Is Context Not Taken Into Account When Viewing Reports?

kingdraeboy·Jan 27, 2018·2 votes·467 views

First off: I deserve my ban. I said things I shouldn't have and I'm not some child that's come to whine in the boards hoping to find sympathy or get his ban removed. I did what I did and I'll serve my 14 day suspension.

Now onto the real topic: So you know how when you're banned how you get the chat logs that show you what you said to earn the ban? I've always found it funny how they show just what you and only you said. No reference to the other nine players in the game. Sure it shows the couple times you swore at the end of the game in frustration but doesn't show that laner you had that was making all kinds of profane and hateful remarks all game.

The specific game that I received my ban afterwards was one in which my bot lane consisted of a MF support with heal/flash and nasus adc (I guess?) with flash/ghost. I said nothing at the start despite obviously suspecting a troll (the nasus assured me before the game that he was "diamond") and sure enough within 10 minutes they were already a combined 2/5. To make a long story short they ended the game at 7/26. 7/26. Not really inting scores but beyond bad. The scores themselves weren't the issue so much as the content of their chat throughout the game. As a jungler everything became my fault by default. They'd push the lane, get ganked, die. Respawn, push the lane, get ganked, and die. All the while flaming and flaming and flaming.

They said I didn't gank

Then that I didn't gank enough when I actually did gank (successfully btw)

And then it wasn't even about the ganks anymore but became about how the mf had played a bunch of games and had a 55% win rate and how that somehow proved that I was terrible?

It was all very frustrating and again I'm not justifying what I said or did. I didn't mute, I obviously should've, I responded in an argumentive manner because I really don't enjoy having people walk all over me especially when I'm actually playing well and trying my hardest to help the team win (I ended 5/3/6, and reminder they ended: 7/26 and that this is my fault?) I even looked to members of my team for help the top laner agreed that our bot lane fed quite hard. Then the mf starts swearing quite a bit along with the kind of insults you'd expect from a kid in elementary school. Even in /allchat members of the other team were saying that I did in fact gank and that they did pushup making it easy to gank them, and even agreed to report them after the game both for their scores and the new level of toxcitiy that they (specifically the mf) were now displaying even in /allchat.

The game ends. I send reports on the pair of them and they stick around in the lobby spamming the chat room telling me how awful I am, how the game was my fault. And ironically that in order to improve I should "focus on your own mistakes" (as the 7/26 bot lane lectures me on how to play).

I get a message popup. My account has been banned for two weeks.

Once again: I deserve the ban that's not what I'm arguing here. But surely however handling player discipline works takes into context the entire chat of the game? Do they honestly look at just my chat without a thought for what might have provoked it or how the other nine players in the game were acting?

I will serve my ban and get back to climbing but I am absolutely shocked that someone who typed in chat more than I did, someone who swore a heck of a lot more than I did, and whose attitude at no point of the game ever indicated they were actually trying to win will be completely ignored and unpunished while I'm sitting idle for the next two weeks.

Nearly everything that I've said during my time playing League that can be labelled as toxic was in response to some equally toxic person on my team and the sheer stupidity they typed into chat. It takes two to make an argument and yet as far as I can tell I'm the only one being punished here.

There must be some way in which player discipline takes in to account all the players involved? That they make sure all guilty parties are hit with warnings or bans? If not that just seems really unfair and a bad way to go about handling toxicity in League.

12 Comments

Umbral RegentJan 27, 20182 votes

Just to preface - I'm multitasking a game and the forums here, so I really only skimmed over the fluff for relevant information, but if I missed over anything key, please feel free to tell me.

So, the two major points I saw was "context relevant to punishment" and "solitary punishment with multiple punishable players", I'll clear up the latter one first and foremost:

The only prerequisite to a review and punishment is that a report is filed against a player. And, thankfully, I saw you said you did report the two post-game - you very likely won't get a message telling you they've been punished, but rest assured, they'll get their due. And, odds are high they may ultimately wind up asking a very similar question regarding context.

Often enough, I see people come to these forums protesting their punishment on the grounds that "other players in the match were toxic too, but only I get punished", which unfortunately boils down to either the player trying to deflect their issues onto someone else, or the player displaying an unfortunate lack of information about punishments and discretion - and, the worst of those cases involve players complaining about other toxic players only to say they didn't report anyone.

Thankfully, this is neither case.

As for context relevant to punishment, there are two general things I've heard in regards to it;

Often mentioned by forum moderators, is that during the old tribunal system, flamers were virtually always punished regardless of if someone else had started it, leading to the IFS being developed to only issue punishments on the basis of the reported player's own chat.
A more generalized and simplified version comes in the form of a variety of PB Boards sayings - two wrongs don't make a right, there's no context in which flaming is appropriate, etc.

And, that's roughly the gist of it - the IFS only punishes players based on their chat in isolation, and as such only provides them their chat and theirs alone. It all boils down to the rules stating that flaming is a no-go, and that generally, nobody likes dealing with a flamer, and that goes doubly-so for dealing with two or three flamers.

All said, I hope I covered things appropriately enough. I'm sorry to hear about your recent ban, but I'm also glad you've come to terms with it. Hopefully the coming months should see you in better standing.

Unreformed ShacoJan 27, 20182 votes

Riot are literal donkeybrains and think context doesn't matter.

Nearly every country in the world, even the shithole ones, have a justice system designed purely to look at context.

The key difference between real justice and (((Riot))) justice, is money.

Real world, you send someone to jail and the state loses money. Riot world, you permaban someone and you make money.

AnastaeciaJan 27, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QMd53hZL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-27T09:10:10.683+0000)

Riot are literal donkeybrains and think context doesn't matter.

Nearly every country in the world, even the shithole ones, have a justice system designed purely to look at context.

The key difference between real justice and (((Riot))) justice, is money.

Real world, you send someone to jail and the state loses money. Riot world, you permaban someone and you make money.

Yea money is the difference, BECAUSE RIOT IS A COMPANY. They do not ban you to make you make a new account and rebuy skins. They ban you so you don't offend the other 9 players into leaving the game, so Riot DOESN'T LOSE money.

Unreformed ShacoJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yea money is the difference, BECAUSE RIOT IS A COMPANY. They do not ban you to make you make a new account and rebuy skins. They ban you so you don't offend the other 9 players into leaving the game, so Riot DOESN'T LOSE money.

No one quits LoL until they want to quit. If they get perma'd, they just make a new account and usually boosts or a few skins. If they gave a shit about protecting other players they would

A. Force censor certain words. Not hard, other games do it. B. IP/Hardware ban. They do it for forum accounts, why not in game?

I'm not saying Riot isn't a company, but to act like they are doing it for the community is wrong, when all they want to do is line their pockets.

AnastaeciaJan 27, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QMd53hZL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T09:25:45.156+0000)

No one quits LoL until they want to quit. If they get perma'd, they just make a new account and usually boosts or a few skins. If they gave a shit about protecting other players they would

A. Force censor certain words. Not hard, other games do it. B. IP/Hardware ban. They do it for forum accounts, why not in game?

I'm not saying Riot isn't a company, but to act like they are doing it for the community is wrong, when all they want to do is line their pockets.

A) They do censor words. You know that thing called the chat filter, that is turned ON by default. B) Riot already stated, they don't expect players to come back after being banned. IF they love the game enough to make a new account, Riot has no control over their behavior. If they spend money, I'm sure Riot is happy about that too. But to say they purposely ban people to make money is stupid. There would have been a class action lawsuit long ago.

I never said they did it for the community...they do it so the community doesn't leave and take their money with them.

scazzmanJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A) They do censor words. You know that thing called the chat filter, that is turned ON by default. B) Riot already stated, they don't expect players to come back after being banned. IF they love the game enough to make a new account, Riot has no control over their behavior. If they spend money, I'm sure Riot is happy about that too. But to say they purposely ban people to make money is stupid. There would have been a class action lawsuit long ago.

I never said they did it for the community...they do it so the community doesn't leave and take their money with them.

they play dumb about it so the sheep will stay in line. the tos states that they dont even need a reason to ban you. so you forfeit your right to sue them, but everyone knows the ban system exists soleley for PR. and is geared towards getting you to make a new account. they focus on chat offenders because A. theyre easier to catch B. they make good scapegoats because theyre more likely to complain on the boards, and parents care more about their kid seeing no no words then someone trolling via gameplay C. people who rage in chat tend to be players who get passionate, and are more likely to repurchase content when they make their new account. if a troll makes a new account, theyre probably not going to buy skins

they have token low tier punishments to make it look like theyre encouraging reform. and they found a way to encourage making new accounts with those too with honor zero.

MordiusJan 27, 20181 votes

How other people are behaving doesn't justify you behaving in the same manor. Two wrongs don't make it right.

It only takes 1 report to be flagged by the system. Report and Mute is all that is necessary for them to be punished.

You instead took part in the flaming, and you were punished along with them.

kingdraeboyJan 27, 20181 votes

I never claimed that two wrongs made a right. I stated multiple times what I did was wrong. The point is that there were as you say "two wrongs" and only one of them got punished.

MordiusJan 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I never claimed that two wrongs made a right. I stated multiple times what I did was wrong. The point is that there were as you say "two wrongs" and only one of them got punished.

Where is your proof they were not punished too? Players who do not behave appropriately are punished, as you have witnessed. They may not be punished the same game as you, but if they continue to behave in such a manor, they will.

hshtagniemehrcduJan 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The point is that there were as you say "two wrongs" and only one of them got punished.

You do not know what happened to the other. Further, your previous history is taken into account - someone with a clean account might not get punished for something that another person, who's already been (rightfully) reported multpiple games, will get punished for.

So, you neither know the other person's "flamer history" nor what actually happened to him.

FegoneJan 28, 20181 votes

No, other player's chat should not be considered, and no context should be given. It's fine the way it is. why?

Because it's your report. Your case. Your punishment. It only matters what you did. Not why you did it or who tilted you. Their actions will be looked at in their reports. And yours will be ignored.

AJStarhikerJan 28, 20181 votes

"Context" isn't included because it doesn't matter nearly as much as a lot of people think. Tribunal initially included all players' chat. There was some sympathy for edge cases where a player was provoked, but when they removed others player's chat, they didn't actually see an appreciable difference in voting. And it was still usually easy to see there had been provocation.

When Riot switched to IFS, they used the data gathered. Since players didn't care "who started it", IFS followed that precedence.

And, I'll be honest: I hope someone I reported shows up here to complain. Not because I want them banned, but because then I can tell them I was the quiet player who got annoyed watching them argue all game and reported both him and the 'instigator' afterwards. Even better if the chat logs don't match the game I played so I can tell them it wasn't "just one game" that got them in trouble.