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Can we please expand the definition of intentional feeding?

Yenn··10 votes·734 views

I just had a Diamond player pick Eve in ranked for the first time in a ranked game. Not first time since rework, legitimate first time ever. As soon as the lobby started, they said hovered Eve and 'never played eve, probably going to lose but idc.'

We asked her to practice Eve in normals first and play something else, instead. The response to that was 'lol idc dodge if you dont want to lose.'

Nobody dodges.

The game starts and Eve has no idea what they're doing. She dies to neutral camps at level 3, then proceeds to screw up all of her ganks and goes 0-6-1. We ask her to stop ganking and just farm, and once again this person responds 'lmao u should have dodged, it's your own fault.'

The entire team lost 20 LP because of this player's anti-competitive behavior. The player joined the game, chose a champion, and told us they knew they were going to feed. This is, literally, intentional feeding.

I also had the exact same thing with a Riven earlier today. They decided to practice Riven in ranked, went 0-2-0, asked for a gank, we told them it was too risky and to just play safely. They said 'okay, if you don't gank, i'll just feed' and they literally ran directly into their lane opponent. For the remainder of the game, they kept playing extremely unsafely, and ended up 0-9-1. During this time, they kept typing in chat about how 'they're just learning riven' and 'practicing combos,' and it's 'just a bad game.'

Situations like this should not happen. I should never be in a situation where I'm given the choice of dodging or having a team mate knowingly feed; if that happens, the player who caused the situation should be banned.

Please improve how this is handled. Intentional feeding isn't only buying 6 Tears and running down middle lane; any scenario where you knowingly making a decision that's going to result in you feeding should not be acceptable in ranked.

20 Comments

Chermorg5 votes

Making poor choices is not intentionally feeding. Making poor choices that result in feeding is not intentionally feeding.

Making poor choices is making poor choices. You cannot punish someone for making poor choices.

Yenn7 votes

{quoted}

Making poor choices is not intentionally feeding. Making poor choices that result in feeding is not intentionally feeding.

Making poor choices is making poor choices. You cannot punish someone for making poor choices.

Can you explain to me how making a choice that you know is a poor choice and will result in you feeding is not intentional feeding?

If you want to apply this logic, running down mid lane is also a poor choice that results in feeding. Why is this any different?

Chermorg4 votes

Nobody sits there and says "hmm, if I play this champion, I'm going to feed".

You are insinuating that they somehow knew they'd absolutely suck at the champion before they played that game, which would require a crystal ball. If they made a poor decision, as in playing a champ they haven't played before/recently/a lot, that's not intentionally saying "I'm going to feed".

It's like the difference between going out and driving your car into a tree, and just happening to be out driving when you get in an accident. One of those is intentional. The other one, yeah, driving could result in an accident, so you just shouldn't drive, right?

Yenn5 votes

{quoted}

Nobody sits there and says "hmm, if I play this champion, I'm going to feed".

You are insinuating that they somehow knew they'd absolutely suck at the champion before they played that game, which would require a crystal ball. If they made a poor decision, as in playing a champ they haven't played before/recently/a lot, that's not intentionally saying "I'm going to feed".

It's like the difference between going out and driving your car into a tree, and just happening to be out driving when you get in an accident. One of those is intentional. The other one, yeah, driving could result in an accident, so you just shouldn't drive, right?

Have you ever played ranked at Diamond+? This absolutely does happen, and I just gave you an example of it happening. I've seen this twice today, alone.

The player was fully aware that they did not know how to play Eve. They explicitly told us, unprompted, that they were going to feed. They were fully aware that they were going to feed because they were trying it out in a high rated game.

These are not normal games at Silver. These are high rated ranked games, where most players are trying their hardest to win and climb the ladder. The two cannot, and should not, be treated the same.

I would be very surprised if you can find a single Diamond+ player who thinks they can try out a brand new champion in ranked and not do poorly. Even giving the benefit of the doubt, the players who do this usually verbally acknowledge that they're very likely going to feed, yet still make the decision to do it.

Chermorg3 votes

The rules in League apply to all ranks equally, and Riot does not single certain ranks out for punishments differently than they do other ranks.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

The rules in League apply to all ranks equally, and Riot does not single certain ranks out for punishments differently than they do other ranks.

Which is something that should be changed, but it's irrelevant to this entire post, which I clarified at the bottom of my post (i.e. players who you think are doing this unintentionally actually type out that they know what they're doing). I just used it to enforce the original point.

Please stop trying to derail my thread.

LankPants3 votes

I agree, the rules should apply equally at all ranks. Picking a champ for the first time ever in ranked at any rank should not be acceptable.

Silent Gravity1 votes

If they play poorly in ranked for any reason, the punishment is decreasing in MMR/rank over time.

gabetheguy2 votes

{quoted}

Nobody sits there and says "hmm, if I play this champion, I'm going to feed".

but that's exactly what evelynn did. did you not read the post?

Jo0o4 votes

How do you enforce this? As Chermorg said, you can't punish folks for making bad choices.

Let's say I've been outplayed by my lane opponent, and am 0-3 to their 3-0. But I return to lane, and they're at 40% health. I charge in, thinking I have a solid shot at a shut down, but I get outplayed once again and narrowly killed. Am I intentionally feeding?

Look, your second example is a clear case of feeding: Riven ran it down the lane and gave kills intentionally. That's obviously punishable. But the Eve game? That Eve player failed to play to the best of their ability and got wrecked for it, but it's hard to fault somebody for daring to play a champ that they aren't already an expert on. Everybody's got to learn some time, and for a diamond player, bots and norms may simply not be effective practice for them.

It's fair to wish for your whole team to want to win the game and play to the best of their ability, especially in ranked, but in practice, this is a video game. You can't specifically check each person before the game to see if their heart is in it, or that they're well-rested, sober, not distracted, etc. And similarly, you can't punish somebody based on their feelings during a game.

My condolences for your LP loss. Not much to be done about it, though.

Magical Player2 votes

Kinda the "you have to prove they we're doing it intentionally". Which is a catch 22 since nobody will actively admit to intentionally feeding thus its a bad choice that results in a bad game You can believe they had the intention of feeding, but that is an opinion and riot doesn't condemn on opinions

Cornerstone12 votes

Of course the Eve had a bad game!!!! It was pretty much guaranteed Eve would have a bad game if this was the first time she was played. That person had no business playing eve in ranked, and admitted that he would probably end up feeding. This is one of those few cases that needs to be punished on the "spirit of the law", not necessarily on the "letter of the law".

Douglas Funnie1 votes

The Eve was just having a bad game, everyone has bad games.

Telephone Booth1 votes

Unfortunately, the playing eve first time knowing that you will "probably" lose, is just being wise. They knew it wasn't an optimal choice, but never stated it was his intention to feed. Can't really punish that :/

Maybe Riot needs to enforce not playing a champ for the first time in ranked. I know it's just a game, but they can go to norms and still play the exact same game there with their new champ.

scazzman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Telephone Booth,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QgddQmFf,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-13T23:55:27.743+0000)

Unfortunately, the playing eve first time knowing that you will "probably" lose, is just being wise. They knew it wasn't an optimal choice, but never stated it was his intention to feed. Can't really punish that :/

Maybe Riot needs to enforce not playing a champ for the first time in ranked. I know it's just a game, but they can go to norms and still play the exact same game there with their new champ.

easy fix. make it so you have to have at least mastery 3 with any champ before playing them in ranked. also. new or heavily reworked champions are restricted to normals for the 1st week of release

Šternberg1 votes

Having a bad game, playing a champion for the first time or playing tahm kench adc with cleanse/ignite isn't considered trolling. Losing duels over and over again is not inting because he is "trying". So having bad games is not inting. So trolling is too easy.

Yenn1 votes

Just had something similar happen again.

Our support wanted Kayle, but our top picked Kayle first. The support locked in Miss Fortune and told us 'im trolling, dodge if you don't want to lose.' This player built pure AP (no support items, no Sightstone) and actively tried to take CS from the ADC for the entire game.

Any behavior that intentionally tries to sabotage a game should result in a ban.

Yenn1 votes

Three games in a row.

Our Quinn was 0-4-4 and no longer wanted to play the game, because they had no kills and were behind. When we refused to surrender, they started intentionally feeding while saying 'lol i'm just having a bad game.' Looking at their match history, this isn't an isolated incident.

This is -60 LP caused by players who shouldn't even be allowed to queue for ranked.

Yenn1 votes

https://i.imgur.com/o2LwQaE.jpg

Nidalee died 3 times early, and we refused to surrender, so she went AFK at the fountain. Someone said to report her for being AFK, so she spent the rest of the game running down bottom lane. This needs to be considered intentional feeding.

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