The truth about "Toxic"

SightSh00tReload·2/20/2019, 1:04:57 PM·4 votes·2,439 views
Gyazo

The simple truth is that nobody used to really use the word before, here's an infographic for "toxic behavior" mind you, I checked a few variations (toxic, toxic players, toxic player, etc) and it all starts picking up in the last maybe 3-4 years at best. About t1 running it down mid time.

So a word that's and simply wrong (nobody is litteraly poisonous) is now what dictates every bad talks in chat, some vague word that LITTERALY everyone has a different version of the word. For some it's screaming go kys fa----ot, for some its just getting told "troll vayne report her after game" in all chat.

And what does league does about this? Do they ever clarify? Put in clearer measures, more appropriate punishments? (Like Riot charizard or blastoise i think whoever it was said before, giving a perma chat restrict for people who are just a bit abrasive but still try and tend to just have bad moments instead of banning those players) Cuz the only reason right now this game is still going are....

A: Pros/Pro scene, it wouldn't take long for pros to switch to DOTA if every pro was personality-less like most pro teams outside of NA. Without the Scarras and imaqtpie the pro scene wouldn't have a face. Not to mention that the pro scene would be dead if people didn't wanna become the pro player winning the lcs type thing, heck its the reason people play ranked, because everyone have their lil boy dream of becoming the big famous pro player.

B: "I play it with friends, I mostly play aram" the kind of people who wouldn't give much of a fuck what game they play as long as they can have fun with their friends, not a fanbase that'll stick to this forever.

C: Skin whores, the type of players who spent too much in this game and still do so they pretty much have to die with the ship.

D: The main cast, the Addicts. They've been playing since season 1-2-3 around that time, used to be shit, gotten better along time. Like the crunch of this game (the gameplay and potential of the fighting itself) but despises everything else, the type that could care less about reworking shit or having prestige skins, as long as they get to play their game in peace. But sadly those are also the people that have the most emotions usually, getting salty or butthurt, not flaming or griefing/inting but just the kinda banter you'd see from 2 friends playing smash bros together type of thing. They don't spend nearly as much as the other groups but always end up forced to pay some due to their accounts getting banned for "repeated offenses" even tho those offenses tend to be "I told me 0-15 support he's trash" but repeat that enough times in enough games and you get permabanned same way as some guy who goes 0-30 in 15 min.

E: The inters trollers types. The run it down mid cuz you banned my yas types, The "Say that again u fuck!" and then goes afk after X says one thing he didn't like, bane of the D types and irrelevant to the others. Is what most people refer to when talking about the "toxic community" but just do what they want has they seem to shit out money for a new account whenever they int. Most likely to lose account and remake one just to go troll again.

38 Comments

ModThe Djinn2/20/2019, 1:14:08 PM5 votes

The catch here is that words and definitions change over time. The word "racist" spiked upwards from almost never appearing in written works prior to the 1920's. The word "handicapped" did the same from the 1880's on until it started to get replaced in the 1980's. As behaviors are identified and classified and start receiving a more consistent common definition, their usage to refer to that naturally rises.

In the case of "toxic" to refer to this kind of behavior, yes: 3-4 years ago is probably about when it started gaining more mainstream attention and sort of reached a critical mass of companies and gamers going "this is a term we think is a good match for what we're trying to say."

TrulyBland2/20/2019, 1:27:43 PM5 votes

So a word that's and simply wrong (nobody is litteraly poisonous)

toxic: extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful extremely harsh, malicious or harmful

Some behaviour is harmful for the enjoyment/environment/community of this game (toxic behaviour), some people show a repeating pattern of such behaviour and therefore can be considered harmful influences themselves (toxic players).

Even if that definition didn't already exist, btw, it's not exactly unheard of that words are used in a metaphorical sense. It's not even unheard of that words get a new definition based on what is essentially a cultural inside joke. I defy you to derive the modern use of the word "spam" only from literal definitions of words and nothing else.

Protip: Don't use semantic arguments. Especially if the semantics are not on your side.

Edit: Fun fact, btw, using the word "toxic" to describe poisons doesn't make any literal sense either, seeing as the word derives from the word for "bow" (as in "bow and arrows").

R107 Games2/20/2019, 1:13:10 PM2 votes

Agreed.

The term "toxic" has lost its textbook meaning in this game. Anything that anyone says that annoys you is "toxic". Even Riot themselves consider trivial shit like banter, trash talk, cricitism, sarcasm etc. to be "toxic".

https://amp.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7zplak/player_from_korea_server_opinion_on_the_term/

All of these points got me realizing that the term Toxicity seems to be just a problem in the west. I agreed with my friends social points and of course I understand that every culture is different. However, having returned to Europe in Season 7/8, any single comment I deliver in chat ( not flaming, just criticism) is INSTANTLY classified as toxic and reported.

Simple example was yesterday, where I played a game and a Janna support (plat 4) went 0-3 in 10 minutes. I simply said "bot lane stop fckin dying please, thank you". The response was insane: All chat: REPORT OUR JG TOXIC AND BAD NO HELP

This over-used term is just an insult to actual toxic behavior and only can be used when someone criticizes your game-play

Umbral Regent2/20/2019, 1:20:44 PM2 votes

The simple truth is that nobody used to really use the word before, here's an infographic for "toxic behavior" mind you, I checked a few variations (toxic, toxic players, toxic player, etc) and it all starts picking up in the last maybe 3-4 years at best. About t1 running it down mid time.

And? A solid takeaway from that information would be that toxicity has recently become more of a prevalent concern in the gaming community over the past few years. Either way, that it didn't get used frequently until 4~ years ago doesn't really amount to anything.

So a word that's and simply wrong (nobody is litteraly poisonous)...

Arguing semantics about internet slang also won't amount to anything. If I type "lol", that doesn't mean I'm laughing out loud, and I still physically retain my buttocks despite saying "lmao".

So, let's not fool around with semantics, eh?

...is now what dictates every bad talks in chat, some vague word that LITTERALY everyone has a different version of the word. For some it's screaming go kys fa----ot, for some its just getting told "troll vayne report her after game" in all chat.

Toxicity is a pretty widely-encompassing umbrella term, yes, and many people will have their own different interpretations. But, in regards to Riot's punishment system, their definition of toxicity is what they reference.

And what does league does about this? Do they ever clarify? Put in clearer measures, more appropriate punishments? (Like Riot charizard or blastoise i think whoever it was said before, giving a perma chat restrict for people who are just a bit abrasive but still try and tend to just have bad moments instead of banning those players)

What does Riot do about it? They establish their own expectations for player behavior (it's a pretty low bar), and punish people who break the rules.

Do they clarify what toxicity is? Well, check the ToU and the Summoner's Code. Or, go a step further, and check out the details they have on the Support Site.

You don't have to look hard to find the right information.

As for more appropriate punishments; Permanent chat restrictions are not among them. All permanent chat restrictions did was narrow down the avenues of toxicity to trolling and intentional feeding, which a great many of the players punished to that point ultimately picked up for their inability to flame in chat.


As for the rest, I fail to see how your subjective typifying the playerbase pertains to Player Behavior, so I'll ignore it.

EvilDustMan2/20/2019, 1:22:13 PM2 votes

We could go back to just calling them assholes.

ChaosReyn2/20/2019, 4:18:53 PM2 votes

Not all s1 players are addicts, you know. :P

But nitpicking aside, you still hit the nail on the head for us older players: we don't really care about prestige skins, or most reworks (some of us are very anti-rework, and some of us actually like a few of them a lot...my own bias, screw the Akali rework in particular but most of the rest are fine.) as long as the actual gameplay isn't garbage. But more importantly to your topic: "As long as we can play "our" game in peace." Before getting any further into my rant here, notice I said "our" game in quotations. I personally love to promote the idea of new players being able to have fun playing, and I don't consider this as some sort of exclusive-to-us game, as long as we can all get along. But I admit at by this point, I'm definitely the stereotypical "grumpy old veteran" more that I'd see myself as an "addict", hence my denotation and nitpicking. Not everyone who fits this category is like me, I am probably in the minority in claiming this (as opposed to just outright denial of the term addict and claiming I have no place in the group at all) and you pretty much have to generalize this kind of thing, so I get it. But, since that's my claim, go ahead and catch this "war vet's" tale of woe and my personal take of it, and maybe it'll help at least one of your generalized minorities within this category that actually do care about the game as a whole sympathize more.

My main was perma'd in mid s8...pretty much 8 full seasons of playing the game, and while there is a timer for "repeated offenses" I will hold firm from my own experiences to the point that the fall-off from time between punishments is FAR less than the speed at which they build up, ESPECIALLY in the last few seasons. I do not blame Riot's system for this, more than its blatant and frequent abuse...I'll get more in-depth with that later, but in synopsis, regardless of the reasoning, the system, though not unfair itself, is made to be unfair by how people are in recent seasons.

If I had to pin it down I'd say the majority of my punishments were in two windows. One was in season(s) 2/3 due to my campus wi-fi in college and the league server not getting along well. Basically, I had to load into almost every game twice if on the campus wi-fi...and as a broke college student, it took me a couple of weeks to get a cord. Still had good WinRate despite the setbacks, but LeaverBuster doesn't care about that. So despite me not counting that as people being ridiculous, it still counts on my record. The second started mostly in season 6...I say "mostly" because this one didn't really stop, more than it happened in great waves.

I'll be the first to admit that my account deserved its ban, don't get me wrong. But what generally led up to the perma were essentially moments such as what you're describing in this example: I'd be mostly ok, with the occasional slap on the wrist for saying dumb things once in awhile...but in the later seasons, I found more and more that whenever I had a bad game and told someone to chill when they started in on me for it, they'd immediately start saying I was "toxic, inting and trolling." I'm only human, in a lot of those situations I'd just use the mute button, but in some (especially on days near end of season, when I was JUST short of gold) I would just let them have it, and I was far from pleasant by that point. Same thing if trying to tell someone else to play more passively (in an attempt to stop their 5th death in 12 minutes to a now-fed top or mid), or trying to communicate basically at all with my support/marksmen in those seasons. I mained bot lane - adc or support, as long as I was down there I was half-decent, but I could do something as simple as tell them to "focus on _______" (Strategy that had nothing to do with K/D/A or how good/bad I thought they were) and it was still in like 7/10 games "stfu, stop being toxic, muted/reported."

Uhhhh....what?

Then of course it was followed in like 6 of those 7 games by them pointing out every single "mistake" I made for the rest of the game instead of even attempting to play, which of course breeds more issues.

I was freaking tired of it by the time s8 came around, which is why I got perma'd. I knew it was coming. But I guess in a roundabout way, by that point it was more about me not bowing to people whose first and only line of defense for their bad attitudes was to be the first person to use that gods-forsaken word and smash their report button. I felt like I was losing everything over a bunch of hypersensitive, immature ninnies, and to a point, I'd still defend that statement. My way of handling it left a lot to be desired...but bottom line: I just want to play the damn game without all the petty melodrama. If I seriously have to mute the entire game, EVERY game, in order to have even a remote chance of having a good game...there's got to be a line somewhere. If I can't even attempt to TALK STRATEGY with people, without the instantaneous "stfu toxic noob" response, this game will inevitably die out, even to me and others like me. It's petty, and in about 5/6 games I was punished in from s6 onwards, I wasn't even saying anything (at least at first) that should have resulted in someone being upset. I'm again only human, so on a bad day, yeah screw them, I'm gonna let them know how I feel about their outrageous response, and where they can shove their opinion of me. I fully accept responsibility for letting them know it. It's not a badge of honor that I got punished for getting back at them, it's that to me it was an evil I no longer cared to hide, borne when a demand for mutual respect as teammates was completely ignored. I'm not going out of my way to ruin someone's game...until I'm going to already be labeled as someone who's going out of their way to ruin their game every time I lose my lane, at which point (on a bad day) I am fully capable of getting just as toxic as the passive-aggressive troglodytes that can't take a single word of criticism claim I was. I said "focus on farm" as a strategy meant to mean "we're going to lose a full-out fight against their early game damage so we need to get our items first", not "Noob, you're playing the game wrong, focus on farm you boosted ape."

It's not my fault if people get offended by me trying to strategize...but the report-o-bot doesn't care about that, and neither do the people who abuse it. The bot ESPECIALLY doesn't care when you don't press mute, and instead choose to lose your mind. I will stress this: there are PLENTY of times I deserved the reports...but for every time I was a legitimately "toxic" person in game, there were almost 5x more that I hit the mute button and moved on, to be reported anyway. I covered all the bad stuff about myself, and wrote of myself at my worst, because my best is irrelevant - I'm not getting that account back.

This account is one I made originally to try and get a friend into the game with me. he played pretty much exclusively during S4, and now this account is essentially the last chance I'm giving this game. If it's deemed "too toxic" by a bunch of people who can't take anything being directed at them, then I will deem this community too self-absorbed to work with any further, and try to find a different MOBA...probably HotS cause I hate DOTA. Simple as that.

Voldymort2/20/2019, 1:12:41 PM2 votes

you missed one

F: The casuals. They play on and off depending on irl issues or other games they like to spend time on. Some only play ranked for the Victorious skins, some become more active during missions or URF and some only play ARAMs or for fun. They don't mind obeying the rules, since talking in chat is not their main interest in playing League.

I found this guy while browsing op.gg the other day:

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ipm

if there ever needed to be a representative for casuals who couldn't care less about forum drama or patch changes, it's this guy

Kei1432/20/2019, 1:33:37 PM1 votes

What's the source of that graph?

The Ecdysiast2/20/2019, 1:12:28 PM1 votes

Technically none of the rules they have would be upheld in a court of law, because none of them are specific enough to be followed.

But they cover themselves from that by including the clause in the ToS that reads:

"We may terminate or suspend your account if we determine, in our sole discretion, that: (a) you have violated any part of this Agreement;

(b) we have stopped offering the Riot Services in your region; or

(c) doing so would be in the best interests of our community, the Riot Services, or the rights of a third party."

The fact it is up to their sole discretion means they don't actually have to follow any legal precedents.

There is also this lovely bit: "We have the right to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Content—including Virtual Goods—in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason or no reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. "

Which they in fact do not have, but can include because the laws haven't caught up to the trade of virtual goods.