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Why Toxic Players Continue to be Toxic - From a Toxic Player’s Perspective

I am Crow·9/19/2018, 1:52:29 AM·8 votes·7,185 views

Disclaimer :

While I am toxic, I’m only writing this from my point of view in hopes Riot fixes their current system or implements a new one altogether. And no, I have never been ‘gameplay toxic’, only chat toxic. Another question I expect is, “Do you have banned accounts.” Yes, I do, but it in no way has any effect on what I write here. The only thing the bans have done, is have me reflect on why I continue to be toxic afterwards, and why people do the same. Most of what I comment on is from what I have seen and experienced while playing the game. I accept the punishments assigned to me, and have no anger towards the decisions made.

Perma-banning Due to Chat Toxicity :

I completely think this should be reconsidered, it’s extremely easy to get a tag through their current filter for saying any little thing, and puts a lot of stress in toxic players. Contrary to what Riot believes, it only encourages more chat toxicity but in different forms. An example, ‘kys’, this will get you banned. Instead, people create more ways to say it, bypassing the filter anyways. Banning people for talking shit in a competitive game is a little bit of an oddity; it’s expected in any game where people would care about MMR, or rank, etc. Going to the frontline of a war and then complaining about being shot at while standing in the middle of a firefight is a bit ridiculous. In both scenarios there is a way to prevent it, in League -- it’s the mute button, that is completely functional. There is also a chat censor that is on by default, turning it off means you are open to mature language, and being banned for using said language is counter-intuitive. Why have a chat censor or the mute button at all at that point? Stabbing yourself for no reason and getting someone else arrested for it doesn’t seem very fair, right? As Dunkey stated, there’s no individuality in the game anymore, having a player unable to express themselves feels very restricting, and usually doesn’t prevent the problem anyways, hence why bans from chat still go around. Mental illness also plays a part in this, there are quite obviously people with a screw loose, like myself, who have a lack of control and high amounts of impulse whilst frustrated. Now a common answer to this would be, “Just go get some professional help.” and while I did, the world doesn’t work that way; everyone doesn’t do what they’re supposed to with and they have their own reasoning.

Personally, I don’t think there should be a filter at all, competitive games have always had a place for trash talking but, that doesn’t mean I don’t see why it’s implemented in the first place. Cases of racism, death threats, homophobia, etc., are definitely high up on the list of things you wouldn’t want running rampant in a video game. Which is why I do fully agree with those people being banned for using such words/phrases. What I don’t understand, is why someone is permanently locked out of an account for saying someone is bad at a competitive video game. If being told “You’re shit.” genuinely offends you, mute the player, and the problem vanishes. Perma-banning is a harsh solution for an easy to solve, preventable problem that lies on the player on the receiving end of the toxicity. For the player throwing the toxicity out, it may actually lead to a better game. Being able to vent frustration allows the player to refocus, and be more concerned about winning the game, rather than thinking of a way to get their point across while getting around the filter.

In my opinion, a permanent chat restriction, or a permanent block of the player’s communications. I tested this myself, by using a script (Approved by Riot) to prevent me from typing. Keep in mind, I can turn this script off. The script made a huge difference, in times of impulse I couldn’t be bothered to disable it, and I moved on quickly -- with no gameplay toxicity, which is Riot’s reasoning for not doing this tactic. Instead of taking away thousands of dollars from somebody or forcing them to use third-party programs, it should be a punishment that the company dishes out. Because while Riot wants to prevent a ‘prison island’, they create one anyways and get innocent, new players caught in there as well. People get addicted to this game, so making a new account to continue playing it, isn’t a big problem. These new accounts don’t matter, people go through 10, 20, 30 without a care; no one is attached to them. And where do they go? Right to level 3, with someone new to the game. Pushing players away from the game because of a punishment they had nothing to do with, is quite absurd.

Loss of Attachment to the Game - and Accounts :

This especially has a large effect on new players, and people considering getting into the game. Many a toxic player refuses to recommend the game for the restriction on self expression. I’ve had plenty of friends do it, so I’m assuming it’s not a rare occasion. Being told, “You’ll be banned for cursing when someone has to turn of a censor to see it in the first place, or calling someone bad.” doesn’t exactly seem very inviting or pleasant to deal with. All banning on chat toxicity does is spread it to the people who shouldn’t be seeing it in the first place. On top of this, people who are banned from chat toxicity have a higher chance of also becoming gameplay toxic. If you’re on an account that you haven’t spent money on, you don’t care about it, there’s no point in not doing it because you’ll just make a new account or buy a fresh 30 anyways. (Which I haven’t done, but have witnessed people do.) Or just climb in a double digit number of games because your skill is leagues higher than the ranks you’re going through, ruins the experience for players playing at their own skill level. It also gives less of a reason to care about losing more accounts after the first. Shoving bottom of the barrel community members into first impressions loses new players. And allowing people to ruin games for other people who also care about the game are crippling results of what could easily be avoided.

TLDR :

  • Banning chat toxic players is creating more toxicity, and players can already avoid seeing the messages they dislike in the first place.

  • Making someone go on a new account doesn’t reduce chances of being toxic and only increases toxicity -- from what I’ve seen, I don’t have the data that Riot has.

  • Lack of expression, and shoving the garbage of the community into new player experiences are both turn-offs for anyone considering to play the game, or that are new to the game.

  • From personal experience, permanent mutes/restrictions to chat have worked.

  • Competitive games draw competitive players, that care about the game. Trash talking should be expected whenever you’re going into a game with a competitive nature. Expecting otherwise is silly.

  • Extreme cases of chat toxicity, or gameplay toxicity in general should be dealt with using permanent bans, and I’m not arguing against that.

I’m curious to see what others think or if anyone agrees with me. I am willing to change my opinion, and I am open to differing ones. Saying things along the lines of “toxic player is mad because banned” doesn’t generate genuine conversation, so as much as you’d like to say it, please refrain from it.

54 Comments

theChibiTina9/19/2018, 2:20:08 AM3 votes

I'm glad perma-chat restriction works for you, but unfortunately you're the minority. Riot has tried to test the perma-chat restriction option before and the majority just resorted to other options such as inting and trolling. So yeah. You can blame those jerks for why that option will never be available.

MrFawknSunshine9/19/2018, 1:58:01 AM3 votes

trash talk in tic tac toe or checkers?

i swear people chat more in the game (from the chat logs i seen posted by banned players ) then actual spend playing the game they are in. toxic people are toxic cuz they dont care about anyone else and feel safe behind the monitor and keyboard, knowing there isnt any life altering repercussions to their actions. most of toxicity has to do with immaturity, having to strokes one ego over a video game.

i for one have long advocated removal of chat from in game. cant verbally abuse, harass , use hate speech if chat dont exist.

Elite4Runner9/19/2018, 2:45:46 AM3 votes

From what I have seen, a majority of toxicity does not involve players on one team "trash-talking" players on the other team. It most often seems to be players that flame members of their own team. That is not a result of someone being placed in a competitive environment, that is what happens when people don't want to accept any responsibility for a game that looks to be headed south and feel safe behind their keyboard.

Kareshi9/19/2018, 2:46:32 AM2 votes

That was actually fairly put well. Makes sense.

I too have in the past suggested in a discussion email , to do the permanent chat ban and they still give the the same response " we tried giving chat restrictions but players will still be toxic and dont reform"

Yeah but they did not try yearly chat bans and by chat bans meaning not even the 5/5 messages you atleast get to use in chat restrictions. Chat ban as in its disabled you cannot type anything, the chat box prompt shouldn't even open.

Just picture a toxic player not being able to use the chat or voice chat in party for a year< , okay say they wait out the year type some toxic stuff the tier 2 punishment is a 2 year chat ban, then 4 years etc. . Do you really think they can cause significant harm to other players if they cant access chat, sure the only thing they can do as alternative is run down lane and feed which by the way is reviewed by footage so that alone is a perma ban.

Soo many time I have told riot stop trying to tread in the middle, you cant stay in the middle and make a balanced ban system to reform players. You clearly have to go Extreme

Either make it so that anyone who acts up will just stack on more yearly chat bans and it will annoy the shit out of them that they will stop Or

dont bother with reports and reforming, just change the category to "underground" gaming which means any and all trash talk is fine who cares about user friendly, in their position they can easily be like " well f**k whatever these players do they WILL play our game and we STILL get money"

The problem is the CHAT box that is all it is, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how 1,000+ employees at Riot games couldnt implement a strategy to deal with the Chat box effectively.

Tawxic Skunt9/19/2018, 9:34:13 PM2 votes

If you think that the reason they permaban instead of perma chat ban is because it "Didn't work or won't stop toxic players from being toxic" then I'm afraid that, in my opinion, anyone who believes this is incredible naive.

I would love for them to elaborate as to how a perma chat ban would not fix the issues they are having, or not curb toxic players from being toxic, given the information available. I would wager that 95% of bans are from chat related issues. NOT from people inting or afk'ing.

  • Toxic players will just create new accounts which creates smurfing issues, thus ruining the game for people in lower elo than said player that is smurfing.

  • People who int often do not get punished if they have not said a single thing in the majority of their games, and will NEVER be punished if they do it even in (I'm assuming) 30-50% of their games. In my opinion, I'd rather have someone who inted be banned than having someone who talked shit be banned.

  • Words can be stopped and won't prevent players from winning a game, however, deliberately ruining peoples games by giving free kills will.

  • I really would like them to elaborate as to how giving a toxic player a perma chat ban would not stop them from being toxic via their main method of toxicity, as again, players that say nothing and int or afk (afk farm to avoid the afk penalty) rarely get penalized.

Phoenixdust9/19/2018, 11:42:40 PM2 votes

"BuT PeRmAnEnTlY MuTeD PlAyErS TuRn tO InTiNg aNd tRoLlInG…" - Quote from any Rito fanboy.

I just don't understand why they do not ban the inters/trolls then.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

Rat Męat9/20/2018, 1:28:22 PM1 votes

ok I typed n i g in 3 different texts and got a 2 week ban

Inkling Commando9/19/2018, 3:27:53 AM1 votes

to put it shortly, people are toxic cause they know being toxic works and will get them what they expect and if being toxic doesn't work they simply report the player they targeted. in no way shape or form do people think 'wait. maybe if i am nice i'd get what i expect more often' they only think 'well being toxic works for me so why should i stop?'

Yormaughm9/19/2018, 12:04:09 PM1 votes

You know how in math you can reduce a fraction? Like you wouldn't say "two fourths" you would say "one half."

I Am Crow seems to be repeating in responses to this thread "Banning toxic players ruins the new player experience" because they'll just come back with new accounts and negatively impact a different set of people. As if this is somehow an argument against attempts to punish toxicity.

But it is equally true that "Banning toxic players ruins the new player experience" and this is why Riot does it the way they do. It's the reduced fraction approach to the problem.

Vlada Cut9/19/2018, 1:42:35 PM1 votes

They should loosen between 14 day and perma suspension from chat abuse, being perma banned after one profanity seems harsh. But again, some players just don't learn from their mistakes. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Kei1439/19/2018, 4:18:32 PM1 votes

From what I see here, there are those types that have a little bit of control and those that have no control at all.

I've read people behavior here explaining that they've tried to flick off the enter key button, only to pick up the button, flame and the flick it back off . Some has used the 3rd oarty program method, only alt tab out into the 3rd party program, enable the use of the enter key, flame and then tab back out to disable the key. There are also those that threaten to troll and int regardless of what happens.

I've also read plenty of people like yourself, who say that a continued chat restriction help them massively reduce their toxicity, but many of them went back to being toxic after the restriction ended.

Who knows what % of the toxics have to control to be kept in perma-mute or perma-restricted and not result to further toxicity or even disruptive gameplay behavior. But I personally think that if it reduces 20% of the toxicity environment, then it'll be better for everyone.

The question is whether this feature alone is worth the development time and worth to work on this feature over other upcoming features. I was talking to Riot Rikey in his community Nexus Blitz chill games, out of things that are currently announced, he is working on S9 ranked system and adjustment of honors. He chuckled when I suggested to him a self mute feature. So can I take that as "what a ridiculous idea" or "we just talked about this the other day".

He liked the idea of having a block option when people spam friend requests on you, even though you know they have nothing nice to say.

He also had no idea if he was working with working with Riot Tantram, as they only call each other by their names. But if he is working with Tantram, then I know that he is working on something more compelling than monthly report cards.