Advice for not flaming when jungler will not gank losing lane?

AMADEUSdotEXE··3 votes·3,802 views

Nothing else really gets me as irritated as this. Its extremely common in Bronze, at least from my perspective .(Not just in MY lanes, others. Sometimes I have to gank FOR THEM. Which is just sad that I have to leave my lane just to do the junglers job because they're too busy camping the lane thats already won by a longshot.) It will occasionally make me start flaming them for being incompetent or whatever comes to mind first. Then i proceed to take thier jungle camps and powerfarm other lanes until they either gank, or i catch up and put them behind. I've taken this advice from people on these boards actually, and i find it a good way to catch up instead of roaming trying to get kills, missing cs, and dying because jg doesnt wanna help. Anyways... Help?

Edit: I'm not really getting everything that's being said, like some of the stuff isnt related that much to not flaming them. I dont know why or really care why this is getting downvotes but I do appreciate the advice anyways so thanks.

29 Comments

Piltover Customs10 votes

Theory behind not ganking losing lanes from Plat + perspective: Even if you help them get ahead, they are bad and will continue to be bad. Helping winning lanes destroy even more means they can achieve more and possibly further gank. If you get the ADC far enough ahead (and they are the one that is winning to begin with), then they can 1v2 and allow the support to make plays other places.

If the losing lane is losing a 1v1 or 2v2, getting them gold/experience up probably won't help much if they are still a bad player (the reason they lost the lane to begin with)

Too long; didn't read: Losing lanes need to learn how to get carried instead of trying to carry. Flaming helps no one and no reason to do so. Helping winning lanes get further ahead and snowball the rest of the game instead of wasting time trying to recover one lane.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Piltover Customs,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NZQTrrTV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-22T00:51:43.189+0000)

Theory behind not ganking losing lanes from Plat + perspective: Even if you help them get ahead, they are bad and will continue to be bad. Helping winning lanes destroy even more means they can achieve more and possibly further gank. If you get the ADC far enough ahead (and they are the one that is winning to begin with), then they can 1v2 and allow the support to make plays other places.

If the losing lane is losing a 1v1 or 2v2, getting them gold/experience up probably won't help much if they are still a bad player (the reason they lost the lane to begin with)

Too long; didn't read: Losing lanes need to learn how to get carried instead of trying to carry. Flaming helps no one and no reason to do so. Helping winning lanes get further ahead and snowball the rest of the game instead of wasting time trying to recover one lane.

So i'm going to add in therespect that your Plat+ in my tone, But Im pretty sure that just because someone makes a misplay or gets ganked/counterpicked doesnt make them bad right??? I mean not everyone can win every lane and every lane. i don't know, thanks i guess though.

Piltover Customs2 votes

Im pretty sure that just because someone makes a misplay or gets ganked/counterpicked doesnt make them bad right??? I mean not everyone can win every lane and every lane. i don't know, thanks i guess though.

Don't get me wrong if it's because they were ganked or something along the lines, by all means you swing by and try to counter-gank/re-even it. If you are jungling and haven't even finished your first route and you hear Enemy First Blood, start looking to ignore that lane.

If someone is counterpicked doesn't mean too terrible much if that person knows how to play from behind/play that matchup.

The biggest thing in league of legends that people below Diamond don't realize is that you carry some and you get carried some. People have to realize they can't carry every game and just learn how to get carried.

FURTHERMORE I've read some of the replies and most people are in agreement with most of what I said. Without looking at the one that said he disagrees with ganking a losing lane, I'd assume he is mid plat or higher.

Ganking losing lanes when you are a higher tier can be more beneficial as by that point of the ELO most people will know how to play from behind and it can change the outcome much greater.

As for your question about resources in reference to:

{quoted}

It's a waste of resources most of the time to gank the losing lane.

Resources is mainly referencing time investment/player investment. Say you spend a minute (which is a lot) to gank top lane (making sure there is no ward and waiting for the right push in/out) and your gank on a lane that's behind nets you no kill.

  1. You Took experience from your laner
  2. You could of spent that minute getting 200-300~ gold from jungle camps
  3. You could of spent that minute getting a kill in another lane + tower/dragon/rift

Managing your time is a big factor into how well you do as a whole. Backing at the appropriate time so you miss less cs/gold/harassment. As a devourer jungler, getting your sated earlier so you can snowball Getting your big item/item spike (Trinity Force, Guinsoos, Infinity Edge, DeathCap)

By backing with appropriate gold, keeping up your pace/speed, getting successful gank timing downs, all these small things you learn as you play and make you a better player :)

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Piltover Customs,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NZQTrrTV,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-22T02:36:08.043+0000)

Don't get me wrong if it's because they were ganked or something along the lines, by all means you swing by and try to counter-gank/re-even it. If you are jungling and haven't even finished your first route and you hear Enemy First Blood, start looking to ignore that lane.

If someone is counterpicked doesn't mean too terrible much if that person knows how to play from behind/play that matchup.

The biggest thing in league of legends that people below Diamond don't realize is that you carry some and you get carried some. People have to realize they can't carry every game and just learn how to get carried.

FURTHERMORE I've read some of the replies and most people are in agreement with most of what I said. Without looking at the one that said he disagrees with ganking a losing lane, I'd assume he is mid plat or higher.

Ganking losing lanes when you are a higher tier can be more beneficial as by that point of the ELO most people will know how to play from behind and it can change the outcome much greater.

As for your question about resources in reference to:

Resources is mainly referencing time investment/player investment. Say you spend a minute (which is a lot) to gank top lane (making sure there is no ward and waiting for the right push in/out) and your gank on a lane that's behind nets you no kill.

  1. You Took experience from your laner
  2. You could of spent that minute getting 200-300~ gold from jungle camps
  3. You could of spent that minute getting a kill in another lane + tower/dragon/rift

Managing your time is a big factor into how well you do as a whole. Backing at the appropriate time so you miss less cs/gold/harassment. As a devourer jungler, getting your sated earlier so you can snowball Getting your big item/item spike (Trinity Force, Guinsoos, Infinity Edge, DeathCap)

By backing with appropriate gold, keeping up your pace/speed, getting successful gank timing downs, all these small things you learn as you play and make you a better player :)

THANK YOU. I'm a support main in ranked so i totally underastand the carry logic. This is the answer i've been looking for thanks!!!

BladeSteel6 votes

9 times out of 10 you shouldn't gank a losing lane, because you can't trust the laner to be able to follow up on the gank at the proper time. If they don't follow up at the right time the enemy gets a double kill and are even more fed. Its better to gank the lanes that are ahead to get yourself ahead and the lane.

Senate2 votes

The 1 out of 10 is having hard CC or knowing that you can cripple them with a combo.

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

Or being strong enough to solo the enemy laner without assistance during the game.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

{quoted}

9 times out of 10 you shouldn't gank a losing lane, because you can't trust the laner to be able to follow up on the gank at the proper time. If they don't follow up at the right time the enemy gets a double kill and are even more fed. Its better to gank the lanes that are ahead to get yourself ahead and the lane.

Okay hold on, I should have worded this differently, by losing I meant i wasn't actually able to fight him or farm safley but I had not actually fed him yet. (I gave up on asking for help after my first death (also i did not flame this game, I just gave up on help and got myself back into the game with cs.) So he wasnt actually fed IF that matters, at all in response to that. But i guess i get what you mean.

LostFr0st5 votes

Please read my whole post before responding: It's a waste of resources most of the time to gank the losing lane.
You're often better off to snowball another lane and come back to the losing lane with backup from the one you snowballed later on. This will have a much greater success rate at bringing that lane back.

A jungler gets ahead through either farming or successful ganks; taking a risky one on a losing lane is often counterproductive, especially if it goes sour.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

{quoted}

Please read my whole post before responding: It's a waste of resources most of the time to gank the losing lane.
You're often better off to snowball another lane and come back to the losing lane with backup from the one you snowballed later on. This will have a much greater success rate at bringing that lane back.

A jungler gets ahead through either farming or successful ganks; taking a risky one on a losing lane is often counterproductive, especially if it goes sour.

1st off I did read it, thanks for the explanation. I don't really understand what you mean by resources... So should I just ignore them as well and take their farm since i cant farm under tower which is my usual solution? I managed to farm my way back into the game after about 20 minutes of farming and ignoring just about every teamfight and was able to contribute well around 35 minutes. Also just to add this in, they actually did snowball the other lanes, but still didnt actually help me until they realized what a 5/0 tanky Sion felt like.

FrankerX1 votes

recourse means you as jungler waste time, gold exp and pressure on the map.

LostFr0st1 votes

Resources in the jungler's case is measured by time and exp. Hit tab.
If your jungle is behind on levels they really shouldn't gank for you or the losing lane. They are better off being in a buddy system with the powerful allies from the winning lane and moving around with them. Forget gold. It's important but not nearly as important as exp for a jungler.

Since the jungle roams a ton the most important thing for them is to stay up on levels, usually done by farming or ganking and helping the laner push the last minion wave out before they both back. Pinging jungle away after a gank is the worst possible thing you can do as a laner.

If you're low on mana or health the best thing the jungle can do for you is a "false gank" where they show up, scare the laner off and help you push out by lowering the minion hp and letting you back.

Viperjcs19852 votes

If a lane loses badly, chance are they may not be a good player. The risk for ganking is now two fold, you risk dying and furthering the feed and you risk getting a bad player buffed. It is better to assist winning lanes and get fed yourself / boost them further.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

{quoted}

If a lane loses badly, chance are they may not be a good player. The risk for ganking is now two fold, you risk dying and furthering the feed and you risk getting a bad player buffed. It is better to assist winning lanes and get fed yourself / boost them further.

What If the lane is losing by strength (ex. post 6 Trundle fighting Riven) but not deaths? Or maybe like 1? Would that be worth ganking?

Viperjcs19851 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mogeko Magica,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NZQTrrTV,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-04-22T01:53:14.051+0000)

What If the lane is losing by strength (ex. post 6 Trundle fighting Riven) but not deaths? Or maybe like 1? Would that be worth ganking?

Yes it would be worth ganking if it is simply a champ imbalance and your team champ has a chance of snowballing or countering their team harder. There is a difference of being 0-1 or 1-2 in a lane versus 0-3. 0-1 or 1-2 is barely losing a lane and could be considered even if they died to a jg gank. Also gotta look at CS.

YumScrumptious962 votes

Losing lanes are losing for a reason, they aren't able to play well. That means the 1 kill or turret you get them as jungler won't help because their opposing laner(s) will still win in the end. Ganking a winning lane will put them even further ahead and capable of carrying. At the point when the opposing laner(s) is/are up by 2 kills its pretty much a lost lane unless multiple members of the team roam to save it. The jungler will not risk dying and giving a double kill because it sets them behind, and puts the lane even more behind. Unless you are very fed like 3/0/2 when you gank, it won't help, hence why junglers don't waste time on losing lanes.

KrushakArrankiss2 votes

Mute them if you need to. That's what I do. Your best bet is to gank whatever lane IS winning. Any lane that 3/0 or 3 kills ahead should not be ganked or YOU will fall behind to. Now unless, you are me and play Sion as main. I usually do say if bot is losing, I tell the jungler to go around behind dragon(If we're in the upper right corner) or make sure bot lane pinks tri bush if in the lower left corner. So I can charge down lane as Sion and they converge. If you can pick up a few kills for hte losing lane. This is how i got out of B5 when I skipped Season 5. I started to play Sion and started to help gank with the jungler and then TP back. Especially if I am winning my lane/making my lane oppoent go back. Sion has a strong presence. It's also why I like jungle Sion because of the fact he doesn't need to come down rivers to gank. He can come right up the lane and be right in there.

Even though I am only S1, I will guarentee you if you watch any of Pants Are Dragon vids. He says to mute them and do not gank a losing lane. Explain why you are not ganking them and if they throw a fit then mute them. If they are throwing such a fit to tell you go kill yourself, your worthless and etc. Then report them for unsportmanlike conduct and or verbal abuse and move on. I used to be like those who woudl be like OMG JUNGLER YOU SUCK or OMG I WENT 12/0 AND YOU ALL FED YOU ARE ALL WORTHLESS. That's why I backed out of S5 to regather myself and as wlel play other MOBAS.

You just have to try to be more positive and tell them to be. There has been plenty of times where almost all lanes are losing but mine and I tell them we have enough CC to control team fights. We have enough CC to WIN THIS. Just farm and be careful. We started to pick off like top laner who kept pushing to our second turretn and got fed off the gold. You just have to try to be positive and try to crush the negaitivity. Espeically if the support is like OMG OUR ADC IS TRASH. Tell them like that totally makes your lane partner to do better. You know try to tell them they aren't helping the cause. Hope this helps.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

{quoted}

Mute them if you need to. That's what I do. Your best bet is to gank whatever lane IS winning. Any lane that 3/0 or 3 kills ahead should not be ganked or YOU will fall behind to. Now unless, you are me and play Sion as main. I usually do say if bot is losing, I tell the jungler to go around behind dragon(If we're in the upper right corner) or make sure bot lane pinks tri bush if in the lower left corner. So I can charge down lane as Sion and they converge. If you can pick up a few kills for hte losing lane. This is how i got out of B5 when I skipped Season 5. I started to play Sion and started to help gank with the jungler and then TP back. Especially if I am winning my lane/making my lane oppoent go back. Sion has a strong presence. It's also why I like jungle Sion because of the fact he doesn't need to come down rivers to gank. He can come right up the lane and be right in there.

Even though I am only S1, I will guarentee you if you watch any of Pants Are Dragon vids. He says to mute them and do not gank a losing lane. Explain why you are not ganking them and if they throw a fit then mute them. If they are throwing such a fit to tell you go kill yourself, your worthless and etc. Then report them for unsportmanlike conduct and or verbal abuse and move on. I used to be like those who woudl be like OMG JUNGLER YOU SUCK or OMG I WENT 12/0 AND YOU ALL FED YOU ARE ALL WORTHLESS. That's why I backed out of S5 to regather myself and as wlel play other MOBAS.

You just have to try to be more positive and tell them to be. There has been plenty of times where almost all lanes are losing but mine and I tell them we have enough CC to control team fights. We have enough CC to WIN THIS. Just farm and be careful. We started to pick off like top laner who kept pushing to our second turretn and got fed off the gold. You just have to try to be positive and try to crush the negaitivity. Espeically if the support is like OMG OUR ADC IS TRASH. Tell them like that totally makes your lane partner to do better. You know try to tell them they aren't helping the cause. Hope this helps.

Thank you great advice! I really dont wanna get restricted again.

Ada Wong1 votes

Just don't talk, because most the time it leads to an argument.

1.) Understanding why you are losing. 2.) Knowing your ability's your ally's skills, and its important to note what jungler your team has as well as what champions they are playing.

3.) Counter warding is important to make sure your jungler isn't seen when going in this is the act of making sure vision wards are down and the enemy has no vision in the very least tri-bush at all times so defensive/aggressive plays can be sneak in from behind as well as denying ward in first bush by tower if doing that type of play.

4.) Having a useless support, Siona Support, Annie Support, there are better depending on how your lane is losing for example having a braum, can be useless compared to having a Sona, or Leona, the problem is that (You need to be able to execute a skill/combo within 1 second or less if that.) if you can't do this you need serious training I mean all players in general because this is something that can determine a fight lost or won or enemy escaping etc.

5.) Understanding what skills your enemy has up, do they have flash, ignite, what ultimate they have up etc, there are dozens of examples and lots of lines of text of why I could explain this is super important.

6.) knowing the position of the enemy jungler at the time your jungler helps.

7.) Knowing who your jungler is what they can actually do for example a (Master YI) can go all in) ignore slows for example which means that if a braum is there he pretty much is useless to his mate if half HP and over extended, meanwhile if your (Support is Leona) / Sona and plays it correctly and you follow all this plus enemy is half HP you have a chance of winning the fight, otherwise you need to know what to do when you have other champions like "Sejuani" she is like playing a support, but she isn't going to be able to dive the best tactic around this would be to go something like Katarina, and just go bot lane and combo them at the same time 4 bot lane roam = win every time, heck you can even do little dives / resets with kat or akali if you team knows what they are doing a lot of times I would dive with Katarina at 6 get 2-3 kills and die because my mate doesn't understand that if they stayed within turret range I could E out on to them and live but enemy gets 300 free gold because of that.

But honestly good luck explaining all this to someone in bronze its just never going to win without a big argument / fight your better off putting together a pre-made team of 4-5 players even 3 players is better than 0 who actually know what they are doing.

A really good jungler especially in bronze that personally works a lot for me unless the enemy gets massively ahead, or takes something like Volibear / UDYR (Akali) and (LeeSin) Lee-sin because he can easily just rekt people early/mid game, even counter jungle pretty damn hard I might actually try a new tactic of taking (Teleport / Smite) as a jungler for the purpose of getting to a losing lane faster that is about to die, the problem though they don't always ward so good luck explaining that one too, because half the time people would argue how useless teleport is on a Jungler, or why taking Smite, or Exhaust top is useless.

And personally I disagree with not helping a losing lane, (If your team and players actually have some brains) its better to group or do something early than later but if not then there isn't much a JG can do themselves especially if they have to sit down and type an essay out for the 2 bot players for example to understand anything.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ada Wong,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NZQTrrTV,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-22T01:21:58.117+0000)

Just don't talk, because most the time it leads to an argument.

1.) Understanding why you are losing. 2.) Knowing your ability's your ally's skills, and its important to note what jungler your team has as well as what champions they are playing.

3.) Counter warding is important to make sure your jungler isn't seen when going in this is the act of making sure vision wards are down and the enemy has no vision in the very least tri-bush at all times so defensive/aggressive plays can be sneak in from behind as well as denying ward in first bush by tower if doing that type of play.

4.) Having a useless support, Siona Support, Annie Support, there are better depending on how your lane is losing for example having a braum, can be useless compared to having a Sona, or Leona, the problem is that (You need to be able to execute a skill/combo within 1 second or less if that.) if you can't do this you need serious training I mean all players in general because this is something that can determine a fight lost or won or enemy escaping etc.

5.) Understanding what skills your enemy has up, do they have flash, ignite, what ultimate they have up etc, there are dozens of examples and lots of lines of text of why I could explain this is super important.

6.) knowing the position of the enemy jungler at the time your jungler helps.

7.) Knowing who your jungler is what they can actually do for example a (Master YI) can go all in) ignore slows for example which means that if a braum is there he pretty much is useless to his mate if half HP and over extended, meanwhile if your (Support is Leona) / Sona and plays it correctly and you follow all this plus enemy is half HP you have a chance of winning the fight, otherwise you need to know what to do when you have other champions like "Sejuani" she is like playing a support, but she isn't going to be able to dive the best tactic around this would be to go something like Katarina, and just go bot lane and combo them at the same time 4 bot lane roam = win every time, heck you can even do little dives / resets with kat or akali if you team knows what they are doing a lot of times I would dive with Katarina at 6 get 2-3 kills and die because my mate doesn't understand that if they stayed within turret range I could E out on to them and live but enemy gets 300 free gold because of that.

But honestly good luck explaining all this to someone in bronze its just never going to win without a big argument / fight your better off putting together a pre-made team of 4-5 players even 3 players is better than 0 who actually know what they are doing.

A really good jungler especially in bronze that personally works a lot for me unless the enemy gets massively ahead, or takes something like Volibear / UDYR (Akali) and (LeeSin) Lee-sin because he can easily just rekt people early/mid game, even counter jungle pretty damn hard I might actually try a new tactic of taking (Teleport / Smite) as a jungler for the purpose of getting to a losing lane faster that is about to die, the problem though they don't always ward so good luck explaining that one too, because half the time people would argue how useless teleport is on a Jungler, or why taking Smite, or Exhaust top is useless.

And personally I disagree with not helping a losing lane, (If your team and players actually have some brains) its better to group or do something early than later but if not then there isn't much a JG can do themselves especially if they have to sit down and type an essay out for the 2 bot players for example to understand anything.

I actually did that, I stopped talking completely unless I had something important to say. thanks btw

FrankerX1 votes

dont press enter.

best advice to not flame

FrankerX1 votes

i once played warwick jungle my top was renekton vs vlad

not even 5 min in the game rene was 0/6 and flamed me for not ganking. so i told him to farm save i gank when im 6 when i came to top he was 0/9, we went in ofc vlad got a doublekill in 2v1 and the rene flamed me even more.

since then i learned never to waste my time with losing lanes. if you cant win your lane without your jungler... go back to bronze.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

{quoted}

i once played warwick jungle my top was renekton vs vlad

not even 5 min in the game rene was 0/6 and flamed me for not ganking. so i told him to farm save i gank when im 6 when i came to top he was 0/9, we went in ofc vlad got a doublekill in 2v1 and the rene flamed me even more.

since then i learned never to waste my time with losing lanes. if you cant win your lane without your jungler... go back to bronze.

Im already there unfortunately

FrankerX1 votes

well that sucks lol i mean roaming (as mid or support) is a good thing when you have some free time always help your lanes. but just try to ignore the losing lanes. its just a timewaste :/

Communist Toast1 votes

if you are losing a lane, that means the enemies of course are stronger than you (naturally)

so why would a jungle want to go in against fed enemies? just to die as well? and then you can flame on him for coming?

help the good lanes get better. the losing lanes need to learn to stop fighting the enemy and play it safe if they are losing.

Remember you don't have to win your lane to win, you just can't lose it.

I had a game as jungle recently. our bot was a blitz and ashe I think? but before we even were level 6, they died a combined 6-7 times. Blitz was flaming me hard about never coming to gank his lane. saying I needed to "learn to jungle"

Icestar11861 votes

Don't press enter?

Realistically, roaming to another lane isn't an unreasonable thing to do. Any midlane assassin and some supports, mages, and toplaners do it on a regular basis.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

Junglers aren't supposed to gank a losing lane you know that right? The only solution is for the person losing lane to not lose lane. If you want to play ranked, you should be able to win lane (or at least go even) with your lane opponent in any situation (bad champ matchup, getting camped, etc).

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