Boards›Player Behavior

Have you ever considered punishment without context?

Awf Meta·3/19/2018, 2:44:38 PM·2 votes·886 views

We have 3 punishments: low priority queue, chat restriction, and suspension.

Low priority queue: A forced waiting period. The person is not allowed to interact with the client. They are only allowed to stare at a timer.

Chat restriction: Forcibly limiting the amount of chat instances. Completely removing the ability to talk to certain people. (/all chat)

Suspension: Forcibly removing a player from the game. Then not allowing that player to return.

Now consider: Are those actions positive, negative, or neutral?

Bonus consideration: Apply those punishments to "a loved one". Examples:

I forced a loved one to wait without interaction. I forced a love one to stare at a timer.

I forcibly limited the amount of times a loved one could speak. I also forcibly forbid them from speaking to others.

I forcibly removed a loved one from the game. I then forcibly forbid them from returning to the game.

Now consider: Are those actions positive, negative, or neutral? Did your answers change when applied to "a loved one"?

EDIT: I made an assumption, sorry about that. To correct that assumption I offer a third series of questions:

Apply those actions to some one you hate.

Now consider: Are those actions positive, negative, or neutral? Did your answer differ from the previous answers?

EDIT: Please at least attempt the thought experiment.

92 Comments

Jo0o3/19/2018, 2:47:49 PM12 votes

I don't understand any context for this mental exercise. Are we supposed to judge the actions as positive/negative/neutral for the individual or the community? And what purpose does the "loved one" exercise have?

Pandemic Punch3/19/2018, 3:16:05 PM6 votes

This isn't well thought out. A cow does not become a cat by calling it a cat. You are just trying to explain what, "intent" is from the perspective of someone enforcing rules/punishments. Then you are subtly demonizing people who enforce rules because it isn't a nice thing to do. However, everyone knows that enforcement does not = nice. The action of enforcement is blunt and assertive. You can't give rule breakers a prize for breaking the rules. You have to deal with them using force/enforcement.

PresBushDid7113/19/2018, 3:00:33 PM5 votes

I am confused as to the frame of reference as well. From Riot's perspective, and most of the community, punishments are positive. Punishments are an attempt to deter unwanted behavior, and remove it if necessary.

swordofsun3/19/2018, 3:13:52 PM5 votes

This thought exercise is based on a faulty premise. I am not Riot's loved one. Because Riot Games is a company and not a person.

Riot is beholden to the people spending the most money and ideally the people they can entice in to spend money. People who have happy and positive gaming experiences spend more money. They also tell their friends about this awesome game to play and spend money on.

Thus, creating the happiest and bestest gaming experience possible will most likely result in more money.

Now, for your "loved one" comparison.

I forced a loved one to wait without interaction. I forced a love one to stare at a timer.

Were you never told to go sit in the corner as a child? Usually for a period of time? Where the point was that you could only sit and stare at the corner rather than, say, screaming at your sister?

Have you never been so mad at someone you just couldn't talk to them for a period of time? Had an argument and decided that taking a cool down period would be a good idea because if you said anything it would probably lead to you saying something you couldn't take back?

I forcibly limited the amount of times a loved one could speak. I also forcibly forbid them from speaking to others.

I'd like to believe that I'm not the only person who has ever told anyone that they weren't allowed to speak to me in a demeaning/rude manner.

How about, again, punishment for children? If you can't interact with your sister nicely then you don't get to talk to her at all?

I forcibly removed a loved one from the game. I then forcibly forbid them from returning to the game.

I assume you mean something like: I forcibly removed my loved one from my life.

I'm glad you've never been in the position to cut off all contact with a loved one, but it does happen. Sometimes for your own health you need to just remove someone from your life. Sometimes there can be a reconciliation, but don't hold your breath if it's reached that point.

I'm not sure what your goal is with these comparisons. Presumably to show how "unfair" they are or something, but again, you're not comparing the correct things. Of course you treat a loved one differently than Riot treats the players. They are two completely different things.

ModThe Djinn3/19/2018, 3:30:58 PM4 votes

{quoted}Now consider: Are those actions positive, negative, or neutral?

Now consider: Are those actions positive, negative, or neutral? Did your answers change when applied to "a loved one"?

So I'll give you an answer to these, but I don't think the questions really help much.

My answer is that, in every case these are negative actions from the perspective of the player subjected to them. That is, however, what a punishment inherently is: an undesirable consequence associated with a behavior you seek to disincentive.

From the perspective of the community as a whole, these actions can be positive.

Ultimately, this post really just gets us to the idea that the punishment system IS a punishment system...which is something we already knew.