didn't work, but I learn from it and realize that if a similar situation occurs again, I should avoid that strategy because we will lose again. I'd consider myself inting, if I kept doing the same thing that lost me other games.

Based on this, you can't decide not to split push before the game even begins.

AeroWaffle3 votes
  1. accepted gameplay-wise? The guy is essentially doing the same thing and dying for it. Isn't that inting?

Intentional feeding implies that it's done to lose the game. As others have pointed out, his playstyle has the purpose of winning the game. Sometimes his playstyle involves him dying a lot because he is splitpushing, but you don't get to dictate how he shouldn't play as long as he is playing to win.

Snowman Arc1 votes

That's wrong, in my opinion. Just because you slap the intention of winning when doing something, doesn't mean it should be good and go unpunished. As I mentioned in another example, I can go, as a jungler, at level 1 and attempt to solo dragon, which can't be done. I will just keep dying and my team would play a 4v5. I have all the intention in the world to kill it though, which would help my team win. I would want to win. But the strategy is bad. I should be punished for doing it if I don't find success repeatedly with it.

Or, another example, I like to play Soraka jungle, because I can roam between lanes and heal my laners so they never lose lane! Good strategy, right? Oh, fuck, look, I died to freaking raptors. It's ok though, I'll try ag... Ah fuck, I died to wolves. Ah, I'm still level 2 and the enemy jungler is level 5 and 2/0/0. Ah, I guess my strat didn't work this time. Nah, it's a bad strat and I should be punished for it if I don't find success repeatedly with it.

AeroWaffle4 votes

As I mentioned in another example, I can go, as a jungler, at level 1 and attempt to solo dragon, which can't be done.

Then by definition you are doing so knowing that it's bad for the team. So it's intentional feeding.

I have all the intention in the world to kill it though

No, you just revealed that you knew that you couldn't. You would only have the pretense that you were trying.

Or, another example, I like to play Soraka jungle, because I can roam between lanes and heal my laners so they never lose lane! Good strategy, right? Oh, fuck, look, I died to freaking raptors. It's ok though, I'll try ag... Ah fuck, I died to wolves. Ah, I'm still level 2 and the enemy jungler is level 5 and 2/0/0. Ah, I guess my strat didn't work this time. Nah, it's a bad strat and I should be punished for it if I don't find success repeatedly with it.

Once again, you are revealing that you believe it to be a strategy that is bad for the team. If you do that strategy with that opinion you are intentionally feeding.

To put it in a simple example;

You touch an object that you didn't know was going to burn you. It burns you. Since you didn't know it would burn you it wasn't intentional.

You touch an object that you know will burn you. It burns you. You just intentionally burned yourself.

Snowman Arc1 votes

You have it all wrong. Understand context. I don't mean that I will personally do it. I mean that someone else might do that, but I know that it will never work. That person doing it might not realize it though, he only thinks he is helping the team, or at least trying. Clueless as fuck, I know, but you can't blame him, right?

AeroWaffle4 votes

That person doing it might not realize it though, he only thinks he is helping the team, or at least trying. Clueless as fuck, I know, but you can't blame him, right?

Then no. If we can beyond a reasonable doubt determine their intent you can't ban them for being bad at the game.

And that's the giant hurdle with detecting intentional feeding. You have to prove that they are doing it with the intention of losing. In your OP you point out that the person lost a bunch of games with high deaths. So what? Somebody else posted a bunch of games where the person WON with the same gameplay style, casting reasonable doubt on your intentional losing accusation.

No one should be banned from a video game for playing poorly. That's what losing is for.

Arisha the Dark2 votes

Unfortunate consequence of capitalism. The more famous and rich you are, the more you can get away with before authorities do something about it.

League is not an exception. Streamers and professional players rarely get banned even for being openly toxic. It does happen sometimes, but not often enough for rest of them to stop.

Imperial Pandaa5 votes

Keep in mind that you have to be reported to be reviewed. So if they don't get reported by someone in game, they did nothing wrong. This is especially true in higher elo where you might play the same people frequently. They get to know you and don't report you.

If they are toxic verbally on stream, not in game, then currently they won't be punished. Why? Because they don't police streams, unless someone is id banned.

Ph03n1xdust2 votes

"the guy keeps ignoring his team's suggestions to stop solo pushing and dying, while also spamming the surrender button and keeping on flaming and blaming his teammates on chat." - Ye, probably his team didn't report him, makes sense to me!

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

I was talking about his general claim that streamers/pros don't get banned.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Honestly, I don't know if his team reports him after the game, but what I know is that they don't agree with his strategy. I will assume that there are some games where he does get reported. In any case, I strongly believe that Riot should be taking a look into big streamers, because they probably affect quite a lot of players with their mindset. I will give you an example. If Tyler1, for some weird reason, never got reported by anyone somehow, he would never been banned, which would be wrong. Riot should be looking into his stream and realize that he is a bad influence to the community of League.

Generally, allowing people like Hashinshin to play the way they do, flame the way they do, and go unpunished, just because they mainly do it on stream, shows that Riot doesn't really care about that type of behavior and in some way enables other players to follow that mentality and be toxic in game. Sure, being toxic in game will get you penalized, but there is a constant flow of new players entering League who will be toxic, based on that stream. And no matter how many players you penalize, there will keep being more and more coming, based on the fact that Riot seems to not care about the streamers' toxic mentality.

A good solution, if Riot doesn't wanna go the way of penalizing people for what they do on stream is to actually create THEIR OWN STREAMERS and show the correct mindset and behavior. They could hire good players with good behavior to stream for their channel so that they at least have their hands clean. At least then they will have an excuse that "hey, at least we have our own stream showing you how you can be respectful", instead of semi-promoting people like Hash or T1, by allowing them their bs.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

While that sounds like a good idea on paper, there is more problems from a managerial perspective.

If they "hired" streamers then most likely would have to disallow donations from that streamers fans during "work" time. That or have suck pay in hopes donations/tips balance it.

The best they could do would be host on the LoL Twitch channel.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Yeah, having them on their official channel is what I meant.

SenorBobbers2 votes

You don't know what "inting" means. Stop watching your little streamers for 5 bloody minutes and understand that it's short for "intentionally feeding". FEEDING. You CANNOT punish someone who's playing the game how he wants to play, nor can you report them for playing badly. He can only be punished if he INTENTIONALLY does something to ruin the game for everyone (FEEDING).

EDIT: Don't bother debating with him guys, he's gone into full child mode

Snowman Arc1 votes

But he did exactly that. Did you even take time to read my original post? The guy kept doing the same thing multiple times in a game, over a large amount of games, a thing which ruined the game for his team. His team had big advantages, and the guy single-handed threw away all those advantage because he only did the same thing which resulted to failure EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Also, if you can't report anyone for wanting to play they way they want, then you can't punish me for playing Soraka jungle, right? I mean, I might die to raptors, but it's not like I'm feeding the enemy, right? Or I just have to back after every camp I kill because I must recharge my resource bars, but I'm not doing anything wrong, right? And 10 minutes into the game, I'm only level 3 while the enemy jungler has snowballed every lane, but it's not like I did anything wrong or I fed, it's just that my strategy didn't work, right?

Or is my strategy wrong, because you haven't seen any pro player do it? Which one is it? Anything is acceptable in league, as long as there is some famous streamer doing it, right? I mean, how many times would you flame someone for having bad games as a mage in the ADC position? But when Ziggs became popular in the ADC position because of some NA challenger guy, somehow that was good. Or when MF was played as a support and everyone kept trying and feeding with it, it was ok, because it was played in Worlds semis, right? The streamer that keeps dying due to splitpushing and having an average of 11 deaths in his past number of games is ok, because it's splitpushing, right? But if I'm useless as Soraka jungle, it's not ok, because it hasn't been done before, right?

The double standards that some people have...

AeroWaffle2 votes

Also, if you can't report anyone for wanting to play they way they want, then you can't punish me for playing Soraka jungle, right? I mean, I might die to raptors, but it's not like I'm feeding the enemy, right? Or I just have to back after every camp I kill because I must recharge my resource bars, but I'm not doing anything wrong, right? And 10 minutes into the game, I'm only level 3 while the enemy jungler has snowballed every lane, but it's not like I did anything wrong or I fed, it's just that my strategy didn't work, right?

We've been over this. If you honestly believe that your soraka jungle is a benefit to the team you are allowed to play it. Playing the game poorly alone is not bannable. You just end up losing many more games until the game starts matching you with/against people of your skill level.

It's the intention that matters.

You've revealed that you don't believe it to be a benefit to the team. So you picking soraka jungle is intentionally playing poorly.

45accspermadbtw2 votes

I'm going to assume hes the average NA player?

The Sword Saint2 votes

You are attempting to enforce your personal opinion on how people should be allowed to play the game. Even the best players don't win more than 60% of their matches at their own elo. Almost half the time they go to execute their strategies and fail.

What about the malphite player who sometimes has game winning ultimates and sometimes has game throwing ultimates, but always plays with the plan of going for the big 5 man? What about the jungler player who always goes for baron and elder calls which sometimes win or lose the game?

You don't have the right to dictate to others what their strategy for winning has to be in even a single game, let alone in all of them.

The penalty for having a bad strategy is losing elo, not your account.

Having a high risk, high reward playstyle that gives you a large amount of agency over the outcome of the game isn't against the rules. God forbid anyone try to take the limelight away from the adcs being the some determining factors of who wins a game by forcing the enemy team to constantly respond to your map pressure.

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