Boards›Player Behavior

Riot Support's Response to my Permaban Ticket

GodCarry·5/13/2018, 12:00:37 AM·139 votes·30,329 views

Many of you will have seen my other post titled "I truly believe I was wrongfully banned. Please tell me what you think." Long story short, I was permanently banned 1 game after I came off my 2 week ban. In this game, I was constantly harassed, and despite me keeping my cool and trying my best to remain positive, I was permanently banned.

I don't believe my behavior warranted any kind of punishment, and 77% of those who voted in my poll agreed with me. Despite gaining a lot of traction throughout the day on a Friday, no one from Riot responded to my post.

I spoke to Riot Live Chat and the support agent treated my logs exactly like a robot would and gave me a vague response. So, I created a support ticket:

GODCARRY May 10th 2018, 11:17:02 pm After a month of inactivity (aside from a premade normals in which I barely spoke in chat) I played a game in which I was flamed and harassed by my premade team for playing poorly and not using Discord voice. I believe I did not flame at all this game. I wrote a Boards post here, if that is relevant at all to you: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wauyY0e2-i-truly-believe-i-was-wrongfully-banned-please-tell-me-what-you-think

The worst thing I said this game is "you're a moron" and I wasn't even name calling. The full comment, if I didn't break it up into multiple messages, was "youre a moron // for trash talking someone // for wanting to focus on the game // and for having a bad game // youre just toxic,."

The reason I said this is because I genuinely believe this player is a moron for risking their account to flame and harass me over me not wanting to use Discord voice. I tried to explain to them that I wanted to focus on the game, but because I wasn't performing well, they continued to harass me.

Please review my ban and decide if you think it was rightfully given to me. I truly believe it wasn't, and it appears that the majority of the community agrees with me.

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DEME LOVATO May 11th 2018, 11:38:25 am Hey Carry,

Now, I may not have the best news here, but hopefully I'll be able to provide some context on the situation as to why you were escalated to this point.

To start off, I completely get how tilting other players can be -- whether they are feeding or verbally harassing you throughout the whole game -- so I'll go ahead and look into any players that were being negative in that game and action accordingly as we definitely don't want them to ruin other players' games as well. However, we are ultimately in control of our own actions and not that of others. Oftentimes, engaging with negativity only contributes to it and that's something we don't want to condone either. Name calling, blaming others, calling them out on their performance/behavior, and constantly arguing isn't constructive to the situation and actually just perpetuates the negative environment that others may have set.

As far as the perma goes, with each successive penalty comes a harsher one. Especially in the case of a two week suspension, that becomes your last and final warning to discontinue all negative behavior from that point forward. On its own, this game would've likely resulted in a chat restriction, but seeing as negativity was observed despite this, you were escalated to our highest level of penalization. For these reasons, sadly, I'll have to say that the suspension was justified and will have to remain.

Again, not the best news here, but hopefully I was able to share how and why you were escalated to this point. If you have any other questions or if anything else was confusing about the ban, feel free to lemme know so that I can fill in any gaps!

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GODCARRY May 11th 2018, 7:18:49 pm I was not negative in this game, and if you took the time to look at my chat logs you would see that. I was actually positive despite being torn apart by multiple people in the game. I believe I showed evidence of reform, and if I was given the chance to play a couple more games, I would have continued to prove that.

Sadly, your company's failed behavior system took one game with NO evidence of toxicity, and somehow found the most tame and mild trigger words and issued me a ban.

First, I want to note that engaging with negativity is perfectly acceptable, so long as I'm not being negative in my engagement. You cannot expect me to identify every negative person in a game and never interact with them again.

You claim I was name calling? I MAYBE called one person a name (my support a moron), but if you take a moment to look at that message ALONG WITH THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE, I said he was a moron for flaming me. I would not say that's name calling. I said his behavior was moronic. I was not flaming him and calling him a moron. Huge difference.

You claim I was blaming others? No evidence of this in the logs. I did not blame one player one single time. I was frustrated after I died and said "not sure how to win now... i just died to your lane twice." I died twice to enemy mid/jungle and I lost my entire top side jungle. I simply said I died to their mid lane. This isn't blaming anyone for anything. I even took the time to explain this later in the game to my mid laner, who had been spam pinging me all game.

You claim I was calling them out on their behavior? Calling out implies I named someone and their behavior, which I did not do. I told my support he was toxic, which he was. Can I not point out that someone is being toxic so that they recognize how they're acting towards me? I told my team "gl finding someone who sticks around when you berate them." Is that an example of calling someone out? Because they were harassing me all game after telling me they couldn't get anyone to stick around and play with them for more than one game. Is it wrong to wish them luck in finding someone who will put up with their shit? I said "nice flame all." Is this really against the rules? Multiple people were harassing me all game. I didn't call anyone out here so it's besides the point.

You claim I was constantly arguing? I didn't argue with a single person. I tried to explain myself and my reasons for doing the things I did so hopefully my team would understand and stop harassing me.

How can you seriously find something punishable in my chat this game. I'm genuinely confused as to how you, the live support agent, and some members of the community can be this daft and stubborn. It should be an embarrassment to you.

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DEME LOVATO May 12th 2018, 10:29:01 am Chat is meant to be used to provide positive, constructive feedback (i.e. "Good smite steal fam") or to adopt a neutral stance and share strategies to help contribute to your team's victory (i.e. "Gonna split push top -- if you guys wanna split bot as 4, we should be able to juggle the enemy team around and pressure out some objectives!").

None of this dialogue fits into those two buckets so it would be something that we consider as disruptive to the game and contributing negativity towards it. Like before, this game definitely wasn't deserving of a two week ban or a permaban on its own, but something more akin to a chat restriction. Seeing as the account received multiple warnings prior though about essentially the same behavior, this game basically became the final straw that tipped the account over.

What those other players were doing was definitely not cool -- having to be harassed the entire game. But they will be handled separately (like I said, I'll be looking into them myself) and we never want to stoop down to the level of others and retaliate as that just contributes more negativity to the game.

While I won't be able to help with the account further, if you have any other questions, feel free to let me know. Otherwise, I will be closing the ticket out soon.

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So that's apparently the end of that. We now have a zero tolerance policy in League of Legends. You cannot interact with negative players unless you yourself are being overly positive, or strategizing. Do not debate, argue, or discuss anything other than positive gameplay related topics. Anything else is considered off-topic or negative behavior and will be punished. Without socializing, competitive banter, and occasional bm, every game will begin to look the same and people will begin to get bored and leave. This is what we deserve for not speaking up sooner. Good luck everyone!

340 Comments

AirKingNeo5/13/2018, 1:51:26 AM48 votes

Chat is meant to be used to provide positive, constructive feedback (i.e. "Good smite steal fam")

How the fuck is "Good smite steal fam" constructive feedback? It doesn't even give a single bit of information, just praise.

Creepy snek5/13/2018, 12:50:40 AM47 votes

Riot games defend their fauly system at all costs, as usuall. It's disgusting to see how they rather double down than admit the system made a misstake.

Chat is meant to be used to provide positive, constructive feedback (i.e. "Good smite steal fam")

Since context don't matter how do they know if it's sarcastic or not? Because that is worthy of punishments as well. Weird. It's like they make it up as they go along.

dunder kill5/13/2018, 1:02:39 AM39 votes

Lol I tell people to fuck off constantly and don't get chat restricted ever

Chermorg5/13/2018, 12:06:01 AM37 votes

You repeatedly insult your team (things like "moron", "delusional", "toxic").

You repeatedly express you've given up the game and have a negative attitude towards it (things such as "gg wp" early on, etc)

You are arguing with your team the entire game.

You had prior punishments which should have served as warnings that your behavior is not okay. Socializing, competitive banter, and occasional sportsmanlike bm are okay. Your behavior was not that. Your behavior was insulting, negative, and toxic.

VvVVvV5/13/2018, 3:44:15 AM28 votes

Its hard for me to read this and not think this guy is somehow trolling.

Like you literally just finish a 2 week ban and in your very 1st game back you call someone a moron in the chat and are surprised you got banned?

It doesnt matter how toxic or not toxic you think that one comment is.....your perception of it doesnt matter. Its the perception of the people on the receiving end of it and the people who over see the reports. If a person thinks you are being toxic they report it. And when the report is reviewed, if Riot agrees it was toxic, a punishment is given.

The support person said their 2 week ban is the final warning, which means you have had other punishments in the past. And after a 2 week punishment you still havnt learned.

Once the other players started being toxic in the chat all you had to do was mute them and continue playing. Even if you had a bad game and they all decided to report you for any reason they chose, nothing would of happened, no punishment.

Toxic is toxic no matter how minor or major..doesnt matter if its calling someone a moron or telling them to kill themselves.

A Friendless Boy5/13/2018, 7:23:41 AM18 votes

I will probably get downvoted for this, but I disagree.

I don’t know why it’s being made a bigger problem out of than it is. I mean, it’s pretty simple.

Like every normal places, this virtual game has rules too. A school has rules, and a workplace has rules too. Did you break one of the rules by calling someone a moron? Yes. Did you engage in a negative conversation with other players? Positive. I, personally, don’t care about the context because it’s irrelevant. Nor do I care about the reasons why you did it. It’s another simple policy: any activity on your account, you, and you alone take responsibility. Not me, not Riot and not my neighbor. Is someone harassing you? Mute them. If you still care about their pings, use /mute all or if you don’t care about them at all, then just use /mutefull all. That’s how I start my games and I get an surprising number of Tilt-proof honors because that way I can’t respond to something negative I can’t see in the chat. And I also don’t care about how my team pings me with the question mark because I messed up a move. It happens.

If you still say that you read the chat log and say that it’s positive or neutral, then probably nobody will be able to persuade you.

It’s funny how someone in the comments used the word “victim” because I believe a victim is no longer victim if they attack and talk back, aren’t they? If someone slaps me on the cheeks and then I slap back, am I really being a victim? Nah, by doing so, I sink to their level.

Plus, you don’t just get a permanent ban out of the blue for nothing. You have to be really toxic to get there, and yes, calling someone a moron (not to mention that bigger part of the chat log was just negative trash talking) can be and probably will be the last straw.

And come on someone people in the comments who claim that Riot protects the weak? It is probably the cheesiest belief or reasoning I have ever read my entire life. The game is supposed to be fun, instead you make a Jigsaw game out of it. You may not appreciate the people who you are matched up with (or who surround you) now, but what would you do if you were the only person on Earth? I guess there wouldn’t be ranked games anymore?

So in my humble opinion, Riot does a good job. Now you can downvote me if you so want to. These are my two cents.

Spank the Fox5/13/2018, 2:32:19 AM18 votes

Zero tolerance policy?

You had 35 games of chat restrictions and a two week ban on top of that. How that equates to “zero tol” is beyond me.

You fail to grasp the concept behind this reasoning and keep clutching on the semantics as if that’s a good position to argue from.

I’d be inclined to agree with you if it wasn’t for your piss poor attitude you’ve been demonstrating. Show us your other chat logs from previous restrictions and show us how you’ve learned your lesson from 3 prior warning.

I’ve been permad in the past and gotten away with having a shit attitude in some of my games on this account; zero tol my fucking ass. As long as you follow their warnings, you would’ve been fine. You didn’t and this is your consequence. Learn and move on, fam

PhearBunny5/13/2018, 1:08:05 AM13 votes

premades are literally a cancer to this game. Raise your hand if you've been suspended or banned because a premade thought it would be fun to mass report you for responding to their harassment.

*hand raised.

Thee Pie Man5/13/2018, 3:02:01 AM13 votes

You had prior warnings to this. This altogether was flaming your team mate: "--GodCarry: idk --GodCarry: look up iiiigravesiiii --GodCarry: then look up --GodCarry: rnk1 --GodCarry: and then --GodCarry: realize --GodCarry: youre a moron --GodCarry: for trash talking someone"

It doesn't matter if this was only a chat restriction worthy ban, you HAD warnings, and you chose to be toxic anyways, you unmuted the person just to engage with them in banter again after knowing they were going to flame you and got heated yourself. In my opinion riot made a good call, you were rude to your team mate, and that's what you're judged on, solely you. After multiple warnings this is what lead up to the perma. And that's how the system works, regardless of how little you feel it effected anyone. I'd love to see the other chat logs that even got you to this position beforehand but I doubt you'd provide them/have access to them.

Do you realize how toxic you have to be to even flag the system, you were on their list afterwards yet you STILL flamed someone else. I don't see what you want support to do when YOU yourself had the responsibility not to type something and did so anyways. There's plenty of players that NEVER have had a chat restriction since Season 1 of this game and playing, yet for some reason you couldn't handle getting warnings to stop the behavior and kept it up anyways. This was a deserved ban, you disputing it, however elegantly/concisely as you put it in each of your messages means little, and acting condescending to the support and moderators on this forum doesn't help your case either.

Sir Pouncealot5/13/2018, 6:11:36 AM11 votes

This is honestly disgusting, a victim of constant harrasment defending themselves is NOT an offense.

Its also hilarious how the comments criticizing you are ignoring all forms of context and justifying their ridiculous arguments off single phrases. Yes you were on thin ice, but that doesnt mean not taking shit from others while keeping your cool is something deserving of ANY punishment, regardless of previous ones. You are the first person Ive seen complain about a perma ban that I feel has been wrongfully convicted, bless you man, wish I was able to actually help.

Jinzo Torrance5/13/2018, 2:03:36 AM10 votes

No fucking way, I legit got 0 punishment since I started playing League and sometimes I call my team braindead, insult them in italian, spam ping them or keep flashing emotes when they misplay, no fucking way this triggered the permaban by you saying "You're a moron for harassing me" to a premade of four that harassed over you not joining their Discord.

Hope Tantram finally comes out and actually explains what's going on here, because this is an actual rubbish reason to trigger the permaban, only thing I can think of is that someone in the enemy team was a Rioter and banned you personally off of you saying "Are you delusional?".

CytheGuy5/13/2018, 3:36:30 AM8 votes

The fault in this system lies in that worse punishments are not given for worse actions, they are given for repeated actions. Honestly, if they wanted to stop toxic players then they should just keep giving them chat restrictions. The ONLY time I can see worse punishments for repeated actions is when there is no way to stop the behavior in-game, such as trolling. If I keep yelling "kys" then why not just cut out my tongue instead of shooting me? I wouldn't be surprised if people started making lists of Rioters to attack-on-sight for issuing/defending unjust bans. Now I don't mean flaming them in chat, I just mean mass-reporting them to the point where the system calls for a manual review and the person who is reviewing it just goes "wtf, this is a rioter?"

Morticianjohn5/13/2018, 1:59:21 AM7 votes

I didn't think that you should be punished based on your chat logs so of course I voted in your poll in support of you, however, I can certainly see things from Riot's perspective that you were not displaying enough restraint for someone who was recently chat restricted.

Think about it this way, chat in game by itself can be super annoying, so only do it when you need to. The nice part about this ban is that it's a free game and while it may take a long time to grind out the champs and things that you had on your account I certainly don't find the game more enjoyable the more stuff that I buy, it's just fluff that is nice to have but not really needed to enjoy the game.

With all that said, I would be in favor of you having your ban lifted but it sounds like it's not something they would consider.

Narabug5/13/2018, 5:32:39 AM6 votes

To get a permanent ban you have to be exceptionally toxic, for an extended period of time, and have multiple temporary bans.

The fact that after you repeatedly got temporary bans and still did not learn to just shut up and play (or mute your team if you can't deal with them) means that this permanent ban was a good choice by Riot.

You also don't just get banned for a single report. It has to be a multitude of reports throughout many, many games.

2DunksFromHell5/13/2018, 1:12:49 AM3 votes

No matter how hard you try fam you won’t get unbanned, I offered 750$ to a guy in my ticket for unban but nope he doesn’t want too. My 7 year old account is banned for toxicity and tbh I didn’t even reform and I never will