Boards›Player Behavior

"Feeding" is not an insult

The Ecdysiast··5 votes·765 views

If you by chance don't now normal video game terminology, and find it offensive when someone points out the fact you are feeding, then you need to go onto google and search up all the terms you're unfamiliar with for such games.

Examples of phrases that are by no means toxic or reportable, "bot is feeding," "the enemy bot lane is fed" "our top laner fed the enemy's" "the jungler has fed a lane"

There is only one objective meaning to these words: someone was killed by an enemy multiple times.

Any assumption that this implies harassment is completely subjective, and not admissible as reason to report a player. You are responsible for any emotions that arise from your incorrect interpretation of clear gaming terms. It also makes you look like a pansy when you whine about it.

Edit: To address the counterargument that it's harassment if it's used that way: no, it is not. Even if used in conjunction with other things, like, "wow, you should uninstall the game and kys," then the mention that they fed is still not the part that is harassment. If a player is mentioning k/d/a in an attempt to hurt someone's feelings, then it's most likely other things they say will in fact be against the rules. But simply mentioning it is by no means harassment. And here's the nail in the coffin as proof that it doesn't just become harassment because you feel it is: https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player "2) DO NOT REPORT A SUMMONER FOR USING STRONG BUT NON-DEROGATORY TERMS TO EMPHASIZE AN EVENT IN THE GAME" The example given is, "that tower fucked my harder than the entire Demacian navy."

Repeating the fact does not make it derogatory. Additional words may be derogatory, like if you add to it by saying, "you fucking suck at Tristana, how did you feed an adc Darius?" But "Tristana fed Darius," is not. Riot removed the Spam report a while ago, so even spamming dragon's respawn timer when your jungler missed the smite is not harassment. Even if your jungler thinks it is.

38 Comments

Makior724 votes

Context is important too thought. For instance if someone says our top fed, that is factual yes and by itself not an insult. But when it is stated repeatedly throughout a match as is often the case, that can definitely be harassment.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

It's still not harassment. It's spam and the spam report has since been removed. Just because it is repeated does not make it harassment.

Rewt4 votes

Saying it once or twice isnt harrassment, but if you keep saying it constantly. You are harrassing the player about the fact that he did poorly. While you arent Outright saying "This guy is shit" you are constantly eluding to it. Once is a Fact. Twice is later on reinforcement. 3 on is harrassment

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Spamming the chat with game information is not harassment. That includes spamming pings on a player or spamming dragon's respawn timer (whether or not your jungler just missed the smite and got it stolen) which under your unreasonable logic would be exactly the same.

And the spam report has long since been removed, so there's no punishment applicable.

Chønklord1 votes

Spamming the chat with game information is not harassment. That includes spamming pings on a player.

Incorrect. Spamming chat is punishable, as is spam directed at a player, such as pings or their death timer etc.

It's harassment when used in a spammable fashion, because you are detracting from that player's overall ability to focus and enjoy the game -- or purposefully attempting to frustrate them if they are performing poorly. I.e. harassment.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

It is not. Spam is no longer a report and is not harassment. A player can mute you if they feel what you have to say detracts from their game, even if all you're doing is saying knock-knock jokes pertaining to their champion.

It's up to players to use the mute function at their own discretion-- but it is not up to them to redefine completely objective terms. This is a multiplayer game, after all. If you aren't ready to interact with anonymous strangers on the internet in game then you should be playing a single-player game.

Chønklord1 votes

Just a quick 2 second search, picked a random topic.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/qMoTlNMT-obnoxious-ping-spam-reportable-offense?comment=000100000000

Also, the mute function isn't a catch-all for toxicity nor is it an excuse to be toxic or use harassment.

Just because you can mute someone, doesn't mean that they're free to say or do what they please; they're still punishable for things like ping spam, chat spam, verbal abuse, role / lane stealing, etc.

Rewt1 votes

Saying "bot lane Fed" is standard information yes, but if you keep harping on it you are harrassing them. and you said that spamming pings isnt harassment. Trust me it is. If someone dies and you spam ? ping on them. That is harassment.

There are times that the ? spam ping can be in good fun, but if you are doing it while also saying that they fed. All together comes out to being harassment. And when you keep doing it it is 100% reportable.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

There's a mute button to use if you feel like the information a player is typing is distracting from you game. It doesn't matter how many times they say it or what it is, or even if it pertains to you. You're obliged to use the mute function if you feel that way. But you are not given the right to redefine objective game terminology to suit your personal feelings.

And soon, player pings will be able to be muted as well. Also as an indirect result of the spam report being removed.

Rewt1 votes

If you are constantly harping on the fact that someone fed it becomes harassment. Saying it once or twice as information is fine. But if keep doing it you are harassing them.

Since you just dont seem do get it im going to give you an example.

Bot lane goes 0/3. You say bot lane fed. Gives the team a heads up. All good. not a problem. a bit later Varus wins a teamfight. Someone says its because Varus got fed. Ok not a problem. You lose dragon because Varus melted it. "bot lane fed" NOW it becomes a problem. Its no longer info. Everyone knows that varus is ahead. You are now harassing the botlane and pushing the blame for the game not going in your favor onto the botlane. While yes they are partially responsible constantly harping on people is just wrong, Its harassment and you need to stop.

TrulyBland1 votes

Just because it's repeated doesn't make it harassment. Just like just the word itself doesn't make it harassment. Not even just the intention behind the words or the interpretation of the words make it harassment.

You look at each of the individual parts rather than the big picture. That makes no sense when it comes to objectively well defined terms (otherwise water could only possibly have qualities that either hydrogen or oxygen have), it makes even less sense when looking at subjective terms like "harassment" in the context of language; which is even more weird to define properly, given that it constantly changes (see the term "literally" as an example)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Your example doesn't fit the situation at all. If you look at the actual whole, then any and all chat is just a part of the game. You sign up to either deal with other players or mute them at the start as soon as you go into a game. But what you're attempting to say is that the "whole" consists solely of the hurt player, their performance, and the objectively neutral terms used. Which is too narrow to be fair when they should know from experience what people on the internet are mean.

Those three things, even together, do not make it harassment. As far as punishment goes for words, it must be done on a completely objective purpose. The words themselves decide the meaning. Legal agreements are written so that the writing decides the agreement regardless of anything spoken out loud, so that there is something to refer to that both parties must agree upon.

It is unfair to the speaker to add the other player's misconstrued feelings to the definition of the terms. As an opposing example, players have been permanently banned for using the n-word in a completely joking way. But the use of that word at all is hate speech, from an objective standpoint.

Chønklord2 votes

It depends on how the word "feeding" is used, of course.

If you say to your top laner who is 0-4 and struggling "hey you f%%%ot stop feeding", punishable.

If you say "hey xx, try to play safe and not feed your laner so much, just play under turret and we'll be able to manage better in teamfights", not punishable.

If you say "wow this guy's feeding his ass off", punishable.

If you say "their top laner is fed, play around it", not punishable.

It's all in the context of the word.

Which, if I am to understand correctly, the IFS does parse the context for the entirety of each game's chat logs.

The context that is not considered (because it has no descernable impact), is the context for the logs given to the player who is punished. I.e., Riot determines the meaning and context of a flagged player's words, and makes a judgment on that player. If it determines there is sufficient levels of toxicity, it'll issue a penalty. At that point, the chat logs given to the player don't matter when it comes to the context between that player and everyone else; if the system has already determined you're toxic, then you were toxic.

TrulyBland1 votes

Okay, fine, let's go with this example then: You follow around a co-worker that is overweight and keep telling them "You're overweight." Is that harassment? I mean, overweight is an objectively neutral term, isn't it? Harassment is not about the words that are used. You can harass people without using any words; so why would specific words matter?

Hell, the N-word is strictly speaking just a crude americanization of the spanish word for black. The way people said it, and the context in which it was said are the reason why now people only refer to it as the N-word because even just mentioning the word in a neutral context with a neutral intention might make people uncomfortable due to the negative connotation it now holds. It started out as an objectively neutral word, and the way this word was used is the reason why now you would not consider it an objectively neutral word any longer.

Denying that the way you use words matters is denying a major part of how language works.

Blåbæret3 votes

Agree.

MagicFlyingLlama3 votes

It is an insult when it is used as one.

Semantics wont get anyone off the hook if they are flaming or harassing someone.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

No, actually it's not. The words themselves determine the meaning. IF they have actually harassed someone in addition to this phrasing, then they're liable to be punished. If not, then it's not up to the feeding player to incorrectly apply meaning to the words.

MagicFlyingLlama2 votes

Semantics wont get you off. Neither will personal opinion about what you think is right. Majority opinion over personal opinion. This is how society works. If you dont like it, conform or get out (or just cry about how unfair it is that you are not special and favored).

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Check out what I added to the OP. You're still wrong in this case, and if someone is wrongfully punished when they've in fact said nothing that is objectively harassment they have riot's own support page as proof.

Opinion has no play in this. The facts must be objective. That's how society works.

Chønklord2 votes

Majority opinion over personal opinion. This is how society works.

Actually, it's not. Not when the majority opinion is incorrect either morally, scientifically, or otherwise.

conform or get out

You would have done well as part of the Inquisition back in the middle ages.

Then again, if everyone thought like you did, we'd still be there.

MagicFlyingLlama1 votes

Good point. I was going to mention that, but i felt it would be going a bit off-topic.. Most of the time society is right, when it is everyone vs one person that thinks they deserve special treatment.

Needless to say, i dont think this guy is going to convince society with his opinions.

Jo0o2 votes

You're broadly correct, but that doesn't mean it can't piss somebody off.

If I'm 0/3 or 0/4 and getting camped, pointing out that I'm feeding could be tilting and doesn't especially help me out.

I mean, what's your intent at pointing out that somebody is feeding? If there's a strategic purpose for sharing that information, then by all means. But if you just want to make somebody feel bad while outside the reach of the report system... then you're kinda a dick.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

If it pisses you off, that's on you. Regardless of the situation, up-to-date information about the state of the game is not harassment. If you're easily tilted by that information, then muting everyone all the time before the match starts is an option.

Jo0o2 votes

I'm still not convinced of your motivation, though.

Do you honestly have a strategic purpose for identifying who is fed? I generally find it obvious during a game, and the fact that you've made this thread implies to me that you're quite prolific in your commentary on how poorly your teammates are doing. Perhaps I'm just getting the wrong impression from your posts, though.

RallerenP2 votes

I think OP means that simply mentioning that a lane is fed(to play around that fact) is kind of like reminding your team of an impending drake. It's obvious information, but people often miss it.

But if you just mention that a lane is feeding to piss someone off, then it is reportable.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Exactly. It's just like mentioning that the dragon's cry means it just died and you should not go towards the pit.

However, it is not reportable under any circumstances. If someone intends to piss another player off, then OTHER things they say will probably be harassment.

Jo0o1 votes

Okay seriously, what prompted you to make this thread?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Just the odd amount of people in game and on the boards who misconstrue game info/advice/strategic plans as harassment and feel empowered by the report system when they contribute to a wrongful punishment.

Jo0o1 votes

Okay, but how often are wrongful punishments given out? If you've looked at these forums, you'll virtually NEVER see somebody vindicated for a wrongful punishment.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

It's not about punishments. It is about people learning how to be carried, and not making out their teams attempts to communicate and create a recovery to be personal attacks.

RallerenP1 votes

The system can distinguish between saying something strategically and negatively. Just like saying GGEZ isn't punishable on its own, but can definently contribute to a punishment.

So yes, doing it to solely piss people off is reportable, and while it might not get you punished alone, it will be a factor for the IFS the next time you are reviewed.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

It doesn't contribute to the punishment at all. What will get you punished is the part that actually breaks the rules.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

Of course. People aren't watching everything you do in the game. And it is important not only to know who is fed, but who needs farm. Read my post below.

Nobody cares that you fed, but if top is being reminded that you fed enemy mid you should thank your team for not making your life harder by giving away another kill on top.

Frankly you should be telling your team that you fed your laner when he starts to roam. Communication is the most important part of the game.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

Really? You need to take your team trying to coordinate a recovery less personally. League is a game about Teamwork and Teamwork implies descriptive, quick communication. The keyword being quick. It is extremely toxic to flame or int when your team is trying to think of a way to carry you.

Chønklord2 votes

While I sort of agree with some of your assessment in this post, it's still a very fine and delicate line. Most of the time, pointing out a teammate is feeding is a form of harassment, or becomes harassment.

The reason why, is because there generally no good, valid reason to point out a teammate has been feeding the enemy (unintentionally) to the team or that player.

Now, I do agree with the part of communicating with the team about an enemy player being 'fed', but there's really no reason to start saying the source of the feeding.

It's essentially finger pointing / shaming / blaming.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

It's not a fine and delicate line. It is the single fastest way to get the team to coordinate a recovery. Nobody other than you cares that you are not carrying the game.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

I might add that mentioning that I fed, or someone else fed warns others to counterbuild, etc. This is the primary use.

GreatWhiteNorth1 votes

Wow. Someone deleted my post!

In bronze, I've experienced consistent comebacks from this behaviour. Sometimes it even leads to the jungler ganking the feeding person's lane so they can recover their farming somewhat.

The point is, people who get mad over descriptions of their mistakes are missing the point - these things help the team to coordinate a recovery and the team then will often come up with a solution once the problem is known.

Thresh (support)> Looks like Swain fed Yasuo. (Pings danger on top)

Warwick> Swain just hug turret. (planning to gank but needs easy one cause swain is fed. Remember people don't have much time to type)

Top backs off, avoiding making Swain's life worse.

Now imagine if Swain decides that this communication has anything to do with him, personally. He decides to int, flame and throw. This is toxic. And frankly, people who think they need to carry every game tend to engage in this behaviour either way.

If Swain is sane and listens to Warwick, then warwick is able to set up a strong gank due to swain being by his turret. It doesn't matter who gets the kill, Swain will get time to freefarm and close that gap. And a fed warwick on a cocky yasuo can gank lanes that are doing better and turn the tide of the game.

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