Boards›Player Behavior

Chat Restriction System: Anything Someone Doesn't Like Is Toxic

koochario·11/23/2018, 2:04:03 AM·23 votes·4,855 views

This has happened multiple times now. Arguing a point with anyone over any length of time beyond a simple comment is just a recipe for a chat restriction. It's not about harassing anyone. Even just responding to someone's argument about how I should jungle (asking me to spend time ganking for my Shen when he's facing a Garen) is rewarded with a chat restriction.

If I vehemently oppose their argument and provide evidence (without ever resorting to personal attacks), it gets punished anyway over a sufficient number of games. This system is just the worst ever. It is punishment through consensus and not via any rational standards. Someone doesn't like that you say their position is illogical and then you provide the reasons why that's not correct gameplay -> they get annoyed and call you an idiot/ask for reports -> you get chat restricted and perhaps they do too. This is way overblown and overbearing. I literally can't strongly disagree with someone on purely gameplay matters even in preseason games. It's way beyond just stopping verbal abuse. It is at the point where no argument is allowed of any sort because if people don't like you for it (very expected when you're disagreeing with your team and are in the minority), you're screwed.

There is no fairness in it and no oversight. There is no impartial third party and no standard of conduct. Anything people don't like gets punished. Even the logs provided are nearly useless because they deny context so nothing makes sense. They could easily provide annonymized context so that someone could actually understand what you're responding to. Listening to half the conversation just magnifies misinterpretations and of course someone externally is always looking for confirmation of toxicity too. I'm not claming lashing out is OK because they provoked you. The point is that you can't even undersand the conversation and context of what's being said without seeing both sides. It's about intelligibility. So many things can sound toxic without context even when there's absolutely nothing remotely toxic when the conversation is understood. Even a comma can totally change the meaning of some sentences, let alone actually not getting half or more of the conversation.

If this system evaluated GOOD journalists, it would probably punish most because they are willing to go against the grain and look for the truth even if it means disagreeing with powerful interests or society at large. The same would be true for so many types of people who have done nothing but good for society. It is literally punishing disagreement for the sake of it. It is no longer just punishing verbal abuse or harassment. It's like the saying “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” That's what it's designed to do now and it's a mockery of the good intentions originally behind this system.

Everyone agrees that harassment and verbal abuse should be reduced but now, merely the act of being a minority viewpoint in a conversation which you didn't even initiate is all it takes. I'd have to back down from my position and be inauthentic so my team doesn't report me or I'd have to refrain from using chat at all. Is that what Riot wants? Total disengagement? Everyone simply choosing to no longer voice any disagreement or criticism for threat that if enough people dislike you for it, you'll even get an official chat restriction slapped on top of it as a reward? This is how it is now.

If I strongly disagree about something, I'd either have to present my position in an extremely mild manner instead of saying for instance "ganking top is never correct here because we have zero kill pressure" or simply not communicate and mute their spam pings. These are the types of comments I get chat restricted for and I realize my top lane Shen isn't going to like to hear that but I am not allowed to present a strong opinion with evidence? I'm not running peace talks in the middle east. It's purely a gameplay comment and I think entirely correct with a weak early game jungler vs a full HP Garen.

As far as logs, I don't see it as helpful. I prefer to be anonymous when criticizing the system because this isn't about me. I don't need random people without even a clue as to what we're talking about in the game (no context of the game, no context of matchups, no context of what they're typing to me) to chime in with their confirmation bias and focus on that rather than the systemic issues highlighted. I am being 100% truthful. There was no personal attack and it was all gameplay related but typed with conviction, as the comment illustrated above. If I think a call is completely wrong, I will say it. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try it on one of your accounts. Actually say what you disagree with when someone tells you to do x, y, z as jungle. Provide your logic but don't hide behind sugar coating. If you think a gank makes no sense, type it. For example, "ganking for Ezreal-Janna vs Lucian-Braum makes no sense no matter how many times you ping. We have no CC to do anything." These are the types of comments that the system will punish with time because people are annoyed when you don't acknowledge their opinions as equally valid even if they're nonsensical. I don't care about being liked but I don't think my account should be punished just because people don't like me for being direct.

29 Comments

ModPeriscope11/23/2018, 5:49:44 AM6 votes

I think excessive arguing isn't helpful. I can understand that it's different from other negative logs, for three reasons:

  • They are not presented along with other stressors from the game, such as cs'ing, pinging spells, MIAs, and targeting objectives.
  • Muting quickly solves your individual issue with the problematic player
  • They aren't typically insulting and berating another player, which I'd say is 90% of the time what you see on the PB board.

So there's been at least one player this year who was persistently arguing with another teammate on my team this year. Nothing negative, but nothing useful was said either, so I muted them. Problem solved? No, because I could still see another player answering back and forth with muted player. This other player wasn't spamming chat as much, and wasn't all that negative, so they weren't muted. But I could tell from them standing for periods of time that they were distracted. They weren't playing their best.

Excessive arguing isn't the worst thing in League, but it is entirely unnecessary and at times negatively impacts the game, I think mostly in the form of distracting players from objectives and calls in game. If you think there's a bad call, then say so, but I don't think it needs to be the majority of your communication. Better yet, if there's a better call coming up, you should be directing your communication that way. You can't change the past; focus on the future and you'll be gold.

disregardable11/23/2018, 3:12:33 AM5 votes

I've never seen chat logs that didn't criticize anyone or weren't negative, and even without you providing your chat logs I can tell that was true for you. If you won't post your chat logs, that just shows you know you were toxic and don't want to hear it.

ganking for Ezreal-Janna vs Lucian-Braum makes no sense no matter how many times you ping. We have no CC to do anything

first of all this is just wrong, especially if they're under turret. Janna has a ton of cc. Second, there's a difference between being direct and being mean. This is mean.

mlm olo mlm11/23/2018, 2:54:11 AM5 votes

Good luck.

C9 Aphrolift11/23/2018, 3:28:51 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Okay so let's take a different perspective here. If you were coaching a hockey team in the middle of a competitive game, and two players stopped skating in the middle of the rink to have a lengthy chat about why what one of them just did was bad... would you consider that acceptable?

League of Legends isn't a hockey game though. You're frequently either: basing, walking back to a lane or waiting to respawn. During these periods if you're attempting to communicate some things it's more like discussing what you should do in hockey during a time out.

That said, I think excessive arguing isn't helpful. In fact any excessive typing is usually not good. Here's an example:

Instead of typing something like: "Guys, there are two dead enemies and their jungle briefly showed in the bot lane 10 seconds ago we should immediately make our way to baron and burst it down as fast as possible because even though it is pretty early in game(let's say 23:00 minute mark) I think there is a good chance we will get it uncontested as we have fairly good baron damage, one mountain drake & enemy team reaction is unlikely without a ward. We are down a bit of gold and we probably won't get another chance like this as we just got two important picks on their team and they will probably make this type of mistake again." (in fact by the time most people finish typing and/or reading something like this the opportunity would have already passed)

it should look more like: "baron now!" followed by a single assist ping.

Projectile Vomit11/23/2018, 4:53:47 AM3 votes

Do you really expect people to take your word without seeing the chat logs?

Just remove your name off of them if you have to

Unless you said something bad, there should be no reason to hide them, Right?

Mavloc11/27/2018, 12:04:26 PM2 votes

There is no discretion. No one knows where the line is drawn. They just keep pushing and pushing what is considered toxic. The result will be complete and total silence in-game

Vanilla Trubbs11/27/2018, 8:55:15 AM2 votes

Why does this only have 9 upvotes and not 9,000?

IanSilang11/23/2018, 2:40:13 PM1 votes

You're playing a league game so there's not enough time to discuss. Just try to keep your side of the chat as productive as possible. If someone is questioning you then ignore them. The chat is used to discuss cheese strategies that pings can't convey, such as a coordinated invade or baiting baron. You are part of the toxicity if you let it get to you because you distract your other teammates. Also, why did you say it's not about you but you said you don't think you should be punished?

MinorityPharaohs11/26/2018, 6:29:18 AM1 votes

everything you said is how i felt about this game cant say i agree with it 100% i give it 99% people needs to stand up against this fail system, only matter of time people will wake up and stop being a sheep letting whatever the game creator doing to us, yes we are playing the game they created however, without us they are nothing as well. people have the power they need to realize it