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The Ban system enhances toxicity; Why bans and chat restrictions don't work

CindersAndSoot·7/22/2019, 11:10:06 PM·3 votes·2,399 views

League's Ban System doesn't work. League is considered the most toxic major online gaming community despite spending massive amounts of time on "fixing" player behavior. This is because Riot is a fundamentally toxic company. They've been outed as having some of the worst company culture of the major gaming firms.

 Things like rampant sexism and homophobia, rape threats, and executive bullying are all commonplace in the Riot community.  You just have to look at the recent events with Riot to see it.

Despite years of refinements every game of League is toxic.  Every game players flame eachother in chat and very frequently people intentionally grief eachother.  

Riot has been caught releasing fake data to support their failing ban system.  They wouldn't have to do that if the average person didn't realize their system is a total sham.  Riot's system doesn't prevent e-bullying, it enhances it.  Some of the most vocal proponents of the automated ban system and even the tribunal system before it are some of the most toxic people in the online gaming community.  The tribunal was busted because the community that participated in it was just there to live out their power fantasies.  

 It sucks to see a game that has so much potential for gameplay be ruined by a broken and aggressive ban system.  Griefing is rarely punished and report baiters can flame mildly til they get a response and then get another player banned off of that response.  Rioters have come out and said "expressing frustration" can get you banned.

Even worse you have blatant abuses of power in things like the Nubrac case. Streamers abusing connections with Rioters to get others banned and the only reason anything happened out of it was because it got so much public attention.

Riot won't ever suffer consequences for their garbage system because they were the first major moba company. They have too many resources and too much of a market share to ever worry about the market punishing them for their issues. If you enjoy mobas you're stuck with Riot.

If you want a better community stop banning people for verbal abuse except in cases of targeted harassment. There is a mute system and if youre worried about getting bullied online and dont use it, you're part of the problem. You don't want to not be bullied, you want to have the power to control other's behavior. Allot more resources to detecting griefing, inting, and AFKs and punish those. But honestly most of your problems will be solved when you stop banning for verbal abuse. People cant flame bait and abuse reports if it doesn't do anything. If you're worried about verbal abuse you can always mute the offending player and you'll never have to see them again.

It's unfortunate to see the leader in moba gaming obsessed with power fantasies through controlling player behavior. Riot can't justify their verbal abuse system. It doesn't stop toxicity and it empowers e-bullies.

Why do you need to stop other people from saying things you don't like? It objectively hasn't made the game even a tiny bit less toxic and you can mute/ignore them and never have to deal with them again. Is the ban system really about toxicity or is it about enforcing your control over anonymous people.

22 Comments

ModThe Djinn7/23/2019, 12:34:58 AM9 votes

{quoted}Riot has been caught releasing fake data to support their failing ban system.

Citation needed.

Riot's system doesn't prevent e-bullying, it enhances it.

Existing evidence suggests the contrary.

The tribunal was busted because the community that participated in it was just there to live out their power fantasies.

Inaccurate from the post-Tribunal analysis. It was less accurate and took longer, hence it was phased out.

Rioters have come out and said "expressing frustration" can get you banned.

Depending on how you express it, yes.

rujitra7/22/2019, 11:20:55 PM8 votes

{quoted}

League is considered the most toxic major online gaming community despite spending massive amounts of time on "fixing" player behavior. This is because Riot is a fundamentally toxic company. They've been outed as having some of the worst company culture of the major gaming firms.

Where is this quote?

 Things like rampant sexism and homophobia, rape threats, and executive bullying are all commonplace in the Riot community.  You just have to look at the recent events with Riot to see it.

You seem to not have looked too far in past the sensationalized headlines.

Despite years of refinements every game of League is toxic.  Every game players flame eachother in chat and very frequently people intentionally grief eachother.

I haven't had someone flame anyone in at least my past 5-6 games.

Riot has been caught releasing fake data to support their failing ban system.

Evidence?

 It sucks to see a game that has so much potential for gameplay be ruined by a broken and aggressive ban system.  Griefing is rarely punished and report baiters can flame mildly til they get a response and then get another player banned off of that response.  Rioters have come out and said "expressing frustration" can get you banned.

Well, yes, if someone responds with toxicity, then yes, they will be punished. If the baiter is flaming, they will also be punished.

Even worse you have blatant abuses of power in things like the Nubrac case. Streamers abusing connections with Rioters to get others banned and the only reason anything happened out of it was because it got so much public attention.

Both players were at fault, and both were banned when the reports were reviewed. Nubrac had been on Riot's radar for WEEKS before the punishment was finally issued.

If you want a better community stop banning people for verbal abuse except in cases of targeted harassment.

Forgive me if I don't understand how allowing more people to verbally abuse each other will improve the community.

There is a mute system and if youre worried about getting bullied online and dont use it, you're part of the problem.

Mute prevents me from being harassed by you - the report and punishment features encourage you to stop doing that to everyone else as well.

Allot more resources to detecting griefing, inting, and AFKs and punish those.

It takes virtually no resources for chat punishments to be issued, thus decreasing the number of chat punishments will not free up resources for punishing griefing/inting behaviors.

But honestly most of your problems will be solved when you stop banning for verbal abuse. People cant flame bait and abuse reports if it doesn't do anything. If you're worried about verbal abuse you can always mute the offending player and you'll never have to see them again.

People can't flame bait and abuse reports now, because either they're not breaking the rules, in which case it's lack of self control - not bait, or they're breaking the rules and it's punishable now. Further, you are victim blaming - people should have to mute because someone else is breaking the rules?

Why do you need to stop other people from saying things you don't like?

Because first and foremost League is a game for enjoyment. It is the same reason you cannot be using your phone in a movie theater, you can't throw things at people, you can't follow someone on the street screaming at them... all of these things can be mitigated by "just moving away", but it's not the victim's responsibility, especially when there's absolutely no necessity for the person violating the rules/norms to do so.

It objectively hasn't made the game even a tiny bit less toxic and you can mute/ignore them and never have to deal with them again. Is the ban system really about toxicity or is it about enforcing your control over anonymous people.

It's about toxicity. Most players who are permanently banned leave the game. Nobody will deny that there are some "serial toxic" players who keep coming back on new accounts and continue being toxic - but you can't say it's not helping at all when some players do leave the game.

AeroWaffle7/22/2019, 11:19:22 PM8 votes

League's Ban System doesn't work. League is considered the most toxic major online gaming community despite spending massive amounts of time on "fixing" player behavior. This is because Riot is a fundamentally toxic company. They've been outed as having some of the worst company culture of the major gaming firms.

Things like rampant sexism and homophobia, rape threats, and executive bullying are all commonplace in the Riot community. You just have to look at the recent events with Riot to see it.

Despite years of refinements every game of League is toxic. Every game players flame eachother in chat and very frequently people intentionally grief eachother.

Acceptable behavior in a game is a different matter than the behavior problems in the workplace at Riot.

Riot has been caught releasing fake data to support their failing ban system.

When? Where?

Riot won't ever suffer consequences for their garbage system because they were the first major moba company. They have too many resources and too much of a market share to ever worry about the market punishing them for their issues. If you enjoy mobas you're stuck with Riot.

No you're not. Dota 2 is still kicking strong, as is Smite.

If you want a better community stop banning people for verbal abuse except in cases of targeted harassment. There is a mute system and if youre worried about getting bullied online and dont use it, you're part of the problem. You don't want to not be bullied, you want to have the power to control other's behavior.

No. I'm tired of this excuse. Just because people have the capability to mute doesn't absolve them over the responsibility of their own behavior. Tired of people acting like assholes and expecting to not be held responsible as one.

Allot more resources to detecting griefing, inting, and AFKs and punish those.

A vast majority of the chat behavior punishments are automated. Detecting trolling is not a matter of just pushing more money or computer power at the problem. It's a fundamental problem with making sure people are not punished incorrectly.

zPOOPz7/23/2019, 12:37:32 AM5 votes

Riot has been caught releasing fake data to support their failing ban system.

Going to need some cited sources on this if you're going to make a big deal out of news medias.

Upgrades7/23/2019, 12:36:49 AM4 votes

You say dont ban verbal abuse unless its targeted, but isnt verbally abusing someone always targeted? What would be considered verbal abuse without it being directed at someone?

EvilDustMan7/23/2019, 12:14:10 AM1 votes

There has been strong circumstantial evidence in the past that Riot is harsher on repeat offenders. It could just be that repeat offenders are more toxic though.

OneMustFall7/23/2019, 4:51:19 AM1 votes

It's about toxicity. Most players who are permanently banned leave the game. Nobody will deny that there are some "serial toxic" players who keep coming back on new accounts and continue being toxic - but you can't say it's not helping at all when some players do leave the game.

Aside from your other points which are pretty spot on, do you actually have evidence of this out of curiosity? I have seen way too many players claim to have been permabanned before as they're unleashing a flaming barrage on their teammates. Being that it's a free game, I doubt permabanning cause many players to leave the game at all. In fact, creating a new account and buying more skins seems to be almost encouraged by Riot. If Riot really wanted to stop toxic players from continuing to play their game, they would hardware ban people but they don't do that.