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Gross negligence

This Is Your Dad··3 votes·412 views

My last game was with a kindred jungler that went 0/7/1. Now if this were a laner, or if this person was invaded I could excuse this, but going 0/7/1 and just having no idea how your champion works at all in a ranked game seems like, as the title says, gross negligence. I wish sometimes that in order to play a champion in ranked you needed to have played a certain number of normal matches so that you could grasp the general concept behind your champion. I know this is never going to happen, but it doesn't stop me from throwing my hands in the air with how ridiculously silly a game gets when someone displays absolutely no intelligence when it comes to champion mechanics. I'm not talking about missing abilities or lack of skill. I'm not talking about getting outplayed or facing a counter. I'm talking strictly about players that without a doubt don't have a clue what their kit does. They become such a detriment that it is literally better if they afk than continue to do what they're doing. The only reason kindred even got the last assist was because you get assists by using a single ability or autoattack. I don't believe this player is bad at the game at all. He was building to counter the heavy ap on the opposing team. But he had absolutely, unequivocally no idea what he was doing the entirety of the game. Edit: Let me know how your views differ from mine. Downvotes are okay, but I'd like to know your thoughts.

30 Comments

Magical Player1 votes

well lets start did they die in the jungle? did they get invaded? did they get countered jungled? did they get counter ganked? did they gank fail?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-09T04:13:08.251+0000)

well lets start did they die in the jungle? did they get invaded? did they get countered jungled? did they get counter ganked? did they gank fail?

Well I said they were not counterjungled or invaded. There were no executes either. It was all on the gank fail. It wasn't even a gank though. For instance, enemy jinx was soloing a dragon and kindred used a plant to jump over the wall and not only did he not smite, he died in about 2 seconds because his hp was near 1/5.

Magical Player1 votes

So they had a bad game

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T05:49:41.333+0000)

So they had a bad game

It wasn't a bad game. It was total lack of experience. I've already explained why I believe this to be the case.

Magical Player1 votes

So a bad game

They were not intent feeding, they were having a bad game they were not trolling, they were having a bad game

Unless you think they were trolling or feeding, it is a bad game

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T06:11:33.139+0000)

So a bad game

They were not intent feeding, they were having a bad game they were not trolling, they were having a bad game

Unless you think they were trolling or feeding, it is a bad game

Playing a ranked game with a champion you have no experience with is exactly what this post implies: gross negligence. This post isn't about punishing a player for a bad game. This post is about placing bars on champion selection so that certain criteria are required to be met to reduce the amount of players first timing in ranked without creating a punishment system.

Magical Player1 votes

So you know for a fact, 100% certain that the user was 1st timing the hero.

Lets go to the criteria A) it makes everyone never have another bad game B) it keeps people from making life choices(drinking smoking etc) then going into league C) Prevents all bad players from entering a game

Is this what you want?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T14:32:54.205+0000)

So you know for a fact, 100% certain that the user was 1st timing the hero.

Lets go to the criteria A) it makes everyone never have another bad game B) it keeps people from making life choices(drinking smoking etc) then going into league C) Prevents all bad players from entering a game

Is this what you want?

Like I've said before, this is the first time in 15 games that I considered this person inexperienced. I've had many games in between this and the last game with a galio that this happened with bad players. It does not prevent bad players from entering a game. I did not say anywhere in my post that I would like to ban a player from ranked.

Magical Player1 votes

No where Did I say you wanted to ban a player from ranked

So you'd rather have a bad player over a 1st timer? When is a user suppose to play If we don't allow them to play a hero for the 1st time?

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T18:49:42.015+0000)

No where Did I say you wanted to ban a player from ranked

So you'd rather have a bad player over a 1st timer? When is a user suppose to play If we don't allow them to play a hero for the 1st time?

Autofill is a valid point. That would require more than Riot would be willing to force onto other players.

destinedaboss1 votes

If you play ranked with a champ you have zero skill with, that is in fact intentional feeding/intentional losing. If you feed every game (last 20 in match history) and blame lag ((when you know you lag every single game)) that is int as well. Too bad Riot wont do anything about it.

Magical Player1 votes

lets talk about skill How do we quantify skill? Do we base it in the users champ mastery? the users base stats? Rank? Where do we begin to judge anothers skill?

destinedaboss1 votes

first time playing a champ in ranked and going 0/10/0 is int

Magical Player1 votes

So I can have 900 games 100% win rate in norms/bots/custom But If I have 1 bad ranked game, this being my 1st ranked game ever I am intenting. DO you not see the problem

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T23:18:20.119+0000)

So I can have 900 games 100% win rate in norms/bots/custom But If I have 1 bad ranked game, this being my 1st ranked game ever I am intenting. DO you not see the problem

I think you are missing the point. My assessment wasn't of his skill level as a player. It was the fact that he seemed to have game knowledge, but absolutely no knowledge of his champion. In my opponent mid laner's words: "He's itemizing right, and I can't see him intentionally feeding or trolling, but he has no grasp of mechanics." None. 0. It's not "oh he uses his q and e right but messes up his ult in teamfights." It's quite literally: He messes up everything.

Magical Player1 votes

Aight, I see where I got mislead :D

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T23:18:20.119+0000)

So I can have 900 games 100% win rate in norms/bots/custom But If I have 1 bad ranked game, this being my 1st ranked game ever I am intenting. DO you not see the problem

Just for clarity, I'm not getting mad at you. I asked for your opinion and am just having a discussion with you. I appreciate the discussion. It's not that I don't approve of or understand your opinion.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

first time playing a champ in ranked and going 0/10/0 is int

It's not really intentionally feeding. He was trying to play, he just had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

Chønklord1 votes

{quoted}

If you play ranked with a champ you have zero skill with, that is in fact intentional feeding/intentional losing.

No. You're confused. There's a difference between skill and knowledge. Just because you don't know a champion or its abilities, doesn't mean you don't have the prerequisite mechanical skill to play it on the fly, even first time in ranked.

If you feed every game (last 20 in match history) and blame lag ((when you know you lag every single game)) that is int as well. Too bad Riot wont do anything about it.

There's a difference between intentional feeding, and just feeding -- i.e. playing poorly, being bad, doing bad, etc.

Anyway back to the OP's point; while I do think you should be allowed to play whatever you want in Ranked, I do feel that having a threshold # of games played on champs before entering ranked might alleviate some of the problems a lot of players face in ranked with others having bad games/playing poorly on their selected champ.

The issue though is what was brought up about trading ability in lobby. Perhaps changing the system around to where you trade first then lock in.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-04-10T01:19:06.899+0000)

No. You're confused. There's a difference between skill and knowledge. Just because you don't know a champion or its abilities, doesn't mean you don't have the prerequisite mechanical skill to play it on the fly, even first time in ranked.

There's a difference between intentional feeding, and just feeding -- i.e. playing poorly, being bad, doing bad, etc.

Anyway back to the OP's point; while I do think you should be allowed to play whatever you want in Ranked, I do feel that having a threshold # of games played on champs before entering ranked might alleviate some of the problems a lot of players face in ranked with others having bad games/playing poorly on their selected champ.

The issue though is what was brought up about trading ability in lobby. Perhaps changing the system around to where you trade first then lock in.

Actually that's a great idea, have a player ask to trade during the pre-selection countdown, and then another player accepts or rejects the trade, and it occurs automatically after you select the person's preferred champion. You may only select a champion that your trade partner is currently hovering over, and the trade will happen automatically so you can't force stop the trade. The only champions that the second guy could hover over would be those owned by the first player, that he has appropriate mastery of. If the first person opted to trade, he chooses from the champion pool the other player possesses, while requiring the experience to play said champ. Seems really complicated, but I'm trying to plug all the holes.

leaugesbane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NU25Tcvl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-09T04:13:08.251+0000)

well lets start did they die in the jungle? did they get invaded? did they get countered jungled? did they get counter ganked? did they gank fail?

probably all of the above honestly he probably was tilted and did it to be toxic and best yet hes probably gonna do it 100 more times before being banned all because he didnt use chat

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

probably all of the above honestly he probably was tilted and did it to be toxic and best yet hes probably gonna do it 100 more times before being banned all because he didnt use chat

He was actually friendly enough for me to believe he wasn't tilted.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

A lot of people have brought up a similar idea, regarding players having to play a champion a certain number of times in normal matches prior to playing them in ranked. And for the most part, I agree with you. I really wish there was some way to keep people from playing a champion for the first time in ranked. It is just sooooo inconsiderate to your teammates to play a champion that you as a player know that you don't have the foggiest idea of how to play.

But the main issue that I, and many other people, have with trying to put some sort of limitation or block in champion select that would prevent players from locking a champion they have not played X number of games with, is in the case of trading. I own every champion, but I only play about five of them regularly. If it were just a blanket limit of having to play let's say 10 normal games, that would probably keep me from being able to trade for easily 75% of the champions.

Some people have proposed setting it to where players can simply trade their pick-slots, instead of picking the champions and then trading them. I don't know enough about how the coding for the roles and such is done to know whether something like that is feasible or not. But if you have any other ideas about how something like this could be managed, by all means, toss them out here! We're always looking for more ways to try and address this issue. Maybe if we can come up with a decent potential solution and present it to Riot, they will consider implementing it. It wouldn't be the first time.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

A lot of people have brought up a similar idea, regarding players having to play a champion a certain number of times in normal matches prior to playing them in ranked. And for the most part, I agree with you. I really wish there was some way to keep people from playing a champion for the first time in ranked. It is just sooooo inconsiderate to your teammates to play a champion that you as a player know that you don't have the foggiest idea of how to play.

But the main issue that I, and many other people, have with trying to put some sort of limitation or block in champion select that would prevent players from locking a champion they have not played X number of games with, is in the case of trading. I own every champion, but I only play about five of them regularly. If it were just a blanket limit of having to play let's say 10 normal games, that would probably keep me from being able to trade for easily 75% of the champions.

Some people have proposed setting it to where players can simply trade their pick-slots, instead of picking the champions and then trading them. I don't know enough about how the coding for the roles and such is done to know whether something like that is feasible or not. But if you have any other ideas about how something like this could be managed, by all means, toss them out here! We're always looking for more ways to try and address this issue. Maybe if we can come up with a decent potential solution and present it to Riot, they will consider implementing it. It wouldn't be the first time.

Yea, and the common misconception is that I'm mad at their skill level as a player, and that's just not it. I can tell if you don't know how to use your kit AT ALL compared to you just not being very good with the champion. The last time this happened was about 15 games ago with the release of the new galio that I got a player that didn't know what he was doing at all.

OnlyYouCanHearMe1 votes

I can actually give you an example that relates a bit to your original post from my own personal fubars. I was playing a game with some friends, and I don't remember what mode it was, but we were playing on Summoner's Rift, and one of them had Kindred. And for whatever reason, before the match started, they decided they did not want to play Kindred, I don't recall if it was one of the modes where it picked your champ for you, or if they just didn't want to play the champ they picked, but since it was a normal match, I figured I would be nice and trade with them since they wanted the champ I had. I had never played Kindred before, and while I had an idea of what her abilities did, it definitely wasn't the same as having practice with them. The game came down to a base race, with us having two guys on their nexus, and their super-fed Jinx on ours with me (noobKindred) and the support trying to defend. When Jinx stopped autoattacking our nexus to try and kill our support, I didn't really think about it, I just ulted to keep her alive.... which also kept the Jinx alive. And enabled to kill the nexus and win the game because we couldn't kill her to stop her. That was one of the biggest blunders I've ever made in a game, because I literally lost the game in the click of a single button, simply because I didn't know my own kit well enough to realize that while my ult would save my support, it would also keep the Jinx from dying as well. And it was pretty obvious to the entire enemy team that I just had no idea what I was doing with the champion. But I would NEVER take a champ like that into ranked.

I mean, I have champions that I have level 5 and 6 mastery with, that I wouldn't take into ranked right now because it's been too long since I played them, and I don't feel comfortable enough on them.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

I can actually give you an example that relates a bit to your original post from my own personal fubars. I was playing a game with some friends, and I don't remember what mode it was, but we were playing on Summoner's Rift, and one of them had Kindred. And for whatever reason, before the match started, they decided they did not want to play Kindred, I don't recall if it was one of the modes where it picked your champ for you, or if they just didn't want to play the champ they picked, but since it was a normal match, I figured I would be nice and trade with them since they wanted the champ I had. I had never played Kindred before, and while I had an idea of what her abilities did, it definitely wasn't the same as having practice with them. The game came down to a base race, with us having two guys on their nexus, and their super-fed Jinx on ours with me (noobKindred) and the support trying to defend. When Jinx stopped autoattacking our nexus to try and kill our support, I didn't really think about it, I just ulted to keep her alive.... which also kept the Jinx alive. And enabled to kill the nexus and win the game because we couldn't kill her to stop her. That was one of the biggest blunders I've ever made in a game, because I literally lost the game in the click of a single button, simply because I didn't know my own kit well enough to realize that while my ult would save my support, it would also keep the Jinx from dying as well. And it was pretty obvious to the entire enemy team that I just had no idea what I was doing with the champion. But I would NEVER take a champ like that into ranked.

I mean, I have champions that I have level 5 and 6 mastery with, that I wouldn't take into ranked right now because it's been too long since I played them, and I don't feel comfortable enough on them.

See in a nonranked game, I don't care if you play first time lux adc. :P

MisterSki1 votes

I love how people immediately defend trash players and don't just call them out for being garbage. This kindred was trash and will always be trash. They won't get punished ever either which sucks because they ruined the game for four other people. They just didn't ruin it in a way that riot cares about.

Icy Hot Shoto1 votes

Honestly, one of the main reasons why people try a champion for the first time in ranked is because they see YouTuber's doing it, or saying it's their first time on such-and-such champ, so they think they can do it too.

It's rude to do such a thing, and it's rude to assume the person is a first time. However, going 0/7/1 as Kindred seems like more than a bad game to me. Kindred has 2 AOE attacks and an AOE invulnerability/heal. If they're not getting assists then they're trying to do the same thing over and over, which is fighting the enemy by themself and dying too quickly for their team to come clean up.

And THAT is inting/feeding and not just a bad game.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, one of the main reasons why people try a champion for the first time in ranked is because they see YouTuber's doing it, or saying it's their first time on such-and-such champ, so they think they can do it too.

It's rude to do such a thing, and it's rude to assume the person is a first time. However, going 0/7/1 as Kindred seems like more than a bad game to me. Kindred has 2 AOE attacks and an AOE invulnerability/heal. If they're not getting assists then they're trying to do the same thing over and over, which is fighting the enemy by themself and dying too quickly for their team to come clean up.

And THAT is inting/feeding and not just a bad game.

Ironically every time kindred ganked a lane the enemy got a 1v2 double kill. One time ahri was level 7 mid and kindred was level 4 and both ganked my lane and gave rumble a double kill. He didn't get assists because he was as I said, almost worse than an afk. He definitely tried to play.

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