In your opinion, is this an offense

This Is Your Dad·May 4, 2017·10 votes·1,253 views

This is not a social justice warrior qq thread. Last game I had a jinx run smite ghost with courage of the colossus bot lane. He entered the RANKED game by saying "I'm drunk sorry guys, I've had like 5 beers and 4 (some kind of alcohol I don't remember)." Does this fall under playing under conditions not suitable for victory/not being prepared to win? There's not exactly a report category for it. As a reference our lux did awful and I never said anything about it, because he was trying but failing.

46 Comments

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20173 votes

Drinking and driving is against the law because it puts people lives at risk. Drinking and playing video games is a recommended activity to pursue while drinking because it is safe for everyone. If an adult wants to drink and play a video game I find it hard to justify a punishment. Now I agree you have the right to concern and to express yourself but not at the expense of my beer.

I play worse when I'm distracted by real life or on prescription medication (broke my finger awhile back and the pills made me loopy) than if I had a few beers (even "drunk"). The point is there are an infinite amount of unique circumstances that could affect ones performance in game and trying to police peoples personal life over a video game seems illogical.

Who's gonna determine how many beers is acceptable before a match? Who's gonna tell someone with a medical condition they can not play a video game if they take medication that affects their coordination or alertness? Who's gonna verify the difference between trolling and bluffing (people bluff that they are AFK or throwing all the time and really they are lurking in the bush with vision on you waiting for you to stop moving so they can lunge at you while you are typing)? If you want people to stop playing drunk how could you (or riot) possibly enforce it?

Chat logs don't dictate reality they are just things that are typed many times having nothing to do with the truth. Many times people are drunk and don't type about it or play like they are drunk for a variety or reasons when they are sober. Chat logs and replays are not good enough ways to judge if or how much someone drank and the problem you have seems more chat and trolling specific (someone typing things you didn't like, and an adc with tank masteries and smite) which could also be many other things. Who's gonna pay for everyone worldwide to get a breathalyzer (or more expensively a blood analysis) machine to hook up to your computer to play a free game (I imagine you would half to keep checking after each match as my blood alcohol level changes throughout the night) as so we can verify who's drunk, and who's using drunk as an excuse, and who's trolling using drunk as bait.

Only with answers to these many questions and more could even a framework for moving forward be constructed. Meanwhile there are more pressing issues facing riot staff with more approachable avenues to pursue them (like bringing back item sets or balancing new additions to the game.

Bonus question: what would the riot pop up message say once they magically decided you are to drunk to play?

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

Ranked is not normals. If you are drunk in normals I could give two teemos about you being drunk. Hell, one of the most fun games I ever played was with singed, voli, blitz, thresh and urgot, using the fling to tower mechanic.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20172 votes

The only differences between a ranked and a normal is how it is recorded and the access the public has to view it (and the pick/ban phase depending on if we talking blind or draft normal). Maybe leaver buster is turned up for ranked also maybe I forget and all the exact information is blurred by design to prevent scamming.

The only game mode I could see having a drinking restriction on is a silly game mode designed for drinking (like take a shot every time you die or lose a tower). Basically I could imagine a drinking mode for fun on the side that has nothing to do with the present chain of thought (and the only reason it would be on the side would be to have guidelines in place so no one gets alcohol poisoning).

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=1086186

Rammus would go straight to the hospital if he drank a shot every death.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

My point actually wasn't the regulation of drinking, and was posted when I was upset. It was supposed to be more about telling your team you're hammered and having a carefree attitude about your poor performance as a result. I feel like that information was not necessary and demoralized the team.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

telling your team you're hammered = acceptable

having a carefree attitude about your poor performance = unacceptable (depending on severity and frequency)

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

I still feel like it's a bit demoralizing to tell your team you're intoxicated in a ranked game.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

I know people who I wouldn't want to play with them sober because they are too high strung, I also know people I wouldn't play with even if they had only 1 beer. BUT I KNOW THEM PERSONALLY! On the internet assuming its not your premade group I assume you do not know them and its not entirely fair for you to be demoralized just because they are intoxicated.

Some people have a right to say they can fight good or even better drunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74OBuMA2qEk

"it gives him power" actual quote from movie. 1:27

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

Also as evidenced by my statement that I did not talk to lux about going 1/12 or whatever it was (pretty damn bad) because I felt like he just didn't have skill, but he wasn't laughing about losing. Now a regular person seeking to blame someone and report them for a defeat would have jumped on the lux, so I assure you at the time I was not concerned with the player's performance, but their demeanor. Edit: The lux evidently did better in the end and ended 6/8, but for a majority of the game was 1/8.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

If I had a 1-8 lux support it would be hard for me to have such a relaxed demeanor as the troll ADC. How would even a sober ADC with flash/ignite respond? laughing/raging/silence are the only 3 options I see others choose in my elo.

It's good conversation topic sorry to half to be on the other side of so many areas.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

Lux was mid.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

I stand corrected.

BridgeKeepMay 4, 20173 votes

I think that Pantheon Forever had a point in the drinking and driving debate, HOWEVER, I also believe that there is a reason we have a normals que and a ranked que. If someone takes those masteries and summoner spells into botlane and feeds, THEN that person is obviously trolling. In ranked, I believe this is reportable REGARDLESS of whether or not the player is innebriated. Thus, in your case, the offence is not the beer, but the gameplay which was an obvious troll, and should be reported. In conclusion, report for the masteries and sums offence; the beer is inconsequential.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20172 votes

See it's not the fact that they were drunk that bothers me. It's the fact that they said "oh shit I'm drunk and screwed up because of it, sorry guys" at the beginning of a game in a ranked setting. Just don't even bring it up. It's demoralizing to hear that your adc with ghost smite colossus is also drunk and laughing about it.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

I will also add that the jinx would ult and miss by a wide margin a stationary group of targets, and then say in chat "Did it hit them? Why not?"

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20174 votes

"Thus, in your case, the offence is not the beer, but the gameplay which was an obvious troll, and should be reported. In conclusion, report for the masteries and sums offence; the beer is inconsequential."

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20172 votes

I was going for more of mentioning you are drunk in chat being demoralizing and the summoner spells being that way a result of being intoxicated led me to believe they would have performed better had they been sober. But you are correct in many of your points, especially about the medical conditions and disabilities. The only thing I kind of have a gripe about is the drinking and having fun, because I believe normals and ranked should be separated in that regard. HOWEVER, I also believe that when people come on here asking for normals to be taken more seriously and how they want to win but keep getting off meta picks, I wholeheartedly disagree with them because normals do not really accrue a ranking status that others may judge you on. I am totally for nomals matches having katarina jungle or whatever.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20172 votes

He fed less than the Lux did, which is what I was using to validate that my stance wasn't "rage-related". We also won that game so it wasn't an "I lost so I'm blaming you for the loss" kind of thing either. It just pissed three of us off at the start of the game and caused a couple of my teammates to really bring out the negativity. Not Jinx's fault per se, but it was like setting up a fire hazard and then someone lit it on accident.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

Remember that the internet covers a wide range of cultures and ideals and what may seem weird to you may be normals to others and vise-versa.

Watch this and tell me you would tell either person they were to drunk to fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptHKdb5V6PQ NOT DRUNK ENOUGH!!!!!

Warlord ScrapMay 4, 20171 votes

See the problem with that is if were using laws to back the drunk while playing debate the consent for sex debate muddies it. One could argue that ssince he was drunk he wasnt in the right state of mind to decide he wanted to play rank therefore he did nothing wrong.

AeroWaffleMay 4, 20172 votes

Certainly a grey area.

If their inebriated self decides to make the poor decision of intentionally feeding, then they are still held responsible for it. But if they make poor tactical decisions because of their drunkenness then, although it's distasteful, I don't think it's likely to be punishable unless it's something that happens a lot.

The punishment for not playing at your best is increased chance to lose.

Although it's irresponsible of them, we can't start punishing people solely for drinking a lot before playing. That would be no different than punishing people for playing while doing anything else that decreases their performance.

BUT

One could also argue that their statement that they drank a lot before the game is admission that they knew that they were intentionally playing the game in a state that they'll be a deadweight.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

Yea, he didn't say buzzed. He said he was clearly incapacitated to the point of bringing smite ghost and colossus as adc.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

If I order a pizza and it arrives mid game I will play worse (miss more cs and look at my mini map less) eating my pizza than if I had a cold adult beverage by my side.

(hashtag)nopizzaorbeervideogamesafespace

Basically I respectfully disagree completely.

Real advice focus all your effort on what you know you still need to improve on and exploring what you might not know yet you need to improve on.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

So, I can play with smite ghost adc and run colossus and drink and feed every game. Seems legit. Edit: I did ask for an opinion, so after cooling off a second, I acknowledge your point. I will then defer to my other point, which is.... why tell me you're drunk beyond reason?

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

League is fundamentally designed around customization and choice. Many times people will have conflicting view or insight/knowledge that isn't understood by many. Simply doing something you don't understand should never be punished.

While we an look at this specific example and say that this situation seems to be an inappropriate choice, not all choices that seem odd are wrong.

If for some reason reworks and balance changes made something viable before it becomes meta everyone who's not adjusting shouldn't feel like they need to report someone for doing something different.

"So, I can play with smite ghost adc and run colossus and drink and feed every game. Seems legit."

If you were winning and you were not disrupting everyone's match yeah sure do it. If it does not work after a few attempts and you lose every match horribly AND players are disrupted that is when it moves into not being ok. Personally I like seeing people try new things it is what keeps the game fresh. While I agree this example is likely a player trolling or behaving inappropriately, do not think that this one example is justification to remove beer or any other distracting outside interference from video games entirely ( and the beer is not the problem I see).

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

So I think I may have come across completely wrong. I do not want to ban beer from video games. I wanted to know if actively flaunting your status as intoxicated to excuse you bringing smite and ghost as an adc in a ranked game, and then missing simple skillshots and performing terribly AFTER having said something like that would be a problem worth addressing. If he had not said he was drunk and acted like he was by missing a Jinx ult by a margin of 500 units or more on stationary targets and then asking ME if he hit them or why he didn't hit them I would have never had a team that was demoralized.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

missing simple skillshots and performing terribly (every game, almost every player in bronze, which is where i live)

intoxicated DOES NOT excuse you bringing smite and ghost as an adc in a ranked game (although a theory about invading or rushing dragon/rift/herald MIGHT be able to justify it)

(I think the player you dealt with was wrong but not because he was drinking but everything else he did that you associate with it)

(he very well may have been trying to rage bait people and been sober and mad about something you didn't realize)

If you didn't mention he was drinking and associate his behavior so strongly to it I would have agreed, up voted, and moved on, but because of the beer talk I'm conflicted and felt the need to explain why I was conflicted.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

The missing simple skillshots actually has nothing to do with it by itself. Only with the second part did I take offense. (asking me if he hit, and if not, why he didn't) seemed ridiculous.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

jinx has a global ult, this jinx was not in the LCS, because you were not specific idk if he ulted across the map towards you or if he was being ganked or pressured or otherwise busy while the rocket flew across the map. (maybe he shot it off screen and didn't know where it went, maybe he had a legitimate bug or glitch we do not know about, maybe he was just trolling) You paint a clear picture you think he was trolling and I am inclined to believe you but I do not have enough information to independently verify or deny it.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

He was somewhere in our jungle and I'm not sure what he was doing there, but asking me (I was topside) if it hit was kinda weird.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

"He was somewhere in our jungle and I'm not sure what he was doing there, but asking me (I was topside) if it hit was kinda weird."

I can agree with this statement but I do not believe someone should get punished for this.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

"Edit: I did ask for an opinion, so after cooling off a second, I acknowledge your point. I will then defer to my other point, which is.... why tell me you're drunk beyond reason?"

Could be just idle conversation someone sharing an interest looking for friends who are similar. Could be trolling. Should be taken on a case by case basis and with a grain of salt.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

I played an ARAM game last night with a guy that announced that he was drunk and it didn't bother me at all. It really amounted to ranked vs not ranked. That being said, if you're trying to win but losing it's okay.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

If I play ranked it is because I want to play in a game mode that is supposed to be taken serious so I can gauge how good or bad I am at the game. If I am a drinking it is because I want to relax and enjoy my adult beverage. Not all drunks are throwing games, not all sober players try hard. If I am a regular drinker and play enough normal matches there is a case to be made that at some point I will want to test myself in a more competitive atmosphere without compromising how I enjoy the game. If a player puts forth reasonable effort to win and acts respectful how drunk they "say" they feel becomes irrelivant to me. If it is problematic they will lose more.

I refer you to popular opinion about toxic players, if you are sober than 4/5 allies might be drunk and 5/5 enemies might be drunk. If you believe drinking is lowering a players win chance simply by not drinking you can climb in rank until there is a lower density of drunks.

The idea behind ranked is not to make everyone win all the time, it is to pit us against each other in combat. If you get an ally who plays bad or says something you do not agree with do not let it cloud why you are playing ranked and what you must do for yourself if you want to climb the ladder. Ranked is where we go to test are skills, it is not where we go to test our ideologies and impose them on others (whether or not you should drink in a ranked match seams like an ideological question). Hence at no point did I try and say you should drink even though I do.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

We still won though :P I'm not going to take your beer. They already tried that.

Leaf on BushMay 4, 20171 votes

Intentional feeding and bad attitude.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20172 votes

I mean, the person wasn't intentionally feeding and if anything they had a who cares/carefree attitude so I kind of felt it wasn't the right category and would have just been a rage report.

Pantheon ForeverMay 4, 20171 votes

It is possible to be bothered by something without anyone breaking any rules. If we can agree as a community we can adjust the rules and this is a reasonable place to start a discussion (although we would be on opposite sides of the discussion).

I would much rather see how this conversation would play out if not confined by board rules and extremely corrupt moderators who censor things that become too controversial.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

I've never really had anything of mine censored yet besides a slightly misunderstood comment that was poorly worded. I'm having a tough time with people on my teams feeding right now especially with the new changes (just had a 4/15 lux mid that didn't seem to concerned with winning). It's just a bad day for me to rank up. I get those sometimes. I'm not trying to regulate players' in-home behavior-that's ridiculous. I just want them to not mention things like that in chat.

Leaf on BushMay 4, 20171 votes

Why do you think a carefree attitude should be tolerated? It ruins games just as aggressive behaviour does and thus should be treated the same way. So negative attitude and inting it is. No need to be so forgiving.

Stars ShaperMay 4, 20171 votes

Yes, it is a reportable behavior.

He had plenty of other game mods to play if he wanted, but he choose to get drunk and play ranked. Willingly putting yourself in a condition where you have your senses and reactions are bleary and then go in a competitive match means you are willingly being a burden for your team mates.

LawUrDepravdHartMay 4, 20171 votes

This scenario is disturbing and I hope I never come across it in my games! However, I don't think it's a ban worthy offense (maybe a lesser punishment is appropriate), and I think my experience in the legal field can provide an analogous example.

In criminal court a felony conviction requires an element of "intent" to commit the crime. However, the law recognizes that even in very severe cases an extremely intoxicated individual is incapable of forming the intent to commit the crime. For example, if my blood alcohol content is 5X the legal limit and I shoot and kill someone then 1st degree murder is off the table because I didn't premeditate the murder and form the actual malice to kill that person. Instead, I would be charged with a lesser crime like 2nd degree murder or involuntary manslaughter because the level of intent required is much less strict. Having the intent to get intoxicated knowing that I could make bad decisions under the influence is not the same as having the intent to kill someone.

The point is that your courage of the colossus, ghost, jerk of an adc is guilty of something... Just not intentional feeding. Intentional feeding should receive a harsh punishment like a ban. He may have gotten drunk and made the decision to play knowing that its highly likely that he would feed... But that's not the same thing as intentionally feeding and it deserves a smaller punishment.

This Is Your DadMay 4, 20171 votes

He wasn't intentionally feeding. That was never really the issue.

Finn Teh HumanMay 5, 20171 votes

In Ranked? Fuck yes I think it's reportable and should be bannable. In Normals? No. This is why when I'm drunk I make sure my friends let me know I'm qu'd for norms.

Ranked is intense gameplay, normals are for being chill and relaxing. People drink to chill and relax, not to feel tense and think out every move.

CagniantMay 5, 20171 votes

For me it is an offense, giving me a AFK from the beggining of the game and forcing me play autolost game. And yeah i also cant even ask to report him, NAZI RIOT well done here.

This Is Your DadMay 5, 20171 votes

WE did end up winning that game. However, it was not easy.

AnomanderMay 5, 20171 votes

Being drunk does not excuse behavior.

Intentionally trying to lose is punishable. However off meta is allowed. Honestly it would have to be a manual review of the game to determine if it edged into intentionally trying to lose.

The messed up masteries could be from like a jungle Volibear set upwho uses ghost and COTC.

While I do not want to play with this player I CANNOT without witnessing the game say that it is punishable.

However a consistent behavioral trend of this would be punishable.