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Your ban =/= The banning of others

Çhåryzård··14 votes·1,403 views

I see this common idea on here that if you got banned during a match, everyone else who was toxic should be banned and them not getting banned is the system failing. They started it, they should be banned too.

This is not true.

Just because YOU are banned, does NOT mean the other people in game who were toxic must be banned for the system to be working.

You receive your ban after you have been reported enough times and have ignored the warnings. Everyone who is toxic is at different levels of reports.

I'm going to give an example. Let's say the number of reports you need for a ban is 10 (not sure the actual number, just made this one up). Before the game, you are at 9 reports, the adc is at 5. During game the enemy adc starts trash talking and then you start arguing with him. At the end up the game, you are banned, he is not. While he was also toxic, he did not reach his report limit yet and therefore does not get the same punishment as you. You have scored a 10/10, he has a 6/10. 4 more reports and he gets the ban hammer too, unless he decides to reform.

"But he started it!" Nobody cares. You decided to join in instead of staying quiet and reporting at the end. You are responsible for your own actions, nobody 'made' you start acting toxic. If he wanted to act like a jerk, that's on him, don't join in because then there are 2 people ruining the game and not just 1. Nobody likes attempting to play a 3v5 while the other 2 teammates are standing still in base raging over chat to each other.

"I got banned! He was just as toxic and didn't get punished! The system sucks!" No, like I explained before, everyone is at different levels of reports. You accumulated more toxic reports over time than the other person has, therefore, you receive your ban before them. If they decide to keep acting toxic, they too will receive a ban in the future.

"Well I was having a bad day! He was being a jerk and I couldn't help it!" Guess what? Thousands of people log on and play each day. Many of them have bad days. Many of them know how to control themselves and if they feel like they can't they do something about it. The mute feature is a great last resort if you think you are about to break. Everyone has bad days, I get that, I have never been punished for toxicity but even I have had a bad day once in a while, it just happens, but nobody has enough bad days that they eventually receive a ban because of it. You have to be consistently toxic to get a ban, and you receive warnings. Use the mute feature, and if you are really on edge, just take a break. Watch TV, go for a walk, bake some cookies, take your mind off the game because if you know you have a tendency to be toxic then don't put yourself at risk of being reported. Only you are in control of your behavior and how you act, if you know you will be toxic, do what you can to stop it.

You getting banned does not mean everyone else who was toxic to you in game deserves a ban. You just happened to reach your limit, they have not yet. In time, they will eventually get their punishment.

32 Comments

Zielmann4 votes

Good points here. I just want to add one more thing to the example, and that's the distinction of the different punishment tiers. For reference, they go like this:

  • 10-game chat restriction
  • 25-game chat restriction
  • 14-day ban
  • Permanent ban

So to carry the example along, maybe Player A just recently got off a 14-day ban, and just reached the threshold for another punishment. By the system, their next would be a Permaban. At the same time, maybe Player B also reached that threshold for a punishment, but they haven't been punished before. This means Player B would only get a 10-game chat restriction after that game.

Bottom line is don't look at severity of punishment received. The real question whenever a punishment is issued is "was the behavior deserving of punishment?". If yes, then the severity of the punishment is based on what tier the player is at.

Çhåryzård2 votes

{quoted}

Good points here. I just want to add one more thing to the example, and that's the distinction of the different punishment tiers. For reference, they go like this:

  • 10-game chat restriction
  • 25-game chat restriction
  • 14-day ban
  • Permanent ban

So to carry the example along, maybe Player A just recently got off a 14-day ban, and just reached the threshold for another punishment. By the system, their next would be a Permaban. At the same time, maybe Player B also reached that threshold for a punishment, but they haven't been punished before. This means Player B would only get a 10-game chat restriction after that game.

Bottom line is don't look at severity of punishment received. The real question whenever a punishment is issued is "was the behavior deserving of punishment?". If yes, then the severity of the punishment is based on what tier the player is at.

This is also true. I was just specifically talking bans here but yea there are other punishments aswell depending on the amount of reports and the severity of the toxicity, so if you get banned and the other person gets a chat restriction, they are still not deserving of the same punishment you are because they have not been toxic for as long.

It's just that so many people are like "well we were both toxic and I got banned therefore they are also deserving of a ban gg rito the system sucks'

The system doesn't suck, it is doing its job. You getting banned does not mean everyone else who was toxic that game deserves a ban. That isn't how the system works and if it did work like that it would actually be unfair.

Idk, i've been seeing this and I thought it was stupid so I just felt like sayin' something lol

StickyOctopi1 votes

I don't see why I can be banned for one blowout game out of thousands, literally skipped the chat restricts. But then I see pro players being more toxic than I ever was. Or even the nasus a few games ago who told me to die, that I was a %%%got, and that I need to kill myself. These are worse things than I've ever said in a game.

Yet this player remains unbanned.

Just seeing players be more toxic than I ever was, quantity wise as well, not get banned is pretty tilting.

Apparently "mumu has downs" and "ggez" are grounds to skip all levels of punishment and be permaed, but I guess everyone get's to tell me to kill myself without being banned. And if you're a pro you can say whatever. It's just a bs system.

Astôlfo2 votes

"mumu has downs" grounds to skip all levels of punishment and be permaed

Yeah, it is.

StickyOctopi1 votes

So what about "kill yourself %%%got" "Your father doesn't love you and if you were my kid I wouldn't either" "fucking hang yourself pussy" "you're garbage and need to die irl" ?

this shit isn't? But I see players say this all the time. How is "mumu has downs" worse than "I hope your family dies in a fire"?

How come every time these are said no one get's permabanned immediately?

Astôlfo3 votes

No, they're both permaban worthy.

Çhåryzård3 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why I can be banned for one blowout game out of thousands, literally skipped the chat restricts. But then I see pro players being more toxic than I ever was. Or even the nasus a few games ago who told me to die, that I was a %%%got, and that I need to kill myself. These are worse things than I've ever said in a game.

Yet this player remains unbanned.

Just seeing players be more toxic than I ever was, quantity wise as well, not get banned is pretty tilting.

Apparently "mumu has downs" and "ggez" are grounds to skip all levels of punishment and be permaed, but I guess everyone get's to tell me to kill myself without being banned. And if you're a pro you can say whatever. It's just a bs system.

I kinda doubt the only thing you said that was toxic was "mumu has downs" and "ggez"

StickyOctopi1 votes

It was, I think the game also picked up on me calling my 4 friends pussies and added to the list. The only things I said in all chat were that, and I was in a premade 5 bantering with my firends.

but I guess players can tell me to kill myself or use the n word as much as they'd like without being banned.

Last game I played, not even 20 minutes ago the enemy eve called us all %%%%%%s 20x. But apparently she get's to keep her account. Mumu has downs is permaban, but %%%%%%s 20 times in a game is okay!

riot supports racism but not shots at the enemies intelligence after they make a play and lose the game for their team!

Çhåryzård3 votes

{quoted}

It was, I think the game also picked up on me calling my 4 friends pussies and added to the list. The only things I said in all chat were that, and I was in a premade 5 bantering with my firends.

but I guess players can tell me to kill myself or use the n word as much as they'd like without being banned.

Last game I played, not even 20 minutes ago the enemy eve called us all %%%%%%s 20x. But apparently she get's to keep her account. Mumu has downs is permaban, but %%%%%%s 20 times in a game is okay!

riot supports racism but not shots at the enemies intelligence after they make a play and lose the game for their team!

I also really doubt this was anywhere near your first offense. Something isn't adding up here.

I've seen people get banned for racism and hate speech, that right there disproves the "riot supports racism". Also saying someone has downs isn't just a shot at "intelligence". Calling someone stupid is a shot at intelligence, telling someone they have downs is just you being a straight up ass.

Once again, I seriously doubt the only thing you said was "mumu has downs". You were either banned for something worse of you accumulated enough reports over time.

Linthe2 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why I can be banned for one blowout game out of thousands, literally skipped the chat restricts.

In general, this does not happens.. unless that one blowout game was HELLA blow out... (full of homophobic slurs, death threats etc).

MrDeLeonBoy1 votes

so what if someone feeds on purpose and our team bans him.not he enemy team? can we ensure his ban somway with just that? a video perhaps? item 3147

Çhåryzård1 votes

{quoted}

so what if someone feeds on purpose and our team bans him.not he enemy team? can we ensure his ban somway with just that? a video perhaps? item 3147

No, you can't, it won't matter. Feeding intentionally is report worthy but not ban worthy in a single offense. If they continuously do it, they will receive warnings that their behavior is toxic. If they choose to continue, they will recieve chat restrictions as a punishment. Failing to reform after that will get them suspensions and eventually a ban, however the ban will come sooner depending on if they are toxic in chat too or not.

1 game is not ban worthy unless they are extreme, like using hate speech and acting racist. Also, 1 report per game is counted. If you get reported in a game, that game is a reported game. You don't stack up on single reports, more along the lines of how many games you were reported in. All it takes is 1 report per game to add to your list of increasing reports.

If someone is extremely toxic, like being racist and wishing death upon others, report. I believe you could also get screenshots and send in a ticket about them if they were that horrible, and a Rioter will review it themselves and dish out the punishment. However if it is just average trash talking, they'll just say "report them".

Reket DeAlk1 votes

{quoted}

No, you can't, it won't matter. Feeding intentionally is report worthy but not ban worthy in a single offense. If they continuously do it, they will receive warnings that their behavior is toxic. If they choose to continue, they will recieve chat restrictions as a punishment.

Actually, I think the system skips chat restrictions if they're caught trolling/intentionally feeding. I could be wrong on that but pretty sure it was confirmed.

Çhåryzård1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reket DeAlk,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeuLLOJV,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-05-21T05:55:00.659+0000)

Actually, I think the system skips chat restrictions if they're caught trolling/intentionally feeding. I could be wrong on that but pretty sure it was confirmed.

I'm not sure about the trolling, I've seen lots of trolls and I've reported and never got the "this person has been punished" message. Intentional feeding I can't say, I don't see it much tbh.

Also if you report for intentional feeding, how does the system know the difference between it being intentional and a person just having a bad game? Like say the adc feeds a lot but really is trying, and a salty team member decides to report for intentional feeding. Like how does the system know that the adc isn't toxic and was actually trying during the game, but just ended up not doing well?

Reket DeAlk1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure about the trolling, I've seen lots of trolls and I've reported and never got the "this person has been punished" message. Intentional feeding I can't say, I don't see it much tbh.

Also if you report for intentional feeding, how does the system know the difference between it being intentional and a person just having a bad game? Like say the adc feeds a lot but really is trying, and a salty team member decides to report for intentional feeding. Like how does the system know that the adc isn't toxic and was actually trying during the game, but just ended up not doing well?

Well you only get the message if it was your report that triggered the ban. I've only seen it twice. It doesn't happen too often unless you get lucky.

As for feeding, I don't know the specifics but I think it looks for patterns. That's why it takes longer to catch int. feeders cause they need a big enough sample size to determine if it's just a string of bad games or not. Again, it might work differently then that. That's just my guess/understanding of it.

Çhåryzård1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reket DeAlk,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeuLLOJV,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-21T16:12:58.976+0000)

Well you only get the message if it was your report that triggered the ban. I've only seen it twice. It doesn't happen too often unless you get lucky.

As for feeding, I don't know the specifics but I think it looks for patterns. That's why it takes longer to catch int. feeders cause they need a big enough sample size to determine if it's just a string of bad games or not. Again, it might work differently then that. That's just my guess/understanding of it.

Yea but if trolling and such was an instant perma, and you reported them for it, then your report would be the one to get them banned since the punishment is an instant perma.

Also that would probably be better, or else people would be getting bans for having bad games because salty people reported them. I would hope that the system takes the time to analyze it before being like "BANNNNNN" XD

Reket DeAlk1 votes

{quoted}

Yea but if trolling and such was an instant perma, and you reported them for it, then your report would be the one to get them banned since the punishment is an instant perma.

Also that would probably be better, or else people would be getting bans for having bad games because salty people reported them. I would hope that the system takes the time to analyze it before being like "BANNNNNN" XD

What I meant was if the game that you reported them for trolling was the game that triggered the review then yes you would get the notice. But if it wasn't until say two games later they got caught and banned, you wouldn't get the notice. Sorry if that wasn't 100% clear.

I don't think I've actually seen anyone being banned for actual bad games, so I guess that's pretty close to how it works haha. But that's why I think so many people get mad about trolls and feeders not getting banned. With chat, it's obvious. You look at the chat, you can see if it is or isn't bad enough, and you ban/pardon. With trolling, you need to look at a much larger batch of games to get a clear answer.

I had someone like that the other day in one of my ranked games. Got the notice that they were banned later that day. So the system does catch feeders and trolls. Just not as quickly as toxic chat.

barbarianskull1 votes

So... Toxic people don't get banned?

Çhåryzård2 votes

{quoted}

So... Toxic people don't get banned?

...No? That wasn't what I said at all?

I said if you were banned in a game for being toxic, the other toxic people in game will not receive the same punishment as you and that isn't the system 'not working'.

You could get banned in a game for toxicity, but the other guy might not have collected as many reports as you over time, meaning he will either receive or his heading towards a different punishment. Some people think that because they were banned, everyone else is deserving of the same ban if they were toxic, and that is not true.

Lets say 2 guys steal from a store. The first guy has been stealing for a month and has done it multiple times, and it is the second guy's first theft. Both are going to be in trouble, but the first guy will receive a harsher jail sentence than the second guy since he has robbed more stores and has done it longer than the second guy, who has only done it once.

GRVet3ran0sS1 votes

I got banned for no reason.

Çhåryzård2 votes

{quoted}

I got banned for no reason.

That doesn't happen

GRVet3ran0sS1 votes

It does.

Çhåryzård1 votes

{quoted}

It does.

...No..it doesn't...Everyone here knows it doesn't. Unless it was a glitch, which is extremely unlikely, you got banned for toxicity. You don't just get banned right off the bat, unless you said something incredibly horrible, in which case yea, you're gone. I believe intentional feeding gets you banned too.

GRVet3ran0sS1 votes

It was a glitch

Eyyy its Sogole1 votes

Extremely unlikely > 0% That doesn't happen = 0%

Pick one. Either riot has millions of players and bans and gets it right every single time Or they missed even 1 person do to a flaw/bug/screw up.

Çhåryzård1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eyyy its Sogole,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeuLLOJV,comment-id=00040000000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-30T22:59:35.599+0000)

That doesn't happen = 0%

Pick one. Either riot has millions of players and bans and gets it right every single time Or they missed even 1 person do to a flaw/bug/screw up.

They said they got banned for no reason. I said that ins't possible, there is always a reason, and that is true.

Glitching is also a reason, however, the chances of a glitch happening are very very VERY low. The system looks at the chat logs and is able to recognize certain words consistent with toxicity. If someone falsely reports you for harassment, and the system finds no evidence of harassment, you will not be punished.

Also, I'm pretty sure a Rioter bans you themselves, not the system. A person would have to look at your past offenses and the punishments you've had already and then they decide whether or not it is time for you to be banned. Depending on the level of toxicity and what you've done, you may even skip punishments and go straight to the ban.

Unless by some act of God the system decided to take matters into its own hands and ban you, or the Rioter opened your profile for no reason and accidentally went through the process of banning you, it was most likely not a glitch and something you brought on yourself.

Also, just looked through this players forum history, they are not the nicest person they can be. I'm leaning more towards ban from toxicity.

Eyyy its Sogole1 votes

It was a glitch

Was probably his reason.

You are right on the perma ban thing. A rioter Always looks at an account before a perma ban. But there are casses of people getting an unjustified ban.

The thing is people will look at those unjustified bans put riot in a bad light. Riot may have a good track reccord for justified bans 99% + But people are going to point at that 1 % OR going to point at people who are more toxic and aren't banned.

Wich probably the point of your post. People are always going to look for excuses or scapegoats. We need to face the bans people are not going to get banned from most toxic to least toxic.

Here's to hoping the community reforms.

Çhåryzård1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eyyy its Sogole,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MeuLLOJV,comment-id=0004000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-31T09:39:31.215+0000)

Was probably his reason.

You are right on the perma ban thing. A rioter Always looks at an account before a perma ban. But there are casses of people getting an unjustified ban.

The thing is people will look at those unjustified bans put riot in a bad light. Riot may have a good track reccord for justified bans 99% + But people are going to point at that 1 % OR going to point at people who are more toxic and aren't banned.

Wich probably the point of your post. People are always going to look for excuses or scapegoats. We need to face the bans people are not going to get banned from most toxic to least toxic.

Here's to hoping the community reforms.

Still, an unjustifiable ban isn't a glitch, more of bad judgement on the Rioter in question's part.

I've never been punished so I don't know, but are you able to get into contact with Riot to discuss your ban? Like including your logs and stuff being like "Hey I understand what I did/said was wrong, but was it so bad that I deserved to be banned right on the spot"

If you've been punished before and received warnings before getting your ban, there isn't much you can say, but if you skipped all other punishments and what you did in game honestly wasn't deserving of an insta ban, is there a way you can contact them?

I do believe Riot is pretty spot on with their bans but for the 1% there should be a way they can ask Riot about it

Linthe1 votes

{quoted} he has a 6/10. 4 more reports and he gets the ban hammer too, unless he decides to reform.

I agree with most of what you said.. The problem is right here.. "We" never see this ban hammer come down.. As far as we know, it never happens. This type of transparency is what the Tribunal used to add.

Çhåryzård2 votes

{quoted}

I agree with most of what you said.. The problem is right here.. "We" never see this ban hammer come down.. As far as we know, it never happens. This type of transparency is what the Tribunal used to add.

That's why they've started adding the punishment messages

Just the other day I got a message saying my report was the one that got the player noticed by the Tribunal, and then the reports after mine led to their punishment.

I've also gotten messages saying my report was the one to get the person banned

However I think these messages should come up more often. Like if my report assisted in general with the punishment of a player

Linthe1 votes

{quoted}

However I think these messages should come up more often. Like if my report assisted in general with the punishment of a player

Definitely agreeing.... +1

Çhåryzård1 votes

{quoted}

Definitely agreeing.... +1

I believe the system is doing its job, but since you only get the messages for certain things sometimes it leaves you wondering if you actually made a difference.

Idk, I think if it were to send messages for more things, just to update you on the person you reported, people would realize more that their reports do make a difference eventually. The system doesn't tell you all the time though

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