It's official: the trolls have won.

Awf Meta·Feb 23, 2018·5 votes·920 views

131 consecutive games without buying a single item. [img]https://i.imgur.com/MipCgNF.png[/img]

What happens the second we say ANYTHING? [img]https://i.imgur.com/9gOjwj0.png[/img]

Game play is almost invulnerable to bans. Language is extremely vulnerable to bans.

A person could technically leave the game they are being harassed in. In that case, the victim gets punished with leave buster and the offender doesn't get punished.

League of Legends has officially been taken hostage by trolls.

You are not allowed to leave the trolls. You are not allowed to talk to the trolls. You are to sit there quietly until the trolls decide to move on. You may file a report after the trolls have left, but we are too busy to look into it.

Or........ join the trolls. Be one with the trolls.

61 Comments

Deep Terror NamiFeb 23, 20185 votes

Hey Failed,

I'm really sorry you've got to deal with these kinds of experiences, I have seen it too and at best it's not an enjoyable experience. This is kind of a pitfall of how Riot approaches banning bots, kind of a necessary evil to help prevent things from getting worse: Bots are banned in waves periodically (maybe every 2 weeks? there's no public info on that) rather than immediately upon detection. While this is really frustrating to players in your position (particularly newbies), it is done so that the botters have a difficult or impossible time figuring out how Riot is catching them, because they would use that information to adjust their programs and evade detection and consequently ruin many many more games and profit immensely while dealing great damage to the game beyond a few days or a couple weeks at low levels.

I think they could make some improvements right there, such as auto banning if they exceed a certain number of games after detection rather than waiting on the ban wave (given too many games, they still couldn't figure out how they got caught). Riot is absolutely banning these people, and they are quite easily caught, there's just a gap where they are a problem before they get the boot. I know it's a painful experience for you, but please hang in there and try to understand why things are like this!

I also understand the urge to flame bots or players that are just trolling, but it really doesn't help the situation and makes the game a little (or a lot) worse for the other legitimate players in the game dealing with it just the same as you are. Bots and troll absolutely don't care if you shit talk them, and with trolls they are probably looking for negative reactions like that; ignoring, muting, and reporting them doesn't fix any damage they did, but it does help improve the match at hand for you and reporting helps get them removed from the community so others don't have to deal with the same thing.

P.S. The bot has already stopped playing, the only reason this would happen is if it already got banned, so I'm not going to submit another ticket since it won't help, but I do think I'd like to make a post proposing the change to the ban wave.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20183 votes

When you say "ANYTHING" ... hmmm.

I'm pretty sure you could say a lot of things to the player without being punished.

For example,

"Please buy items so you can be effective."
"Help the team out please."

Seriously my dude, you're not allowed to be toxic to other players. It doesn't matter if they are innocent or completely deserving of the harassment. Punishing them is not your job, not your responsibility, and not your right.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

When you say "ANYTHING" ... hmmm.

I'm pretty sure you could say a lot of things to the player without being punished.

For example,

"Please buy items so you can be effective."

"Help the team out please."

Seriously my dude, you're not allowed to be toxic to other players. It doesn't matter if they are innocent or completely deserving of the harassment. Punishing them is not your job, not your responsibility, and not your right.

Sounds like you are complaining. Complaining is negativity. Complaining is punishable behavior.

Positive speech can be sarcasm. Sarcasm is negativity. Sarcasm is punishable behavior.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20183 votes

My point was that you are exaggerating. There are lots of things you could say without getting into trouble. It's just when you insult or demean others that you can get in trouble for talking in chat.

Also did you even read the last bit? It's kind of important. Here:

"Seriously my dude, you're not allowed to be toxic to other players. It doesn't matter if they are innocent or completely deserving of the harassment. Punishing them is not your job, not your responsibility, and not your right."

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

My point was that you are exaggerating. There are lots of things you could say without getting into trouble. It's just when you insult or demean others that you can get in trouble for talking in chat.

"Pretty much any" negative chat can be punished. "Pretty much any" covers a lot more than just "insults and demeaning others". Would you agree?

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20182 votes

No. They give you vague info about what can be punished for a multitude of reasons. Generally though, it is primarily just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players that can get you punished. For players who have a desensitized definition of what is toxic, it is better to warn them to not be negative at all because they will habitually talk negatively about or towards teammates.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

Am I understanding you?

You believe, "pretty much any negativity" means "just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players".

Any negativity outside of "primarily just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players" is completely nonpunishable.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Am I understanding you?

No you are not understanding me.

You believe, "pretty much any negativity" means "just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players".

Nope. I addressed that. That was what the support person said, correct? Well they give you vague advice on purpose. It's more useful to you if you just stop being negative at all because you might be like a lot of other players who can't tell the difference between being generally negative and being excessively negative or passive aggressive towards teammates. What you might consider to be "just negative" could easily be excessive or passive aggressive. Both would get you punished, so they just tell you to not be negative because that is the most effective framework for you to use to try to understand how not to be punished.

Any negativity outside of "primarily just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players" is completely nonpunishable.

Nope wrong again. Taking a defeatist attitude and repeatedly begging for surrender or for opening a lane is also punishable. As are other excessively negative things. If it ruins the experience for other players then it is punishable, end of story.

Dude it doesn't freaking matter what qualifies or doesn't. You're just digging for loopholes, you won't find any.

Look at it this way, if you wouldn't say it to somebody's face in public in front of someone who's respect you hold dear, don't say it in chat. Also, if you would be pissed off by someone saying it to you if your situations were reversed, then don't say it in chat. Clear enough for ya?

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

You start with

It's just when you insult or demean others that you can get in trouble for talking in chat.

Then you moved on to

just insults, demeaning statements or passive aggressiveness towards other players that can get you punished.

Then you add

Taking a defeatist attitude and repeatedly begging for surrender or for opening a lane is also punishable.

Then you top it with

If it ruins the experience for other players then it is punishable, end of story.

Now, the original question I asked you

"Pretty much any" negative chat can be punished. "Pretty much any" covers a lot more than just "insults and demeaning others". Would you agree?

To which you replied

No.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20182 votes

For fuck sake stop digging for loopholes. Just don't be a dick to people, it can't possibly be that difficult.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

I am digging for loop holes? More like you got caught in a contradiction and are now going to change the subject.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20182 votes

You misinterpreted me multiple times, and when I attempted to rephrase those things in new ways to help you understand them better, I said them differently. It's not a big deal.

You're being difficult for no good reason. I made some very simple statements, and you are derailing them over and over again. Not to mention the fact that you ignored one of my very first points just so that you could ask me to clarify and reclarify other things.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

I think I found that subject change.

Let's try a third time.

"Pretty much any" negative chat can be punished. "Pretty much any" covers a lot more than just "insults and demeaning others". Would you agree?

HalcyonDwellerFeb 24, 20181 votes

You're still trying to twist the conversation around to force me to say what you want. Not every conversation has to be 'won' you manipulative jackass.

I'm not playing your game. Goodbye.

Awf MetaFeb 24, 20181 votes

Honestly, I don't want you to say anything. I want you to sit back, relax, and digest deez knowledge bombs I am dropping.

riplol87Feb 24, 20181 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDwellerFeb 24, 20181 votes

I didn't flame you on your post, all I did was call out something uncivil that you said, and I didn't even post it in reply to you.

The other user who replied to me there made a joke, I responded with a joke. No flaming involved.

Awf MetaFeb 24, 20181 votes

Thanks for the advice.

I feel like even trolls get lonely some times. Always in moderation.

ConstantiineFeb 24, 20181 votes

its his right to say any thing he wants. whether or not riot chooses to intact their right and not allow him to play is up to them.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 25, 20181 votes

I'm aware of that, I was literally just relaying what I know from Riot's system based on the numerous posts I've seen of people being punished. Riot has made it abundantly clear, what I said there is completely accurate.

SarutobiFeb 23, 20182 votes

Not to sound rude but this is VS Ai we are talking about. For all you know these are people who like a challenge where they try to win games without any items/using certain builds. Its either that or they are botted accounts, which wouldnt get ban until they get the Ban Waves.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not to sound rude but this is VS Ai we are talking about. For all you know these are people who like a challenge where they try to win games without any items/using certain builds. Its either that or they are botted accounts, which wouldnt get ban until they get the Ban Waves.

Are you trying to say:

"Bots are not banned instantly. Trolls that exhibit the same behavior are banned instantly."?

Bottles The PimpFeb 23, 20182 votes

I don't have much experience with and against bots but they usually buy items. That being said what again makes them trolls without their alleged high winrate with no items/no deaths apparently in bots alone since that is all you've shown us?

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bottles The Pimp,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OV9yKyp6,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T13:01:38.822+0000)

I don't have much experience with and against bots but they usually buy items. That being said what again makes them trolls without their alleged high winrate with no items/no deaths apparently in bots alone since that is all you've shown us?

Experience is a pretty good starting point. Even new players are able to gain experience throughout a game. The screen shot I showed you is a level 1-2 after a full game. At the very least, that is 130 games with an AFK.

I chose to focus on this particular account because of the obviousness. 131 consecutive games as an AFK. If Riot is ineffective at stopping the obvious trolls, what makes you think Riot is better at catching the inconspicuous trolls?

Bottles The PimpFeb 23, 20182 votes

But what does it matter is my point lol. They aren't outwardly trolling. They are just botting to level quickly. It's not hurting anyone directly because they aren't talking. They are still winning so having a 4v5 isn't losing new players games. Just report it and move on. You can't call out Riot for not doing something against trolls AND bots while they actually are.

The only points you've made is this account was botting. I guess you or someone you know (judging by the screen shot I guess) flamed the botter even though they didn't even see it. You (or they) got 4x reported and then that screen shot happened. That doesn't mean Riot is against justice for good players. They support player accountability. Just because 1 person did a bad thing doesn't mean the rules fly out of the window. They still apply lol.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

Hang with me this could get long.

But what does it matter is my point lol. They aren't outwardly trolling.

The screen shot I showed is an AFK. Going Afk = trolling. Having no intentions of winning = trolling.

They are just botting to level quickly. It's not hurting anyone directly because they aren't talking.

You think language is the only way to hurt someone? Maybe I can give you some context. I had a game with 2 bots. We had to play 3 on 5. Me and one other person had to lane 1 v 2 the entire game. The third person originally qued jungler. They were literally forced to fill mid, instead. That is 3 people that had a bad experience from these bots. Yet, the bots never said a word.

They are still winning so having a 4v5 isn't losing new players games.

The bots "they", are not winning games. Actual real life people are carrying the new players to victory. Put 3 new players against 5 intermediate bots and the new players will lose.

Just report it and move on.

AKA held hostage.

You can't call out Riot for not doing something against trolls AND bots while they actually are.

Bring me proof Riot does anything about trolls. Every popular case I have seen has taken 100's if not 1,000's of reports until Riot took action.

The only points you've made is this account was botting.

Also, be very careful in chat. If it gets misinterpreted as negative, you can be punished.

I guess you or someone you know (judging by the screen shot I guess) flamed the botter even though they didn't even see it. You (or they) got 4x reported and then that screen shot happened. That doesn't mean Riot is against justice for good players. They support player accountability. Just because 1 person did a bad thing doesn't mean the rules fly out of the window. They still apply lol.

It's rude to assume. What you should have realized, that quote from Riot support means ANY NEGATIVITY can be punished. It's either shut up or be unmistakably positive. Basically, you aren't allowed to be a human being.

Bottles The PimpFeb 23, 20182 votes

AFK trolling no itention of winning trolling

They are a bot and have no frame of reference of winning or trolling. They are literally there to queue into games and not go afk.

You think language is the only way to hurt someone? Maybe I can give you some context. I had a game with 2 bots. We had to play 3 on 5. Me and one other person had to lane 1 v 2 the entire game. The third person originally qued jungler. They were literally forced to fill mid, instead. That is 3 people that had a bad experience from these bots. Yet, the bots never said a word.

If you get offended by that then whatever, but bots only really effect bot games. It's still not that big of a deal. Learning the game is more important than squabbling over a lane. Focus on your champ and not where you're playing it. Having to fill lanes doesn't stop you from playing your champ or winning in bots, and if you go to bots to practice for PvP then I got some bad news for you.

The bots "they", are not winning games. Actual real life people are carrying the new players to victory. Put 3 new players against 5 intermediate bots and the new players will lose.

You took what I said literally. What I mean't was they were still in winning games. Because that is what you complained about. So they haven't negatively effected a game other than you getting triggered by their existence and not just reporting them, but alright.

AKA held hostage.

Not really a bot game lasts like 20 minutes. Just win, report, and move on. Easy. If you want to afk or "get out faster" as you imply just because there is a bot in your game then the problem doesn't end at the bot.

Bring me proof Riot does anything about trolls. Every popular case I have seen has taken 100's if not 1,000's of reports until Riot took action.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation Just keep hitting f5 until it sinks in lol. I'm not saying they get everyone but they're trying.

Also, be very careful in chat. If it gets misinterpreted as negative, you can be punished.

Not really. If you just focus on playing the game rather than going on a crusade you wont get banned. Just use that report button instead of typing, /muteall is also a preferred combination with this.

It's rude to assume. What you should have realized, that quote from Riot support means ANY NEGATIVITY can be punished. It's either shut up or be unmistakably positive. Basically, you aren't allowed to be a human being.

It's a support ticket. So unless someone you know or you yourself had this come to you I don't see any other way that you could've had this screen shot that JUST SO HAPPENS to coincide with your underlying points whatever they may be, and I'm fine with that. I mean I'm snarky too, but you don't have to go overboard with it; it's not a big deal. Like Riot says "Everyone has their bad games" people just burn through their chances then sit around saying "Wtf Rito y ban".

They can miss their mark sometimes but come on. It's not that big of a deal they're trying at least. All I can say is just report the bots. Otherwise your just screaming in the chat ruining everyone else's game. Which is probably what the person(not you) was complaining about. I understand your frustration but in the end what did it actually do to you personally.

Nothing really.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

While this is really frustrating to players in your position (particularly newbies), it is done so that the botters have a difficult or impossible time figuring out how Riot is catching them, because they would use that information to adjust their programs and evade detection and consequently ruin many many more games and profit immensely while dealing great damage to the game beyond a few days or a couple weeks at low levels.

Oh, you mean like the bot I've been stalking that is over 300 games in? They were pretty clever after all, this bot actually bought items. I shouldn't worry though, Riot totally has the situation under control. They are letting this bot go on for over 300 games because they don't want them to know how they were caught.

ignoring, muting, and reporting them doesn't fix any damage they did, but it does help improve the match at hand for you and reporting helps get them removed from the community so others don't have to deal with the same thing.

Unless, Riot doesn't want them to know how they got caught. Then they will continue to do the same thing to other people for over 300 games. Or, this is a stretch, Riot won't punish the trolls EVER.

P.S. The bot has already stopped playing, the only reason this would happen is if it already got banned, so I'm not going to submit another ticket since it won't help, but I do think I'd like to make a post proposing the change to the ban wave.

Just because the bot stops playing, does not mean it has been banned. The particular account I screen shot, took a 4 day break at one point.

P.S. abbreviating my name is negative. Using my full name is positive.

Bottles The PimpFeb 23, 20184 votes

Oh, you mean like the bot I've been stalking that is over 300 games in? They were pretty clever after all, this bot actually bought items. I shouldn't worry though, Riot totally has the situation under control. They are letting this bot go on for over 300 games because they don't want them to know how they were caught.

He also just told you Riot bans bots in waves. You realize how many games you can play if you play nonstop everyday for like 18-20 minutes. Game number means nothing. Nami said it was more of an eventuality rather than a probability.

Unless, Riot doesn't want them to know how they got caught. Then they will continue to do the same thing to other people for over 300 games. Or, this is a stretch, Riot won't punish the trolls EVER.

That's not how it works. Nothing is 100% bot proof 100% of the time. What he was saying is they ban them in waves to delay their bot working and it not working. Making it harder for them to fix it.

I still don't see why it matters honestly it's literally just bot games. Like yea it's annoying to see people taking the easy way out, but screaming in chat at a player that isn't even there is the definition of pointless, and is probably ruining the game for people that are not botting. There are a lot of impressionable new players that see that and get a bad impression of league. Just report and move on. It's going to be ok lol.

Imperial PandaaFeb 23, 20182 votes

Why didn't you actually reply to DTN as opposed to just quoting? I don't think it notifies without the click of reply.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OV9yKyp6,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-02-23T19:10:29.817+0000)

Why didn't you actually reply to DTN as opposed to just quoting? I don't think it notifies without the click of reply.

How do you know I didn't reply to DTN? DTN is a moderator. Even if there was no notification, they would most likely see it anyways.

Imperial PandaaFeb 23, 20182 votes

Because I am in discussion view, which shows the connecting comments/posts. Yours, while quoting, is not actually attached which wouldn't let them know you replied. DTN would only know you replied if they happened to check the thread again.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

I see what you mean. Maybe I hit quote instead of reply. What do you suggest I do?

Imperial PandaaFeb 23, 20181 votes

Happens. We can always just ping his post with a random comment so he knows to check.

I wear GivenchyFeb 23, 20181 votes

China Riot doesn't care

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20184 votes

Riot is an American company based in Los Angeles, California. What are you smoking?

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Riot is an American company based in Los Angeles, California. What are you smoking?

https://www.tencent.com/en-us/index.html

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20184 votes

Tencent owns Riot's Shares, but Riot still makes their own decisions. We would have seen evidence of Tencent's influence a long time ago if they were controlling Riot's decisions about the game.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20182 votes

Tencent didn't own Riot "a long time ago".
Whether/how Tencent influences the companies THEY OWN is not public knowledge.
I was merely explaining the "China Riot" reference. Riot has a Chinese connection because they are owned by a Chinese company.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20184 votes

"On December 16, 2015, Riot Games sold its remaining equity to Tencent Holdings."

That remaining equity was like 7% of their shares. Tencent already owned the other 93%, and thus would have had "shareholder control" of the company already long before that point. We didn't see evidence of Tencent forcing Riot's hand before 12/16/15 and we didn't see it afterwards either. Riot has made a lot of questionable choices about the game, but those choices are their own, not Tencent's.

TrulyBlandFeb 23, 20183 votes

Even before the 93% Tencent had the majority for a while. And even before they had the majority they already owned a decent amount of shares. Had to look up the exact dates on Wikipedia, but here's the relevant timeline:

In 2008, Riot Games obtained initial funding of US$7 million provided by venture capital firms Benchmark Capital and FirstMark Capital. In a second round of funding in 2009, the company raised $8 million from Benchmark, FirstMark, and Chinese technology company Tencent Holdings. In early 2011, Tencent Holdings bought out a majority stake in Riot Games.

So in reality Tencent could have forced Riot's hand way earlier, not even a full two years after the release of LoL.

Edit, in case one doesn't trust Wikipedia as a source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-02-04/tencent-said-to-be-near-deal-to-buy-riot-games-for-more-than-350-million

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20181 votes

Thanks for that, I didn't have the rest of the information about when Tencent got majority holdings. 'Preciate your contribution! +1

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

In my opinion, Tencent has not owned Riot "a long time".
You have literally zero idea what Tencent is doing with their PRIVATE companies
This entire chain started from a joke that you took too seriously.

TrulyBlandFeb 23, 20182 votes

7 years, which is over 80% of the time since LoL was released, does not qualify as "a long time" to you?

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes

How long has Tencent owned 100% of the shares?

7 years is teetering on "long time" in my opinion. Depends on which perspective I want to use really.

ConstantiineFeb 24, 20182 votes

you dont need 100% of the shares to be the controlling interest aka owner. the person with 93% is the owner, the person with 7% is a share holder.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 23, 20182 votes

They have since 2011 essentially. See TrulyBland's comment, they even linked the article.
neither do you.
whether the original comment was intended as a joke or not is debatable.

Awf MetaFeb 23, 20181 votes