Why can’t you transfer your skins and other things you worked for?

Girls Love Tyler·9/10/2018, 12:03:13 AM·2 votes·2,851 views

I’m perma banned on my main account. So, I’m looking at my smurf and was thinking “ hmmm should I be able to transfer my things from account to account”? Please don’t say “well you don’t own it, riot does”. No, I spent my money on it and I own that stuff. That’s how transactions work. Anyways, is there any way to transfer my stuff to my smurf account.

And don’t say “ you broke the rules, you lose your stuff”. That’s true I lost riot stuff but the stuff I spent money on it my stuff. I own it. Riot doesn’t own it because it wasn’t free on their behalf, it was my money.

47 Comments

Jo0o9/10/2018, 12:07:00 AM16 votes

It would sorta defeat the purpose of a ban if you could simply transfer everything to a new account.

Beyond that, just because you acknowledge the obvious counterpoints in your OP doesn't make them any less relevant. Your RP purchases are available for use as long as Riot allows you access to your account, which they no longer do. They're hardly the only online gaming company to treat customers in that way.

Umbral Regent9/10/2018, 12:09:40 AM10 votes

From the Terms of Use, Section 4:

4.3. Do I “own” the Virtual Goods I unlock? (No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.) You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting. Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash. You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us. You can find our current content refund policy here.

We have the right to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Content—including Virtual Goods—in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason or no reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. We don’t provide or guarantee, and expressly disclaim, any value, cash or otherwise, attributed to any data residing on servers we operate or control, including any Game Content attributed to your account. The sale or transfer of your right to access certain Virtual Goods, Blue Essence, Riot Points or Hextech Items may only be conducted via services approved of or provided by us, if any.

4.4. Once again: I don’t own these Virtual Goods? (“No!” shouted all the lawyers.) NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP, OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE GAME CONTENT THAT YOU UNLOCK OR ACCUMULATE, REGARDLESS OF ANY CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR RIOT POINTS OR VIRTUAL GOODS. FURTHERMORE, RIOT GAMES SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, HACKING, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME CONTENT, VIRTUAL GOODS OR RIOT POINTS, INCLUDING THE DELETION OF GAME CONTENT, VIRTUAL GOODS OR RIOT POINTS UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

You can say "I own it" all you want. Doesn't make it true.

The stuff you purchased was tied to the account that got banned - you cannot transfer stuff that you've purchased between accounts - especially not after getting an account permanently banned. If you could, then the punishment would have no bite whatsoever. And what's there to learn from a punishment that doesn't do anything?

Your transaction was real-world money for Riot points. Even then, the transaction for those Riot points is tied strictly to one account, and one account only. And again; Riot is under no obligation to refund you your money or transfer the skins you bought temporary, revocable access to to any other account.

Besides, if one could have RP or skins or anything like that transferred from one account to another - especially one that's permanently banned - what's to stop people from stealing other people's shit?

zPOOPz9/10/2018, 12:07:12 AM8 votes

That's not how Intellectual Properties works. You do not "own" it. You are licensed to use it. A license that can be revoked if you violated their rules.

If you want to claim you own their IP, you will have to contest their Patents in court and win that.

You spent money to buy Riot Points, NOT skins or champs. You gave Rito money for RP, Rito gave you the RP you purchased all in good faith.

Sukishoo9/10/2018, 12:18:13 AM6 votes

Nope. Right in the TOU of the game it says that all content is owned by RIot and you are "borrowing" it. So it's basically saying "Purchase at your own risk"

Modi9/10/2018, 3:34:54 AM6 votes

I’m perma banned on my main account. So, I’m looking at my smurf and was thinking “ hmmm should I be able to transfer my things from account to account”? Please don’t say “well you don’t own it, riot does”.

That is the truth. Riot owns ALL the content within the game. You own nothing.

No, I spent my money on it and I own that stuff.

Again, no, you do not own anything

That’s how transactions work.

What about rental agreements? What about paying someone to take some crap away from your house (trash service, anyone?)

Anyways, is there any way to transfer my stuff to my smurf account.

Yes, Riot can, but they will most likely will not.

And don’t say “ you broke the rules, you lose your stuff”.

We didn't, Riot did.

That’s true I lost riot stuff but the stuff I spent money on it my stuff. I own it.

Again, no. You own nothing.

Riot doesn’t own it because it wasn’t free on their behalf, it was my money.

Again, no. Below is as close to a complete answer that I can give you. All of this comes from section 4 of the ToU

4.1. What kind of “virtual goods” can I access in the Game? (You can unlock access to champions, skins, emotes, accessories, etc.)

Let's see, you access virtual goods created by Riot

When using the Game, you may “unlock” and gain access to various in-Game virtual goods (“Virtual Goods”) associated with your account, including:

A second time? Access, not purchase

You can access these Virtual Goods in at least one of three ways:

There it is again, "access", not "purchase". Let's dive deeper

4.1.2. With Riot Points. Every player with a valid, active account may participate in our “Riot Points” service offering, which is a redeemable point system that operates like virtual currency.

Hmm, "like" virtual currency. It isn't currency, it is just like it.

Riot Points can be purchased online through the in-Game store or at retail in the form of a prepaid “Riot Games Game Card.”

First instance of purchase in the entire section. Nothing about buying skins, champions, etc. The only thing you purchase is RP.

You can use Riot Points to unlock and acquire access to certain Virtual Goods (e.g., boosts, champion skins, ward skins, and new champions).

Look at that, you don't use RP to "buy", you use it to "unlock". it gets even more explicit in the next part

4.3. Do I “own” the Virtual Goods I unlock? (No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.)

Wait, did it just say that you don't own it? Yep. They go more into detail in the legalese.

You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting.

That is pretty damn explicit. especially the first part of the sentence: "You have no ownership". But can you get any money back for virtual goods?

Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash.

Say what? The stuff you unlocked is monetarily worthless? Yes, that is exactly what they say.

You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us.

So, unless they expressly say that you can have a refund, you are not entitled to a refund. They even provide a link to their refund policy

4.4. Once again: I don’t own these Virtual Goods? (“No!” shouted all the lawyers.)

It must be pretty damn important, if they feel the need to repeat that. I'll spare you the super dry, all caps, downright boring to read, legalese, but you can read it here if you so choose.

Zombie Gerbil9/10/2018, 12:13:19 AM6 votes

Then the ban would have no real consequence.
If you don't deserve the account, you don't deserve the contents on it. That's why in the Terms of Use, Riot says no refund. It's a good thing really. Because toxic players should learn the consequences of their actions.

Aneirin9/10/2018, 1:13:27 AM4 votes

I spent money on it my stuff. I own it.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true.

Voldymort9/10/2018, 6:39:38 AM3 votes

but the stuff I spent money on it my stuff. I own it. Riot doesn’t own it because it wasn’t free on their behalf, it was my money.

oh really?

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse

4.3. Do I “own” the Virtual Goods I unlock? (No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.) You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting. Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash. You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us. You can find our current content refund policy here.

We have the right to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Content—including Virtual Goods—in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason or no reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. We don’t provide or guarantee, and expressly disclaim, any value, cash or otherwise, attributed to any data residing on servers we operate or control, including any Game Content attributed to your account. The sale or transfer of your right to access certain Virtual Goods, Blue Essence, Riot Points or Hextech Items may only be conducted via services approved of or provided by us, if any.

4.4. Once again: I don’t own these Virtual Goods? (“No!” shouted all the lawyers.) NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU HAVE NO CLAIM, RIGHT, TITLE, OWNERSHIP, OR OTHER PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN THE GAME CONTENT THAT YOU UNLOCK OR ACCUMULATE, REGARDLESS OF ANY CONSIDERATION OFFERED OR PAID IN EXCHANGE FOR RIOT POINTS OR VIRTUAL GOODS. FURTHERMORE, RIOT GAMES SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER FOR THE DESTRUCTION, DELETION, MODIFICATION, IMPAIRMENT, HACKING, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGE OR LOSS OF ANY KIND CAUSED TO THE GAME CONTENT, VIRTUAL GOODS OR RIOT POINTS, INCLUDING THE DELETION OF GAME CONTENT, VIRTUAL GOODS OR RIOT POINTS UPON THE TERMINATION OR EXPIRATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

Stephenizgod9/10/2018, 7:41:01 AM2 votes

You don't own your account or anything on it, you basically rent everything you pay for. Once you break the rules, you are no longer allowed to use it and you don't get a refund for breaking rules you agreed to. You agreed to this when you made your account. Your account is theirs to do with as they see fit and they can stop service whenever they want for whatever reason they want. Again, you agreed to this when you made your account. You and Riot have an agreement, you follow the rules and you get to use their services, you can even pay for extra flair if you want.... Idk how many times I should put the word "agree" in here, but hopefully its enough for you.

Besides, what is the point of letting you transfer all of your stuff if they perma-banned your account. They are basically saying "unless you reform, go away." so why would they want you to keep making accounts without any real punishment?

also I remember your previous posts, you clearly don't understand the difference between having a bad game/making a mistake and being too toxic to be allowed to play the game anymore. You were bumped up to permaban really quickly because you clearly didn't get the memo with the 14-day suspension.

ModThe Djinn9/10/2018, 1:24:57 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Girls Love Tyler,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PVF2wAp7,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-10T00:03:13.381+0000)No, I spent my money on it and I own that stuff.

That's not how virtual goods work, no.

See the Terms of Use, Section 4.3:

##4.3. Do I “own” the Virtual Goods I unlock? (No. What you “unlock” is not the virtual good itself, but rather, a qualified right to access it in the Game.) You have no ownership or other property interest in any of the Virtual Goods you unlock, regardless of whether you acquired access to those Virtual Goods using Riot Points, Blue Essence or Hextech Crafting. Virtual Goods have no monetary value. You can’t redeem them for cash. You can’t obtain any refunds for purchasing Riot Points or Virtual Goods, except as expressly permitted by us. You can find our current content refund policy here.

We have the right to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Content—including Virtual Goods—in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason or no reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. We don’t provide or guarantee, and expressly disclaim, any value, cash or otherwise, attributed to any data residing on servers we operate or control, including any Game Content attributed to your account. The sale or transfer of your right to access certain Virtual Goods, Blue Essence, Riot Points or Hextech Items may only be conducted via services approved of or provided by us, if any.

Riot doesn't own it because it wasn't free on their behalf, it was my money.

It was your money, that you gave them for -- as per their terms of use, which you agreed to when you made an account -- a right to access content on that account. It's a standard for virtual goods that is common across hundreds if not thousands of companies, and it definitely legal.

Dr Cat Pooch9/11/2018, 12:33:03 AM2 votes

Ownership is a complex legal concept that refers to a number of rights, such as the right to enter, the right to transfer, and the right to use and enjoy, among others. What you buy when you purchase cosmetics in this game is a LICENSE to USE the skin in the game, subject to the terms of that license, or Terms of Use. You violated the terms of use. You don't get to use it. That's how that works.

Also, getting banned is a punishment. It's meant to PUNISH YOU for your conduct. Giving you all the stuff you worked for would be rewarding you. That's not how that works.

SammyDayspring9/11/2018, 12:57:45 AM2 votes

You don't own software. You pay for a license, and the license can be revoked. Read the agreement more carefully.

comedybingbongs9/12/2018, 2:28:10 PM1 votes

The thing is that Riot sees it as you renting the skins. As soon as your account is banned, your rental period is over.

Now, this shouldn't necessarily be an issue. People are familiar with the concept of renting. People rent a tux for prom, people used to rent movies from blockbuster, etc. The problem, though, is that Riot has made the client and the shop look and feel like a regular online store. Like amazon or something like that. They have purposefully not recreated the atmosphere of a renting. So when players get banned, it feels like stuff that they bought and own is being taken from them.

So yes. Riot can point to some ToS bullshit that nobody actually reads. So can the Riot fanbois who occupy these threads. And they are absolutely correct. Howvever, Riot knows what they are doing when they design the client to feel like you are buying something and not renting it.

Tldr: Riot should make the store feel more like you are renting something than buying something. This would be the honest move.

Girls Love Tyler9/10/2018, 12:17:55 AM1 votes

Also another thing. Any lawyer will tell you. Just because you can’t feel it, or smell it. Doesn’t mean it’s not yours. By law any virtual currency that you buy, hence the rp, is then therefore yours.

IllyaFate9/10/2018, 12:11:24 AM1 votes

It's sad how often perma bans happen. It's obvious that it's just another form of revenue for them. If toxicity was an issue there are ways around it. Like disabling their chat permanently. However, they resort to banning people instead cause they figure they will just make purchases again. Perma bans should have only been used in serious conditions. Not how they are being used here.

breakordoom4449/10/2018, 3:45:52 AM1 votes

But in the terms and agreements, you agreed that you don't own anything, you just get the access for it.

and by agreeing to the ToS, you agreed that.

ya.

theres a prose i wrote 5 years ago.

"you should have read the terms more carefully."

CharDeeMcDenniz9/10/2018, 12:54:01 AM1 votes

any Family Guy fans here?

this has the smell of that scene where the donkey is trying to tell the guy that Kevin Bacon wasn't in Footloose