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The current reform system does not do enough to reform players. Here's why:

HalcyonDweller··5 votes·333 views

I see a lot of people post here about getting banned, and plenty of those cases are instances where the person was extremely toxic and definitely deserved the ban.

But some of the cases I've seen involve people who are just bad at controlling their temper, or are not emotionally stable, reacting to trolls or harassment by being toxic themselves.

I believe that these types of players, if given the tools and time to recover and mature, could easily grow into the types of players who do not respond to trolls and harassment with their own toxicity.

For example, I used to trigger extremely hard whenever someone would tell anybody else to "kys" in my games, but in the years since I started playing league I've matured and learned how to handle it without starting a flame war.

This is why I think that upon receiving punishment for toxicity (chat restrictions, 14 day bans, etc. ), players should be given links to guides on how to better handle situations that frustrate them.

P.S. for the record I've never (as far as I can remember) received a punishment in-game. My days of flaming were before the punishment system became more strict. I simply believe that we could do more to guide and shape these players into better people who would not flame one another the instant their team gives up first blood (or makes other similar mistakes).

If you like the idea, remember to leave an up-vote in addition to voting in the poll. Without the upvotes this post will not gain any visibility.

12 Comments

YerroFever7 votes

Riot is in no way responsible for ensuring someone becomes a functional human being in this world.

If you aren't mature enough to understand that actions have consequences and you have to treat everyone in this world like a human being, then that's the problem of the individual, not Riot's problem.

Giving them suggestions on who to go to for their problems not only creates a problem through that referral, it opens themselves up to liability down the line for actions taken by that individual because of the referral.

In Riot's best interest, they should not be suggesting and referring people to self help or even professional help.

For the community's best interest, those that get permabanned should probably never play league again because they're most likely not interested in reforming and becoming a better person. They're probably the kinds of people who stomp their feet and cry because you don't let them do whatever they want to do and call the system unfair and biased.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

You're completely right, however... players that are addicted to league and get banned are just going to make a new account and start all over again. They will just continue the cycle and contribute to the the entry barrier that leaves most new players jaded and bitter about the community before they've even reached level 30.

This is why I believe it would be more effective to link these players to guides long before they even get to the point of permaban. If they get the help they need at the first intervention, it is much more likely that they will stop being toxic and become a functioning member of the community.

YerroFever1 votes

{quoted}

You're completely right, however... players that are addicted to league and get banned are just going to make a new account and start all over again. They will just continue the cycle and contribute to the the entry barrier that leaves most people jaded and bitter about the community before they've even reached level 30.

This is why I believe it would be more effective to link these players to guides long before they even get to the point of permaban. If they get the help they need at the first intervention, it is much more likely that they will stop being toxic and become a functioning member of the community.

I understand that those who are addicted but toxic will keep coming back and keep contributing to the toxic cycle.

Unfortunately, people have to want to change and that won't come from Riot sending them a referral to a certain website or certain professional.

That person has to want to actually change themselves and that's out of Riot's control.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I think it doesn't hurt to try to help them along that path.

I know I would have opened and read a guide titled: "How to deal with toxic or feeding teammates more easily" back in my days of flaming. I suspect that many other people would too.

YerroFever1 votes

{quoted}

I think it doesn't hurt to try to help them along that path.

I know I would have opened and read a guide titled: "How to deal with toxic or feeding teammates more easily" back in my days of flaming. I suspect that many other people would too.

This circles back to the liability issue in my first post.

Problems can arise from referrals to self help and from referrals to professionals. It's actually much better for Riot to just not touch the issue of referrals.

The most they should do is rephrase their cards with things like "It appears you may be having difficulty effectively communicating with your fellow players while frustrated. Therefore, you have received a 10 game chat restriction."

It's addressing that they have a communication problem and nudges them towards the option of actually looking for help themselves but is still enough to keep them out of any trouble because they're not saying "go to site X/Person Y to seek help"

EDIT: I have no idea what kind of message would be used for trolling or inting without being offensive... so that's why I didn't make an example for it, lol...

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That is also a good point.

Riot could provide a video series that explained how and why players are toxic (or troll) and how to interact with them the most effectively to get the cooperation we need (or at least protect our own emotional stability and avoid tilting from those interactions).

As an aside note, assuming it was you who downvoted the post (you're the only person to have responded strongly against it) I'm a little hurt that you killed my post and prevented it from getting visibility or sparking discussion.

YerroFever1 votes

{quoted}

That is also a good point.

Riot could provide a video series that explained how and why players are toxic (or troll) and how to interact with them the most effectively to get the cooperation we need (or at least protect our own emotional stability and avoid tilting from those interactions).

As an aside note, assuming it was you who downvoted the post (you're the only person to have responded strongly against it) I'm a little hurt that you killed my post and prevented it from getting visibility or sparking discussion.

Actually I'm not the one who downvoted. Someone upvoted me and presumably downvoted you?

I typically don't bother with up and downvotes as it feels like it's a passive aggressive way to invalidate someone's statements without addressing them directly. I'd rather actually say something and explain my position rather than skulk in the shadows.

EDIT: also, if you went to any of the gaming conventions, Riot participated in a bunch of them and they still have some of those player behavior presentations on youtube.

Granted most of those videos are actually about the player behavior detection and methods of how to mold behavior, the ones specifically at gaming conventions with fans and not just developers, you'll hear them talk about walking away from the game for a bit or play a non serious mode to cool off. While Lyte worked at Riot, he did talk about the sources of toxicity in some of those presentations and I think they're still in some of the videos.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Actually I'm not the one who downvoted. Someone upvoted me and presumably downvoted you?

I typically don't bother with up and downvotes as it feels like it's a passive aggressive way to invalidate someone's statements without addressing them directly. I'd rather actually say something and explain my position rather than skulk in the shadows.

Ah ok, I did realize this might have been a possibility, which is why I was so muted with my comment about it. My mistake and my apologies for lofting that accusation at you.

EDIT: also, if you went to any of the gaming conventions, Riot participated in a bunch of them and they still have some of those player behavior presentations on youtube.

Granted most of those videos are actually about the player behavior detection and methods of how to mold behavior, the ones specifically at gaming conventions with fans and not just developers, you'll hear them talk about walking away from the game for a bit or play a non serious mode to cool off. While Lyte worked at Riot, he did talk about the sources of toxicity in some of those presentations and I think they're still in some of the videos.

That's cool, I'm glad to see that it has been done (even just a little bit) before. I would really like it if they implemented this!

Drugoth2 votes

Although I believe that the punishment system has proved quite effective, it wouldn't hurt to have resources posted to help toxic players along on their road to reform.

What about something like a toxic players anonymous as a sort of support group exercise. You could get enrolled in said group after getting a 14 day ban. I feel like a support group would be a great step in the right direction.

Although a slap on the wrist is more often than not more than enough to cause a player to reform, there will always be the outliers that resist reform for whatever reasons. Having a program in place to help the the more stubborn guys can't hurt imo.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Although I believe that the punishment system has proved quite effective, it wouldn't hurt to have resources posted to help toxic players along on their road to reform.

What about something like a toxic players anonymous as a sort of support group exercise. You could get enrolled in said group after getting a 14 day ban. I feel like a support group would be a great step in the right direction.

That sounds super interesting, but I'm not sure it's within Riot's reach to implement such a large undertaking. Support groups such as this require a professional to guide and manage the group and its interactions. There are likely too many toxic players who receive punishment in any given day for it to be practical to do that. Maybe if Riot were able to implement an AI that could do it? But I'd be worried about trusting a social help group to the guidance of an AI, it could miss important details about the players' emotions and needs (like context clues from their discussions, and predicting how they are feeling or what they are thinking about).

Referring players to psychiatrists who run support groups in their area would definitely be within Riot's grasp if they wanted to try it though! And I think that would be a great step in the right direction.

Although a slap on the wrist is more often than not more than enough to cause a player to reform, there will always be the outliers that resist reform for whatever reasons. Having a program in place to help the the more stubborn guys can't hurt imo.

I'm envisioning something like a video series, explaining what makes people toxic, why they do it, and how to interact with them more effectively to avoid increasing their toxicity while still getting the cooperation we need from them (or at least protecting our own emotional stability while in-game with them).

Thanks for responding!

DrCyanide1 votes

I voted "I don't care", but my thoughts are more accurately "I don't know." Shoving a self help link in the face of someone struggling with something can push them away - self help is generally something that's best sought after rather than given out.

I personally think that a punishment between 14 day and permaban would be a good idea, because it would give those people who actually start trying when they get a 14 day ban a tiny bit of extra wiggle room to learn to improve.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

I voted "I don't care", but my thoughts are more accurately "I don't know." Shoving a self help link in the face of someone struggling with something can push them away - self help is generally something that's best sought after rather than given out.

You're right, but maybe as a last resort it would be a good option, short of permabanning the player and having them just come back with a new account to terrorize new players in the lower levels.

I personally think that a punishment between 14 day and permaban would be a good idea, because it would give those people who actually start trying when they get a 14 day ban a tiny bit of extra wiggle room to learn to improve.

I agree, there should be some sort of other step between 14-day and permanent bans. Some people just need time to mature, and temporary bans will actually do more to keep the player from playing league than a permanent ban would. If the player knows they are going to get their account back eventually, they may be less inclined to waste time and effort leveling up a new account to continue playing during their ban. Even just a month or two might be enough.

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