Boards›Player Behavior

Is it justified to permaban without showing evidence?

Ray Tracer·11/11/2019, 3:53:18 AM·3 votes·1,899 views

My account was permabanned for "botting", but when I submitted a ticket to ask how they judged my gameplay as botting, they said that the evidence cannot be revealed to prevent compromise the detection system.

Let me make a comparison. I am sentenced to life in prison for stealing. But the judge said that the evidence cannot be shown on the court to prevent compromise of the detective technology.

The point is, Riot is both the judge and plaintiff. If they do not even show the evidence, how can they justify their action? Or is their logic: It's my game, I can ban anyone whenever I want to, and I don't need to tell you why I do it, no matter how you think or if you purchased with that account?

If they want to keep their system from being compromised, they should make more robust algorithms rather than doing black box in this way. If you cannot even show your action is right, then how can others believe it?

11 Comments

rujitra11/11/2019, 4:17:34 AM9 votes

In every country I know of, the country has laws and procedures for the withholding of evidence in the case of security risk in releasing it.

Riot does not show the evidence because if they showed you how they detected it, they'd have to show everyone. And if they show people how they detect botting... it becomes very easy to simply not do that and then not be detected.

Edit:

It's obvious this is not your first account. It's obvious that your account was not leveled by yourself. Don't try and play dumb.

Yin Yang Taoist11/11/2019, 4:14:21 AM5 votes

Doesn't it affect them if they show botters evidence of botting? That way actual botters would know what they did wrong and fix it.

Umbral Regent11/11/2019, 4:33:41 AM5 votes

From the Terms of Use...

2.1. How can my account be suspended or terminated? (If you break the rules, Demacian Justice will be visited upon your account!)

Three Two different people/entities can suspend or terminate your account:

...

2.1.2. Us.We may terminate or suspend your account if we determine, in our sole discretion, that:

(a) you have violated any part of this Agreement;

(b) we have stopped offering the Riot Services in your region; or

(c) doing so would be in the best interests of our community, the Riot Services, or the rights of a third party.

We may make such determinations, among other ways, by using automated systems and machine learning tools.

It isn't stipulated anywhere in the Account Termination section that they are required by any means to provide evidence or reasoning to accompany a punishment. And, as Yin Yang Taoist and Riot Support themselves both pointed out to you, they will not disclose details of how they came to find out that you had botted or otherwise used third-party software since doing so could lead to the bot/script/TPS makers finding out what exactly is tripping detection so that they can make their software harder to catch.

If they want to keep their system from being compromised, they should make more robust algorithms rather than doing black box in this way.

Things are never that simple. In an ideal world, it's probable that they could code a bot detection program that is completely impervious and foolproof...And in an ideal world, people wouldn't make or use bots or third-party software in the first place.

But, until that ideal outcome comes to pass, the best course of action would be to not disclose how their system detects botting since, obviously, that would lead to bot-programmers working around it and forcing Riot to work around making new detection methods.

Kei14311/11/2019, 12:32:57 PM1 votes

Oh they had the evidence presented to court. They just didn't show it to the convict.